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does god exist

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Ok, I read it twice, but I still fail to see how what I said is contradict it. Can you put it for me in simple words, if you don't mind?
 
CryingEmo said:
That's actually a popular question of logic that trys to debunk omipotence.


It can be argued by calling it a logical fallacy, like a square circle. It still raises more questions than answers though. And it basically suggests that it's impossible to be omnipotent unless it's possible to do something that we do not have the ability to contemplate (think flatworld: carl sagan 5th dimensional beings).


In the end, you can't really prove or disprove god.
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EXACTLY! NOBODY can say for sure until they die. Nobody has died and came back to tell about it, nor will they ever. Like i've stated before; if I die and I appear at the heavenly gates, and am asked "will you accept christ as your savior?" I will say YES. Until I die and the question of this thread is answered, I simply cannot put my faith in something that I do not believe in. Reps to you emo!
 
pantera101 said:
Lol!I got 5 more months!Then never again!My last mistake was wrecking my car into a main gas line while extremely drunk!How I hit the gas line,IDK!Why I was driving,IDK again.Just way too drunk to think for myself.I knew not to drink and drive and avoided driving or driniking to not mix the two many times before.I just wanted to cross the state line and come back home.My reasoning on why it was ok was just don't get caught!Could have been much worse though.I could of killed others or my dog who was with me,or me,or even worse in my opinion,be a horribly scarred burn victim.I was so drunk I probably wouldn't have known how to get out.I barely remember the wreck and only bits and pieces.I blacked out an event my step mom told me about before I went driving.I still don't remeber it.This happened in april of 07.Sometimes drunken forgetfullnes will come back with time........
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Mine is all financial, some of which is related to an EX that left me high and dry lol, Eh, we live, learn, and become stronger no?
 
Zero V said:
Mine is all financial, some of which is related to an EX that left me high and dry lol, Eh, we live, learn, and become stronger no?
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Regardless of ANY of our beliefs discussed in this thread, we ALL LOVE and cherish the IRON. It will never lie, cheat, or do you wrong. The gym is my own personal sanctuary. :) Sorry for the sidetrack, but your "become stronger" comment made me think of that. I wish everyone here the strength of CONAN!! :lol:
 
B5150 said:
It very well implies and more so states and instructs that it is a greater power than within us, it is He and His Spirit...not us and our mind or our own ability.
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Well, yea, I agree... And through meditation you connect to God, ask for guidance, ask for protection against all evil, ask for a healing or advice.
 
Zero V said:
Mine is all financial, some of which is related to an EX that left me high and dry
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also...

Luke 6:29 "Whoever hits you on the cheek, offer him the other also; and whoever takes away your coat, do not withhold your shirt from him either.

Luke 6:30 "Give to everyone who asks of you, and whoever takes away what is yours, do not demand it back.
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b unit said:
as long as you forgive her zero, that is all that matters.
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I did, she also got married to a guy in my church, and I have become really good friends with her again...we were actually each others only premaritial....uh....getting jiddy wit it, if you know what I mean. We broke up because of those mistakes.... Like I said, I didnt used to follow the good path...

Going to your ex's wedding less than a year after breaking up SUCKS, but gets you over it soo friggin fast.

Actually she asked me to help hand out flyers tommorow for next weeks Sports VBS our church is doing. The only person I ever struggle to forgive is myself when I screw up

And about the IRON commnt about the gym, amen. The gym is where all I see is a white blur of myself pushing my limits,and feeling that oh so great sensation of your muscles screaming no more!!!!!
 
b unit said:
however to me, perfect remains perfect and will always be perfect. if it starts out perfect only to become imperfect then it never was perfect as perfect remains perfect forever, that's what makes it perfect.
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I completely see what you mean and I completely understand why it makes perfect sense...as it does. But, our faith and belief is not of our own making. We have instruction that is quite contrary to worldly or natural reason, and some do call it unreasonable. Actually we know the world calls it unreasonable and even foolish:

1 Corinthians 1:18 (New International Version)
18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Hence "Fool for Christ" ;)
 
B5150 said:
For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.
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In other words... Do not see other person as your enemy, because we are all one with God, but fight against evil who try to turn people on each other. Yes?
 
bassgod272 said:
I wish everyone here the strength of CONAN!! :lol:
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The riddle of steel?

Steel is strong but flesh is stronger. What is steel compared to the hand that wields it.

"He is strong! If I die, I have to go before him, and he will ask me, 'What is the riddle of steel?' If I don't know it, he will cast me out of Valhalla and laugh at me." ... "That's Crom, strong on his mountain." ~Conan the Barbarian
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DmitryWI said:
In other words... Do not see other person as your enemy, because we are all one with God, but fight against evil who try to turn people on each other. Yes?
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It's not the "people".

"They have divine power to demolish strongholds."

The people are the vessel. The stronghold is the spirit of our enemy. Our enemy is not the person it is the spirit in which he walks.

Here is a statement I made to my brother when I had a revelation about some past behaviors (perversions and lasciviousness) that I see now as I walk in the spirit - "What would have possessed me to behave like that". The what, is really the who. The stronghold was the spirit of perversion and lasciviousness. Who is the author of perversion and lasciviousness? Not I, but he, my enemy and his spirit.

Who let me see it. He, the Divine Holy Spirit. Who demolished it? He, the divine Holy Spirit, not I.

You with me?

EDIT: But also, yes, in a sense what you are saying is along that lines. But remember not all are IN God. Though we all are from God we are not all IN Him and/or He in them/us.
 
B5150 said:
You with me?
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Yes. We are talking about the same thing, just not in the same language, I guess. God helps us walk our path, be a better person, live better lives and make other people lives better through us, when on another hand evil tries to do the opposite. On the end, because of free will, we are the ones to make the final choice.
 
B5150 said:
"Scripture states" and I speak for myself :)
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I was referring the out of contexts of that statement.I guess the DTH and restore are getting to me............

Where do you go after a post?I notice it can be right after a post and then you will be offline.Then make another and be off again........:think:
 
pantera101 said:
I was referring the out of contexts of that statement.I guess the DTH and restore are getting to me............

Where do you go after a post?I notice it can be right after a post and then you will be offline.Then make another and be off again........:think:
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He's gotta life, not like you sitting your ass all evening in front of computer. Oh, wait, am I talking about myself? I gotta go...:run:
 
DmitryWI said:
He's gotta life, not like you sitting your ass all evening in front of computer. Oh, wait, am I talking about myself? I gotta go...:run:
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Lol!This site gets my free time man.I get on AM when I wake up in the mornings,if I come home for lunch,when I get home from work,and it stays on untill I go to bed so I can come by and check my user cp from time to time.I love this site!
 
pantera101 said:
Agreed!I have realy realised here lately that alot of times when I'm down and out or just pi$$ed off,theres no need for it and it's realy just my thoughts that contribute to it.I don't meditate,but I do try and think happier thoughts and see the positives and not only the negatives.It's just stupid to live that way but I have always seen the negatives of things.
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I should mention one more thing regarding meditation...
There are many different way, every person finds their own. Prayer is a form of meditation as well. Some people go for a walk in a park, ride a bike or run, like you said, just positive thinking, some just listen to the music, or garden, etc. Whatever gets your mind off all your daily BS and stress and helps you to connect to God or universe or whatever else you believe or don't. How many people can't fall asleep, because they are so stressed out and just can't stop thinking about their day and then start popping pills or drink or whatever. When simple meditation can solve this problem within minutes.
 
DmitryWI said:
I should mention one more thing regarding meditation...
There are many different way, every person finds their own. Prayer is a form of meditation as well. Some people go for a walk in a park, ride a bike or run, like you said, just positive thinking, some just listen to the music, or garden, etc. Whatever gets your mind off all your daily BS and stress and helps you to connect to God or universe or whatever else you believe or don't. How many people can't fall asleep, because they are so stressed out and just can't stop thinking about their day and then start popping pills or drink or whatever. When simple meditation can solve this problem within minutes.
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and some lift weights!In my opinion theirs no better way to forget about life and any problems that may be occuring.You just go into the zone and nothing matters!

I may have to look into meditation.I was made to go to AA by the courts and the alcaholics seemed to like it.
 
pantera101 said:
I was referring the out of contexts of that statement.I guess the DTH and restore are getting to me............

Where do you go after a post?I notice it can be right after a post and then you will be offline.Then make another and be off again........:think:
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Oh. I misunderstood.

I don't see that it was out of context. I was in discussion with Dmitry and a matter of chapter and verse and practical application. No matter though.

I log in invisible. I also function as the Board Administrator and at times prefer to be in stealth mode. As a matter of fact I am always here...watching ;)

I work a 3-12's weekend shift. I used to have a lot of idle time during that shift. But recently I am leading a mentor/apprentice program so I am not as free to post during the weekend like I used to. So now I do more during the weekdays. Candidly, I really should be using my time more productively since I have a 6yo daughter who is on summer vacation. But I love my AM community.
 
pantera101 said:
and some lift weights!In my opinion theirs no better way to forget about life and any problems that may be occuring.You just go into the zone and nothing matters!

I may have to look into meditation.I was made to go to AA by the courts and the alcaholics seemed to like it.
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Damn! Forgot the most important one.:hammer:

LOL about AA
 
:woohoo:One thing I forgot to share with you, guys, I became an uncle as of yesterday.:woohoo: It's a boy.
 
Zero V said:
***The following is a brief message from zero and only represents his BELIEFS and opinions don't shoot at him....***

None of those are right my fiend. But consider that some people change, and if you add in the spiritual realm sometimes people were not in full control per say...

A young man who is high on drugs rapes a woman. He made a mistake, will probably pay the price in this life with jail time or worse. Does he deserve eternal damnation? Separation from the father? Or in what little time he has left can he try to make things right with society.

Does someone who kills two people because he is in a gang deserve eternal damnation? He may break out of that gang, find Christ, try to live a right life. Be a part of his community, help every one he can, and he will most likely never forgive himself for his past.

Now forgiveness comes with change. If you say please forgive me, but you don't mean it, it does you no good. So the idea of praying on your death bed...a gamble way to big for people to take. IMO


Also about some lost tribe in Africa, people are only held accountable to God "IF" they are given the chance to know Christ, but choose not to. So if they are never given the chance, they are not held accountable. This is what I was taught.
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Actually I was not talking religiously only what is right and wrong. As far as my beliefs if a person commits an atrocity against another karma will re-balance by either causing negative karma for the offender or positive karma for the person offended, unless the reason the person was wronged was leftover from their previous life. So in this way you always have another chance but you Will be responsible for what you have done.
 
Zero V said:
Ok.... Let me tell just ONE of the reasons why "I" know God exists. Last year I had a demon cast out of me at a church. It wasnt my normal church, I was told to visit by a friend by the evangalist and she didnt even know me.

I get there, go up for prayer and she starts praying like crazy over me... She pushes me to the ground, nothing happens so i am just laying there. Well they pick me up, when they do she said something in tongues and wham, I hit the floor as limp a a ragdoll. It felt like a brick wall slammed through me followed by a rushing water then I was filled with this amazing breeze. And I was empty, no pain, anger, sadness. Just warmth. Then the holy spirit filled the vacancy....Life sure has changed since then...

No print out from a radiomathingy graph, or isse between 2 versions ofthe bible, or theoretical argument can change actual experience. This is why I as in ME know God exists. Not stomping on anyone elses beliefs, but I know what I know. And you know what you know :P
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Which demon? I don't think it truly was a demon sounds more like healing energy was passed into you, you can do it too. That is if your church was willing to teach providing they know how.
 
DmitryWI said:
In my experience just about every person gets effected by dark, negative energy (or so called demons). For example depression is nothing more than dark energy in your head. This is pretty easy to get rid through meditation, imagine golden light going from the Heavens to the top of your head and burn all the negativity. You can even feel warmth from that light. Esp. if you do it more than once. There's no rolling on the ground or speaking in tongues or any kind of out of body experience. Basically this is the way to connect to God. Even in the Bible it says:"Be quite before God". Means you need to stop your brain from thinking and listen to God, your Soul. And this is what meditation is all about.
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But is it really demons isn't it just negative energy?
 
pantera101 said:
Lol!I got 5 more months!Then never again!My last mistake was wrecking my car into a main gas line while extremely drunk!How I hit the gas line,IDK!Why I was driving,IDK again.Just way too drunk to think for myself.I knew not to drink and drive and avoided driving or driniking to not mix the two many times before.I just wanted to cross the state line and come back home.My reasoning on why it was ok was just don't get caught!Could have been much worse though.I could of killed others or my dog who was with me,or me,or even worse in my opinion,be a horribly scarred burn victim.I was so drunk I probably wouldn't have known how to get out.I barely remember the wreck and only bits and pieces.I blacked out an event my step mom told me about before I went driving.I still don't remeber it.This happened in april of 07.Sometimes drunken forgetfullnes will come back with time........
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You get arrested? I have friends that do this every Saturday, drive drunk that is. There is one of them that has weekly blackouts.
 
DmitryWI said:
You are unguarded and opened to negative energy 24/7. There's through meditation and by connecting to God and His awesome energy is how you get protected from all the darkness.
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Have you ever hear of creating a circle? It is a way to protect yourself from the negative energy.
 
B5150 said:
I completely see what you mean and I completely understand why it makes perfect sense...as it does. But, our faith and belief is not of our own making. We have instruction that is quite contrary to worldly or natural reason, and some do call it unreasonable. Actually we know the world calls it unreasonable and even foolish:

1 Corinthians 1:18 (New International Version)
18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Hence "Fool for Christ" ;)
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If the creator made us to be perfect then what would there be to strive for?
 
bryan4980 said:
Which demon? I don't think it truly was a demon sounds more like healing energy was passed into you, you can do it too. That is if your church was willing to teach providing they know how.
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Zero's Beliefs of opinion***

No because it was called out lilke that and lets just say it fought it....and it is weirf to feel something inside you resisting something, man....freaky stuff like that will change alot of things....

That and for my life to change so much, something had to be taken away. I have actually seen a few of those since then myself. And when me and a friend annointed my house, something started choking me, and he pretty much had to do most of it. There was a dark presense in my house, but afterwards you ccould feel the change in the air...

"""One thing I forgot to share with you, guys, I became an uncle as of yesterday. It's a boy.-DmitryWI""

Congrats DmitryWI, how does it feel to be an uncle??
 
bryan4980 said:
You get arrested? I have friends that do this every Saturday, drive drunk that is. There is one of them that has weekly blackouts.
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Yeah I got arrested.Theirs many people who drive drunk all the time and never get caught.In a DWI class I took they told us based on studies that show how many people drive under the influence you have less than 1% chance of being caught.Then they say congratulations!You beat the odds! :frustrate I know two brothers who have each had 3 DWI's and one guy who had 4.So I don't know about those odds but thats what they said.If/when you get caught,it's nowhere near worht it.The two brothers who have had 3,well the one got extremely lucky with an expensive lawyer and got his 2 yrs of prison reduced to 2 yrs of probation.His first lawyer told him to take prison so he fired him and the next told hm the same at first.The other brother didn't get so lucky and got 10yrs of probation with a blower on his truck.The guy who has 4 also got lucky cause they were in different states and didn't catch up to him untill after he was already sentenced.In Tx they try for prison on the third one.A sherrif told me it's mandatory now.
 
bryan4980 said:
If the creator made us to be perfect then what would there be to strive for?
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You know you are right we were not created perfect otherwise there would be no need for perfecting or the perfection in Christ.

Genesis 1
The Beginning
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.

11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so.

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.
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Now read something that I found during some study*

God’s Good Creation
June 9, 2008 · 1 Comment

One of the challenges for the theistic evolutionist/evolutionary creationist when initially embracing the natural sciences as something that can and should help inform our theology and understandings about God and the natural world, is working out how death and suffering fit.

For the literal 6 day creationist it is a very boxed and easily definable problem - the initial creation was ‘perfect’ and death did not occur. When the first and literal man and woman sinned, physical death and suffering entered the world. It’s easy and offers a pre-fall state of perfection and union with God that is consistently pointed to as the ideal; that which is being ‘restored’.

The problem of pain seems a consistent thorn amongst theistic evolutionists/evolutionary creationists as the evidence points to cycles of death, extinction and suffering long before the explosive dawn of the modern human mind of creativity, communication, technology and culture and as, in fact, necessary for the very sustaining and movement of life.

There are some important points to feed the discussion here though as we aid those Christians who rightly integrate good scientific discovery into our understandings about all things.

God’s creative ways are not always absolutely perfect and indeed, the initial creation stories never indicate that they are. God’s creative ways always allow for improvement, messiness and the movement towards something, a higher point.

As Dr Graeme Finlay noted to me over a coffee the other day, the nation of Israel’s creation was a messy affair. He is right. The establishment of this unique people group in Old Testament times was full of failings, sacrifice, victory, despair and all the myriad of ups and downs it takes to spawn a new and established entity. In fact, that messiness could almost be described as necessary.

The establishment and growth of the Church is the same.

Understanding that these two pillars of God’s creative activity allow for things we would define as messy destroys any rule that says that whenever God creates, the process of that creation should always be ‘perfect’ (in the way that we often define perfect) and free of mess.

Another important point is the fact that the initial creation stories never point to a ‘perfect’ natural world. What is pointed to is a ‘good’ natural world. Indeed, even in the tragedy of the evolutionary process, we can see movement forward, we can see a creation brimming with wonder, process, beauty, pain and the majesty of something that could most certainly be argued to be good, not perfect.

Sacrifice is interwoven into God’s creative process. It is through natural sacrifice that life itself is shaped and grows. This is by no means a romantic view, for it recognizes both pain and beauty in the wonder of the process. Such an understanding gives God back his sovereignty and places the life, sacrifice and resurrection of Jesus squarely into the center of that process.

It gives God back his sovereignty by saying that the story isn’t just about humanity stuffing up a static, perfect order that God instituted and which he has been trying to restore ever since; but is about God beginning all that is and that ‘all’ moving towards a future state in complete communion with God. It stops us looking back to some pre-fall state and holding it up as something we should attain to and compels us to look forward.

It places the life, sacrifice and resurrection of Jesus - the incarnation and perfect representation of the invisible God - in the center of all Christian thought, including the natural world and its processes by seeing Jesus not as “the exception of the natural order, but as the exemplification of it.” (quoting Finlay in Evolving Creation, drawing on the thoughts of Holmes Rolston). If sacrifice is written into the very weaving of life, then Jesus represents the ultimate example of the process being lived out.

Through Jesus, humanity has been invited into the process. We have been endowed with God’s image and we have been given responsibility in His creation to unite with Him in moving it forward, yet so often we rebel against that mandate. This is sin.

It is not just a failing of the first beings who could be defined as human, but an ongoing failing of the breadth of humanity, both individually and corporately. The life, sacrifice and resurrection of Jesus calls us towards uniting with God’s purposes and God’s processes. It calls us to recognize our place in the world around us - a natural and physical world - and it calls us to know, understand and respect it.

When we fail to submit to this then death is the final answer; the tragedy within the created order overcomes us and that which is around us, and the birth of new life fails to take place. For this, we are accountable. We are accountable for our activity in the world.

These thoughts are a work in process.
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* Note that I study. I did not find enough evidence to support what I said to be true. As it states we were created good not perfect. Yet it also leads me to the affirmation that Christ is the perfection.

So thank you. Not only have you caused me to rethink and re-examine the facts (facts being limited to the cross examination of the data) and have further enforced my beliefs...based on study. Study! Let me emphasize one more time...STUDY! I mean - not making this **** up as I go along because it makes me feel good or it fits well with my culture or family values or what the cool kids are doing. Or if appears that I have promptly admit when I have or made an assumption to such as being fact. I challenge everyone to do the same.

Now, I never implied that we were perfect, as in without flaw. It was implied that the perfect was as He planned or desire it to be. So He being perfect designed or created something that was flawed inherently...that is still a perfect creation.

I also stated elsewhere that people believe what they believe now based on what they have seen, heard, read, understand or have experienced thus far. I also stated that as you live more of life you may find people, places or things and experiences that may change what you believe or the fact of your faith. As I am willing and able to grow and learn within my faith I find things new every single day. I encourage you guys who are steadfast in your disbelief to consider that you may change one day as well.

I never ever have to surrender my faith to educate myself. Education is from knowledge and evidence. My faith is still just faith as defined - "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen".

Of course some things, as always need be prefaced with - "I believe" or "IMHO"

Good morning! :D
 
Zero V said:
Zero's Beliefs of opinion***

No because it was called out lilke that and lets just say it fought it....and it is weirf to feel something inside you resisting something, man....freaky stuff like that will change alot of things....

That and for my life to change so much, something had to be taken away. I have actually seen a few of those since then myself. And when me and a friend annointed my house, something started choking me, and he pretty much had to do most of it. There was a dark presense in my house, but afterwards you ccould feel the change in the air...

"""One thing I forgot to share with you, guys, I became an uncle as of yesterday. It's a boy.-DmitryWI""

Congrats DmitryWI, how does it feel to be an uncle??
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Ok, sounds like you were correct in your original assessment.
 
B5150 said:
You know you are right we were not created perfect otherwise there would be no need for perfecting or the perfection in Christ.


So thank you. Not only have you caused me to rethink and re-examine the facts (facts being limited to the cross examination of the data) and have further enforced my beliefs...based on study.
:D
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You're welcome.
All my question thus far have not been to attempt to try to shake anyone's beliefs.
 
B5150 said:
What makes you so special?

Am I on the "pay-no-mind" list?

:D
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Well I had the hat and stood in the corner alot as a child, .....possibly :S

Maybe just maybe you're paying too much mind...can't hear the still small voice...

;)

Yur special two:toofunny:
 
I asked a Christian guy; what happens to a mentally handicapped person, or someone who lives on an island yet has never heard of christianity. Or even a baby who dies after birth. He replied that those instances allow for the person to go to heaven because of ignorance.


But then again, what constitutes ignorance? Can you meassure it? If you don't believe in Christianity, then doesn't that make you ignorant as it is, and you get a free pass?


Is there a narrow spectrum that dictates this whole thing? For instance what if someone has an IQ of 67 but doesn't believe in God. God's cut off point for IQ is 66 and below = ignorance.


What if you purposely make yourself retarded and then are incapable of believing in god? Automatic pass?
 
CryingEmo said:
I asked a Christian guy; what happens to a mentally handicapped person, or someone who lives on an island yet has never heard of christianity. Or even a baby who dies after birth. He replied that those instances allow for the person to go to heaven because of ignorance.


But then again, what constitutes ignorance?
Click to expand...

ignorance is as ignorance does my friend.

Webster's Dictionary's Definition of Ignorance
Ig´no`rance
n. 1. The condition of being ignorant; the lack of knowledge in general, or in relation to a particular subject; the state of being uneducated or uninformed.
Ignorance is the curse of God,
Knowledge the wing wherewith we fly to heaven.
- Shak.
2. (Theol.) A willful neglect or refusal to acquire knowledge which one may acquire and it is his duty to have.Invincible ignorance
(Theol.) ignorance beyond the individual's control and for which, therefore, he is not responsible before God.


CryingEmo said:
What if you purposely make yourself retarded and then are incapable of believing in god? Automatic pass?
Click to expand...

from my understanding of all things God is that he is way to smart fot that and will hit the button and send you directly to hell, do not pass go and do not collect $200!

:thumbsup:
 

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