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The Buyout- Your opinions

Should there be a bail out?

  • Yes

    Votes: 8 22.2%
  • No

    Votes: 28 77.8%

  • Total voters
    36
Okay rugger. Heres your crash course in a s s rapage 101.

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Seriously rugger, we can have different opinions, but facts are facts.

Are you actually aware of your surroundings?
 
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This is about the buy out you dumbshit. You said it was one more rapage by the Bush house, REFERRING TO THE BUY OUT, NOTHING ELSE. I said NOTHING about ANYTHING else. Luckily for me you continue to reveal your ignorance about the actual buy out and what it will do.

We aren't talking about national debt, we aren't talking about the war and we aren't talking about any other mistakes Bush has made. You continuously, in this thread and others, go off on tangents irrelevant to the ACTUAL TOPIC to defame Bush. We get it, you don't like him.
 
Rugger this is more than just a "Bail-out" and you friggin know it. Its protecting the fat cats and the coat-tails.

You are not a dumb man.

Im friggin outta here.
 
Rugger this is more than just a "Bail-out" and you friggin know it. Its protecting the fat cats and the coat-tails.

You are not a dumb man.

Im friggin outta here.

Fat cats huh? You mean people being threatened with foreclose and small businesses trying to get a loan? Yeah. This is NO bail out. Not in any sense of the word. The government will be BUYING securities. They will not be giving anyone any money. Read the ****ing bill already. Get your **** straight. The bill that will be rewritten or written anew will hold even more benefits for the people. Do you still not understand that the government will have a decent chance at SELLING all the assets it buys for PROFIT?!
 
I dunno about you, but I sleep with my tin foil hat ON!

Keeps aliens, mind control rays and the sun away and the ladies LOVE my tactical combat innovations!

Alright, back on topic.

If, the government, does not bail out dipshit 1 and dipshit 2, what are the consequences? what if they just let them sink, go bankrupt, f*** em, what'll happen?
 
No one can say for certain, but speculation says market crash, plummeting dollar, prices on imported goods sky rocket, banks snatch up all defaulting loans and assets, people get kicked out of their houses, lose their cars, both large and small business dead in the water because of inability to get a loan, layoffs bread lines etc...

that's worse case scenario, obviously, but the potential is there.
 
Wow, just wow. This thread is all over the place. And Somewhat, before you go spouting off about American Soldiers told you this, and American Soldiers tell you that, keep your damn mouth closed. You are spouting off about bullshit you know nothing about. I am an American Soldier and your statement is asinine. Anyone who has been over there will NOT TELL YOU that it is a war for oil IN ANY SENSE. If that was the case... WHERE IS THE OIL? Cause I haven't seen any of those benefits yet.

But like Omen said, time to put on my tin foil hat, and continue about my day. This MoveOn.Org generation is astronomically far off.

"Thats all i have to say about that"

Adams
 
No one can say for certain, but speculation says market crash, plummeting dollar, prices on imported goods sky rocket, banks snatch up all defaulting loans and assets, people get kicked out of their houses, lose their cars, both large and small business dead in the water because of inability to get a loan, layoffs bread lines etc...

that's worse case scenario, obviously, but the potential is there.

And worst cast scenario with the bailout? everything stays "normal" ?
 
And worst cast scenario with the bailout? everything stays "normal" ?

Worst case scenario, well it's again difficult to say. Worse case would be something like major banks ridding themselves of toxic debt but still having a run on deposits or share prices collapsing. It's more difficult to say that if we do nothing because the plan is solid in theory. I haven't seen many, if any analysts saying that the buy out wont do what it's supposed to. Most people who are rejecting the proposal are doing so because they are either misinformed, not satisfied with longterm economic protections or just disagree with government meddling with financials.
 
Haha this reminds me of racism, sexism and homophobia right here insults blanket statements and condescention. First you use an extreme example totally irrelevant as if it somehow nullifies anothers opinions.

eg. Oh you have a picture of a black and white girl you emo tight jean wearing poo pusher, i like girls and god and your a devil worshipper.

So now that you have no credibility i ask a rhetorical question so you cannot purse your point and i dont have to add anything or provide supporting evidence.

This is childs play and 8 years ago you thought god supported your brothers dying because some guy allegedly make a group hit a building with a plane right?
Then i bet you thought you really had to kill them because THEY strategically released SARS on the immocent right?
There were WMD's right?
The federal reserve was a good thing right?
People make money love god and love you and they got to the top because of their individual greatness right?
Youve exhuastively researched your opinions and are muscly so your superior right?
Bush is awesome and the things hes done have worked out great right?

How do you suppose the world is in this state? Hmmmmm....

It was aliens, terrorists, natural disasters and the natural result of pursuing freedom right?

Get your facts, sheets, ignorance and mount up becasue its time to ride into the sunset, yay there will be a clown and its you.

And you have any credibility? HAHAHAHA. You think the federal reserve make a profit and that it's shares can be traded and sold. LMAO.
 
Wow, just wow. This thread is all over the place. And Somewhat, before you go spouting off about American Soldiers told you this, and American Soldiers tell you that, keep your damn mouth closed. You are spouting off about bullshit you know nothing about. I am an American Soldier and your statement is asinine. Anyone who has been over there will NOT TELL YOU that it is a war for oil IN ANY SENSE. If that was the case... WHERE IS THE OIL? Cause I haven't seen any of those benefits yet.

But like Omen said, time to put on my tin foil hat, and continue about my day. This MoveOn.Org generation is astronomically far off.

"Thats all i have to say about that"

Adams

The purpose of this war isnt to make america rich its to make certain people rich is not that complicated its not the people doing it its the guys pulling strings. All you have done is played along, done what you were told and defended your purpose.
America will be broken because thats what it will take to make you AGREE to giving away your rights as you already have thus far.
I dont know what else i can say to open eyes in here i guess i should have known better.
Look around, stop being so narrow minded and angry consider the other side thats all i can say.
 
The purpose of this war isnt to make america rich its to make certain people rich is not that complicated its not the people doing it its the guys pulling strings. All you have done is played along, done what you were told and defended your purpose.
America will be broken because thats what it will take to make you AGREE to giving away your rights as you already have thus far.
I dont know what else i can say to open eyes in here i guess i should have known better.
Look around, stop being so narrow minded and angry consider the other side thats all i can say.

Why don't you look around and get your facts straight before more people realize you're a dumbshit.
 
And you have any credibility? HAHAHAHA. You think the federal reserve make a profit and that it's shares can be traded and sold. LMAO.

Buddy the federal reserve is privately traded. The global elite behind this dont care about that, they want a recession so they can have a one world governemt and own the country. The 700B is being taken to weaken the economy and bush is saying its in trouble so he can casue the crisis hes predicting. My point was that no matter how you look at it your fked if you just keep playing along and dont stand up to this. You will be a slave and seem to be on your way already.
 
Why don't you look around and get your facts straight before more people realize you're a dumbshit.

Well theres a good chance that ive made mistakes, the general message is the same, dont just believe what you hear. I dont think you care about my point your too consumed with being right and hugging the spoon fed biased facts that got everyone here. George bush is a fear mongerer, end of story.
 
Buddy the federal reserve is privately traded. The global elite behind this dont care about that, they want a recession so they can have a one world governemt and own the country. The 700B is being taken to weaken the economy and bush is saying its in trouble so he can casue the crisis hes predicting. My point was that no matter how you look at it your fked if you just keep playing along and dont stand up to this. You will be a slave and seem to be on your way already.

What are YOU doing to not become a slave?

I keep my tinfoil hat on haha, those mutherf**kers will never get to me! :twisted:
 
I dont think you care about my point your too consumed with being right and hugging the spoon fed biased facts that got everyone here.
See this is a mis step big time right here. If someone has a different opinion than you... then we were spoon fed this. Although with the bias of the media and the strong words from the far far left, all the spoon feeding would be what you are regurgitating at the moment. This economic melt down was NOT the product of Bush, and this administration as you keep alluding to. No, in fact it was back in the days of carter, then good old billy bill clinton. Now we are feeling the effects, and it was all Bush's plan to turn the world into one big dictatorship? My God sally... where do we go from here?

Adams
 
What are YOU doing to not become a slave?

I keep my tinfoil hat on haha, those mutherf**kers will never get to me! :twisted:

Im not buying into it, i wont accept the branding and am attempting to inform others who are too comfy to believe that they are justly represented, and rather that their rights are being stolen as part of a global agenda by few.

tin foil can cause alzeimers when its burned and my little brain gets hot.
 
Fat cats huh? You mean people being threatened with foreclose and small businesses trying to get a loan? Yeah. This is NO bail out. Not in any sense of the word. The government will be BUYING securities. They will not be giving anyone any money. Read the ****ing bill already. Get your **** straight. The bill that will be rewritten or written anew will hold even more benefits for the people. Do you still not understand that the government will have a decent chance at SELLING all the assets it buys for PROFIT?!

I do not think the bill mentions the price to be paid for these assets. If it is the "hold to maturity" price then it will be above the mark to market price. I would highly doubt the government makes any money on this deal. They are not going to low ball the banks, because that causes further write downs, thus setting off neutron bombs in pretty much all the at-risk banks. You can suspend mark to market accounting, but then banking transparency goes from bad to worse. That is the what the bill on Monday proposed doing, you will see there is a clause about suspending FASB 157.

The great lie in all this is that these assets are not illiquid by nature, they are illiquid at the prices the banks have in their books. The banks have overvalued these assets, and do not want to face the music. Want proof? Look at the write downs JP Morgan and Citi took after their acquisitions of WaMu and Wachovia.

If you look at housing supply numbers, and think about just how crazy the prices were when these mortgages were originated, it is likely this toxic paper is pretty close to worthless. Plus we have no idea on the default rates of these mortgages as housing prices continue to decrease.

The conditions you describe are what happens when credit seizes up, this bill does not really address that problem. It provides the banks some breathing room, but there is no guarantee they will loan again. Incidentally, if you look at what the massive injection of fed liquidity has done to the LIBOR rate, you will see that banks are not going to lend to even each other if they don't have to.

Incidentally, since the Fed is providing so much liquidity it is disrupting the Libor, they are making the matters MUCH worse. Why?

"About 6 million U.S. mortgages, including almost all subprime home loans and 41 percent of prime ARMs, are linked to the London Interbank Offered Rate, or Libor, according to First American CoreLogic in Santa Ana, California."

It is almost like people want the bill to pass so they can they say, "Well that debate is for the historians." There are alternatives, the end of the world is not coming tomorrow.

If they want to set up some sort of market for these securities fine; do it like the RTC and acquire these assets for free after the banks go bankrupt.
 
Buddy the federal reserve is privately traded.
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. Banks give 3% of their capital to become members of the Fed. There is no trading, no selling no profiting.
The global elite behind this dont care about that
Almost 40 percent of banks in the US are members of the fed. So the bank down the street from you is gobal elite? I think not. One world government? End yourself.

The 700B is being taken
Taken from where? Where will this 700, and only 250bn initially, come from? Please educate us. I'm gonna guess you have no idea, though.

My point was that no matter how you look at it your fked if you just keep playing along and dont stand up to this.

Oh I'm ****ed huh? So when the bill goes through and I'm finally able to secure a student loan I'll be even more ****ed, right? How about my neighbors who have their mortgage bought out and interest rate lowered and fixed. I suppose they'll be more ****ed. Maybe my uncle with the small business will be more ****ed once the bill passes and he'll be able to attain a loan to expand his business and in turn hire more employees. I bet they'll all be ****ed, right?

Seriously dude, stop posting this ridiculous stuff. I'm calling you ****ing crazy and I'm liberal.


Doug- you're right, prices aren't posted. What will happen is institutions with junk will approach the treasury department with bids for their securities and the treasury will decide 1) If the price is reasonable 2) If the securities in question are salvageable and 3) How buying them up will affect the lending practices of the institution they are being bought from.

The firgure of 700 is just an amount of money that will be allocated for these purchases spread out over several years with only 250 being available immediately. As you said the maturity point for these assets is in question, but since most of the assets in questions are mortgages it is safe to say that in time they will surpass their original values. Profiting would just be a bonus. I read somewhere about what Paulson is hoping to pay on the dollar for these securities. I'll have to see if I can find it again.
 
Oh man.. the humanity... all this conspiricy theorizing is giving me a migraine. You all enjoy your discussion on this.

Adams
 
Do you still not understand that the government will have a decent chance at SELLING all the assets it buys for PROFIT?!

And the funny thing is, government will continue to get bigger, and they will continue to tax us to hell even more, even if they can get profits from these assets.

**** politicians, let them all burn in fire pits.
 
And the funny thing is, government will continue to get bigger, and they will continue to tax us to hell even more, even if they can get profits from these assets.

**** politicians, let them all burn in fire pits.

That's why a tax cut is being written into the new bill, right?

Foot, meet mouth.
 
That's why a tax cut is being written into the new bill, right?

Foot, meet mouth.

I haven't read the bill, so I have no clue.

I meant in the long-term. Even if they could sell the assets as profits, government is going to continue to get bigger and taxes will increase. It's inevitable. We will turn into a socialist state in the next 100 years.
 
I haven't read the bill, so I have no clue.

I meant in the long-term. Even if they could sell the assets as profits, government is going to continue to get bigger and taxes will increase. It's inevitable. We will turn into a socialist state in the next 100 years.

Thank God for my second amendment. :D

Adams
 
I think it's funny how you think you can predict the future.

I agree with him. Once you move toward Socialism by expanding government, you're on an almost irreversible course. Government begets more government.

Can you ever honestly envision a politician saying, "We're going to get rid of Medicare, Medicaid, Welfare, Social Security, the Postal Service, the Fed, the FDIC, Fannie and Freddie, the Farm Bill, shrink the size of our armed forces, and combine 90 Federal Law Enforcement Agencies?"

Most of those agencies were created in the past 80 years, yet they have so many jobs and such a large budget already dedicated to them that no matter what, they will not go away.
 
I agree with him. Once you move toward Socialism by expanding government, you're on an almost irreversible course. Government begets more government.

Can you ever honestly envision a politician saying, "We're going to get rid of Medicare, Medicaid, Welfare, Social Security, the Postal Service, the Fed, the FDIC, Fannie and Freddie, the Farm Bill, shrink the size of our armed forces, and combine 90 Federal Law Enforcement Agencies?"

Most of those agencies were created in the past 80 years, yet they have so many jobs and such a large budget already dedicated to them that no matter what, they will not go away.

All it takes is one popular candidate who knows how to act. Just ask Obama about that gimmick.
 
All it takes is one popular candidate who knows how to act. Just ask Obama about that gimmick.

The culture in America was fundamentally changed when FDR answered a depression by saying....I will give you jobs using taxpayer money. Until then, Americans were responsible for their own livelihood.

People expect politicians to provide for them now. They expect them to give them health care and national service jobs while paying for these expensive programs through debt and on the backs of those who earn their own livelihood. This is a fundamentally Socialist attitude. Once the attitude is spread enough, the infrastructure will follow.
 
For those who simply don't believe Republicans tried to regulate because most news orginizations refuses to show the facts, then watch yourself.


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Did the anyone actually watch Alex Jones's interview with Ron Paul? Its very clearly defined when he says "were having a depression or recession, theres no two ways about it its locked in by what the federal reserve did". Meaning this was pre meditated, and the "bail- out" is not the solution nor intended as a solution because the ball is already rolling. That means this was supposed to happen, much like many other things that continue to get excused.

Kristopher thank you for post #47 that video uses Ron Paul a world renound economist who sums up the problem and actual solutions, the people who did this dont want that, theres no global donminance in that horizon. Is Ron Paul ignorant and retarded too?
 
Rugger, Adams i am clearly in over my head with aspects of this conversation, admitted. But the main point stands, why is that so hard to believe, you can always split hairs find errors and gramatical fault, but its aparent theres somthing big afoot, thats all.
 
“Under the Federal Reserve Act, panics are scientifically created. The present panic is the first scientifically created one, worked out as we figure a mathematical equation.”
–Charles Lindbergh 1921
 
Right now I'm of the opinion that we should let the S.O.B.s burn to the ground and not spend another red cent on these maggots that got us into the mess. If they go bankrupt someone else better qualified to manage a financial institution will come in, seize the assets and things will eventually get back to normal.

Just like controlled burns of underbrush helps prevent forest fires of massive scale and pruning helps plants grow bigger and stronger producing more, we need to let these rotten banches of financial institutions die off so the rest that is left can grow and flourish instead of letting them keep leaching off everyone and draggin the whole system down.

Or to put it another way, if something is cancerous it needs to be cut off/be killed.

The only way I would support something like this is if these S.O.B.s were thrown in jail like Enron and WorldCom and the bailout money came with a price of heavy regulation and stipulations on what the companies could use it for, IE no more golden parachutes being funded by it.
 
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Ron Paul comments on the New World order, the attempts by globalists to create a One world government and how to fix the problems with losing civil liberties and getting out of the hole created by the current government.
 
Rep Michael Burgess appears on Alex Jones show and comments on the bail out. Part 2 of 3 click on video to go to youtube and watch the whole video.

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Part three gets really good at 7:00 when Marcy Kaptur (i think) tells congress like it is "we are constitutionally sworn to protect and defend this republic against all enemies foreign and domestic, and my friends there are enemies, we are told we will have a bill, a trillion dollar bill to review soon with less than twenty four hours and no regular hearings to try vote on this tar baby, the people pushing this deal are the same people ones who are responsible for the implosion on wall street, they were fraudulent then and fraudulent now. we should say no! to this deal , i ask my colleauges to join us at two o'clock in HC 8 to meet with some real experts who have done financial resolutions without putting the burden on the tax payer"
 
I think this whole thing sucks. I blame the lenders, the government, and

I blame the people who borrowed out of their means. If these people

lose their homes so be it, but when people who have done nothing

will suffer something has to be done. People who borrowed out of their

means should not benefit from it I don't care if they lose their houses.

Inflation is inevitable and an A.R.M. is not a good idea. duh. I work my

as s off everyday pay all my bills, rent, utilities, health insurance..... I

have debt and it sucks, but I pay it. If you can't pay it you don't keep it.

I can barely save money for a down on a home. Almost there though.

I mean that is the "American Dream" isn't it? Or is it another f*cking

slogan to keep the gears grinding? What happen to accountability,

hard work, saving money.... all that bull. If it is possible to eliminate

the buyout then I think we should do it and let the irresponsible

lenders and borrowers fry. Maybe if we didn't spend so much f*cking

money in Iraq it wouldn't be so bad right now. And gas is going down

figures those f*cking speculating profiteers.
 
I think this whole thing sucks. I blame the lenders, the government, and

I blame the people who borrowed out of their means. If these people

lose their homes so be it, but when people who have done nothing

will suffer something has to be done. People who borrowed out of their

means should not benefit from it I don't care if they lose their houses.

Inflation is inevitable and an A.R.M. is not a good idea. duh. I work my

as s off everyday pay all my bills, rent, utilities, health insurance..... I

have debt and it sucks, but I pay it. If you can't pay it you don't keep it.

I can barely save money for a down on a home. Almost there though.

I mean that is the "American Dream" isn't it? Or is it another f*cking

slogan to keep the gears grinding? What happen to accountability,

hard work, saving money.... all that bull. If it is possible to eliminate

the buyout then I think we should do it and let the irresponsible

lenders and borrowers fry. Maybe if we didn't spend so much f*cking

money in Iraq it wouldn't be so bad right now. And gas is going down

figures those f*cking speculating profiteers.
 
I like Ron Paul as much as the next guy, but the idealization of him is out of control
 
The economy as a whole is a reflection on consumer confidence. when there is little to no confidence, the consumers tend to buy less, spend less money, etc. that is the problem right now...because of the sub-prime rates (thank you mr. greenspan) a few years ago, there were too many loans that have defaulted because people could not afford to take the payments once the rates were adjusted (they were adjustable rate loans).

now that enough people have defaulted, buying "mortgage backed securities" is no longer considered a "safe" investment. so the investment banks that buy/sell these have no where to unload these worthless securities, unless they sell them at 20cents on the dollar.

hence Lehman going down the tubes. their assets were worth next to nothing, and they were unable to sell securities, and had no source of revenue...so they went bankrupt.

now, the government wants to spend 700 billion dollars to bail out other banks.

DO IT!

if nothing else, it will boost the confidence enough because it will inject liquidity into the market, and hopefully bring us out of our mild recession.

ooo, and if you are government, here's the silver lining...check that; gold lining.


The government is going to buy these unwanted securities at dirt cheap. As they become resolved (ie they start collecting payments on them) the value of the securities goes up as they are deemed a "safe" investment once again. the government will then be able to sell them off for 3 or 4 times what they paid for them. buy low, sell high...basic econ.
 
I think this whole thing sucks. I blame the lenders, the government, and

I blame the people who borrowed out of their means. If these people

lose their homes so be it, but when people who have done nothing

will suffer something has to be done. People who borrowed out of their

means should not benefit from it I don't care if they lose their houses.

Inflation is inevitable and an A.R.M. is not a good idea. duh. I work my

as s off everyday pay all my bills, rent, utilities, health insurance..... I

have debt and it sucks, but I pay it. If you can't pay it you don't keep it.

I can barely save money for a down on a home. Almost there though.

I mean that is the "American Dream" isn't it? Or is it another f*cking

slogan to keep the gears grinding? What happen to accountability,

hard work, saving money.... all that bull. If it is possible to eliminate

the buyout then I think we should do it and let the irresponsible

lenders and borrowers fry. Maybe if we didn't spend so much f*cking

money in Iraq it wouldn't be so bad right now. And gas is going down

figures those f*cking speculating profiteers.


this is a very narrow minded response to the problem and it reveals a sever lack of education on the subject...letting the lenders fry? why is there a lack of consumer confidence and a lack of liquidity in the market, driving the economy down? why did the DOW fall 777 points earlier this week? because the lenders are frying.

however, i agree, the borrowers should be accountable. there is nothing that can/will be done however. bailout is the only option at this point. it sucks NOW but wait until 3-5 years from now. read my post above and you'll see that the bailout is a necessary measure for this country's economic well being
 
Its not necessary for economic well being. The government never put 700 billion into the economy before and we've had a healthy economy for 230 years. Its a question of how much pain will you let the American people stomach to fix a problem. Just because something is easier doesn't mean its healthier.
 
do you understand the idea of the economy being a measure of consumer confidence and liquidity in the market (do you know what those terms mean?)? That being said, do you also understand what happened to the DOW when the senate voted down the bill? It dropped 777 points in a day!

More to my point, the government isnt handing out the money like its candy (or free samples of our favorite supps). The government is a business. When the government buys up $700 billion of "mortgage backed securities", it isnt going to write it off. when the CONSUMER CONFIDENCE goes back up in a year or 2 after the bailout, the government is going to sell the securities for 3 - 4 times what they paid for them.

How does a 1.4 - 2.1trillion dollar profit sound to the government in 2 years? I'd say that its an investment worth making.

The crisis we're in now is not a Wall Street problem, it is a "Main Street" problem, meaning that small businesses cannot get credit to finance their businesses. what happens when small business owners have to close and fire their employees?? They have no money to spend - no LIQUIDITY to add to the market.

No bailout is a bad move and i say it again; the bail out is NECESSARY FOR THE ECONOMIC WELL BEING OF THIS COUNTRY
 
Its not necessary for economic well being. The government never put 700 billion into the economy before and we've had a healthy economy for 230 years. Its a question of how much pain will you let the American people stomach to fix a problem. Just because something is easier doesn't mean its healthier.

PS...the government has already injected over 600 billion into the economy this year to help increase liquidity. :nono:
 
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