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Primordial Perf said:
A bottle of Phyto-Test will last 4 weeks at the full dose.

The price will be $59. We have a minimal supply and its a minimal markup for us so we are limiting the number of discounts, tester bottles, ect.

-Pp
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Understood. I think I may have to score some when it becomes available. I have yet to be let down with any of your products.
 
ncangey0513 said:
Excellent. I'll read up on that. :) I'll definitely be giving it a try.

Let me get this straight; this is a powder to be mixed in a drink? Not topical?

The more I look at your products, the more intrigued I become. :)
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I'm with you man, Primordial Performance has quickly become one of my favorite supplement companies. Havn't been looking forward to the release of a supplement this much in a long time!
 
Is the super man food complex still comin out in 08?sounds interesting-is it like an MRP of sort?or powder like toco-8?
 
phantom said:
Is the super man food complex still comin out in 08?sounds interesting-is it like an MRP of sort?or powder like toco-8?
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It’s a powdered egg embryo product, that became too expensive once we started looking closer at the cost... so we are re-evaluating the formula.

We would have been looking at about $150 retail for a month’s supply... not exactly on everyones budget.

-Pp
 
Thats understandable-I also read on the website about anti acne and wrinkle creams..very cool idea.Will there be any scar treatment creams?
 
phantom said:
Thats understandable-I also read on the website about anti acne and wrinkle creams..very cool idea.Will there be any scar treatment creams?
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I know that a few of the ingredients have good wound healing ability, but Im not sure if this would transfer to scar reduction... perhaps.

-Pp
 
Mr. Pp,

Did you respond to the requests for Transderm GH?

Just wondering...

Amor Est Vitae Essentia,

Neoborn
 
neoborn said:
Mr. Pp,

Did you respond to the requests for Transderm GH?

Just wondering...

Amor Est Vitae Essentia,

Neoborn
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I never seen any impressive GH ingredients that would be too useful in a topical. A basic oral combo of arginine, ornithine, lysine, and L-dopa is probably the best Gh booster around... still not very exciting though.

-Pp
 
Primordial Perf said:
I never seen any impressive GH ingredients that would be too useful in a topical. A basic oral combo of arginine, ornithine, lysine, and L-dopa is probably the best Gh booster around... still not very exciting though.

-Pp
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Pubmed states GABA to be reasonably effective at raising sleep time HGH. GABA would possibly make it so LDOPA does not force me awake (which I imagine is bad for HGH release... lol).
 
universal kits old pGH-t product used GABA, GABOB, and damn I can't recall the 3rd ingredient offhand. Glutamine ethyl ester? something odd. I'll have to look for it.
 
Primordial Perf said:
The demand will probably exceed the supply, so for now we are going to limit the number of testers.

Outside Backer,

Keep an eye out for a special deal in the beginning of the year. ;-)

Faustus,

Yes, Phyto-Test should stack fine with resveratrol or Sustain alpha.

-Pp
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credit cards have zero balance and ready to be charged lol
 
PP,

If one were to pulse Anavar for around 10-12 weeks, would a pct consisting of the new dermacrine sustain apha, phytotest and post cycle support suffice? Or should an serm still be included? Albeit, low dosed?

Also, if using transdermal E-form during the cycle, should I only start my derm upon cessation of the e-form(i.e. only for my pct) Or could I do a plit of say 5-6 weeks of e-form eod and then 5-6 weeks dermacrine sust for the remainder of the cycle + the duration of my pct.

Finally, is this also applicable to straight cycling var and test without an serm during pct, or is that asking for too much out of the products?

Thanks
 
GeneticX said:
PP,

If one were to pulse Anavar for around 10-12 weeks, would a post cycle therapy consisting of the new dermacrine sustain apha, phytotest and post cycle support suffice? Or should an serm still be included? Albeit, low dosed?

Also, if using transdermal E-form during the cycle, should I only start my derm upon cessation of the e-form(i.e. only for my post cycle therapy) Or could I do a plit of say 5-6 weeks of e-form eod and then 5-6 weeks dermacrine sust for the remainder of the cycle + the duration of my post cycle therapy.

Finally, is this also applicable to straight cycling var and test without an serm during post cycle therapy, or is that asking for too much out of the products?

Thanks
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I would not pulse Anavar for 12 weeks. To me, that’s no different to just using anavar for 12 weeks. You’re going to virtually get the same shutdown and the same cholesterol damage. (I’m assuming you’re talking about the real deal?)

Stick to a 4-6 week blast cycle. Go high, something like 60-80mg day. Then, get on the Sustain for PCT the day you drop the Anavar. Phyto-test has not shown to be inhibitory but we don’t know if it’s actually going to increase Total T so if anything it would be a good anti-cortisol muscle preserving supplement. I doubt you would lose any of your gains if you used it after the cycle, along with the Sustian. It’s all I would use personally for PCT. (along with Toco-8)

Don’t do the e-form with the anavar since your E levels will already be suppressed from the Anavar usage. If you want to kick up the gains a bit then stack Dermacrine with the Anavar, and THEN maybe the e-form if you want dryer gains.

All new products will be available for sale tomorrow. (the 3rd)

-Pp
 
Thanks for the prompt reply PP. I take it by your response that You do not ascribe to the (3xweek) pulse method. If You don't mind me asking, what led You to the conclusion that straight cycling a high dose of var for 4-6 weeks is no different, in terms of derived side effects, than pulsing for a lengthier amount of time? Wouldn't using a lower dose coupled with the use of derm sustain on off days be congruous and far more conducive to reducing cholesterol damage and hpta suppression than a complete ed high dosing blitz? And, yes, I am talking about the real article (pharmaceutical grade) Var. Would Your stance change at all if straight cycling var with test? Still no serm? If the latter cycle should be undertaken, then a very minor dose of arimidex would be utilised throughout the cycle on an irregular basis, so as to keep E in check without compromising lipids too much; As I wouldn't opt for a full blast cycle with var alone;an injectable test would need to be included as well.
It really would be spectacular if I could circumvent serm use by using your products as an effective alternative. Or at the very least use only a minute amount of it in conjunction with your line.
 
GeneticX said:
Thanks for the prompt reply PP. I take it by your response that You do not ascribe to the (3xweek) pulse method. If You don't mind me asking, what led You to the conclusion that straight cycling a high dose of var for 4-6 weeks is no different, in terms of derived side effects, than pulsing for a lengthier amount of time? Wouldn't using a lower dose coupled with the use of derm sustain on off days be congruous and far more conducive to reducing cholesterol damage and hpta suppression than a complete ed high dosing blitz? And, yes, I am talking about the real article (pharmaceutical grade) Var. Would Your stance change at all if straight cycling var with test? Still no serm? If the latter cycle should be undertaken, then a very minor dose of arimidex would be utilised throughout the cycle on an irregular basis, so as to keep E in check without compromising lipids too much; As I wouldn't opt for a full blast cycle with var alone;an injectable test would need to be included as well.
It really would be spectacular if I could circumvent serm use by using your products as an effective alternative. Or at the very least use only a minute amount of it in conjunction with your line.
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I don’t have a study abstract to throw at you, but I’ve got my own personal experience with the drug and non-existent HDL levels on my cholesterol readings even weeks after discontinuation of use, so the cholesterol damaging effects arnt something you can avoid by just skipping a dose EOD. Anavar is pretty suppressive stuff too, so I don’t think any kind of pulse would prevent suppression. The only time a think a pulse may be useful is possibly to mitigate side effects from a harsh drug. (by keeping serum levels from building up, maybe useful for epi)

Think of it this way, If your cheating on your girl 3x a week, does it make a difference if you were doing it every day of the week? It’s still cheating, and just as damaging.

Anyway, I think Var and Test is a great combo. That’s why I recommended Dermacrine (as a replacement for Test). You could also use hCG during the cycle as a replacement for test if you wanted the easiest PCT of your life. Something like 250iu hCG twice a week would be comparable to 250mg of test enanthate per week – good enough for solid clean gains.

In either case (Test, hCG, or Dermacrine) I think the arimidex or e-form would be a good idea.

-Pp
 
PP, please do update us here with any Phytotest information as it comes in.. very interested in stacking it with Sustain Alpha for my next go-around in a few weeks.

And as a tac-on question... is there anything to be gained by taking Toco-8 for just test levels? I of course see that one of it's main eye-catchers is the hair rejuvenation traits, but I read about how it raises LH and could potentially make a good addition to the stack. However I'm curious if there is any overlap between it and the others...
 
Highlanda01602 said:
PP, please do update us here with any Phytotest information as it comes in.. very interested in stacking it with Sustain Alpha for my next go-around in a few weeks.

And as a tac-on question... is there anything to be gained by taking Toco-8 for just test levels? I of course see that one of it's main eye-catchers is the hair rejuvenation traits, but I read about how it raises LH and could potentially make a good addition to the stack. However I'm curious if there is any overlap between it and the others...
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Yes, Toco-8 would stack very well with virtually any T booster.

Imagine Sustain Alpha being the “squeeze” for the LH & FSH pulse in the brain. So, if low levels of LH are present in the pituitary gland, then low amounts of LH will be secreted when it is “squeezed”. Using Toco-8 will help prevent this problem by increasing your LH & FSH reservoir in the pituitary gland. Increasing the concentration of LH & FSH in the pituitary will ensure there is enough LH & FSH available in the pituitary for a strong LH & FSH pulse.

Toco-8 may not be a super T booster on its own, but for added insurance it can certainly help make sure you are getting the most from your T boosting sups.

-Pp
 
Pp....has there been anybody that has taken your Phyto-test including yourself that could attest to the claims of its muscle building capabilties? I imagine you'd have tested this product before rushing out to be sold with such bold claims.
 
json75 said:
Pp....has there been anybody that has taken your Phyto-test including yourself that could attest to the claims of its muscle building capabilties? I imagine you'd have tested this product before rushing out to be sold with such bold claims.
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Yes, but I bet my testaments wouldn’t count for much.. ;-0

Keep in mind that both of these ingredients have been on the market for awhile. Ive known a number of guys (including myself) who have gained a good solid 8 or 10 lbs from high-dose methoxy, plus there is some solid human research that has proven ergonomic benefits.

I believe we are the first company to combine the two ingredients at such a high dose, and we believe there is a synergy between them. I really don’t see the claims being so wild considering what is in the product.

Speaking of bold claims... I have a few questions for the Muscle Tech team....

-Pp
 
As another question for Phyto-test...
How long should the cycle be? I was considering running it with Sustain Alpha... in my limited experience with methoxy, cycling wasn't an issue as it didn't lose effectiveness. But this of course has testofen, which I'm going to assume is best in 4 or 6 week cycles? I see the Phytotest bottle lasts 30 days at the recommended dosage...

Secondly, when is it best to take Phyto-test? The testofen would have me guessing pre-workout and then between meals later on in the day, but it is to my understanding that methoxy increases protein synthesis and would be useless if not taken with a solid meal?

And lastly - I know your info on this is still somewhat rolling in with additional testing but - is there a current stack that would really optimize it's effects? I was reading how it did not raises total T, but rather the effectiveness of so? So in theory of course if you raise total T with other compounds, it would have an even better synergistic effect. I was originally planning on Sustain Alpha, but Activate Xtreme and other ideas come to mind. Just really not too sure how to optimize it's effects...

Thanks
 
I agree Muscle-Tech is out of line with their marketing, but thats exactly the reason they get no respect, despite the fact that their products work for the most part....

I really WANT to believe that Phyto-test is what you claim it to be, however myself and countless others have been burned and made to feel like a fool putting hope into products endorsed with false claims....

I have used Dermacrine Sustain in the past as a stand alone test booster and was very unimpressed....although I will say that I had a hard time throwing the cool looking empty bottle away...:}

Sorry for sounding jaded but I've been lifting for more than half my life and have been suckered into buying things like Boron, colustrum, HMB...god, to look back its embarrassing really.

Would you consider Phyto-Test your best mass building product?

If you were to compare Phyto-Test to the available prohormones (i know its not one) today what would you compare it to in terms of gains.....like 20mgs Epi/day for a month?

I've heard people make claims that Fenugreek may have estrogenic type sides, do you think a light AI would be recommended to enhance Phyto-Test?

I will end up buying this (phyto-Test) cause despite being F'd over so many times I still WANT to believe that there is hope for new effective products that work...

Thank You
 
Highlanda01602 said:
As another question for Phyto-test...
How long should the cycle be? I was considering running it with Sustain Alpha... in my limited experience with methoxy, cycling wasn't an issue as it didn't lose effectiveness. But this of course has testofen, which I'm going to assume is best in 4 or 6 week cycles? I see the Phytotest bottle lasts 30 days at the recommended dosage...

Secondly, when is it best to take Phyto-test? The testofen would have me guessing pre-workout and then between meals later on in the day, but it is to my understanding that methoxy increases protein synthesis and would be useless if not taken with a solid meal?

And lastly - I know your info on this is still somewhat rolling in with additional testing but - is there a current stack that would really optimize it's effects? I was reading how it did not raises total T, but rather the effectiveness of so? So in theory of course if you raise total T with other compounds, it would have an even better synergistic effect. I was originally planning on Sustain Alpha, but Activate Xtreme and other ideas come to mind. Just really not too sure how to optimize it's effects...

Thanks
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We recommend a 4-8 week cycle with the Phyto-Test. We think stacking it with Dermacrine would produce the most dramatic gains, but if you want to stay more natural then Sustain would be a good choice. (Or AX)

It should be dosed twice daily to keep blood levels elevated. You could even dose 3x daily if you had the commitment to it. The slow round-the-clock accrual of protein synthesis is what the product is for, not so much an immediate pre or post workout blast.

Json,

I’m sorry to hear about your experience with Sustain. What exactly where you expecting from the product? We try not to market it as a “muscle builder”, but more so a sexual enhancer.

I personally don’t have much experience with the pro-hormones released over the past few years. As far as gains, Id made the comparison to a light Test cycle as I felt the gain in lean mass would be comparable with Phyto-Test. I think it’s very important to understand your body, and your natural limitation before trying something new. I always like to incorporate something new when I know I’ve reached a plateau so I can easily quantify the gains.

-Pp
 
Primordial Perf said:
We recommend a 4-8 week cycle with the Phyto-Test. We think stacking it with Dermacrine would produce the most dramatic gains, but if you want to stay more natural then Sustain would be a good choice. (Or AX)

It should be dosed twice daily to keep blood levels elevated. You could even dose 3x daily if you had the commitment to it. The slow round-the-clock accrual of protein synthesis is what the product is for, not so much an immediate blast pre or post workout blast.

Json,

I’m sorry to hear about your experience with Sustain. What exactly where you expecting from the product? We try not to market it as a “muscle builder”, but more so a sexual enhancer.

I personally don’t have much experience with the pro-hormones released over the past few years. As far as gains, Id made the comparison to a light Test cycle as I felt the gain in lean mass would be comparable with Phyto-Test. I think it’s very important to understand your body, and your natural limitation before trying something new. I always like to incorporate something new when I know I’ve reached a plateau so I can easily quantify the gains.

-Pp
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good post Eric
how to take that?
Actually i do have a very good experience with sustain and that's why i decide to give phyto-test a try.
 
davidcyt said:
good post Eric
how to take that?
Actually i do have a very good experience with sustain and that's why i decide to give phyto-test a try.
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Absolutely - very informative, and much appreciated! (as always! no suprise here with PP).
One last question to pester you with - unsure if the dosings should be taken with or without food. Thinking dosing with breakfast and with dinner (or even lunch too, tee hee heeee).
 
json75 said:
json75 said:
I will end up buying this (phyto-Test) cause despite being F'd over so many times I still WANT to believe that there is hope for new effective products that work...

Thank You
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Don't be hard on yourself bro, we all live there. It's all about the gains etc.

I would say that the gains are highly relative on many different factors. Yes it can be simple but there is so much background information missing from what you did. I honestly think that if you have the fundamentals down you should make some good gains with only food. I would not put all your faith into supplementation because that's exactly what they are "in addition to" your already great diet, workout strategy, sleep etc etc

And to be honest even something that works well for most doesn't work for all....s'all about dynamics and listening to your body, analysing and finding what works for you, though most fundamentals will work and be found true for most.

You could hold off until you see feedback from people etc or buy, your choice.

btw how old are you? I would hope you're not 18 using a test boster and expecting miracles.

For posterity:


1. Workout hard - There are many different workout regimes, many that work well. Generally: Strength training is in the 6 rep range / Bodybuilding in the 8-10 rep range. - Rep range warmup: 15 ( sets 1 & 2 ) Working: 10, 8, 6 last three sets add drop sets to failure )

2. Fast Efficient Workouts = 1hr -Invalid Link Removed

3. Protein shake immediately after workout and then protein meal with carbs etc within 1hr

4. Creatine - Mono or CEE you decide. Both before and after workout.

5. Daily meals - 5 - 6 day ( including shakes ) protein = 1g per pound of body weight. Meal 1 ( breakies ) is shake plus oatmeal or whatever else you want ( apple is good fibre / system crap mover ), Meal 6 is post workout shake with creatine etc and then solid food meal. Carbs tapered down from morning to evening and fats tapered up from morning to evening. Protein is a constant.

6. Sleep 8 - 10 hrs a night ( very imp for all natural BB'ers )

7. Supps - Do you note the order in which these are and where supps come??? - a) Multivitamin / B complex b) Whey protein c) creatine e) Test boosters / stacks etc

Most importantly do you see the order of these things?

Exercises: Compound movements i.e. two arm two leg exercises.

1. Squats - Biggest muscle and boosts test like crazy, work em hard and see results big time.

2. Deadlifts / Chins / Bent over Rows / Pulldowns - 1st attempt either an palm up or palm down chin at the beginning of your back workout, if you can do one, try two, if you can do 15, add weight. Most important for back is to make the mind / muscle connection. Concentrate ( start with low weight and excellent form ) on getting a good contraction and not swinging with the weight. Calm controlled up down with good squeeze of lats at bottom of rep. All about the connection / squeeze

3. Leg press

4. Flat Bench Dumbell / Barbell - Always swap it up, it takes more muscle etc to do dumbells ( stabilizing muscles etc ) but switch it up - Start with dips to hit lower chest then move to flat bench / incline.

5. Core work - Abs / lower back - work the weaker harder.

This should give you a good idea....Best thing for test.....squats ....good form, warm up well, be careful and grow!
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Highlanda01602 said:
Absolutely - very informative, and much appreciated! (as always! no suprise here with PP).
One last question to pester you with - unsure if the dosings should be taken with or without food. Thinking dosing with breakfast and with dinner (or even lunch too, tee hee heeee).
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It wont really matter either way if taken with food... but it may be best to take before eating when your buccal cavity is most absorbent to lipids. (ie, the product will absorb better)

-Pp
 
Neoborn.....My point with the questions towards Pp is that they claimed earlier in the thread that Phyto-Test can give results that are on par with 400-500mg wkly test injections....

Thats a huge bold claim, and to be honest Im wondering why every one here is so passive about it....I mean come on, 500mgs of test is crazy....1/2 gram of test...weekly....and nobody questions it....

I've been lifting for more than half my life (32) and have bought everything from boron to Colustrum all with claims as bold as this......I mean think about it, remember walking into GNC in the early 90's, or read an old bodybuilding magazine and read some of the adds, I mean its funny giving what we know now.
 
json75 said:
Neoborn.....My point with the questions towards Pp is that they claimed earlier in the thread that Phyto-Test can give results that are on par with 400-500mg wkly test injections....

Thats a huge bold claim, and to be honest Im wondering why every one here is so passive about it....I mean come on, 500mgs of test is crazy....1/2 gram of test...weekly....and nobody questions it....

I've been lifting for more than half my life (32) and have bought everything from boron to Colustrum all with claims as bold as this......I mean think about it, remember walking into GNC in the early 90's, or read an old bodybuilding magazine and read some of the adds, I mean its funny giving what we know now.
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I feel ya man, I know and understand where your coming from. Some companies run their mouth's so bad - it gets disgusting at times. Read the propietary list to the new MuscleTech product (the one with the "jet-pulverising, hammer-milling, cyrogenic ingredients.. not joking, that's what they list).
However, Primordial Performance has a solid reputation, and has my backing with personal experience. The metaphor to actual injectable test definitly does sound like a stretch. I mean 500mg is the staple steroid cycle if there ever was one, and how can something that isn't even a heavy pro-hormone do so! But on the otherhand, I'm giving PP the benefit of the doubt. Fenotest has some mixed reviews, but in the favorable ones, the users have absolutely loved it. My guess - the negative reviews came from users with improper programs/diets/whatever. Methoxy was a huge hit a while back, and some users, again, had incredibly favorable results. With a larger and more potent dose, I'm willing to put some a good 100 dollars for it for two bottles... in a few weeks haha!

I do agree with you though, I too have run through supplements that just have the most embarrasing claims. PP gets my benefit of the doubt though however, as their other products have led to some serious real-world results. As long as things go properly for myself in the next few weeks, I'll definitly be giving it a shot alongside another cycle of Dermacrine.
 
json75 said:
Neoborn.....My point with the questions towards Pp is that they claimed earlier in the thread that Phyto-Test can give results that are on par with 400-500mg wkly test injections....

Thats a huge bold claim, and to be honest Im wondering why every one here is so passive about it....I mean come on, 500mgs of test is crazy....1/2 gram of test...weekly....and nobody questions it....

I've been lifting for more than half my life (32) and have bought everything from boron to Colustrum all with claims as bold as this......I mean think about it, remember walking into GNC in the early 90's, or read an old bodybuilding magazine and read some of the adds, I mean its funny giving what we know now.
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For me that would be an accurate statement. I personally don’t get extraordinary gains from 500mg/week Test anymore. I was a heavy user back in the day so to me 500mg/week is a “lighter” dose, where it may be a high dose for someone else more sensitive to the effects of androgens who may gain 25-30lbs off that much testosterone.

So in that respect, the phyto-test probably isn’t going to produce the same incredible gains...

-Pp
 
Screw gains. My question is: will Toco-8 really grow hair? :D

WTF is my 'buccal cavity', anyway? :lol:
 
Primordial Perf said:
For me that would be an accurate statement. I personally don’t get extraordinary gains from 500mg/week Test anymore. I was a heavy user back in the day so to me 500mg/week is a “lighter” dose, where it may be a high dose for someone else more sensitive to the effects of androgens who may gain 25-30lbs off that much testosterone.

So in that respect, the phyto-test probably isn’t going to produce the same incredible gains...

-Pp
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I agree with you here as i have a very high tolerance to anything. Phs, Real gear, fatburners, anything and 500mgs-600mgs of test prop a week for me did diddly. Pumps that were on par with the best creatine concoction out at that point. So i agree when you say it just depends on the person just like with any supplement!

Im very eager to try this stuff though thats for sure!
 
Very nice additions if that phyto test doesn't shut you down you will have a hell of a product on your hands. Also the sustain alpha looks very interesting as well I haven't had the pleasure of trying the original version but with the great reviews you've peaked my interests.
 
I would be amazed if the Toco 8 really grew hair, i have been balding since about 15 years old, if this stuff gets good feedback I am all over it. ::dreaming of hair blowing in the breeze::
 
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