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PapaPump's CJC-1295/GHRP-6 6-month Run

papapumpsd said:
What % bodyfat do you think I'm at now? If I'm ~16% now, I'll need to gain 9-10 lbs lean muscle and drop ~20lbs fat to reach my 205 @ 7% goal. Is that possible in the next ~4 months? I'll just have to try and see :)
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It is difficult to assess your bodyfat from those pictures. If you have significant fat deposits on your lower back I'd say you are no more than 20% bodyfat.

The good thing is that as you go along there is some type of build up ...I haven't found any science on it but the longer you are on GH the more profound body changes become.

I've been on for a long time and now it is easy to reduce bodyfat AND still gain weight/muscle week to week. By easy I mean a reduction in calories closer to maintainence, cardio several times a week and 2 weeks on and off of ephederine.

Now bro don't take this the wrong way but you DO NOT NEED to cut out carbs at six in the evening.

But if you do cut carbs back then have a big meal with plenty of fats, cholesterol & protein before bed. Maybe 5 whole eggs a slice or 2 of canadian bacon and some cheese. Even throw in some toast if you want.

Of course account for all of this in your calorie count.

I guarantee you won't be waking up to binge eat (which is ridiculous).

Don't use the night sleep time to lose weight. Think of it as a time to grow and so having slow digesting fats and protein is a good thing.

Burn the fat during the day by spacing the meals, getting blood glucose back to baseline fairly quickly post meal so that in between meals you burn some fat. Add cardio sessions and maybe something to help mobilize fat and you'll be recomping.

Also don't take this as criticism either but you have reached the upper limit of what % BF is acceptable.

Do you need to shut that stomach up? Get some fiber. The best I have ever used is, Country Life Super Fiber Psyllium Seed Husk Powder, available at Vitamin Shoppe and other places I'm sure. The finely ground Psyllium and other additives will form a gel in your stomach and help you feel sated and slow the digetion of any food you subsequently take in.
 
datBtrue said:
It is difficult to assess your bodyfat from those pictures. If you have significant fat deposits on your lower back I'd say you are no more than 20% bodyfat.

The good thing is that as you go along there is some type of build up ...I haven't found any science on it but the longer you are on GH the more profound body changes become.

I've been on for a long time and now it is easy to reduce bodyfat AND still gain weight/muscle week to week. By easy I mean a reduction in calories closer to maintainence, cardio several times a week and 2 weeks on and off of ephederine.

Now bro don't take this the wrong way but you DO NOT NEED to cut out carbs at six in the evening.

Well, I toy around w/different strategies for dieting. The issue is that while I cut the evening carbs out, I don't sufficiently replace them with enough fats and protein. That's why I get up at night most likely. I have started eating nuts and more protein before bed and I do not get up.

But if you do cut carbs back then have a big meal with plenty of fats, cholesterol & protein before bed. Maybe 5 whole eggs a slice or 2 of canadian bacon and some cheese. Even throw in some toast if you want.

Yes, I agree: More fats & protein before bed!

Of course account for all of this in your calorie count.

I guarantee you won't be waking up to binge eat (which is ridiculous).

Don't use the night sleep time to lose weight. Think of it as a time to grow and so having slow digesting fats and protein is a good thing.

I completely agree with you here.

Burn the fat during the day by spacing the meals, getting blood glucose back to baseline fairly quickly post meal so that in between meals you burn some fat. Add cardio sessions and maybe something to help mobilize fat and you'll be recomping.

The bread that I do consume is Ezekiel 7-grain sprout. Now I just need to replace all other carbs w/low glycemic foods (except PWO meal).

In fact, I'm going on a CKD to see how I respond to that. I really want to drop 10lbs in the next couple of months. But being the Holidays, I'm not sure this is the best time to start, but oh well. I am going home for Xmas for ~10 days and it's so darn hard to keep a diet when you're on vacation. I will do my best and limit the sweets. :) I'm really hoping my T3 will boost my metabolism that little bit so I can keep the weight down while on vaca. More importantly I'm hoping it'll alleviate my GH symptoms (achiness and some water).
Also don't take this as criticism either but you have reached the upper limit of what % BF is acceptable.

Sh!t, reached my upper limit? I'd say I'm way beyond MY upper limit! Don't get me started. I'm NOT happy with my conditioning, but the silver lining is that it's just fat. It's an easy fix really. It's not some incurable disease.
Do you need to shut that stomach up? Get some fiber. The best I have ever used is, Country Life Super Fiber Psyllium Seed Husk Powder, available at Vitamin Shoppe and other places I'm sure. The finely ground Psyllium and other additives will form a gel in your stomach and help you feel sated and slow the digetion of any food you subsequently take in.
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I use Now brand psyiilum husk. While it mixes like crap (doesn't really mix at all), it does its job and keeps stuff movin' so-to-speak. I will try to consume 2 fiber drinks ED religiously from now on. Thanks for the tips bud!
 
12/01/2008 (Mon.)
Weight: 213 (down 3 lbs.): Not sure if this is from the T3 or what, but I'll take it!

Still have achiness.

Right thumb down to the thumb 'belly' is intermittently mildly numb.
 
12/03/2008 (Wed.)
Weight: 213lbs

Upper body w/o today (minus biceps which is done w/legs): WORST workout in AGES. Couldn't even get through my 135lb warm-up set for incline BB. Aches, pains, soreness.....very bad today. Just did light weights and 12-15 rep sets.

The numbness in my right thumb has expanded to my right pointer finger.

Has anyone experienced asymmetric numbing and/or the spread of numbing? I was hoping T3 would alleviate some of these symptoms, but no such luck (yet).
 
papapumpsd said:
12/03/2008 (Wed.)


The numbness in my right thumb has expanded to my right pointer finger.

Has anyone experienced asymmetric numbing and/or the spread of numbing? I was hoping T3 would alleviate some of these symptoms, but no such luck (yet).
Click to expand...

^^^^ BUMP!

Also, my libido has been zilch for about a week. VERY abnormal. I'm usually a scoundral around the misses but I've had no interest. Also, I've had a slight spike in acne (shoulders and some facial). Sort of like when I was on a test booster, but no test booster libidio increase.

Furthermore, my recovery is TERRIBLE! My legs are still sore from my Monday workout (which destroyed me, yet I only did 1 set of 315 squat for 8-10reps, followed by 3 sets of lying leg curls).

:think:
 
Papa:
Been running these just about as long as you...as far as the numbing issue, I do get numbing of the fingers, whole hand etc...just depends on the day...usually I just shake it out to alleviate it, which seems to help...as far as recovery, my recovery has been outstanding....only complaint I have is the lethargy and sleepiness.....let me know how you make out w t3...I'll be starting my cutter in March and need to plan what to incorporate...
 
Papa have used the quads to inject to give the abdomen a break? And have you thought about running MGF to add to the peptides?
 
walt said:
Papa have used the quads to inject to give the abdomen a break? And have you thought about running MGF to add to the peptides?
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Walt, I have used quads (SQ) to give the abdomen a break.

I have thought about using MGF, but not with my current peps. Have you used MGF along w/CJC1295 & GHRP6?
 
papapumpsd said:
Send me your email and I'll email you a PDF on MGF (it's an intro write-up).
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Sorry bro but administering MGF will never work no matter what the form.

I don't like to trumpet this information because I don't like to abuse people's illusions but take a look at my post: Invalid Link Removed

If you have any questions ask them in my thread.

Or go believe the stickies and Gavin Kane guides. Its up to you. Remember noone on any forum ever stickied anything I've ever writen so I must not know what I'm talking about.
 
datBtrue said:
Sorry bro but administering MGF will never work no matter what the form.

I don't like to trumpet this information because I don't like to abuse people's illusions but take a look at my post: Invalid Link Removed

If you have any questions ask them in my thread.

Or go believe the stickies and Gavin Kane guides. Its up to you. Remember noone on any forum ever stickied anything I've ever writen so I must not know what I'm talking about.
Click to expand...

The reason I have never tried MGF is because I have not seen solid evidence that it works. There's a lot of thumbs up and thumbs down w/regards to how well it works and if something has that much of a hit and miss, there's def. a problem.

----------------------------------

I'm thinking of taking ~10 days off from my peps (Dec. 19th-Dec. 29th). I'll be in another state for Xmas vacation and I think that would be a nice time to chill on the peps. for a while.

If anyone has a comment on that, I'm all ears.
 
ive been doing, grf 100mcg/ ghrp-6 300mcg 5 to 6 times a day with addition of mgf 2 hours before into muscle trained. i have read dabs thread on how it actually works, like igf instead of real mgf, but i already had it and wanted to try it. i can diff tell during workout my muscles that i train feel so hard like im flexing all the time and the pump seems to hold longer. ive noticed my muscle burns more when working it.


i would have to say my weight has gone up some and slightly bd fat% as well while on grf/ghrp-6. i hope it's not from increase of proc/ or cortisol. i heard that gets increased with those compounds.,

STATS(when i was on test/tren/igf =190lbs 7 BDfat%,
then after postcycle no supps=187lbs 9.5 BDfat%,
Now been on grf/ghrp6 for a couple of months=195lbs
10.5 BDfat%)

other then that i look pumped all day and never weighed this much with out AAS, so far grf/ghrp-6 is good for me.....
 
rexanator said:
ive been doing, grf 100mcg/ ghrp-6 300mcg 5 to 6 times a day with addition of mgf 2 hours before into muscle trained. i have read dabs thread on how it actually works, like igf instead of real mgf, but i already had it and wanted to try it. i can diff tell during workout my muscles that i train feel so hard like im flexing all the time and the pump seems to hold longer. ive noticed my muscle burns more when working it.


i would have to say my weight has gone up some and slightly bd fat% as well while on grf/ghrp-6. i hope it's not from increase of proc/ or cortisol. i heard that gets increased with those compounds.,

STATS(when i was on test/tren/igf =190lbs 7 BDfat%,
then after postcycle no supps=187lbs 9.5 BDfat%,
Now been on grf/ghrp6 for a couple of months=195lbs
10.5 BDfat%)

other then that i look pumped all day and never weighed this much with out AAS, so far grf/ghrp-6 is good for me.....
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You are probably holding additional water from the peps. You might try adding a mild diuretic in the mix to see if you can drop some weight (water).
 
actually i looked back at my notebook, i was wrong,

one month after cycle i was 184lbs bdfat7.7%
now 2 months later and on grf/ghrp-6 =195lbs bdfat10%, ofcourse it varys day to day, up or down...
 
datBtrue said:
Sorry bro but administering MGF will never work no matter what the form.

I don't like to trumpet this information because I don't like to abuse people's illusions but take a look at my post: Invalid Link Removed

If you have any questions ask them in my thread.

Or go believe the stickies and Gavin Kane guides. Its up to you. Remember noone on any forum ever stickied anything I've ever writen so I must not know what I'm talking about.
Click to expand...

I have to say that it seems to work for me, or no not just seems but I get a good effect from MGF. I read your post and what you say makes sense but it definitely does something for me.

Whenever I add pegMGF to any of my peptide stack I suddenly notice an increase in DOMS. A few days later I get a fuller feeling all over with increased pumps. Non-peg injected locally after a few weeks adds some size and even vascularity to the muscle in question. Now of course as you wrote it is probably acting like IGF but nonetheless it does work. Perhaps no cell pooling as we hope but certainly hypertrophy. I also don't think its conclusive that it can never work as MGF. My 2 cents bro but im sticking with my thoughts on this.
 
pumbertot; said:
I have to say that it seems to work for me, or no not just seems but I get a good effect from MGF. I read your post and what you say makes sense but it definitely does something for me.

Whenever I add pegMGF to any of my peptide stack I suddenly notice an increase in DOMS. A few days later I get a fuller feeling all over with increased pumps. Non-peg injected locally after a few weeks adds some size and even vascularity to the muscle in question. Now of course as you wrote it is probably acting like IGF but nonetheless it does work. Perhaps no cell pooling as we hope but certainly hypertrophy. I also don't think its conclusive that it can never work as MGF. My 2 cents bro but im sticking with my thoughts on this.
Click to expand...

If it behaved as MGF you would have a 25% increase in muscle mass in 3 weeks.

MGF is transcribed (in pieces) just like IGF-1 but there is a frame shift to the right when the pieces are spliced together. RNA shuttles these plans to the ribosomes where IGF-1 is made and MGF.

BECAUSE of the difference in structure MGF is forced to translocate to the Nucleus & Nucleolus. It has no choice...that is the pull.

BECAUSE of the structure IGF-1 is forced to move into cytoplasm and then eventually to the cell surface to bind with the receptor. It has no choice...that is the pull.

The mistake people make is believing all events are intitated/mediated by a lock & key ligand/receptor. That is NOT the case with MGF. It is able to act w/o any such receptor.

MGF is not a peptide that circulates outside the cell. BECAUSE it doesn't it has all sorts of really cool power in protecting brain & heart ...in acting in ways that don't increase cellular metabolism the way IGF-1 does...which means MGF has a positive role to play in longevity while IGF-1 has a negative role to play.

I have done more research and these concepts are not just conjecture it is the way it is. I pointed to that post because I don't feel like writing anything in more detail. I could. I might still. But the truth people don't really want to know.

Using IGF-1 LR3 is different then using a pegylated-IGF-1 probably only by degree. The effect you will feel and enjoy straightaway w/ IGF-1 is insulin effects.

You got injuries secreting substances that mark it for repair...you best believe IGF-1 will help repair.

Glycogen uptake and the whole IGF-1 ball of wax...

But ain't none of that MGF.

pumbertot; said:
I also don't think its conclusive that it can never work as MGF. My 2 cents bro but im sticking with my thoughts on this.
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Yes it is conclusive. I have been accused of not giving straight yes or no answers and being long-winded (on another board) just to show how much I know.

...and yet if I go the other way I get comments like yours.

Its just not worth it to me to take the time to write an article referencing my points of authority which are conclusive points of fact ...for what?

This sh1t, this convincing sh1t is too f@cking boring to me. So I have moved on and am learning heaps about lifespan, longevity and how the growth factors interplay with all of this. In other words cool stuff that feeds my desire to know.

So you are not convinced? Who cares.
 
datBtrue said:
Yes it is conclusive. I have been accused of not giving straight yes or no answers and being long-winded (on another board) just to show how much I know.

...and yet if I go the other way I get comments like yours.

Its just not worth it to me to take the time to write an article referencing my points of authority which are conclusive points of fact ...for what?

This sh1t, this convincing sh1t is too f@cking boring to me. So I have moved on and am learning heaps about lifespan, longevity and how the growth factors interplay with all of this. In other words cool stuff that feeds my desire to know.

So you are not convinced? Who cares.
Click to expand...

If it wasnt from you I would be offended by the tone of your answer. But it is you, so im not at all.

Yes im convinced now and I was already thinking its probably the IGF like effects at play.
I said not conclusive because I see no study which had a bunch of guys injecting MGF to confirm it does sh1t, I did not realise it would cause you any annoyance so I apologise for that bro.

You know I respect you highly and I know what you type is backed by some diligant research of your own and as always I appreciate you input. I got the mgf pretty cheap so I will use it but most likely I wont pursue that avenue again, thanks to your wisdom.

I like the idea of longevity in keeping yourself young as you age but dont want to live until im very old. Once I can no longer train, burn me and scatter my ashes in the wind.
 
likkayouth said:
Can you tell whether the T3 is the reason for the weight drop?
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;) I can't definitively tell, but I'd say with that much weight loss, there's water lost. I'm also on the CKD as well. I carbed up on Fri night and all day/night Sat. so I do not think my weight loss was glycogen. If it was, it was very little.

I'll continue to post weights as time goes on. Thanks for asking Likka!
 
12/15/2008 (Tues.)
Weight: 211lbs

I have not had the headaches I usually have. I have not dosed ANY peptides for several days.

I have been sick the past several days (sore throat and very mild cough).

I appear a bit leaner, or should I say, less puffy. I attribute this to reduced water bloat. In the grand scheme of things, I don't look much different because I'm down only 5 lbs.

====================================

In my hunt for peptide journal articles, I came across this fantastic read (long and fairly complicated, but packed with great info on GH control & secretion).

The references (>1100) make it a gem itself! For you AAS fellas that use GH (or GHRH/GHRPs), you might want to take a look at reference 1045: "Testosterone and oxandrolone, a nonaromatizable androgen, specifically amplify the mass and rate of growth hormone (GH) secreted per burst without altering GH secretory burst duration or frequency or the GH half-life."

I was planning on running Anavar (Oxandrolone) w/my peps, but I will most likely run an OTC DS (designer steroid) due to legality issues. ;)
-------------------------------------------
EDIT (Addition):
I forgot to mention that I found this particular bit of info from the below article VERY interesting. I had no idea that acromegaly could be caused by a tumor not in the brain:

"The discovery of GHRH has been reviewed extensively (see Refs. 274, 749) and is only briefly alluded to here. Growth hormone-releasing hormone was isolated in 1982 from two patients in whom pancreatic tumors had caused acromegaly. From one of these tumors a 40-amino acid peptide designated human pancreatic growth hormone-releasing factor hpGRF-(1---40) was isolated (892),1 and three GHRH peptides, GHRH-(1---44)-NH2, GHRH-(1---40)-OH, and GHRH-(1---37)-OH, were sequenced from the other tumor (450). Structure-activity relationships showed that the NH2-terminal 29 residues of GHRH-(1---40)-OH have biological activity and indicated that although the NH2-terminal portion of the molecule is involved in binding to the receptor, the COOH-terminal portion is critical in regulating the potency of GHRH.
Two of the three GHRH forms found in tumors were subsequently identified in human hypothalamus [GHRH-(1---44)-NH2 and GHRH-(1---40)-OH] and differed only by the absence in the latter of the four COOH-terminal amino acid residues (613, 617). Identification of the GHRH sequence in pigs, goats, sheep, and cattle has shown the existence of the 44-amino acid form amidated at the COOH terminal (617). Rat hypothalamic GHRH (rGHRH) contains 43 amino acids with a free acidic group. In addition, rGHRH is structurally different from the other GHRH peptides [14 amino acid substitutions or deletions compared with GHRH-(1---44)] (see Refs. 756, 979)."
-------------------------------------------------

Invalid Link Removed

Neuroendocrine Control of Growth Hormone Secretion

Physiological Reviews, Vol. 79, No. 2, April 1999, pp. 511-607
Copyright ©1999 by the American Physiological Society
Eugenio E. Müller, Vittorio Locatelli, and Daniela Cocchi

TOC
I. INTRODUCTION
II. GROWTH HORMONE SECRETION PATTERN
A. Sex
B. Age-Related Growth Hormone Secretion
C. Sleep
III. HYPOPHYSIOTROPIC HORMONES
A. Growth Hormone-Releasing Hormone
B. Somatostatin
IV. GROWTH HORMONE-RELEASING PEPTIDES
A. Structure-Activity Relationships
B. Nonpeptidyl Growth Hormone Secretagogues
C. Site(s) and Mechanism of Action
D. Human Studies
E. Effects on Other Pituitary Hormones
F. Conclusions
V. BRAIN MESSENGERS IN THE CONTROL OF GROWTH HORMONE SECRETION
A. General Background
B. Characteristic Features
C. Main Locations of Neurotransmitter and Neuropeptide Pathways
D. Neurotransmitters
E. Growth Hormone-Releasing and -Inhibiting Neuropeptides
VI. PERIPHERAL HORMONAL AND METABOLIC SIGNALS OR CONDITIONS MODULATING GROWTH HORMONE SECRETION
A. Hormones
B. Metabolic Signals
C. Physiopathology of Nutritional Excess or Deficiency
VII. GROWTH HORMONE AUTOFEEDBACK MECHANISM
A. Growth Hormone
B. Insulin-Like Growth Factor I
VIII. CONCLUDING REMARKS
 
papapumpsd said:
For you AAS fellas that use GH (or GHRH/GHRPs), you might want to take a look at reference 1045: "Testosterone and oxandrolone, a nonaromatizable androgen, specifically amplify the mass and rate of growth hormone (GH) secreted per burst without altering GH secretory burst duration or frequency or the GH half-life."
Click to expand...

Couple that with Trenbolone and maybe you'll grow...imagine that. :)

Trenbolone alters the responsiveness of skeletal muscle satellite cells to fibroblast growth factor and insulin-like growth factor I

SH Thompson, LK Boxhorn, WY Kong and RE Allen
Department of Animal Sciences, University of Arizona, Tucson 85721.

Endocrinology, Vol 124, 2110-2117, 1989

The potential role of satellite cells in mediating the effect of trenbolone [17 beta-hydroxyestra-4,9-11-trien-3-one (TBOH)] on skeletal muscle hypertrophy was examined.

Young female Sprague-Dawley rats received TBOH injections daily for 2 weeks; growth, body composition, and the composition of selected muscles were assessed. Treated rats grew more rapidly and deposited less body lipid and more protein. The semimembranosus muscle from treated rats was larger and had approximately 60% more DNA per muscle than muscles from control rats.

The addition of trenbolone directly to the medium of cultured satellite cells did not stimulate cell proliferation, nor did it augment the stimulatory response of these cells to fibroblast growth factor (FGF) or insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I). In contrast, satellite cells cultured from TBOH-treated rats exhibited greater proliferative responses to FGF and IGF-I than satellite cells from control rats. In addition, serum from TBOH-treated rats stimulated greater cell proliferation in satellite cell cultures than serum from control rats.

These experiments suggest that one possible mechanism responsible for the ability of TBOH to stimulate skeletal muscle hypertrophy may be through enhanced proliferation and differentiation of satellite cells as a result of the increased sensitivity of these cells to IGF-I and FGF.​
 
12/19/2008 (Friday)
I did upper body on 12/17/2008 (Wed.). I decided to do high rep stuff. I was felt lethargic and was VERY sore from my leg workout from Monday, so I had a shotty workout. My damn calves are still really sore from Monday.

I actually did flat BB bench! Unfortunately, I'm paranoid of injuring myself so I kept my one set to very high reps.

Here's my chest workout: I'm still very sore.
1) BB incline bench: 135 x 12 (2 sets), 185 x 10; I stopped and decided to try flat BB bench.
2) Flat BB bench: 225 x 20 (1 set to failure)
3) Flat bench DB flyes: 45 x 12, 55 x 10-12, 65 x ~8

I really only had a 2-3 working sets total.

For triceps:
DB behind neck extensions (one-arm): 30 x 12 (2 sets)

Back: None (oopsy!)
Abs: None
Traps: seated DB single-arm shrugs: A couple of jerk off sets since I was feeling just beat and sore.

This would be a typical "Why the fukc am I even at the gym today" workout for me.

I'm off from the gym today since I will hopefully catch a plane for Xmas vacation w/the fam! I will probably only workout 1-2x in the next ~10 days. I will do cardio (powerwalking up/down big hills) fairly frequently. I'm already dreading the 5,000ft+ elevation I'll be at.

Also, while traveling, I will not have access to R&D chems. That's a vacation on its own! ;)

:)
 
12/28/2008 (Sun.)

Hey bros! I'm flying home early tomorrow! I'll miss this place, the mountains, the family, and old my friends. It's been absolutely fantastic not working out for ~1.5 weeks! I've done light cardio a few times here. Feels great letting my body recover. I've slept in so much it's crazy. Lovin' it here!

Well, I'm beyond eager to start hitting the weights again hard (and my peps and upcoming oral cycle). I will resume lifting Monday evening! My recomp starts very soon too! I'm stoked to get my summer conditioning underway. :)

I hope everyone has had a great Christmas or other holiday season so far!

Cheers,

-Papa!-
 
pumbertot said:
I have to say that it seems to work for me, or no not just seems but I get a good effect from MGF. I read your post and what you say makes sense but it definitely does something for me.

Whenever I add pegMGF to any of my peptide stack I suddenly notice an increase in DOMS. A few days later I get a fuller feeling all over with increased pumps. Non-peg injected locally after a few weeks adds some size and even vascularity to the muscle in question. Now of course as you wrote it is probably acting like IGF but nonetheless it does work. Perhaps no cell pooling as we hope but certainly hypertrophy. I also don't think its conclusive that it can never work as MGF. My 2 cents bro but im sticking with my thoughts on this.
Click to expand...
MGF and peg-MGF really, really work for me too, pumbertot. i get very similar results as you.

not the first time that science didnt accurately predict a pharmacologic action...
 
12/31/2008 (Wed.)

Weight: 212lbs.

Happy New Year everyone :)

I had a pretty good leg day today. I did my 315 x 8 set of squat and it felt good, believe it or not! So I went to 365 x 8. Very little back pump! Good set. My legs are toast today (Thurs.)
 
01/02/2008 (Fri.)
Weight: 214.5 lbs.

Had a very nice workout. My strength keeps increasing. Me have big smile.....matches me big a$$.

=======================================

01/04/2008 (Sun.)

Well guys, it's time I add in an oral. I'm looking for some opinions on whether I should run a "regular" cycle or a lower-dosed, longer-term cycle.

I could, for example, run a typical 4 week Epistane cycle (20/30/40/40) or I could do a longer 8-10 wk cycle of Epi at low dose (10mg ED?). What do you think will work better with GHRP/GHRH?

Thanks, and if anyone has a specific compound (legal*) they'd like to recommend (along w/brand), I'm listening! :)

*I don't want to discuss legality issues here.
 
likkayouth said:
I wish you would research S-4 at 12.5 - 25mg per day for a couple of months.
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Thanks likka for the heads-up. Can you be more specific on that compound? Is there a different name than "s-4"? I've tried briefly Googling "S-4" and I get a lot of junk.
 
12/05/2008 (Mon.)

I had a few Epistane pills left from a previous cycle. I'll be running Epi 10mg ED for ~13 days, starting today. WTH, might as well use 'em :)

Also, I'm dosing CJC/GHRP 3x ED (AM/Noon/PM).
 
papapumpsd said:
It seemed to come down because I was ~211lbs and since the peps. were added back in, I'm 216lbs today. I'm doing the CKD now so I'm hoping to drop weight (including water).
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That's good to hear, because I went from 194lbs to 201lbs in 4 weeks, on GRF 200mg, GHRP 500mcg and Epistane 40mg per day. I substituted the Epistane with 6-OXO, I'll stop the GRF in a week, and I hope I'll lose 3-4 lbs of water from that.
All the weight loss beyond that will have to be muscle. A stupid problem to have. Hopefully Dat's advice on the Psyllium Seed Husk will help accomplish that.
BTW I'm still pondering about getting some T3. It will definitely help burning calories, but I have no idea how it will affect athletic performance.
 
Hey papa,
i've been following along and i'd like to see you run 15-20mg pherplex clone for 6 weeks as your oral. The reason i say this is because according to a legitimate study some of the gains are attributed to increased IGF-1 levels. sounds like good synergy to me. Can you give a brief summary of the good and bad things you experienced from your peptide run? I'm about to run ghrp-6 with p-plex so i'd love to hear what you think thus far.
 
likkayouth said:
That's good to hear, because I went from 194lbs to 201lbs in 4 weeks, on GRF 200mg, GHRP 500mcg and Epistane 40mg per day. I substituted the Epistane with 6-OXO, I'll stop the GRF in a week, and I hope I'll lose 3-4 lbs of water from that.
All the weight loss beyond that will have to be muscle. A stupid problem to have. Hopefully Dat's advice on the Psyllium Seed Husk will help accomplish that.
BTW I'm still pondering about getting some T3. It will definitely help burning calories, but I have no idea how it will affect athletic performance.
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Likka, thanks for sharing. How did you run your Epi? I'd be interested in your specific dosing and duration of the run. Can you comment on how well Epi worked along w/the peptides?

I'm not sure what you are referring to when you mention Dat's psyllium seed husk. What are you hoping it'd do? I use it to A) keep the GI contents moving, B) to act as a filler for the gut. That's about all it'll do. It will also remove some cholesterol, but I don't use it for that specifically.

Well, if you're pondering using T3 along w/the peps, I think it's a good idea since GH blunts your thyroid's production. I'm dosing 25mcg ED. It's low dose, but the idea is to substitute for the lost endog. output. This is not a fat burning dose so I don't think athletic performance will be lost (if anything, it may be gained).
 
ezza said:
Hey papa,
i've been following along and i'd like to see you run 15-20mg pherplex clone for 6 weeks as your oral. The reason i say this is because according to a legitimate study some of the gains are attributed to increased IGF-1 levels. sounds like good synergy to me. Can you give a brief summary of the good and bad things you experienced from your peptide run? I'm about to run ghrp-6 with p-plex so i'd love to hear what you think thus far.
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ezza, thanks for the input. I have not used Phera, but have heard it produces wet gains. I will admit, I'm not real familiar with it, so your dosing recommendation is foreign to me and I'm not sure if that's a low dose or high. I will have to look into it.

The more I think about it though, the more I lean toward a regular oral AAS run (Epi, 20/30/40/40). My issue w/Epi is that I had too many sides w/it when I ran it last time. Back pumps, some acne, and a couple of other things I can't recall (it's in my Epi log). I was hoping for far fewer sides. With such a large array of DSes out there, I may try something else. But, when paired w/GH, I am not sure if Epi will be easier on me.

ezza, you state, "The reason i say this is because according to a legitimate study some of the gains are attributed to increased IGF-1 levels." What is attributed to increased IGF-1 levels? I'm assuming you mean the Phera results in increased IGF-1 levels. I'm not real concenred w/IGF-1 levels as that's what GH does....increases IGF-1.

To be quite honest w/everyone, I'm still foggy on how AAS + GH work synergystically. In other words, GH alone is nearly useless (for BBing purposes), but when you toss in AAS it's a whole new ball game. I get the increased protein synthesis, but that's what AAS does so it's to be expected. I read an article posted in the Steroid section: Invalid Link Removed

Dat, you may even know the author and others cited in said article since they are active in the anti-aging/GH world, so-to-speak.

I hear that GH + AAS + slin is the way to add real size, but as some of you know, slin is not an option for me.

If anyone would like to chime in as to how GH + AAS work SYNERGYSTICALLY, please do.
 
papapumpsd said:
ezza, thanks for the input. I have not used Phera, but have heard it produces wet gains. I will admit, I'm not real familiar with it, so your dosing recommendation is foreign to me and I'm not sure if that's a low dose or high. I will have to look into it.

The more I think about it though, the more I lean toward a regular oral AAS run (Epi, 20/30/40/40). My issue w/Epi is that I had too many sides w/it when I ran it last time. Back pumps, some acne, and a couple of other things I can't recall (it's in my Epi log). I was hoping for far fewer sides. With such a large array of DSes out there, I may try something else. But, when paired w/GH, I am not sure if Epi will be easier on me.

ezza, you state, "The reason i say this is because according to a legitimate study some of the gains are attributed to increased IGF-1 levels." What is attributed to increased IGF-1 levels? I'm assuming you mean the Phera results in increased IGF-1 levels. I'm not real concenred w/IGF-1 levels as that's what GH does....increases IGF-1.

To be quite honest w/everyone, I'm still foggy on how AAS + GH work synergystically. In other words, GH alone is nearly useless (for BBing purposes), but when you toss in AAS it's a whole new ball game. I get the increased protein synthesis, but that's what AAS does so it's to be expected. I read an article posted in the Steroid section: Invalid Link Removed

Dat, you may even know the author and others cited in said article since they are active in the anti-aging/GH world, so-to-speak.

I hear that GH + AAS + slin is the way to add real size, but as some of you know, slin is not an option for me.

If anyone would like to chime in as to how GH + AAS work SYNERGYSTICALLY, please do.
Click to expand...

I think there are a number of ways they work together like the obvious protein synthesis, cell and tissue growth etc but iirc androgens upregulate igf receptors which is one of the main reasons for the synergy.
 
papapumpsd said:
Likka, thanks for sharing. How did you run your Epi? I'd be interested in your specific dosing and duration of the run. Can you comment on how well Epi worked along w/the peptides?
Click to expand...

10,20, 30 the 1st, 2nd and 3rd day, and 40mg after that for a total of 25 days. Ideally I'd run it at a lower dose (10-15mg) for a longer time, but I have certain time constraints and had to be done with it before New Year.
I decided to go with the higher dosage, hoping it will somewhat compensate for the certain missed workouts around the holidays. My strength decreases very fast when I don't get enough training stimulus, and it is very important I at the least maintain it, if not increase it.
I did get a strength increase, greater than just on the peptides, they give me mostly recovery and strength endurance when run solo. Bodyfat decreased a little too, even on my ass, but unfortunately I also got heavier. Those are desired effects for most people I guess, but I need to stay under a certain weight. I think the 6-OXO is drying me out even more now, I like it.


papapumpsd said:
I'm not sure what you are referring to when you mention Dat's psyllium seed husk. What are you hoping it'd do? I use it to A) keep the GI contents moving, B) to act as a filler for the gut. That's about all it'll do. It will also remove some cholesterol, but I don't use it for that specifically.
Click to expand...

Filler for the gut - the only thing I need it to do. I have the appetite to maintain a 220lbs body, with fat % about 9-10, but I need to stay under 190lbs ... Been hungry for the past 5 years, it sucks.

papapumpsd said:
Well, if you're pondering using T3 along w/the peps, I think it's a good idea since GH blunts your thyroid's production. I'm dosing 25mcg ED. It's low dose, but the idea is to substitute for the lost endog. output. This is not a fat burning dose so I don't think athletic performance will be lost (if anything, it may be gained).
Click to expand...

Yea, I'm about to order it today.
Thanks
 
likkayouth said:
10,20, 30 the 1st, 2nd and 3rd day, and 40mg after that for a total of 25 days. Ideally I'd run it at a lower dose (10-15mg) for a longer time, but I have certain time constraints and had to be done with it before New Year.
I decided to go with the higher dosage, hoping it will somewhat compensate for the certain missed workouts around the holidays. My strength decreases very fast when I don't get enough training stimulus, and it is very important I at the least maintain it, if not increase it.
I did get a strength increase, greater than just on the peptides, they give me mostly recovery and strength endurance when run solo. Bodyfat decreased a little too, even on my ass, but unfortunately I also got heavier. Those are desired effects for most people I guess, but I need to stay under a certain weight. I think the 6-OXO is drying me out even more now, I like it.


Ok, great. I will prob. run Epi. at 10mg for a while. I'll toy around w/it and see what happens

Filler for the gut - the only thing I need it to do. I have the appetite to maintain a 220lbs body, with fat % about 9-10, but I need to stay under 190lbs ... Been hungry for the past 5 years, it sucks.

Yes, it works as a filler very well. Of course, to get more nutrient dense fills, you can choke down veggies/salad too.

Yea, I'm about to order it today.
Thanks
Click to expand...

BTW, my rep comment was supposed to say "T3", not "TC"! ;)
 
Another thing I noticed. When I was using creatine with the peptides, my knees swelled up, when I added the Epistane, the swelling increased. When I stopped both creatine and Epistane, I could notice a reduction of the swelling after 3 days, and it's even less today.
 
papapump....loved your log thus far - very interesting info and good grief.... there are so many easy things to switch up with these peptides we have to be careful that we know the exact protocol we are aiming for.
 
jg0524 said:
papapump....loved your log thus far - very interesting info and good grief.... there are so many easy things to switch up with these peptides we have to be careful that we know the exact protocol we are aiming for.
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jg, glad you have enjoyed the log thus far. I agree, there are quite a few things that can be switched up. But, I believe this research to be quite flexible in dosing, without neg. sides. Unlike AAS where small increments in dose typically yield significant physiologic changes, CJC/GHRP acts so slowly that a change in dose will most likely not be noticable (or at least not as pronounced as AAS) in the short-term.

I hope I haven't confused anyone by this.

Please don't think I'm saying that changing your dose of either of these two peptides will not affect you. It will, but if it's only a change in singlicate or duplicate, it prob. won't be noticeable. These chemicals work over the long-run.
 
i agree with you completely - for example AAS - confusing for example a test with a tren compound and end up running a gram of tren a week - you might end up really hurting yourself.

Where as mixing up GHRP-6 and CJC will not give the same affect neccesarily, especially in the short run. This is a least IMO, without any real experience as of today - just from others and reading.

However, when testing, what I meant was you should know exactly what protocol YOU want to use, and stick to that, to get consistent results.

Good point...
 
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