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OTC PCT Guide ...

stxnas said:
Toremifiene seems to be the most popular as of late. Nolva and clomid are earlier generation SERMS and have some sides associated with.

Does anybody know of any adverse sides associated with toremifene?
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My understanding is it is less toxic on the liver but it is still toxic:thumbsup:
 
Could someone prescribe an OTC PCT for IDS Mass Tabs. I have the Post Cycle Tabs and ZMA. I am having difficulty determining what is appropriate because I am not 100% sure what the Mass Tabs contain. I would also like to keep everything OTC. Because of my profession, I do not want to try and obtain anything prsecription.

Thanks in advance for any help offered.
 
What about taking IForce's Reversitol? It seems to have a PCT all in one. Directed as per week: 3/2/2/1

Amount Per Serving % Daily Value

Estrogen Modulation Matrix (EMM) 124mg *
6-Bromoandrostenedione
6-Etioallochol-1,4-Diene-3,17-Dione
Indole-3-Carbinol (L3C)

S.E.R.M. Matrix 500mg *
Trans-Resveratrol
Eurycoma Longifolia

* Percentage Daily Value not established.




Would this supplement be good enough for coming off a BOLD/Testabolin cycle?
 
jfrizzle said:
Could someone prescribe an OTC PCT for IDS Mass Tabs. I have the Post Cycle Tabs and ZMA. I am having difficulty determining what is appropriate because I am not 100% sure what the Mass Tabs contain. I would also like to keep everything OTC. Because of my profession, I do not want to try and obtain anything prsecription.

Thanks in advance for any help offered.
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I have been told that Mass Tabs are Superdrol. Also, that item has been pulled from the shelves of nutrition stores. I would not suggest an OTC PCT for Superdrol. I was lucky enough not to develop any nasty sides in the past when not using a PCT, but I lost a lot of the gains that I achieved while "on"
 
I appreciate your help. I have been reading mixed reviews of the Mass Tabs. Some people say they are Superdrol. Some people say they are crap. As far as I know, they are still available. They just require a little bit of searching to find.

If you do not recommend an OTC PCT, then what do you recommend.

I was thinking:

SERM: Nolvadex 40/30/20/10.
Test Boost: ZMA or possibly Jungle Warfare
Estrogen Block: 6-OXO

Do I need an AI
 
jfrizzle said:
I appreciate your help. I have been reading mixed reviews of the Mass Tabs. Some people say they are Superdrol. Some people say they are crap. As far as I know, they are still available. They just require a little bit of searching to find.

If you do not recommend an OTC PCT, then what do you recommend.

I was thinking:

SERM: Nolvadex 40/30/20/10.
Test Boost: ZMA or possibly Jungle Warfare
Estrogen Block: 6-OXO

Do I need an AI
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An AI would be best used during the cycle.
also you said no scripts, but mention Nolva. Tamoxifene citrate is a script only.
 
a few questions. is it a source check asking to find serms?
two insead of serms wouldnt the realthings like.. nolvadex,lethro,a-dex, be sufficant?
 
IceT said:
a few questions. is it a source check asking to find serms?
two insead of serms wouldnt the realthings like.. nolvadex,lethro,a-dex, be sufficant?
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At 18 you should not be worried about serms. Good luck bro:thumbsup:
 
dmangiarelli said:
Thanks guys. To answer the dosing questions a general scheme would be like this

Weeks 1-4 PCS/I3C/ZMA PCS would be dosed 2 caps in the morning and 2 in the evening preferably 8-12 hours apart. I3C would be dosed 400-600 mgs every day and ZMA at bedtime as directed on teh bottle.

Weeks 4-7 6-oxo This would begin high at 400 mgs and taper down to 100 in the last week. 400/300/200/100

Weeks 3-6 Lean Xtreme or any other cort blocker you like at 3 caps every day.

You can substitute your favorite products for whatever I used. I used those products because I know they work for me but I wrote this as an overall guide not an end all be all PCT to be followed to the letter.
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Question about the wording here. Are you counting each week as a week IE: week 1 is week 1, week 2 is week 2 , week 3 is week 3, week 4 is week 4
I know that sounds like a weird question but i ask because if that is right then during week 4 you would be taking every single item above at the same time since everything overlaps week 4.Is that right?

1 other question about the ZMA,It says to take on a empty stomach. I always have a big a## protein about 9:30 PM and hit the bed around 10:00. Should i move that shake earlier or later so it dont mess with the ZMA that i need to take at 9:00PM.

Thanks for any help.
 
sw bill said:
Question about the wording here. Are you counting each week as a week IE: week 1 is week 1, week 2 is week 2 , week 3 is week 3, week 4 is week 4
I know that sounds like a weird question but i ask because if that is right then during week 4 you would be taking every single item above at the same time since everything overlaps week 4.Is that right?

1 other question about the ZMA,It says to take on a empty stomach. I always have a big a## protein about 9:30 PM and hit the bed around 10:00. Should i move that shake earlier or later so it dont mess with the ZMA that i need to take at 9:00PM.

Thanks for any help.
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Alot of times you would overlap these types of things in pct:thumbsup:
 
sw bill said:
Question about the wording here. Are you counting each week as a week IE: week 1 is week 1, week 2 is week 2 , week 3 is week 3, week 4 is week 4
I know that sounds like a weird question but i ask because if that is right then during week 4 you would be taking every single item above at the same time since everything overlaps week 4.Is that right?

1 other question about the ZMA,It says to take on a empty stomach. I always have a big a## protein about 9:30 PM and hit the bed around 10:00. Should i move that shake earlier or later so it dont mess with the ZMA that i need to take at 9:00PM.

Thanks for any help.
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Yes in week 4 you take a buttload of supps ...

Calcium blocks the absoption of ZMA so either move the shake up or take the ZMA an hour before you take the shake.
 
LOL @ buttload...that's my favorite scientific term, particularly when used when saying, "metric buttload" :lol:

Glad to see that you are doing better Dman!
 
Curious if this PCT protocol would be suitable for a low dose injectable test cycle or would the AI have to be introduced at the beginning of Wk1?
 
corsaking said:
PCT seems to have been covered well enough (4pages) let talk about ON CYCLE support
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Cycle Support at the board store.



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/thread :)


CROWLER
 
zendog said:
Curious if this PCT protocol would be suitable for a low dose injectable test cycle or would the AI have to be introduced at the beginning of Wk1?
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you need to pay attention to your body to figure this one out. I did not need an AI until week 4. I ran Nolva to get in check and a-dex to keep it that way. worked like a charm but lightly limited my growth. Estrogen is not always a bad thing.
 
Weeks 1-4 PCS/I3C/ZMA PCS would be dosed 2 caps in the morning and 2 in the evening preferably 8-12 hours apart. I3C would be dosed 400-600 mgs every day and ZMA at bedtime as directed on teh bottle.

Weeks 4-7 6-oxo This would begin high at 400 mgs and taper down to 100 in the last week. 400/300/200/100

Weeks 3-6 Lean Xtreme or any other cort blocker you like at 3 caps every day.
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Why wait until week 4 for the 6-oxo? Couldn't you start in week 3 (or 2 for that matter) for a 6 week PCT?
 
Dman,

Would you suggest your original 7 week PCT for a 3-4 week cycle of Testanate50? If not, what do you think would be a good PCT?


:think:
 
Istrike300 said:
Dman,

Would you suggest your original 7 week PCT for a 3-4 week cycle of Testanate50? If not, what do you think would be a good PCT?


:think:
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If you run testanate50 you will need more than a OTC PCT. That is 3 steriods in one and SERM would be a must.:thumbsup:
 
D'man is out of commission for a while.

He had back surgery a while back and unfortunately it didn't really do the job. He is in some REALLY bad pain, can only sit at the computer for a few minutes at a time.

I am sure we all wish him a VERY speedy recovery.


CROWLER
 
Istrike300 said:
Dman,

Would you suggest your original 7 week PCT for a 3-4 week cycle of Testanate50? If not, what do you think would be a good PCT?


:think:
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I get the impression from what you are asking that all this is new territory for you . I may be wrong but if you have taken steroids or designer steroids before PCT should be common knowledge to you .

If you are new to designer steroids or relatively new , why are you even contemplating this product--quote Combines Superdrol,Phera Plex and Finigenix Magnum all in one!

You should be starting with a milder one but some of us want to run before we can walk.Your liver is going to be under a great deal of stress and you should take steps to look after it.

Why dont you try to purchase steroids .They have been around since the 1960s .They have been tried and tested both by the medical profession and body builders for years. All these designer steroids are relatively new. No one knows where there sourced from ,how theyve been made . if any impurities are in them and any feed back is purely word of mouth.

Look on a suitable web site and you will see steroid cycles for novices, intermediates , and advanced with everything you need for follow up.

Ive just read this under product description • See incredible strength gains
• You will feel your veins bulging and running like a road map through your arms.
• Your muscles will expand to new measurements.
• You will experience rapid muscle gains
Have you really been sucked in by this ?

Save your money and your liver -look after your health .Remember a body builders physique is purely cosmetic, its whats going on inside that counts
 
dmangiarelli said:
[size=+1]Post Cycle Therapy - Why you need to do it[/size]
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First off, a wish for dmangiarelli to a speedy recovery!! Get well soon, man!

I'm looking for advice on a PCT. Make that... an EXIT strategy from steroids. I gave it a run, saw some good gains, but I think I'll stick with natural methods. Now I just need to know a safe way out.

I read your OTC PCT guide. Let me describe what I have right now. I've been taking a stack of Epithin E (which, I understand is basically Havoc - 2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol) and Tokkyo Test (androsta-1-ene-3b-ol, 1-one) for a few weeks and am getting near the end of this cycle.

I picked up Lean Extreme, ZMA, 6-oxo, and Indole-3-Carbinol and have those on hand. My rep also sold me (maybe oversold me?) something from ALR industries called "Restore" "Male Optimization matrix" which may or may not be junk.

At any rate, I am wanting to see if you would recommend a PCT for the Epithin+Tokkyo Test stack and a graceful exit strategy.

In one of your posts you recommended I3C, ZMA and the 6-oxo for Havoc.

What combination would you recommend (and is there anything else I should pick up)? How many weeks, and what would I take per week?


Thanks in advance, you have a great guide, I probably just need custom help.

- Ben -
 
Tanboy,

Honestly I don't know if Don will even be able to read this. Last I talked to him he couldn't even sit for 5 minutes at a computer. Not sure how or if he is even able to work.

Best wishes for Don, he REALLY gave a lot of good help to a lot of people.


CROWLER
 
Inhibit E is an aromatse inhibitor. That will take place of 6-OXO
 
thanks man, i needed some info like this. Just starting a tren/halo cycle. now i got my pct covered. with all the products out there, i was having a little confusion on selecting the products i need for my pct. Do a pct need to be run a full 8 weeks?
 
This thread is misleading. i3C is antiandrogenic why would u use that in pct?

Screening of synthetic and plant-derived compounds for (anti)estrogenic and (anti)androgenic activities.

AuthorsBovee TF, et al. Show all Journal
Anal Bioanal Chem. 2008 Feb;390(4):1111-9. Epub 2008 Jan 11.

Affiliation
Department of Safety & Health, RIKILT-Institute of Food Safety, P.O. Box 230, 6700 AE, Wageningen, The Netherlands. [email protected]

Abstract
Recently we constructed yeast cells that either express the human estrogen receptor alpha or the human androgen receptor in combination with a consensus ERE or ARE repeat in the promoter region of a green fluorescent protein (yEGFP) read-out system. These bioassays were proven to be highly specific for their cognate agonistic compounds. In this study the value of these yeast bioassays was assessed for analysis of compounds with antagonistic properties. Several pure antagonists, selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs) and plant-derived compounds were tested. The pure antiestrogens ICI 182,780 and RU 58668 were also classified as pure ER antagonists in the yeast estrogen bioassay and the pure antiandrogen flutamide was also a pure AR antagonist in the yeast androgen bioassay. The plant-derived compounds flavone and guggulsterone displayed both antiestrogenic and antiandrogenic activities, while 3,3'-diindolylmethane (DIM) and equol combined an estrogenic mode of action with an antiandrogenic activity. Indol-3-carbinol (I3C) only showed an antiandrogenic activity. Coumestrol, genistein, naringenin and 8-prenylnaringenin were estrogenic and acted additively, while the plant sterols failed to show any effect. Although hormonally inactive, in vitro and in vivo metabolism of the aforementioned plant sterols may still lead to the formation of active metabolites in other test systems.

PMID 18188547 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Full text: Springer
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OTC PCT is dumb to begin with unless you do a very light cycle (low dose, short cycle, pulse, easy compound)

Serms are easy to get.

Also DAA is a must in OTC PCT.
 
bigwhiteguy29 said:
OTC PCT is dumb to begin with unless you do a very light cycle (low dose, short cycle, pulse, easy compound)

Serms are easy to get.

Also DAA is a must in OTC PCT.
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Agreed
 
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