idea for superdrol gyno rebound

Ziquor said:
15 pounds off 10mg Superdrol? That's awesome. People should realize more isn't always better. Pantera ran 10mg every day and gained 10-12 pounds. I don't recall him having any sides at all at that dose either.
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Yeah, I am a huge advocate of low dose SD. My first SD cycle was 10mg also and I put on around 12-13lbs.

I'm also a huge advocate of taking around 6 months off between cycles. :)
 
aquanutz said:
Yeah, I am a huge advocate of low dose SD. My first SD cycle was 10mg also and I put on around 12-13lbs.

I'm also a huge advocate of taking around 6 months off between cycles. :)
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I agree 100% about 6 months (or more). I've taken 6 years off so I'm way overdue...
 
aquanutz said:
Yeah, I am a huge advocate of low dose SD. My first SD cycle was 10mg also and I put on around 12-13lbs.

I'm also a huge advocate of taking around 6 months off between cycles. :)
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on low dose SD cycles, did you split the 10mg cap or what, i thought it had a 12 hour half life or something?
 
Ziquor said:
Nolvadex and Clomid are extremely similar but Nolva is stronger. I'd always use Nolva over Clomid. PA has GREAT chemistry knowledge but understand he pushes AI's alot because he profits a lot off them. Tamoxifen or Clomid are great after a cycle of Superdrol, Toremifene may be even better. Most of the delayed gyno issues came from those who used ATD during PCT. ATD (Inhibit-E) is what you need to stay away from after a cycle of Superdrol. It's NOT needed in a PCT of Superdrol and can cause serious issues (delayed gyno for one). It's overkill and causes too much estrogen suppression, thus creating severe estrogen rebound weeks later.
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so, how would you pct SD or PP?

please and thank you.
 
Ziquor said:
Depending on the dose/length, Nolva 30/20/20/10, a natural test booster like Diesel Test HC, a cort blocker on day 10-14, and any other natural supps with the exception of an AI. JMO.
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How would L-Tor work instead of Nolva? 90/60/60/30

Why do you choose DTH? Would Activate Xtreme work?

LX or Xlean I presume.

Liv 52

EFA's

Animal Pak on Training days....

whatcha think?
 
Here's my take on superdrol. Keep in mind this from personal experience. Anytime an AI was used as part of PCT, there was a slight estrogen rebound. When a SERM only was used, PCT was flawless. No test boosters, no cort blockers. Only a SERM.
 
The_Reverend said:
Here's my take on superdrol. Keep in mind this from personal experience. Anytime an AI was used as part of PCT, there was a slight estrogen rebound. When a SERM only was used, PCT was flawless. No test boosters, no cort blockers. Only a SERM.
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So,,,,,,,,, 4 weeks......just serm...........nothing else?
 
Kristofer68SS said:
So,,,,,,,,, 4 weeks......just serm...........nothing else?
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Yes sir. Nolva tabs at 40,20,20, and 10. This was my cycle about 3 months ago. I also ran it like this last year with perfect results. Prior to running a SERM only, I used various AIs in my PCT and always ended up with problems a couple months down the road.
 
Kristofer68SS said:
How would L-Tor work instead of Nolva? 90/60/60/30

Why do you choose DTH? Would Activate Xtreme work?

LX or Xlean I presume.

Liv 52

EFA's

Animal Pak on Training days....

whatcha think?
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DTH was just an example. A nice Trib + ZMA combo has worked nicely for me in the past. As for EFA's no doubt. I didn't mention EFAs or the stuff I basically take daily like Amino's, Fish Oil, Flax, Protein, & a joint formula.

With S-Drol I'd probably run Liv.52 + Milk Thistle afterwards. Vitamin C dosed 2-4 grams daily works as a good cort blocker too. The Torem dose you have looks ideal IMO & it has some advantages over Nolva which's the basis of why it was created. Less toxicity, better lipid profile, etc.
 
The_Reverend said:
Here's my take on superdrol. Keep in mind this from personal experience. Anytime an AI was used as part of PCT, there was a slight estrogen rebound. When a SERM only was used, PCT was flawless. No test boosters, no cort blockers. Only a SERM.
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With Trib & ZMA it's unlikely they'd supress estrogen & create a rebound. But it never hurts to be on the safe side.
 
thanks gentlemen for the responses.

I am not a fan of nolva.

The raves for L-tor have been off the hook..I have a bottle of that.

I have another question........Couldnt Clomid used for the serm instead of Tor or Nolva?

i know they have similiar yet different functions, but i really think clomid is a better choice for SD or PP...... Say like a 2 week blast. 100mg for 3 days, the 50mg for the duration to OTC PCT.

Then jump on my fav stack.

PCS
AX
LX
ZMA


The above is not cheap, but very effective. FO SHO!


Did i mention i like clomid? :)
 
Kristofer68SS said:
thanks gentlemen for the responses.

I am not a fan of nolva.

The raves for L-tor have been off the hook..I have a bottle of that.

I have another question........Couldnt Clomid used for the serm instead of Tor or Nolva?

i know they have similiar yet different functions, but i really think clomid is a better choice for SD or PP...... Say like a 2 week blast. 100mg for 3 days, the 50mg for the duration to OTC PCT.

Then jump on my fav stack.

PCS
AX
LX
ZMA


The above is not cheap, but very effective. FO SHO!


Did i mention i like clomid? :)
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I've used Toremefine before with good results. However, recent purchases proved to be bunk product so I went with a script for Nolva from my doc. Never went the Clomid route since Nolva has a higher affinity for binding with estrogen receptors in the breasts and less sides from what I hear. I may try it in the future though.
 
Guys, let me throw this out there please. I have toremifene (homemade caps from bulk) and nolva tabs (Rx type, NOT homemade). How do you feel about running both, just at reduced dosages?

Why do this? The bulk Torem. MAY BE bunk.....I have no evidence of this, but just covering my bases. To take both Torem. and Tamox would be "insurance" so-to-speak if one of the products were bunk.

Ok? Yes/No
How would you dose if you said "Yes". :)

Thanks and excellent thread!!!!
 
papapumpsd said:
Guys, let me throw this out there please. I have toremifene (homemade caps from bulk) and nolva tabs (Rx type, NOT homemade). How do you feel about running both, just at reduced dosages?

Why do this? The bulk Torem. MAY BE bunk.....I have no evidence of this, but just covering my bases. To take both Torem. and Tamox would be "insurance" so-to-speak if one of the products were bunk.

Ok? Yes/No
How would you dose if you said "Yes". :)

Thanks and excellent thread!!!!
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That's a tough one. Running two SERMS is overkill and I've never done it so I really won't be able to give you solid advice. If you have RX Nolva, why don't you just run that since there's no chance of it being bunk? Its not like Toremefine is that superior to Nolva anyways.
 
The_Reverend said:
That's a tough one. Running two SERMS is overkill and I've never done it so I really won't be able to give you solid advice. If you have RX Nolva, why don't you just run that since there's no chance of it being bunk? Its not like Toremefine is that superior to Nolva anyways.
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Well, the Nolva is "Rx" meaning it's in actual packaging. It's not derived from a Rx though. Know what I mean? *nudge, nudge*!

Also, I'm taking Epistane...I know that this is a Superdrol thread....sorry if I'm side-tracking it. It's just a very good thread :)
 
papapumpsd said:
Well, the Nolva is "Rx" meaning it's in actual packaging. It's not derived from a Rx though. Know what I mean? *nudge, nudge*!

Also, I'm taking Epistane...I know that this is a Superdrol thread....sorry if I'm side-tracking it. It's just a very good thread :)
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Oh I'm aware of what you're getting at. I'm just disappointed more people don't look into that form of PCT. Its leaps and bounds better than the liquid crap.

I've used Epi in the past with decent results. I was stuck using bunk liquid Toremefine and my PCT was a disaster. I would assume that you would be fine with a SERM only PCT for that cycle, too. Perhaps you can even consider using a low dose AI after your 4 week PCT. I'd love to recommend Formestane but that hard to come by these days. Maybe 6-OXO or even the Extreme version. Too many damn choices. :think:
 
The_Reverend said:
Oh I'm aware of what you're getting at. I'm just disappointed more people don't look into that form of PCT. Its leaps and bounds better than the liquid crap.

I've used Epi in the past with decent results. I was stuck using bunk liquid Toremefine and my PCT was a disaster. I would assume that you would be fine with a SERM only PCT for that cycle, too. Perhaps you can even consider using a low dose AI after your 4 week PCT. I'd love to recommend Formestane but that hard to come by these days. Maybe 6-OXO or even the Extreme version. Too many damn choices. :think:
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Yes, I may run an AI after the SERM...dual-taper the AI. I used 6-oxo in the past with good results. I will prob. just use 6-ox if I use and AI after SERM. I also will use Diesel Test Hardcore along w/SERM.

BTW, I'll just use Torem and if I feel anything funny happening, I'll throw in some Nolva. ;) Thanks for your help brutha!

-Papa!-
 
papapumpsd said:
Yes, I may run an AI after the SERM...dual-taper the AI. I used 6-oxo in the past with good results. I will prob. just use 6-ox if I use and AI after SERM. I also will use Diesel Test Hardcore along w/SERM.

BTW, I'll just use Torem and if I feel anything funny happening, I'll throw in some Nolva. ;) Thanks for your help brutha!

-Papa!-
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No problem man. Good luck with your recovery. :)
 
The_Reverend said:
I've used Toremefine before with good results. However, recent purchases proved to be bunk product so I went with a script for Nolva from my doc. Never went the Clomid route since Nolva has a higher affinity for binding with estrogen receptors in the breasts and less sides from what I hear. I may try it in the future though.
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PM source of L-tor and date purchased please.
 
We have a couple different views on this.
1. SERM only, no AI
2. SERM and last week of PCT start AI (taper down)

Obviously run supp. supplements in addition to above. I'll probably be running SD in about 3 weeks. I'll keep reading up to see which opinion seems to be most popular/proven. Last thing I need is something popping up 5 months after a cycle.
 
I ran nolva at 40,40,40,20,20,20,20,/20/20/10 alongside DTH and tapered p-5-p down each week from 150mg, to keep prolactin in check. ZERO issues months after my phera/SD bridge cycle. :) Superdrol shuts you down pretty hard, so to the person who posted about using clomid, It'd be a great idea to use 50mg every night before bed for the first 2 weeks, alongside your other SERM of choice. Clomid is pointless to use after the first 2 weeks for HPTA up regulation purposes.
 
bassgod272 said:
I ran nolva at 40,40,40,20,20,20,20,/20/20/10 alongside DTH and tapered p-5-p down each week from 150mg, to keep prolactin in check. ZERO issues months after my phera/SD bridge cycle. :) Superdrol shuts you down pretty hard, so to the person who posted about using clomid, It'd be a great idea to use 50mg every night before bed for the first 2 weeks, alongside your other SERM of choice. Clomid is pointless to use after the first 2 weeks for HPTA up regulation purposes.
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since when did clomid quit working after 2 weeks?

probably just as pointless as the p-5-p........ so many different opinions on what works and what doesnt. talk about a clusterphuck.

I just read another thread stating B6 and p-5-p were pointless and to use L-dopa instead.....for prolactin issues...

lol......uncle uncle, i give, i give....

ill take my chances with clomid/ldex, hasnt failed me in the past. yes, i had bloowork. 1 month after pct of test E cycle.( not sure i would use the ldex with SD though)
 
Kristofer68SS said:
since when did clomid quit working after 2 weeks?

probably just as pointless as the p-5-p........ so many different opinions on what works and what doesnt. talk about a clusterphuck.

I just read another thread stating B6 and p-5-p were pointless and to use L-dopa instead.....for prolactin issues...

lol......uncle uncle, i give, i give....

ill take my chances with clomid/ldex, hasnt failed me in the past. yes, i had bloowork. 1 month after pct of test E cycle.( not sure i would use the ldex with SD though)
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:toofunny: UNSUBBED
 
bassgod272 said:
:toofunny: UNSUBBED
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With all due respect.

Same ol bass. Above anyone with any indifference.

Thank you. Once again your too good to explain your all mighty pct and how it is proven to work for everyone for any cycle.

Why must you be this way?


Clomid and Nolva are drugs designed for women(fertility and breast cancer, respectively). To say your an expert of these drugs in the male or female arena is just ridiculous.

IMO. These drugs have 95% of there experience use, with injectable steroids.......Not this OTC designer shite.

In which case, a general rule of thumb would be
Clomid = PCT- to restore nutz
Nolva= Anti-E- to stop titties-------not always the case with progestins..........

how come the superdrol for dummies write up states to use RXT or 6-OXO.....i thought AI's were a no-no.

what gives?

We really need more SD users to step up and give up the goods on there cycles and post cycles.......... 100 or more.
 
Kristofer68SS said:
With all due respect.

Same ol bass. Above anyone with any indifference.

Thank you. Once again your too good to explain your all mighty pct and how it is proven to work for everyone for any cycle.

Why must you be this way?


Clomid and Nolva are drugs designed for women(fertility and breast cancer, respectively). To say your an expert of these drugs in the male or female arena is just ridiculous.

IMO. These drugs have 95% of there experience use, with injectable steroids.......Not this OTC designer shite.

In which case, a general rule of thumb would be
Clomid = PCT- to restore nutz
Nolva= Anti-E- to stop titties-------not always the case with progestins..........

how come the superdrol for dummies write up states to use RXT or 6-OXO.....i thought AI's were a no-no.

what gives?

We really need more SD users to step up and give up the goods on there cycles and post cycles.......... 100 or more.
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OK I MUST come back to defend myself. FIRST OFF, I am above NOBODY. I have told you MANY times the protocol I have recommended was for FVCKIN SUPERDROL ONLY!!! NOT ANY DAMN CYCLE!! READ WHAT I SAY AND COMPREHEND IT NEXT TIME! DO not tell me what SERMS are, I work in a pharmacy EVERYDAY and dispense these same drugs EVERYDAY. I have read numerous CLINICAL TRIALS about these medications. Do a little research and ask ANY experienced member. They will tell you that clomid should only be used during the first 2 weeks of your PCT if you are using it for a quicker recovery and to jump start the HPTA.

I refuse to tell you why because you keep asking and going by what other "bro scientists" tell you. There is NO SUCH THING as a one size fits all PCT. EveryBODY is different. My protocol simply covers ALL the bases. Estro rebound, prolactin, HPTA up regulation, etc. You told me it was ridiculous in another thread, how the hell is it ridiculous to RESEARCH MANY logs and COMPARE results? Seeing what products people used, their doses, duration used, etc, and come up with the actual cause the delayed gyno? THEN after we now know why it happens, do more RESEARCH into what products will best suit our needs. This is common sense and common practice amongst fellow bber's here at AM.

You cannot learn, teach, and lead when people REFUSE to listen and use their head. YOU are the one who thinks you know everythng, yet YOU are the one asking al the questions? You are asked for a PCT, I gave you one that covered every possible issue that could arise, and you dismissed it as garbage. That's your problem, not mine. That SD for dummies thread was created back in the day when delayed gyno was never even heard of. None of this shyt occurred with AX SD and Designer Supps SD. Now the "clones" are out, people are having issues left and right. I HAVE stepped up and told you what worked for ME. Do research and read logs, nd you'll see what HAS WORKED for others as well. Rant over.
 
SD is a strong AI itself, and it also suppresses prolactin. Since it suppresses estro so much, and shuts you down so bad, an AI (IMO and from my experience) should not be used in PCT. You will only suppress estro even further. Then after PCT is over and your SERM is discontinued, your body will go crazy on estro production to compensate for the prolonged suppression. Hence using an AI AFTER PCT, to PREVENT THE REBOUND. Some may need this, some may be fine with a SERM only PCT. Everyone reacts differently to estro levels. KNOW YOUR BODY. Prolactin is suppressed while on cycle, so use B6/P-5-P, L-Dopa, or a combo of the 2 to keep that in check. Start with a high dose and taper down each week to be sure you don't suppress that even further and cause a prolactin rebound later on. That can ALSO cause gyno. I used this exact protocol myself, aside from the AI AFTER PCT. I used Tamox, DTH, and P-5-P. I have ZERO gyno months later. I have a semi-low bf% and aside from other factors, that helps my body to deal with estro better than others. WHAT WORKS FOR ME MAY NOT WORK FOR YOU. KNOW YOUR BODY! I've told you this before, and it makes PERFECT SENSE. Yet you said I was full of shyt. Either read and THINK, or don't listen to what I say. DO NOT tell me I don't know what i'm doing and/or talking about because again, I DO RESEARCH and I DO NOT have gyno from SD.
 
I respect your words bass, i really do.

I may come off as an arse, but i really do mean well.

I am here to learn. Its just very hard to weed through it all.

Then you open up pandora's box. Clones and Originals........

Im banging my head bro.

I will shut up and listen more......

..

..

..

So for the record,,,,,,,,,,,,,NO AI?
 
Kristofer68SS said:
I respect your words bass, i really do.

I may come off as an arse, but i really do mean well.

I am here to learn. Its just very hard to weed through it all.

Then you open up pandora's box. Clones and Originals........

Im banging my head bro.

I will shut up and listen more......

..

..

..

So for the record,,,,,,,,,,,,,NO AI?
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If you DO decide to use an AI, use it AFTER you drop the SERM. I know, I know, more than a 4 week PCT sounds dumb, but the delayed gyno pops up MONTHS after PCT has ended. Running an AI like 6-OXO would be great since it CONTROLS estro, and doesn't annihilate it all together. Start high and taper the dose down by about 100mg each week. Doing this controls the estro and lets your body get back to normal on its own, during what would usually be the "rebound" period. I made a possibly dumb choice, lol, but I actually ran MMV2 after my PCT. It is an AI and a very weak ph itself(convertsto DHT) I didn't run a strict AI per se, but did run that. It worked though. I did it to gain a little more strength and drop some bf after the cycle. The choice is yours bro...Just don't use an AI DURING the actual PCT, you'll regret it.
 
bassgod272 said:
There is only ONE place that sells L-Tor by that exact name, and it DEF is NOT bunk. He got it somewhere else I am sure.
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I know exactly where that L-Tor came from. I've never had a problem with any of their stuff. You def. know what you're talking about on these PCT questions.
 
Okay then. As far as the AI theory goes.

Is this pct rubbish then? It looks good on paper I suppose.

Week 1,2,3 - a "good dose" of a serm (tamox)
Week 4 - serm, plus an AI
Week 5,6,7 - AI, plus a SHBG binding compound

Are we talking Ldex or 6-oxo.....there is a difference. either way, i presume the dosages taper down......on all accounts.

Nothing about b6 or p-5-p though...

This is PA's recommend SD pct.....

See what i am saying Bass...........so many different guys stating pct's..........
 
If all things were equal like cost, quality of the meds, etc. I'd use Toremifene 1st, then Nolvadex as a close 2nd, and Clomid as my last choice. All 3 are very similar. Toremifene was originally created as an analog of Tamoxifen with the goal being to create a gentler, slightly less toxic version of Tamoxifen.

And with Clomid, I think many people assume Clomid and Tamoxifen are different since the companies who released them marketed them towards different uses. But in reality they're almost identical and work the exact same way - only Tamoxifen is more effective and at lower doses to boot.

I think Peter Van Mol sums it up well:


While practically similar compounds in structure, few people ever really consider Clomid and Nolva to be similar. Its not just a common myth in steroid circles, but even in the medical community. This misconception originates from their completely different uses. Nolvadex is most commonly used for the treatment of breast cancer in women, while clomid is generally considered a fertility aid. In bodybuilding circles, from day one, clomid has generally been used as post-cycle therapy and Nolvadex as an anti-estrogen.

But as I intend to demonstrate this is in essence the same. I believe the myth to have originated because Nolva is clearly a more powerful anti-estrogen, and the people selling clomid needed another angle to sell the stuff, so it was mostly used as a post-cycle aid. But few users really understand how clomid (and also Nolvadex, logically) works to bring back natural testosterone in the body after the conclusion of a cycle of androgenic anabolic steroids. After a cycle is over, the level of androgens in the body drop drastically. The body compensates with an overproduction of estrogen to keep steroid levels up. Estrogen as well inhibits the production of natural testosterone, and in the period between the return of natural testosterone and the end of a cycle, a lot of mass is lost. So its in everybody's best interest to bring back natural test as soon as humanly possible. Clomid and Nolvadex will reduce the post-cycle estrogen, so that a steroid deficiency is constated and the hypothalamus is stimulated to regenerate natural testosterone production in the body. That's basically how the mechanism works, nothing more, nothing less.

Both compounds are structurally alike, classified as triphenylethylenes. Nolvadex is clearly the stronger component of the two as it can achieve better results in decreasing overall estrogen with 20-40 mg a day, than clomid can in doses of 100-150 mg a day. A noteworthy difference. Triphenylethylenes are very mild estrogens that do not exert a lot, if any activity at the estrogen receptor, but are still highly attracted to it. As such they will occupy the receptor and keep it from binding estrogens. This means they do not actively work to reduce estrogen in the body like Proviron, Viratase or arimidex would (by competing for the aromatase enzyme), but that it blocks the receptor so that any estrogen in the body is basically inert, because it has no receptor to bind to.

This has advantages and disadvantages. The disadvantage is that when use is discontinued, the estrogen level is still the same and new problems will develop much sooner. The advantage is that it works much faster and has results sooner than with an aromatase blocker like Proviron or arimidex. Therefor, when problems such as gynocomastia occur during a cycle of steroids one will usually start 20 mg/day of Nolva or 100 mg/day of clomid straight away, in conjunction with some Proviron or arimidex. The proviron or arimidex will actively reduce estrogen while the clomid or Nolvadex will solve your ongoing problem straight away. This way, when use is discontinued there is no immediate rebound.

So which one should you use? Well personally, I'd have to say Nolvadex. Both as an on-cycle anti-estrogen and a post-cycle therapy. As an anti-estrogen its simply much stronger, demonstrated by the fact that better results are obtained with 20-40 mg than with 100-150 mg of clomid. For post-cycle, this plays a key role as well. It deactivates rebound estrogen much faster and more effective. But most importantly, Nolvadex has a direct influence on bringing back natural testosterone, where as clomid may actually have a slight negative influence. The reason being that Tamoxifen (as in Nolvadex) seems to increase the responsiveness of LH (luteinizing hormone) to GnRH (gonadtropin releasing hormone), whereas clomid seems to decrease the responsiveness a bit1.

Another noteworthy fact about Nolvadex is that it acts more potently as an estrogen in the liver. As you remember, I mentioned that clomiphene and tamoxifen are basically weak estrogens. Well, tamoxifen is apparently still quite potent in the liver. This offers us the positive benefits of this hormone in the liver, while avoiding its negative effects elsewhere in the body. As such Nolvadex can have a very positive impact on negative cholesterol levels2 in the body, and therefore too should be considered a better choice than clomid. It will not solve the problem of bad cholesterol levels during Steroid use, but will help to contain the problem to a larger degree.

Another reason why I promote the use of Nolvadex over Clomid post-cycle (as if being 3-4 times stronger and having more of a direct effect on restoring natural test wasn't enough) is because it's a lot safer. Not just because it improves lipid profiles, but also because it simply doesn't have the intrinsic side-effects that Clomid has. Clomid causes more acne for sure, but that's mainly because you need to use a 3-4 times higher dose. But Clomid seems to also affect the eyesight. Long-term clomid therapy causes irreversible changes in eyesight3 in users. Irreversible. For me that alone is reason enough to prefer Nolvadex.
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That's also what I'm wondering. I was going to use A-dex as my AI to start at the end of the SERM (Torem). Do you need a basic OTC or a real AI? As far as the AI theory goes. I was going to follow something like you posted here. It seems to make sense. Start coming back without the AI and control everything near the end with it.
Kristofer68SS said:
Is this pct rubbish then? It looks good on paper I suppose.

Week 1,2,3 - a "good dose" of a serm (tamox)
Week 4 - serm, plus an AI
Week 5,6,7 - AI, plus a SHBG binding compound

Are we talking Ldex or 6-oxo.....there is a difference. either way, i presume the dosages taper down......on all accounts.

Nothing about b6 or p-5-p though...

This is PA's recommend SD pct.....

See what i am saying Bass...........so many different guys stating pct's..........
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2k2ser said:
That's also what I'm wondering. I was going to use A-dex as my AI to start at the end of the SERM (Torem). Do you need a basic OTC or a real AI? As far as the AI theory goes. I was going to follow something like you posted here. It seems to make sense. Start coming back without the AI and control everything near the end with it.
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Dave Palumbo as well as many other knowledgeful pro's say that most OTC AI's are just as effective/strong as dex, letro ect.....The same risks also apply though so keep that in mind ;)
 
I would say ldex is stronger than 6-oxo, IMO. 300mg of ldex and 300mg of trione are two totally different animals........


i must admit, I like both ideals of pct.

I like bass' and i like PA's......

flip a coin?

lol
 
Kristofer68SS said:
I would say ldex is stronger than 6-oxo, IMO. 300mg of ldex and 300mg of trione are two totally different animals........


i must admit, I like both ideals of pct.

I like bass' and i like PA's......

flip a coin?

lol
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Hu, yea mg for mg there's no comparison but that is dose related not mg for mg dude... dex at .5 is roughly the same as a 300mg dose of oxo, 50mgs of ATD ect, ect.....
I'm running the fcuk out of M-drol right now and I can tell you for sure I WILL NOT be fcuking with an AI in my pct just FYI...Any other compound this might be different but there are obviously more/different issues involved with superdrol in contrast to compounds like epi, phera, halo ect, ect....
 
BlackSheep said:
Hu, yea mg for mg there's no comparison but that is dose related not mg for mg dude... dex at .5 is roughly the same as a 300mg dose of oxo, 50mgs of ATD ect, ect.....
I'm running the fcuk out of M-drol right now and I can tell you for sure I WILL NOT be fcuking with an AI in my pct just FYI...Any other compound this might be different but there are obviously more/different issues involved with superdrol in contrast to compounds like epi, phera, halo ect, ect....
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first off..........6oxo=ldex is just plain untrue. DUDE

6oxo is a very weak AI in comparison.

As far as an AI goes in PCT superdrol........ ???up in there air.

PA knows some shite, but was he recommending 6-oxo or ldex........there is a difference.

Here is an excerpt taken from another site. take it for what its worth.

Written by SuperChicken over at Anabolic-Alchemy.com

"theres been a lot of talk on other boards about this lately, and a lot of bad information thrown out as well. i wanted to share the good info.

somone keeps posting how letrozole is the strongest and doesnt negatively affect cholesterol. this is not true. letrozole is NOT the strongest and it DOES negative affect cholesterol/lipid profile in a bad way.

aromasin(exemestane) is the best. this is why

both arimidex/ldex/anastrozole and femara/letrozole hurt your cholesterol. the way these 2 anti e's work is they inhibit the aromatase enzyme. by inhibiting the enzyme which converts testosterone to estrogen, you reduce or even come close to eliminating estrogen production. we need some estrogen to be healthy. the major drawback to this is without estrogen, your lipid profile gets ****ed.

exemestane works differently. it does not stop the body from producing estrogen. rather, it makes it so the estrogen is unable to bind to receptors by deactivating the binding enzyme. if the estrogen cannot bind, you simply will not get bloated or get gyno. the estrogen is crippled due to exemestane. however, since the estrogen is still floating around, it will not negatively affect your lipid/cholesterol profile.

anastrozole doesnt cause a rebound effect, and neither does exemestane, but letrozole does. this means after you stop the letrozole, your estrogen rebounds and goes pretty high for a while, eventually it normalizes. you can avoid this by tapering your letro dose down before stopping it, but that is a pain in the ass. higher than normal can mess many things up post cycle when you stop. since the hpta has a feedback loop is primarily controlled by estrogen, high estrogen will tell your hpta to produce less testosterone, because it thinks the high estrogen is caused by too much testosterone. this is fact. now post cycle, dont we want to raise our test levels, not lower them? of course! so rebounds are bad. if you use letro taper the dose off to zero over a couple weeks.

fyi- nolvadex(tamoxifen) is a SERM(Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator). this means on certain tissue it can act antagonisticaly or agonistically. in the case of lipid profiles, it acts agonistically. so, running tamoxifen with your anti e's will IMPROVE your cholesterol profile even if not on cycle or using any gear or other anti e's. its just plain good for cholesterol.

one thing to keep in mind though when runing tamoxifen with letro. letro reduces blood levels of tamoxifen by over 50%. a study showed 2.5mg letro ed made nolva levels drop to 40% of what they were before adding letro. this does not mean you cant use tamoxifen with letro, it just means you need to use more, about double. 20mg of nolva will act like 8mg if running letro. so make sure you are aware of this because you will need to buy more nolva to compensate. this does not happen when mixing tamoxifen with anastrozole or exemestane, it only hppens with letro.

also, many people and myself experince a reduction of libido on letro. this doesnt happen w/ ldex or exmestane as far as i know, and in my own experience, and ive run all 3 quite a bit.

the best combo IS exemestane and tamoxifen together. your cholesterol will be as good as can be considering your on a cycle of steroids. the dose of aromasin will vary depending on the users needs and how much aromatizing gear is being taken. usually 10-25mg ed works well. run 10mg ed nolva to improve your cholesterol.

second best combo i feel is anastrozole(ldex) and tamoxifen. ldex dose ranges from usually .15mg ed to 1mg ed. run 10mg nolva ed to improve cholesterol.

thierd best is letro and nolvadex. letro doses usually range from 1-2.5mg ed. run 20mg ed nolva to improve cholesterol w/ letro.

you do not need to run nolva with any of these 3, i do recomend it though as it will improve cholesterol compared to using the anti e's alone without nolva.

so in order of strength, on a dose per dose basis(not mg per mg) aromasin is def the strognest, a close next is letro, and then ldex.

ive been running aromasin now for about 4 months, i wont switch back to ldex or letro. it works much better and its much healthier for cholesterol profiles.

i think we all need to stop only worrying about side effects that we can see visually. cholesterol KILLS many people around the world everyday(well not directly kills but leads to it). steroids are hrting us badly in this sense. steroids do mess our cholesterol up pretty badly, and we will pay for it later in life. now not many of us are going to stop using gear because of that, but we should at least take the proper other drugs to help minimize.

aromasin is only a little bit more expensive than ldex or letro, and its actually about the same price as many places sell ldex or letro for. but its more powerful and healthier. people spend money all the time on steroids which dont have as many side effects as some of the harsher, cheaper steroids. a few extra bucks for the proper anti e's is def money well spent."

Again taken-

"
Quote:
Originally posted by OceanDude
OK - so anyone know how 6-oxo stacks up against aromasin and the others?

It doesn't"


I would like to read something from Ergo or PA stating their product versus a research chem. Even the weakest of them all, Ldex.
 
Damn't, I am not shutting up and listening...........I'm out.

For wiser to prevail.

still awaiting the perfect pct for SD.
 
Kristofer68SS said:
first off..........6oxo=ldex is just plain untrue. DUDE
Click to expand...

No, first off Dave Palumbo himself said that, dipsht! And there is a small chance that he knows more about running gear than you do here theorizing what AI to run or whether or not to run one with a "designer" anabolic!
Do whatever you want but I suggest you curb your smart mouth if you expect to people to help you make a decision. Just thrown out what a pro with 20+ years of experiance had to say on the matter that is all....so don't try to call me out on it...
 
BlackSheep said:
No, first off Dave Palumbo himself said that, dipsht! And there is a small chance that he knows more about running gear than you do here theorizing what AI to run or whether or not to run one with a "designer" anabolic!
Do whatever you want but I suggest you curb your smart mouth if you expect to people to help you make a decision. Just thrown out what a pro with 20+ years of experiance had to say on the matter that is all....so don't try to call me out on it...
Click to expand...


First off. I am not your dude, lets make that clear.

Secondly, I am not a dipshyt. I havent ran gynodrol yet.

My sole reason. Because all these experts cant seem to agree. Not sure i plan to. Ever.

Running gear is different than gynodrol. okay.

Also, 6oxo doesnt equate to Ldex.

I am just offering other's advice and opinions.

Same as you.

good day sir.
 
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