Banana - after training

ono

ono

Member
Is a banana (well 2 in my case) enough to cause an insulin spike after training?


I know it's full of sugar but a banana is medium on the GI index.


I know maltodextrin and dextrose would most likely to be better, but was just wondering if 2 bananas would suffice?

Cheers.
 
Bananas are great for post workout but I would suggest trying to take them in with a complex carb source or one that will convert to glucose faster than the fructose in the bananas. Bananas are great at replenishing liver glycogen after a workout but it takes longer than glucose to replenish muscle glycogen.

Do you have access to any other carb sources to bring with you? Whole wheat bread, bagels, so on?
 
Bananas aren't just fructose. In fact they're probably the fruit lowest in fructose...about 1/3 of the actual carb content. Bananas actually contain starch as well.

They're a good choice PWO. Healthier than maltodextrin/glucose, too.
 
I'm pretty sure Bananas are atleast 1/2 fructose 1/2 dex. As the ripen thats a different story but for when I hope you would be eating them.
 
From a content of fructose in fruit table its something like out of 15.7 grams of carbs 4.2 glucose 3 fructose and 6.5 sucrose with a total metabolic sugar grams of 6.

Better than I had thought but I would still want something other than just a banana for post workout.
 
Invalid Link Removed

Search for "bananas, raw"

Put in 2 medium bananas

Total carbs: 53.9g
-sucrose: 5.64g
-glucose: 11.75g
-fructose: 11.45g
-starch: 12.7

I was actually a bit off...it's closer to only 1/4 fructose:
-sucrose is half fructose, so (5.64/2+11.45)/53.9= 0.2647 or 26.47% fructose.

Sure it changes as they ripen more, just don't go eating brown bananas.

For most people bananas PWO would be fine. If you're a more advanced bodybuilder, then okay, but for most people it should work fine. I'm not trying to be a jerk but a lot of people on the boards (not saying you, OCCfan) hardly even look like they lift and they're worrying about bananas vs. dextrose/maltodextrin PWO.
 
Wow I wish I had seen that website a while back, I was unaware bananas were as starchy as they are. Thanks for the link man.
 
Don't forget than protein increases GI as well. I eat basmati rice or cereal after training with a banana and some form of protein.
 
Actually I think if they're more ripe they'd have more glucose as the starch breaks down.

That's very true...pair with some whey protein and the insulin response is jacked up quite a bit.
 
The difference in rate of muscle glycogen resynthesis between glucose and sucrose is very small. Thus, even 50% fructose in your postW shake shouldn't be an issue. Having some postW fructose versus none is actually a good thing from the standpoint of anabolic signalling. Also, spiking insulin postW is a practice rooted in myth and misunderstanding - it's simply not necessary, since small rises in insulin are all that's required for maximal net protein synthesis. Granted, it's a different story with large pharmacological doses of insulin - but not with insulin pulses from food. For a more indepth explanation of why insulin spiking isn't necessary, read the opening article here, I specifically address this issue on page 4:

Invalid Link Removed

To Bobo's credit, he's seen the holes in the quick carbs thing for a number years now... Does Bobo still post here, or is he too busy traveling the globe in a private jet with the Bobettes?

Anyway, bananas are a great choice for your postW carbs. The whole waxy maize/quick carb thing is hilarious considering that it's only useful if you train to complete glycogen depletion multiple times a day.
 
alan aragon said:
The difference in rate of muscle glycogen resynthesis between glucose and sucrose is very small. Thus, even 50% fructose in your postW shake shouldn't be an issue. Having some postW fructose versus none is actually a good thing from the standpoint of anabolic signalling. Also, spiking insulin postW is a practice rooted in myth and misunderstanding - it's simply not necessary, simce small rises in insulin are all that's required for maximal net protein synthesis. Granted, it's a different story with large pharmacological doses of insulin - but not will insulin pulses from food. For a more indepth explanation of why insulin psiking isn't necessary, read the opening article here, I specifically address this issue on page 4:

Invalid Link Removed

To Bobo's credit, he's seen the holes in the quick carbs thing for a number years now... Does Bobo still post here, or is he too busy traveling the globe in a private jet with the Bobettes?

Anyway, bananas are a great choice for your postW carbs. The whole waxy maize/quick carb thing is hilarious considering that it's only useful if you train to complete glycogen depletion multiple times a day.
Click to expand...

I agree; it is pointless to put your body under wild insulin swings.
 
Very informative article Alan, and I completely agree with the slow releasing low GI carbs post work out (Being a Bobo client I learned from that.)

Couple questions after reading it if you don't mind. When you said Whole Milk superior for increasing net protein balance is that referring to protein synthesis or just protein uptake into the muscle following training? Also in the "rapid" period of glycogenesis for 30-60 minutes following exercise if insulin isn't what makes it rapid is there another factor that makes it more crucial to take your post workout meal in that "anabolic window" (or is the whole "anabolic window" thing not as important as its made out to be?)

I attempted to word that the best I could so apologies if it does not make sense.

Bobo doesn't really post at all anymore (his FLA sub form is gone as well.) I haven;t really heard anything about/from him since I heard he was getting married.
 
OCCFan023 said:
Very informative article Alan, and I completely agree with the slow releasing low GI carbs post work out (Being a Bobo client I learned from that.)

Couple questions after reading it if you don't mind. When you said Whole Milk superior for increasing net protein balance is that referring to protein synthesis or just protein uptake into the muscle following training?
Click to expand...
Amino acid uptake into muscle is an indicator of protein synthesis. When protein synthesis occurs at a greater rate than protein breakdown, there is a net positive gain in protein balance. In the milk study (which had its share of design issues), a greater net gain in protein balance occurred.
Also in the "rapid" period of glycogenesis for 30-60 minutes following exercise if insulin isn't what makes it rapid is there another factor that makes it more crucial to take your post workout meal in that "anabolic window" (or is the whole "anabolic window" thing not as important as its made out to be?
Click to expand...
The whole anabolic window concept was born from research on the posttrained state of overnight-fasted individuals who had no pre or during-workout nutrition. Also, it was focused on expediting speed of glycogenesis - which means jack to trainees who first off don't train to full glycogen depletion, and secondly aren't forced to train those same glycogen-depleted muscles again in the same day.
Bobo doesn't really post at all anymore (his FLA sub form is gone as well.) I haven;t really heard anything about/from him since I heard he was getting married.
Click to expand...
Marriage does change a few things, I'm going on my 9th year of it - and amazingly living to tell about it :)
 
Thanks for the insight, very helpful learning why certain techniques are used and the reasoning behind it. Its very interesting that the whole anabolic "window" is over emphasized quite a bit (but it really makes sense especially when I think about all the CKD stuff when its really crucial then to take in high GI liquid carbs directly after the depletion workout at the start of the carb up.)
 
OCCFan023 said:
Its very interesting that the whole anabolic "window" is over emphasized quite a bit (but it really makes sense especially when I think about all the CKD stuff when its really crucial then to take in high GI liquid carbs directly after the depletion workout at the start of the carb up.)
Click to expand...
High-GI liquid carbs after a depletion workout on CKD would only be useful if those same glycogen-depleted muscles had to be trained again within the same day. Otherwise, any ole' whole food or whole food-based carb source will do.
 
Neil5585 said:
Invalid Link Removed

Search for "bananas, raw"

Put in 2 medium bananas

Total carbs: 53.9g
-sucrose: 5.64g
-glucose: 11.75g
-fructose: 11.45g
-starch: 12.7

I was actually a bit off...it's closer to only 1/4 fructose:
-sucrose is half fructose, so (5.64/2+11.45)/53.9= 0.2647 or 26.47% fructose.

Sure it changes as they ripen more, just don't go eating brown bananas.

For most people bananas PWO would be fine. If you're a more advanced bodybuilder, then okay, but for most people it should work fine. I'm not trying to be a jerk but a lot of people on the boards (not saying you, OCCfan) hardly even look like they lift and they're worrying about bananas vs. dextrose/maltodextrin PWO.
Click to expand...
Thank you very much.

I go with 2 plus my bcaa and whey.

Some great info on here fellas.

Thanks to OCCfan aswel..
 
alan aragon said:
The difference in rate of muscle glycogen resynthesis between glucose and sucrose is very small. Thus, even 50% fructose in your postW shake shouldn't be an issue. Having some postW fructose versus none is actually a good thing from the standpoint of anabolic signalling. Also, spiking insulin postW is a practice rooted in myth and misunderstanding - it's simply not necessary, since small rises in insulin are all that's required for maximal net protein synthesis. Granted, it's a different story with large pharmacological doses of insulin - but not with insulin pulses from food. For a more indepth explanation of why insulin spiking isn't necessary, read the opening article here, I specifically address this issue on page 4:

Invalid Link Removed

To Bobo's credit, he's seen the holes in the quick carbs thing for a number years now... Does Bobo still post here, or is he too busy traveling the globe in a private jet with the Bobettes?

Anyway, bananas are a great choice for your postW carbs. The whole waxy maize/quick carb thing is hilarious considering that it's only useful if you train to complete glycogen depletion multiple times a day.
Click to expand...
That's great. Thanks.

I'd heard that it wasn't totally necessary before but can't remember where i heard it or how much substance was behind the claim.
 
alan aragon said:
The difference in rate of muscle glycogen resynthesis between glucose and sucrose is very small. Thus, even 50% fructose in your postW shake shouldn't be an issue. Having some postW fructose versus none is actually a good thing from the standpoint of anabolic signalling. Also, spiking insulin postW is a practice rooted in myth and misunderstanding - it's simply not necessary, since small rises in insulin are all that's required for maximal net protein synthesis. Granted, it's a different story with large pharmacological doses of insulin - but not with insulin pulses from food. For a more indepth explanation of why insulin spiking isn't necessary, read the opening article here, I specifically address this issue on page 4:

Invalid Link Removed

To Bobo's credit, he's seen the holes in the quick carbs thing for a number years now... Does Bobo still post here, or is he too busy traveling the globe in a private jet with the Bobettes?

Anyway, bananas are a great choice for your postW carbs. The whole waxy maize/quick carb thing is hilarious considering that it's only useful if you train to complete glycogen depletion multiple times a day.
Click to expand...

Great post Alan - as usual. Need more voices of reason in this industry.
 
Bananas are like my favourite pre and post workout foods. They're great. Then again I don't buy all this take-80g-sugar-give-yourself-type-two-diabetes post workout cocktail stuff so I might not be the most appropriate person to listen to if you believe spiking your insulin post-workout is important.
 
lector606 said:
Bananas are like my favourite pre and post workout foods. They're great. Then again I don't buy all this take-80g-sugar-give-yourself-type-two-diabetes post workout cocktail stuff so I might not be the most appropriate person to listen to if you believe spiking your insulin post-workout is important.
Click to expand...
youve got some crazy abs bro!!! damn id like some like those.
 
lector606 said:
Bananas are like my favourite pre and post workout foods. They're great. Then again I don't buy all this take-80g-sugar-give-yourself-type-two-diabetes post workout cocktail stuff so I might not be the most appropriate person to listen to if you believe spiking your insulin post-workout is important.
Click to expand...

80g of Post workout maltodextrin wont give you type 2 diabetes will it? It's right after your workout and none of it gets stored. If you took that at night or something I can understand. If this is the case I'm paranoid now, I only get 60g but still.
 
lector606 said:
haha thanks man, ya maybe it has something to do with not putting 80g of dextrose in my shakes
Click to expand...

lol naw it's all about low body fat, if you've been training abs for years you have it just drop to 5-9 body fat and it'll definitely show. I love bulking because I don't put too much fat on when I bulk(ecto :) ) but I love to cut more so I look ripped. Good job though dude takes a lot of decipline! :thumbsup:
 
AlexParty said:
80g of Post workout maltodextrin wont give you type 2 diabetes will it? It's right after your workout and none of it gets stored. If you took that at night or something I can understand. If this is the case I'm paranoid now, I only get 60g but still.
Click to expand...

haha i'm just exaggerating, no it won't give you type two diabetes, or at least i don't think so
 
Kevf said:
combining your carbs with protein will get you a way better 'spike' than just carbs.
Click to expand...

Ya I use to just down carbs but I added like 40g of protein to my carbs. I want my carbs to be higher though for a post shake. I recently bought post workout by Muscle Asylum... love the flavor and benefits, but over priced for the amount, wont buy it again because of the $$$ but great product.
 
Kevf said:
combining your carbs with protein will get you a way better 'spike' than just carbs.
Click to expand...

You will get a larger spike by taking the calories contributed from the protein and just replacing them with the equivalent in more dextrose.

That said, I think it's better to focus on providing your body with appropriate calories and macros not spiking insulin. Have you ever seen any methods on how you actually measure your insulin? You can't without a lab.
 
AlexParty said:
80g of Post workout maltodextrin wont give you type 2 diabetes will it? It's right after your workout and none of it gets stored. If you took that at night or something I can understand. If this is the case I'm paranoid now, I only get 60g but still.
Click to expand...

Sorry to say but just because it's PWO doesn't mean that you can eat everything in sight and none will get stored as fat. A workout will create a finite energy deficit and if you exceed it, the surplus will go into storage. If you're a big guy you can get away with more, less if you're slight.
 
Nitrox said:
Sorry to say but just because it's PWO doesn't mean that you can eat everything in sight and none will get stored as fat. A workout will create a finite energy deficit and if you exceed it, the surplus will go into storage. If you're a big guy you can get away with more, less if you're slight.
Click to expand...

I'm talking about a simple carb like Malto, it's not going to be stored after a post workout man, 80gs I admit is a lot, I only take 60 at most and that's directly after my workout, your body needs that especially if you had a heavy workout. I supplement with 40g of protein with the malto. I don't think it's possible for any of it to be stored as fat, read enough articles about this.
 
AlexParty said:
I'm talking about a simple carb like Malto, it's not going to be stored after a post workout man, 80gs I admit is a lot, I only take 60 at most and that's directly after my workout, your body needs that especially if you had a heavy workout. I supplement with 40g of protein with the malto. I don't think it's possible for any of it to be stored as fat, read enough articles about this.
Click to expand...

I am confused, why would you need to have 60 grams of malto? Do you have another event/training session within a couple of hours, or in a short enough time frame that you need to replenish glycogen right away?
 
People have different methods, I'm not telling anyone what to do. Do what you think is right for you, that's all. I'm an athlete, play AAA soccer so it's needed.
 
What are everyone's thoughts on Vitargo and Vitargo knock offs? The feedback seems pretty good but it's difficult to tell if that's just from the supposed feeling of insulin spike or if it's truely beneficial.

Personally, I just take in 40g whey and 40g of whatever carbs I can get my hands on to keep my macro ratios.
 
celc5 said:
What are everyone's thoughts on Vitargo and Vitargo knock offs? The feedback seems pretty good but it's difficult to tell if that's just from the supposed feeling of insulin spike or if it's truely beneficial.

Personally, I just take in 40g whey and 40g of whatever carbs I can get my hands on to keep my macro ratios.
Click to expand...

You're talking about right after a workout?
 
lector606 said:
Bananas are like my favourite pre and post workout foods. They're great. Then again I don't buy all this take-80g-sugar-give-yourself-type-two-diabetes post workout cocktail stuff so I might not be the most appropriate person to listen to if you believe spiking your insulin post-workout is important.
Click to expand...

hahahahahaha that's my quote of the day bro. I used to buy into all this PWO nutrition hype when I first started lifting. But that was eons ago. Now, I eat a wholesome nutritious delicious meal of real food roughly an hour before my workout, my workouts are about an hour, then soon afterward I have a small snack of carbs and some protein to hold me over til an hour or so later, when I have another wholesome nutritious delicious meal of real food, all with the appropriate number of macros for my body type.....

I don't feel bloated at all come PWO, like I once did binging on whey and oats. Instead of that antiquated, old-school meal I have about 12 oz of orange juice with a scoop of whey which yields me about 40 grams carbs, 20 grams protein. OR I may have a cup of yogurt with whey mixed in. Either or satisfies me just enough until my next meal. And I progress just fine.
 
ono said:
Is a banana (well 2 in my case) enough to cause an insulin spike after training?


I know it's full of sugar but a banana is medium on the GI index.


I know maltodextrin and dextrose would most likely to be better, but was just wondering if 2 bananas would suffice?

Cheers.
Click to expand...

i think waxy maize is great for post work out.
 
jimminy crickets.....as long as u eat properly throughout the day, this whole PWO window is bogus. After working out, you have totally depleted your glycogen stores.....sorry, it just isnt going to happen (unless u run a triathlon for your cardio).

when I get through lifting for an hour, i simply go home, eat something like this.....pick one

1. scoop of whey / gatorade
2. scoop of whey / banana or 2
3. tuna / OJ
4. whey / OJ
5. chicken breast / rice
6. basically, just eat about 40g of protein with about 20 - 40g carbs, and you will be fine.

chill out
 
ono said:
Is a banana (well 2 in my case) enough to cause an insulin spike after training?


I know it's full of sugar but a banana is medium on the GI index.


I know maltodextrin and dextrose would most likely to be better, but was just wondering if 2 bananas would suffice?

Cheers.
Click to expand...
its a simple sugar, and btw insulin spike depending on what your bodybuilding goals are, may be what you need anyway
(hence the reason why people take dextrose pre and post workout)

plus the potassium in bananas are good.
if anything i would use simpler sugars immediately post workout

and 30 minutes afterwards, eat some good ole long grain brown rice or oats
 
msucurt said:
jimminy crickets.....as long as u eat properly throughout the day, this whole PWO window is bogus. After working out, you have totally depleted your glycogen stores....
Click to expand...

You obviously eat throughout the day but the PWO window is not bogus, if anything it's one of the first things you learn about weight training. This article is amazing in explaining the full benefits of consuming fast carbs PWO.

"Finally, another important factor to consider is the timing of this meal. It is absolutely crucial that you consume your post-workout meal immediately after exercise. As indicated above, after exercise, the muscles are depleted and require an abundance of protein and carbohydrate. In addition, during this time, the muscles are biochemically "primed" for nutrient uptake. This phenomenon is commonly known as the "window of opportunity". Over the course of the recovery period, this window gradually closes and by failing to eat immediately after exercise, you diminish your chances of promoting full recovery. To illustrate how quickly this window closes, research has shown that consuming a post-exercise meal immediately after working out is superior to consuming one only 1 hour later. In addition, consuming one 1 hour later is superior to consuming one 3 hours later (Tipton et al 2001, Levenhagen et al 2001). If you wait too long, glycogen replenishment and protein repair will be compromised."

It better explains this if you read under "Feeding Hungry Muscles".


Invalid Link Removed
 
I really respect Dr. John Berardi's , and I agree that there is a window after working out, however I find that the GI of the carbs doesn't affect my recovery all that much. If I had a very intense workout + some cardio at the end, I might throw in 20g of simple sugars, but otherwise I stick with fruit like bananas, grapes and mangoes, milk, yogurt and whey made into a shake.

If I didn't have too intense of a workout, I will often go for solid food PWO. I have a massive pre-WO meal of 150g Oat Bran, Whey, Milk and Berries that fuels me during my workouts, so I don't feel the need to down a shake unless I've done a really solid workout.

That being said, I know many guys (myself previously) that do fast carbs PWO and love it, so I think there are 2 ways to go about it. I'm just trying to get more nutrients for my body and be in better overall health.
 
im pretty sure bobo said that it doesnt matter what type of carbs are taken pwo, they will be taken the same way the body will take the carbs up as it needs. of course not in those words but i believe something along those lines. if im wrong plz dont ban me!
 
Everyone's body reacts to different methods. I use to workout so hard, then come home and eat 30-60 minutes later. I always felt as if I missed something and when I ate my huge meal it was slow processing when I knew my body needed quick protein and carb. So ever since I shot in a PWO shake with 40g protein and 60 carbs I've been seeing results, I always eat another meal 30 minutes after the shake, 1 cup low fat cottage cheese and 1 whole wheat bagel(low fat cream cheese) with flax oil . It makes me really full but then again I'm an ecto so I need to train even harder than a meso would just to gain muscle.
 
pistonpump said:
im pretty sure bobo said that it doesnt matter what type of carbs are taken pwo, they will be taken the same way the body will take the carbs up as it needs. of course not in those words but i believe something along those lines. if im wrong plz dont ban me!
Click to expand...

Lol you wont be banned. First reason is you're a gold member which automatically adds to the AM forum revenue of $19.99 a year, it makes you an instant asset. Second reason is you're allowed to be wrong here. Some people correct or help you politely while others act like diccks and insult you, will not mention names!!! :duel:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top