Guest viewing limit reached
  • You have reached the maximum number of guest views allowed
  • Please register below to remove this limitation

The #1 Cortisol Blocker

neoborn said:
So so far we've seen:

1. Squabling like children with no real resolution (unlikely either)

2. Alias usernames coming in and backing up each camp

3. No real resolution

So how about we close this POS thread down and leave it at that. Way to go guys. The whole E-penis thing gets a little old. There are good and bad to both product lines.

Suck it up and move on ladies. I definitely think a one question - one answer format would be wise. If you can't answer then GTFO!

P.S grant remove your nose from DS k?
Click to expand...
Not to play devils advocate... but if you see back and forth with DS, its because someone has stated something about his product. He never steps in to someone elses business until they make it his. So I believe his defense is warrented, and he presented science accordingly.

All in all only knowledge can ensue.

Adams
 
neoborn said:
So so far we've seen:

1. Squabling like children with no real resolution (unlikely either)
The whole E-penis thing gets a little old.

P.S grant remove your nose from DS k?
Click to expand...

Are you f*cking kidding me?!

I back up quite a few companies here, especially ones that I like, as do many other people on the boards.

You go through your whole tirade about people being babies, then you single me out for backing up DS.


IBE just lost a customer due to your post.

How do you like that?
 
And Neo, and Grant, back off each other.

There is no reason to attack each other. Grant is backing someone he believes in. It happens non stop around here, and with good resolve.

Adams
 
Primordial Perf said:
A pet peeve of mine is guy who thinks he has some great unconventional wisdom, when he really doesn’t.

HPTA – Hypothalamus Pituitary Testicular Axis

Invalid Link Removed

Duirnal can be referred to as a Diurnal event that occurs once every 24hrs

Or

Something that happens during the day. (ie daytime cortisol levels, as opposed to nocturnal levels)

Invalid Link Removed

-Pp
Click to expand...

HPTA has been used as you stated, however, it creates confusion with the hypothalamic pituitary thyroid axis which is why most people in the field refer to them as the HPGA and the HPTA.

As far as Diurnal is concerned, since most scientists, doctors, etc are concerned with the diurnal variations in hormone production, they are referring to the changes throughout an entire 24 hours, not just during the day. just because you can find a definition that refers to zoology or some other discipline or a common use of a word doesn't mean that is how it is used by people in a specific field.
 
want to hear more feedback from people that have tried endoamp

PS has been around for a long time, never used it before cuz it was too expensive but would try it now if i hear some feedback from users.

that would be more relevant to this thread.
 
sethroberts said:
HPTA has been used as you stated, however, it creates confusion with the hypothalamic pituitary thyroid axis which is why most people in the field refer to them as the HPGA and the HPTA.

As far as Diurnal is concerned, since most scientists, doctors, etc are concerned with the diurnal variations in hormone production, they are referring to the changes throughout an entire 24 hours, not just during the day. just because you can find a definition that refers to zoology or some other discipline or a common use of a word doesn't mean that is how it is used by people in a specific field.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I agree to disagree.

Comacho,

Sounds good bro.

-Pp
 
comacho said:
want to hear more feedback from people that have tried endoamp

PS has been around for a long time, never used it before cuz it was too expensive but would try it now if i hear some feedback from users.

that would be more relevant to this thread.
Click to expand...
i too have seen PS in health stores for awhile now, been interested too but the price discouraged me from trying something i didn't know much about. i like lean extreme a lot and will continue using, but ps sounds like something i might add to it or cycle around use of lean extreme. btw i have never used PS before but i can tell you from personal experience that lean extreme is a very good product.
 
DAdams91982 said:
Come on now... I think you should be dubbed 'get smart' now... you didnt even pick up on my BAD pun. B, Jay... BJ? For shame BigT, for shame! :D

Adams
Click to expand...
you got me on that one, i blame it on old age. good to see your witty repatoire back in action again.
 
I picked up on the BJ thing. :D

The page you requested has been blocked because it contains a banned word. URL = Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...
I cannot read some pages of this thread at work because of the security settings on my PC.

Rest assured that if I come in here and I find out that the shinanigans has continued after you guys received a "BJ warning"...your mothers won't recognize you when I get done with you. ;)

"Just wait 'til your father gets home" :hammer:

Serioulsy, I hope not to find that it has, as I will be very disappointed...at the least. This goes to ALL members, sponsor alike.

Thanks.
 
B5150 said:
I picked up on the BJ thing. :D

I cannot read some pages of this thread at work because of the security settings on my PC.

Rest assured that if I come in here and I find out that the shinanigans has continued after you guys received a "BJ warning"...your mothers won't recognize you when I get done with you. ;)

"Just wait 'til your father gets home" :hammer:

Serioulsy, I hope not to find that it has, as I will be very disappointed...at the least. This goes to ALL members, sponsor alike.

Thanks.
Click to expand...


BJ Warning. That should be a new button.... take away the "Report Post" button! :D

Adams
 
I have used Endo for those who actually want some feedback

I actually used pf's test recovery as pct that included the endo-amp, toco-8, and sustain alpha

It was a great lineup as far as I am concerned. My hair loss that started during the end of the cycle stopped dead in it's tracks during pct, Libido went through the roof, balls were bigger then when I started my cycle.

I know it might be all mumbo jumbo, but I felt a real sense of well being. No mood swings, deep restfull sleep, just calm in general.

the start of my cycle I was 201lbs, by the end I was 219lbs, and a full month after I am sitting pretty at 218lbs, and fairly lean.

The only complaint was the mixability, I just put it in my mouth and chased it down with water.
 
I've used endoamp. Liked it, even the taste didn't bother me, was a smooth texture. I just scooped it right into my mouth just like with toco-8.

It's probably something I will incorporate into a longterm stack with toco-8.

I might try it this summer again alongside dermatherm and then incorporate it for longterm use. It's one of those supps that's safe to use as a staple, and in this sense it's in a different league than other cort supps which are hormonal and not safe to use lfor extended periods (or as staple supps). They each have their place.
 
Gutterpump said:
I've used endoamp. Liked it, even the taste didn't bother me, was a smooth texture. I just scooped it right into my mouth just like with toco-8.

It's probably something I will incorporate into a longterm stack with toco-8.

I might try it this summer again alongside dermatherm and then incorporate it for longterm use. It's one of those supps that's safe to use as a staple, and in this sense it's in a different league than other cort supps which are hormonal and not safe to use lfor extended periods (or as staple supps). They each have their place.
Click to expand...
:goodpost:this is a very reasonable approach. i might try a month or 2 on lean extreme and then a month on PS.
 
DAdams91982 said:
Not to play devils advocate... but if you see back and forth with DS, its because someone has stated something about his product. He never steps in to someone elses business until they make it his. So I believe his defense is warrented, and he presented science accordingly.

All in all only knowledge can ensue.

Adams
Click to expand...

+Rep

I look forward to the end of childish ranting and very much the resolution and agreement on the subject. I am sure we can get there with two quality company leaders in the industry!:woohoo:

Forgive my tone but this kind of back n forth with no end in sight P!sses me off:frustrate
 
comacho... i logged the the cycle

Invalid Link Removed

Should have a final write up in the next few days. but that will show you what the cycle was
 
Primordial Perf said:
AM members,

Cortisol can catabolize muscle and testicular tissue leading to smaller muscles and lower testosterone levels. That’s why it’s desirable to suppress, or at least control cortisol levels. The most important time to guard you body against the effects of cortisol is during PCT when Testosterone levels are low, and cortisol can easily dominate and wreck havoc on the body. (Testosterone is a primary antagonist of cortisol)

Many cortisol blocking supplements on the market include one of the many DHEA metabolites such as 7-keto DHEA (7-oxo DHEA), 7-beta DHEA or androstenetriol. Short term studies have shown that these pro-hormone based cortisol blockers can lower LH & FSH thus inhibiting natural testosterone production. (1,2) While these may be useful supplements during a cycle, they should be avoided for PCT.

Phosphatidylserine (PS) is a ‘non-hormonal’ cortisol blocker that can effectively lower cortisol levels. Rather than lowering testosterone production, PS can actually increase testosterone production. (3,4) PS works by reducing CRH and ACTH release from the pituitary, thus reducing cortisol release from the adrenal glands.

Unfortunately PS has been prohibitively expensive, until now. In order to bring you the most affordable PS on the net, we are offering a month’s supply of PS (800mg/day) for only 47.99 – AKA EndoAmp.

Plus…

- Take an additional 10% off with the code SPONSOR10!

And…

- Get free 2-3 day priority shipping when you spend over $100!

Thank you loyal Primordial fans!

-Pp

Invalid Link Removed

1. Effects of Transdermal Application of 7-oxo-DHEA on the Levels of Steroid Hormones, Gonadotropins and Lipids in Healthy Men.
J Sulcova, et al.
Institute of Endocrinology 50: 9-18, 2001

2. Delayed effects of short-term transdermal application of 7-oxo-dehydroepiandrosterone on its metabolites, some hormonal steroids and relevant proteohormones in healthy male volunteers
Jarmila Sulcova, et al.
Institute of Endoacrinology 43 (2):221-227 2005

3. HORMONAL EFFECTS OF PHOSPHATIDYLSERINE DURING 2-WKS OF INTENSE WEIGHT TRAINING [Annual Meeting Abstracts]
Fahey, T. D.; Pearl, M.
California State University, Chico


4. Blunting by chronic phosphatidylserine administration of the stress-induced activation of the hypothalamo-pituitary-adrenal axis in healthy men.
Monteleone et al.
Eur J Clin Pharmacol 1992, 42(4):385-388
Click to expand...

i would love to see that study on 7 keto

Safety and pharmacokinetic study with escalating doses of 3-acetyl-7-oxo-dehydroepiandrosterone in healthy male volunteers.

OBJECTIVES: To evaluate the safety and pharmacokinetics of 3-acetyl-7-oxo-DHEA (3beta-acetoxyandrost-5-ene-7,17-dione) given orally. DESIGN: A randomized, double blind, placebo-controlled, escalating dose study. SETTING: The Chicago Center for Clinical Research. PARTICIPANTS: Twenty-two healthy men. STUDY METHOD: The participants received placebo (n = 6) or 3-acetyl-7-oxo-DHEA (n = 16) at 50 mg/d for 7 days followed by a 7-day washout; 100 mg/d for 7 days followed by a 7-day washout; and 200 mg/d for 28 days. OUTCOME MEASURES: Safety parameters, evaluated at each dose level, included measurement of total testosterone, free testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, estradiol, cortisol, thyroxin and insulin levels. Analyses for 7-oxo-DHEA-3beta-sulfate (DHEA-S), the only detectable metabolic product of the administered steroid, were conducted on plasma drawn from all subjects at 0.25, 0.5, 1, 2, 4, 6 and 12 hours after the final 100 mg dose of 3beta-acetyl-7-oxo-DHEA. RESULTS: There were no differences in the clinical laboratory values or in reported minor adverse experiences, between treatment and placebo groups. In general, blood hormone concentrations were unaffected by the treatment with 3beta-acetyl-7-oxo-DHEA and remained within the normal range. No changes in vital signs, blood chemistry or urinalysis occurred during treatment with 3beta-acetyl-7-oxo-DHEA compared to placebo. The administered steroid was not detected in the blood but was rapidly converted to 7-oxo-DHEA-S, the concentrations of which were proportional to dose. This steroid sulfate did not accumulate; plasma concentrations 12 hours after the 3beta-acetyl-7-oxo-DHEA dose at 7 and 28 days on the 200 mg/d dose were 15.8 and 16.3 microg/L respectively. The mean time to peak plasma level of 7-oxo-DHEA-S was 2.2 hours; the mean half life was 2.17 hours. The apparent clearance averaged 172 L/h, and the apparent mean volume of distribution was 540 L. CONCLUSION: These results indicate that 3beta-acetyl-7-oxo-DHEA is safe and well tolerated in normal healthy men at doses up to 200 mg/d for 4 weeks.
 
Just so you guys know EndoAmp is now coming in a different container. We should have some new pics up on the site very soon.
 
strategicmove said:
1) What is the concentration of PS is in the powder? 10%? 20%? More than 20%?
2) Any reason you do not emphasize PS, or even phospholipids in general, as a potent cognitive agent? PS, as you know, is a key building block in the brain. Low PS levels can lead to cognitive decline. PS supports supports brain utilization of fuel, supports the production of the neurotransmitter acetylcholine, and optimizes glucose metabolism, cumulatively leading to cognitive enhancement. This aspect may be important because high cortisol levels can also lead to cognitive decline.
Click to expand...


Wouldn't more acetylcholine be bad for GH production?
 
eat a lot a fatty fish (salmon) or take fish oil capsules...they contain phospholipids our body uses to produce phosphadyldserine all by itself..to the level we need..depending on the stress we apply...as it should be.....cortisol is also benficial and necessary and you dont want it lower in some ways ..while intense exercise will temporarily raise cortisol ..if the above nutrient are avail the body will have enough ps on its own and the levels will quickly return to normal. Good diet plus inexpensive (but quality) fish oil caps ..or soemthing that sabotages a beneficial hormone(see below) i know my choice. ...JMO....

BTW - this is what cortisol does...some pretty good benefits for our purposes..the body regulates itself perfectly without screwing with its benficial hormones....

Cortisol is very important for keeping humans alive. Cortisol is responsible for maintaining our ability to process sugars, maintain our blood pressure and react to stress and illness. Cortisol helps the body respond to stress. During times of stress, cortisol levels
increase and accelerate the breakdown of proteins to provide the fuel to maintain body functions. It acts as a physiological antagonist to insulin by promoting breakdown of carbohydrates, lipids, and proteins and so mobilizing energy reserves. In addition, immune and inflammatory cells have their responses to stress attenuated by cortisol. Cortisol is known to stimulate gluconeogenesis (creation of glucose) to ensure an adequate fuel supply. It also makes fatty acids available for metabolic use. It increases mobilization of free fatty acids, making them a more available energy source, and decreases glucose utilization, sparing it for the brain. Cortisol also acts as an anti-inflamatory agent. It depresses immune reactions, and increases the vasoconstriction caused by epinephrine.

BTW - if you read the above carefully most of the benfits of cortisol are essetail for our purposes...essential... the body will easily keep cortisol below catabolic levels regardless of stress applied as long as the nutrient i talked about above are present.

This is just my opinion on this phospholipid (PS)
 
I must say Primordial Performance is making some serious heads turn with the innovation they are bringing to the supplement world. Thumbs up guys.:thumbsup:
 
steveironman said:
eat a lot a fatty fish (salmon) or take fish oil capsules...they contain phospholipids our body uses to produce phosphadyldserine all by itself..to the level we need..depending on the stress we apply...as it should be.....cortisol is also benficial and necessary and you dont want it lower in some ways ..while intense exercise will temporarily raise cortisol ..if the above nutrient are avail the body will have enough ps on its own and the levels will quickly return to normal. Good diet plus inexpensive (but quality) fish oil caps ..or soemthing that sabotages a beneficial hormone(see below) i know my choice. ...JMO....

BTW - this is what cortisol does...some pretty good benefits for our purposes..the body regulates itself perfectly without screwing with its benficial hormones....

Cortisol is very important for keeping humans alive. Cortisol is responsible for maintaining our ability to process sugars, maintain our blood pressure and react to stress and illness. Cortisol helps the body respond to stress. During times of stress, cortisol levels
increase and accelerate the breakdown of proteins to provide the fuel to maintain body functions. It acts as a physiological antagonist to insulin by promoting breakdown of carbohydrates, lipids, and proteins and so mobilizing energy reserves. In addition, immune and inflammatory cells have their responses to stress attenuated by cortisol. Cortisol is known to stimulate gluconeogenesis (creation of glucose) to ensure an adequate fuel supply. It also makes fatty acids available for metabolic use. It increases mobilization of free fatty acids, making them a more available energy source, and decreases glucose utilization, sparing it for the brain. Cortisol also acts as an anti-inflamatory agent. It depresses immune reactions, and increases the vasoconstriction caused by epinephrine.

BTW - if you read the above carefully most of the benfits of cortisol are essetail for our purposes...essential... the body will easily keep cortisol below catabolic levels regardless of stress applied as long as the nutrient i talked about above are present.

This is just my opinion on this phospholipid (PS)
Click to expand...


why cant i edit ? i wanna add info to this does it have to be below it? like this?
anyway i wanted to put in that fish oils also have many other benfeits that make then a great supp beside just re: cortisol.. tahts it :-)
 
Bill Roberts take on cortisol :

"Contrary to the other claims, there is no evidence, nor good reason to believe, that reducing cortisol below normal would be of benefit to the weight training athlete, and considerable evidence that it is a bad idea. "
 
could be true re the supp company ...but why on earth given the info i posted above regarding cortisol would you want to buy a supplement that claims to suppress it??? thats the on topic question/discussion/comment ..not how much you like/work for the supplement manufacturer...... thats meaningless in this specific thread.....
 
steveironman said:
Bill Roberts take on cortisol :

"Contrary to the other claims, there is no evidence, nor good reason to believe, that reducing cortisol below normal would be of benefit to the weight training athlete, and considerable evidence that it is a bad idea. "
Click to expand...

Short temporary bursts in cortisol release can be desirable, but high sustained cortisol release leads to adrenal fatigue and is not desirable for anyone… this is the response you get when you are undernourished and your body needs to break itself down to get the nutrients it needs.

PS is one of these essential nutrients, along with protein…. and common sense tells us that consuming these things is good.

-Eric
 
steveironman said:
Bill Roberts take on cortisol :

"Contrary to the other claims, there is no evidence, nor good reason to believe, that reducing cortisol below normal would be of benefit to the weight training athlete, and considerable evidence that it is a bad idea. "
Click to expand...

It appears you have not read the write up on this product, nor understand how what you just quoted is relavant to EndoAMP. This product is not designed to unnaturally lower cortisol below normal levels.

Your argument is null in this case and your crass nature in this and most other posts of yours I've read comes off smoldering of close minded arrogance. You show repeatedly you have your mind already made up concerning the points of the very questions you ask. You seem to be just stiring up contention as no answer it would seem will be sufficient to sate you.

We use this forum for learning, sharing of experiences and feedback as well as support of one another. Questions are a welcome and important part of this. I just suggest not taking such an attack like attitude towards everything and think about answers given instead of just discarding and discounting them before you can get your mind arround them next time.
 
saludable24 said:
It appears you have not read the write up on this product, nor understand how what you just quoted is relavant to EndoAMP. This product is not designed to unnaturally lower cortisol below normal levels.

Your argument is null in this case and your crass nature in this and most other posts of yours I've read comes off smoldering of close minded arrogance. You show repeatedly you have your mind already made up concerning the points of the very questions you ask. You seem to be just stiring up contention as no answer it would seem will be sufficient to sate you.

We use this forum for learning, sharing of experiences and feedback as well as support of one another. Questions are a welcome and important part of this. I just suggest not taking such an attack like attitude towards everything and think about answers given instead of just discarding and discounting them before you can get your mind arround them next time.
Click to expand...


lets stick to the post at hand if we can. My point is illustrated below. Supplementation for cortisol control imo is not necessary ...when we ingest proper nutrients our body produces it (PS) effectively enough on its own to handle raises in cortisol which in most cases isn't all that bad anyway... Thats just my opinon and you sure got very defensive for no reason in this case. This is an unecessary supplement and i challenge anyone to say they build more muscle by taking ps for cortisol control. Hell cytadren controls cortisol and pro bodybuilder dont even bother with it anymore beacuse it didnt do a darn thing. Thats just my opinion ...sorry if you dont like it.

eat a lot a fatty fish (salmon) or take fish oil capsules...they contain phospholipids our body uses to produce phosphadyldserine all by itself..to the level we need..depending on the stress we apply...as it should be.....cortisol is also benficial and necessary and you dont want it lower in some ways ..while intense exercise will temporarily raise cortisol ..if the above nutrient are avail the body will have enough ps on its own and the levels will quickly return to normal. Good diet plus inexpensive (but quality) fish oil caps ..or soemthing that sabotages a beneficial hormone(see below) i know my choice. ...JMO....

BTW - this is what cortisol does...some pretty good benefits for our purposes..the body regulates itself perfectly without screwing with its benficial hormones....

Cortisol is very important for keeping humans alive. Cortisol is responsible for maintaining our ability to process sugars, maintain our blood pressure and react to stress and illness. Cortisol helps the body respond to stress. During times of stress, cortisol levels
increase and accelerate the breakdown of proteins to provide the fuel to maintain body functions. It acts as a physiological antagonist to insulin by promoting breakdown of carbohydrates, lipids, and proteins and so mobilizing energy reserves. In addition, immune and inflammatory cells have their responses to stress attenuated by cortisol. Cortisol is known to stimulate gluconeogenesis (creation of glucose) to ensure an adequate fuel supply. It also makes fatty acids available for metabolic use. It increases mobilization of free fatty acids, making them a more available energy source, and decreases glucose utilization, sparing it for the brain. Cortisol also acts as an anti-inflamatory agent. It depresses immune reactions, and increases the vasoconstriction caused by epinephrine.

Oh and btw normal levels of this hormone would be the levels the body produces relative to the circumstances so i believe then this product would, if it does what claimed ,drop cortisol below normal levels. The point is really meaninless but since you brought it up. The above explains perfectly why supplementation with this supplement is unnecessary.
 
Primordial Perf said:
Short temporary bursts in cortisol release can be desirable, but high sustained cortisol release leads to adrenal fatigue and is not desirable for anyone… this is the response you get when you are undernourished and your body needs to break itself down to get the nutrients it needs.

PS is one of these essential nutrients, along with protein…. and common sense tells us that consuming these things is good.

-Eric
Click to expand...


so to control cortisol properly we need to eat correctly and to be extra careful supplement with heathy fish oil which contains precursors our body uses to produce its own PS . The fish oil will also offer added benefits and our body will control cortisol perfectly on its own. Thats my point and just my opinion.
 
steveironman said:
so to control cortisol properly we need to eat correctly and to be extra careful supplement with heathy fish oil which contains precursors our body uses to produce its own PS . The fish oil will also offer added benefits and our body will control cortisol perfectly on its own. Thats my point and just my opinion.
Click to expand...

Some people dont have the time or means to perfectly compensate everytime. It seems that this is like saying, we dont need to supplement whey/protein because we can get all the protein we need from our diet. Or we dont need to supplement creatine because we can just get it from food! Youre just being bullheaded.
 
TexasTitan said:
Some people dont have the time or means to perfectly compensate everytime. It seems that this is like saying, we dont need to supplement whey/protein because we can get all the protein we need from our diet. Or we dont need to supplement creatine because we can just get it from food! Youre just being bullheaded.
Click to expand...


For goodness sakes guys im not trying to start a war here. Im not being bullheaded. I simply believe based on the bodies natural mechanisms with basic nutriton and a possibly even unecessary fish oil supplement (dependant on your intake of fatty fish ie salmon)your body produces enough PS on its own that no additional supplementation is needed re: cortisol ....esp given the postive influence it exerts as well. Thats all. JMO
 
steveironman; said:
For goodness sakes guys im not trying to start a war here. Im not being bullheaded. I simply believe based on the bodies natural mechanisms with basic nutriton and a possibly even unecessary fish oil supplement (dependant on your intake of fatty fish ie salmon)your body produces enough PS on its own that no additional supplementation is needed re: cortisol ....esp given the postive influence it exerts as well. Thats all. JMO
Click to expand...

I am not sure the situation is that simple. You might need to shed more light on the synthesis of phosphatidylserine (PS) from fish oil/salmon. As far as I recall, PS is mostly found in neural cell membranes (up to 10% of lipids in those membranes), with about 50% (about 30g) of total PS in the body located found in the brain (that means total PS in the body is about 60g; 30g is found in the brain alone). Now, PS can be obtained predominantly from bovine-brain or soy (lecithin/phosphatidylcholine) sources. In terms of molecular structure, PS is serine attached to fatty acids. Bovine-derived PS is predominantly serine attached to (long-chain) polyunsaturated fatty acids. Examples of these fatty acids are DHA or arachidonic acid (AA). On the other hand, soy-derived PS is serine attached to saturated or monounsaturated fatty acids. Hence, it would be great to understand from you how fish-oil consumption increases endogenous PS concentrations.
 
^^^ PS is not a nutrient only derived from external sources. PS is systhesized in the body from 2 phospolipids both of which are found in fish oil. The body does not require additional external PS supplementation . Proper nutrition is sufficient (ps incidentally is also found in egg yolks,chicken and beef liver albeit in small amounts) but the body sythesizes it all by itself. As added insurance fish oil supplements can be used and they also, in addition to this, have other benefits as well. The body will regulate itself based on it physiological needs re cortisol control . Cortisol as mentioned above also has beneficial aspects ....to artificially suppress it IMO is not prudent ...at least not for me based on benefits it also exudes and bodies own ability to regulate it properly without external supplementation. Im not quite sure why the info above as far as where external sources of PS come from or where it is stored in the body is pertinent to the fish oil question but i hope i have answered it.
Bottom line: if it isnt broke dont fix it. The bodies own efficient mechanism will quickly suppress it to appropraite optimal levels . In addition to this many of the beneficial (and necessary) effects cortisol exhibits take place during this elevated time as well( see below again). IMO its unnecessary. I also dont believe artificially (outside bodies natural mechanism) lowering of it will have any benefit resulting in more muscle gained ...and i am not alone in this belief. Again my opinions.....

Cortisol is very important for keeping humans alive. Cortisol is responsible for maintaining our ability to process sugars, maintain our blood pressure and react to stress and illness. Cortisol helps the body respond to stress. During times of stress, cortisol levels
increase and accelerate the breakdown of proteins to provide the fuel to maintain body functions. It acts as a physiological antagonist to insulin by promoting breakdown of carbohydrates, lipids, and proteins and so mobilizing energy reserves. In addition, immune and inflammatory cells have their responses to stress attenuated by cortisol. Cortisol is known to stimulate gluconeogenesis (creation of glucose) to ensure an adequate fuel supply. It also makes fatty acids available for metabolic use. It increases mobilization of free fatty acids, making them a more available energy source, and decreases glucose utilization, sparing it for the brain. Cortisol also acts as an anti-inflamatory agent. It depresses immune reactions, and increases the vasoconstriction caused by epinephrine.

I mean no disrespect this is my opinion based on some sound information. People can make up their own minds ....thats my take....
 
steveironman; said:
^^^ PS is not a nutrient only derived from external sources. PS is systhesized in the body from 2 phospolipids both of which are found in fish oil. The body does not require additional external PS supplementation . Proper nutrition is sufficient (ps incidentally is also found in egg yolks,chicken and beef liver albeit in small amounts) but the body sythesizes it all by itself. As added insurance fish oil supplements can be used and they also, in addition to this, have other benefits as well. The body will regulate itself based on it physiological needs re cortisol control . Cortisol as mentioned above also has beneficial aspects ....to artificially suppress it IMO is not prudent ...at least not for me based on benefits it also exudes and bodies own ability to regulate it properly without external supplementation. Im not quite sure why the info above as far as where external sources of PS come from or where it is stored in the body is pertinent to the fish oil question but i hope i have answered it.
Bottom line: if it isnt broke dont fix it. The bodies own efficient mechanism will quickly suppress it to appropraite optimal levels . In addition to this many of the beneficial (and necessary) effects cortisol exhibits take place during this elevated time as well( see below again). IMO its unnecessary. I also dont believe artificially (outside bodies natural mechanism) lowering of it will have any benefit resulting in more muscle gained ...and i am not alone in this belief. Again my opinions.....

Cortisol is very important for keeping humans alive. Cortisol is responsible for maintaining our ability to process sugars, maintain our blood pressure and react to stress and illness. Cortisol helps the body respond to stress. During times of stress, cortisol levels
increase and accelerate the breakdown of proteins to provide the fuel to maintain body functions. It acts as a physiological antagonist to insulin by promoting breakdown of carbohydrates, lipids, and proteins and so mobilizing energy reserves. In addition, immune and inflammatory cells have their responses to stress attenuated by cortisol. Cortisol is known to stimulate gluconeogenesis (creation of glucose) to ensure an adequate fuel supply. It also makes fatty acids available for metabolic use. It increases mobilization of free fatty acids, making them a more available energy source, and decreases glucose utilization, sparing it for the brain. Cortisol also acts as an anti-inflamatory agent. It depresses immune reactions, and increases the vasoconstriction caused by epinephrine.

I mean no disrespect this is my opinion based on some sound information. People can make up their own minds ....thats my take....
Click to expand...

We all understand cortisol synthesis. We are also quite conversant with the benefits of fish oil. My only irritation is your suggestion in several posts in this thread that PS can be synthesized from fish oil. Perhaps you should clearly clarify the specific metabolic pathway.
 
^^ So lets not focus on all the other facts that say its not prudent to supplement with PS in the first place? If that is something you are interested in you can easily find out the precursor phospolipids found in fish oil that the body uses to synthesize PS (see below). The above is my opinion based on facts that i am comfortable coming the conclusion that for me supplementation with PS isnt prudent. Based on that i will not use a PS product....if others feel it may be benficial then by all means try it. Its not for me.
btw-
here is some data:
this article outlines the synthsis: Invalid Link Removed

this one explains contents of fish oil via an effect of fish oil study (note the phospholipid stated and relate it to above info:
Invalid Link Removed
 
steveironman; said:
^^ So lets not focus on all the other facts that say its not prudent to supplement with PS in the first place? If that is something you are interested in you can easily find out the precursor phospolipids found in fish oil that the body uses to synthesize PS (see below). The above is my opinion based on facts that i am comfortable coming the conclusion that for me supplementation with PS isnt prudent. Based on that i will not use a PS product....if others feel it may be benficial then by all means try it. Its not for me.
btw-
here is some data:
this article outlines the synthsis: Invalid Link Removed

this one explains contents of fish oil via an effect of fish oil study (note the phospholipid stated and relate it to above info:
Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

I am not sure what facts you are referring to. No one has suggested exogenous PS supplementation to you. On the contrary, you have consistently argued there is no need to supplement with PS because endogenous production from different substrates, in particular fish oil, should be fully sufficient. I challenged your postulate of the synthesis of PS from fish oil. You provided links. The first showed that one rate-limiting factor in PS synthesis is phosphatidylethanolamine, which turns out to be a component of soy, not fish oil.

Personally, I will not only continue to supplement with PS, but also consider PP's Invalid Link Removed as one of the most effective PS products around.

I just wanted to make sure we stick to facts. PS is not synthesized from fish oil.
 
strategicmove said:
I am not sure what facts you are referring to. No one has suggested exogenous PS supplementation to you. On the contrary, you have consistently argued there is no need to supplement with PS because endogenous production from different substrates, in particular fish oil, should be fully sufficient. I challenged your postulate of the synthesis of PS from fish oil. You provided links. The first showed that one rate-limiting factor in PS synthesis is phosphatidylethanolamine, which turns out to be a component of soy, not fish oil.

Personally, I will not only continue to supplement with PS, but also consider PP's Invalid Link Removed as one of the most effective PS products around.

I just wanted to make sure we stick to facts. PS is not synthesized from fish oil.
Click to expand...


Google this: phosphatidylethanolamine in fish oil

It will answer all your questions re fish oils contents. If you do a little research on your own you will find all i have stated to be true (fish oils content , synthesis to PS). Also you may wish to search on the bodies conversion of omega 3 FA to phospholipids as well...pertinent to this discussion too. So I am sticking to the facts. Thats not main point but if you want to continue to labor over it ..search away and research and you'll find this info accurate. (as it is not relavent to the OP ..i'll be happy to exchange pm's with you regarding this topic...its very interesting)
Another point need be made...the bodies primary use of PS is not cortisol suppersion. Cortisol is control by its release (process triggered inc hypothalimus -the hypothalamus sends corticotropin releasing hormone to the pituitary gland. CRH causes the pituitary to secrete adrenocorticotropin, a hormone that stimulates the adrenal glands. When the adrenals receive the ACTH, they respond by releasing cortisol into the bloodstream.) and its removal by normal disposal method of excess hormones in the body (mainly taking place in the liver.) A process that works well and imo shouldnt be tampered with.
Point being we are dealing with 2 issues:
1- Is supplementing PS necessary for normal bodily function - answer no (unless in an extremely nutritionally deficient state - prob doesnt apply to anyone here-we are not talking skipping a meal here and there guys we are talking extreme nutritionally deficient here). PS is considered a non essential nutrient, meaning it need not be directly ingested as our body produces it well enough on its own.
2- do we want to artificailly use PS to suppress cortisol.
As far as the supp goes...you make your decision ill make mine. If we want to stick to the facts re: that decision id personally refer to my posts regarding unnecessarily supplementing PS and also the positive effects of cortisol and blocking those positive effects at a time when many of them are most necessary. Add to that my personal opinion (shared by others) that it wont make the slightest difference in amount of muscle you will build and thats how i conclude that its not for me. Everyone will have their own opinion and came make their own choice.

Thanks and Happy New Year.
 
steveironman said:
Google this: phosphatidylethanolamine in fish oil

It will answer all your questions re fish oils contents. If you do a little research on your own you will find all i have stated to be true (fish oils content , synthesis to PS). Also you may wish to search on the bodies conversion of omega 3 FA to phospholipids as well...pertinent to this discussion too. So I am sticking to the facts. Thats not main point but if you want to continue to labor over it ..search away and research and you'll find this info accurate. (as it is not relavent to the OP ..i'll be happy to exchange pm's with you regarding this topic...its very interesting)
Another point need be made...the bodies primary use of PS is not cortisol suppersion. Cortisol is control by its release (process triggered inc hypothalimus -the hypothalamus sends corticotropin releasing hormone to the pituitary gland. CRH causes the pituitary to secrete adrenocorticotropin, a hormone that stimulates the adrenal glands. When the adrenals receive the ACTH, they respond by releasing cortisol into the bloodstream.) and its removal by normal disposal method of excess hormones in the body (mainly taking place in the liver.) A process that works well and imo shouldnt be tampered with.
Point being we are dealing with 2 issues:
1- Is supplementing PS necessary for normal bodily function - answer no (unless in an extremely nutritionally deficient state - prob doesnt apply to anyone here-we are not talking skipping a meal here and there guys we are talking extreme nutritionally deficient here). PS is considered a non essential nutrient, meaning it need not be directly ingested as our body produces it well enough on its own.
2- do we want to artificailly use PS to suppress cortisol.
As far as the supp goes...you make your decision ill make mine. If we want to stick to the facts re: that decision id personally refer to my posts regarding unnecessarily supplementing PS and also the positive effects of cortisol and blocking those positive effects at a time when many of them are most necessary. Add to that my personal opinion (shared by others) that it wont make the slightest difference in amount of muscle you will build and thats how i conclude that its not for me. Everyone will have their own opinion and came make their own choice.

Thanks and Happy New Year.
Click to expand...

Most commercially available fish oil tablets have all the phospholipid content removed to increase the dose of omega’s… so this really isn’t a practical approach to obtaining PS unless you are eating a ton of actual fish or squeezing fish oil out yourself.

-Eric
 
Primordial Perf said:
Most commercially available fish oil tablets have all the phospholipid content removed to increase the dose of omega’s… Not true with high quality natural fish oils..like i recommended an inexpensive high quality fish oil suppso this really isn’t a practical approach to obtaining PS unless you are eating a ton of actual fish or squeezing fish oil out yourself.

-Eric
Click to expand...

Originally Posted by steveironman
Google this: phosphatidylethanolamine in fish oil

It will answer all your questions re fish oils contents. If you do a little research on your own you will find all i have stated to be true (fish oils content , synthesis to PS). Also you may wish to search on the bodies conversion of omega 3 FA to phospholipids as well...pertinent to this discussion too. So I am sticking to the facts. Thats not main point but if you want to continue to labor over it ..search away and research and you'll find this info accurate. (as it is not relavent to the OP ..i'll be happy to exchange pm's with you regarding this topic...its very interesting)
Another point need be made...the bodies primary use of PS is not cortisol suppersion. Cortisol is control by its release (process triggered inc hypothalimus -the hypothalamus sends corticotropin releasing hormone to the pituitary gland. CRH causes the pituitary to secrete adrenocorticotropin, a hormone that stimulates the adrenal glands. When the adrenals receive the ACTH, they respond by releasing cortisol into the bloodstream.) and its removal by normal disposal method of excess hormones in the body (mainly taking place in the liver.) A process that works well and imo shouldnt be tampered with.
Point being we are dealing with 2 issues:
1-Is supplementing PS necessary for normal bodily function - answer no (unless in an extremely nutritionally deficient state - prob doesnt apply to anyone here-we are not talking skipping a meal here and there guys we are talking extreme nutritionally deficient here). PS is considered a non essential nutrient, meaning it need not be directly ingested as our body produces it well enough on its own.
2- do we want to artificailly use PS to suppress cortisol.
As far as the supp goes...you make your decision ill make mine. If we want to stick to the facts re: that decision id personally refer to my posts regarding unnecessarily supplementing PS and also the positive effects of cortisol and blocking those positive effects at a time when many of them are most necessary. Add to that my personal opinion (shared by others) that it wont make the slightest difference in amount of muscle you will build and thats how i conclude that its not for me. Everyone will have their own opinion and came make their own choice.

Thanks and Happy New Year.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top