Guest viewing limit reached
  • You have reached the maximum number of guest views allowed
  • Please register below to remove this limitation

Proposed cutting cycle

Xodus

Xodus

Well-known member
Looking for some input on the following cycle:


weeks 1-4 Prop - 150mg EOD
Weeks 1-8 1,4AD(NP Bulk) - 600mg x2 ED
weeks 1-11 400mg EQ - 200mg E3D
weeks 1-12 500mg Cyp - 250mg E3D
*weeks 11-14 30mg Superdrol - 10mg x3 ED
weeks 1-14 Letrozole - .25mg EOD
weeks 14-18 Nolva -40/40/30/20 ED


** weeks 3-7 & 9-12 250iu HCG EOD
*** weeks 2-14 Nolva 10mg/day


* May bookend with Test Prop instead of superdrol for final weeks (12-14) if I don't mind the pain/pinning.
I want to get away from methylated orals, and will decide if I like pinning that often, but Superdrol
also leaned me up/filled me out nicely so I am hoping that helps solidify the gains at the end.

** Depending on Testicular Atrophy
*** Depending on gyno sides, if necessary.

Testicular atrophy and gyno have never been an issue for me on previous cycles, but I am going to have extra Nolva on hand.
I will be ready to purchase hcg if neccessary, to plump the boys back up.

I'm sorta proud of my big balls and my girl is a nurse, so if she sees raisin nuts, she's gonna get clued in.
I want to keep the bloat to an absolute minimum and hope that the Letro can do that.

I considered var, but would like to contain the cost (due to christmas 'bills', I mean gifts)


Stats:

Age: 34
Height: 6'4"
Weight: 280
BF%: ~18% (yeah I know)

Cycle History:
Orals only/Never pinned
Several PH cycles back in the mid-late 90's
4 week superdrol clone 20/30/30/40
5 week Epidrol 40/40/40/40/40


Goals:

Strictly looking to recomp and regain strength. I am not looking to add 'scale weight',
just lean up/harden up/drop the 'luv chub' that I have accumulated.
I carry my fat on my lower abs (bottom 2-3") and love handles.

Long-term goal, I would like to maintain at ~260#/10%.



Diet:

Currently 4500-5000 cals (non-training/training days)
I will eat at maintenance or just slightly above depending on what the EQ does to my appetite.

Here is a good breakdown of what I eat on a regular basis:

Invalid Link Removed

Invalid Link Removed


I have been transitioning towards the Anabolic/Metabolic Diet so 'what' I eat and my macros will change to reflect that.
I am hoping to be fully converted to this diet prior to the cycle's start so I will be in full blown fat burning mode.



Training:

Had 'worked out' through high school (6'4" @ 187 yikes!), but when I started 'training' and eating correctly I grew like mad.
Career/women/life/injuries got in the way and I stopped training seriously for a few years (off and on, few months at a time).

I have been consistent again(diet/routine) for over a year now and am back on track for the long haul, only taking 'scheduled' breaks
and have regained most of what I had. Muscle memory is a wonderful thing.

I am currently back on a 5x5 program. All compound with 1-2 accessory lifts.
4-5 days/week 3on 1off 2on 1off but sometimes life gets in the way.

I just finished 6 weeks of an 8x8 @ 60%1RM program and added some size without sacrificing much strength.
I just took a few days off after it as the low rest (15s) and high volume kicked the sh!t out of my CNS.

I am going to do the 5x5 up until the cycle starts, then I will calculate my 1RM off the last numbers
and change it up with 3x3 @ 90%,5x5 @ 75% & 8x8 @ 60% days to see how my body responds to the randomness.

I would also like to start incorporating in some of the DC stretches.


I hate cardio, but I do some NEPA several times a week (long walks with the dog).



Support Supps:

Multi
10g fish oils
Cycle Support
Cissus
True Protein's 'Buzz Saw' and 'Beta Focus' for creatine, bcaa's, beta alanine, etc.
Bulk Powerfull/Melatonin for enhanced sleep
Bulk Nettle Root will be added for the cycle/pct.


PCT: (In addition to 'support supps')
Lean Xtreme 2.0
DTHC
Nolva 40/40/30/20


I would appreciate suggestions, thoughts, ramblings, changes, ideas?


I hope to kick '08 off with a poke. :blink:

X
 
Dude that cycle looks badass!!! It may be overkill with the letro everyday though. I would do a eod personally. Eliminating too much estro will have bad effects on lipids. I would try it and see how you feel. It looks similar to my cycle actually i did 500test -300eq- 1,4-ad gram,with some random orals.

Im a firm believer in a low nolva dose along with the cycle...helps with lipids,and prevent sides

I also took bulk needle root with my test...this will help keep shbg down. Your body increases production with an increase of test regardless of synthetic or natural production.I recomend you take it with the cycle.

1,4-ad wasn't as great as everyone hyped it,but with EQ it will be great
 
Looks good. Just use the HCG though, it should make PCT that much easier. You could always throw in some clen or IGF in PCT too.

Good luck, lotta pinning for your first but should see better results with this set up.
 
Travis said:
Looks good. Just use the HCG though, it should make post cycle therapy that much easier. You could always throw in some clen or IGF in PCT too.

Good luck, lotta pinning for your first but should see better results with this set up.
Click to expand...

Is my hcg timing ok? 4 weeks on 2 weeks off 4 weeks on?

X
 
TripDog said:
Dude that cycle looks badass!!!

It may be overkill with the letro everyday though. I would do a eod personally. Eliminating too much estro will have bad effects on lipids. I would try it and see how you feel. It looks similar to my cycle actually i did 500test -300eq- 1,4-ad gram,with some random orals.

Im a firm believer in a low nolva dose along with the cycle...helps with lipids,and prevent sides

I also took bulk needle root with my test...this will help keep shbg down. Your body increases production with an increase of test regardless of synthetic or natural production.I recomend you take it with the cycle.

1,4-ad wasn't as great as everyone hyped it,but with EQ it will be great
Click to expand...


I will change the letro to EOD, same dosage unless I need to bump it to .5mg.

After reading about everyone's results with 1,4AD, I thought about pitching it, but figured this would be a good place to use it instead.

And I will add in the nettle root.

Thanks,

X
 
Gixxer82 said:
Definitely a lot of pinning, but you get some good experience. I pinned ED for 10 weeks, now i'm a pro.
Click to expand...

:blink:

Yeah, but you are crazy. :rofl:
no thanks. I think my 'nurse' would get a little suspicious.


X
 
Travis said:
Actually it would be better just to run the last 8 weeks of the cycle. Stopping the HCG the last week the ester clears.
Click to expand...


Ok, makes sense.


Thanks again,

X
 
Aside from everything mentioned, you will need to monitor your blood pressure VERY strictly, I would say no less than 3 times/day.

Also, your prostate will be under a lot of stress here, try bulk nettle and saw palmetto on cycle, and make sure you check with a physician post pct.
 
It looks like a very well planned out cycle. I agree with starting the HCG when travis said, and running it until the end of the cycle. This will really help in recovery (ball size aside.)....

Have you considered changing Letro with a more libido friendly AI?

Also, RisingAgainst....I read an article claiming no conclusive evidence to prostate problems related to supplementing with testosterone. (it was over on mesomorphosis)...The nettle and saw palmetto should help though

I am going to incorporate bulk nettle root from now on when using gear, along with cycle support and my various other health supplements.

Keep an eye on your BP, But i think it has more to do with YOU and what YOU are sensitive to, and how YOU react, than it does to the gear. see how it treats you. idk if you have to watch it three times a day becuase you can feel when your BP is high (there are symptoms and causes)....check it if it becomes a problem.

personally, I have found TEST and EQ to be quite mild on my system... Im using 1g test enth and 750mg EQ right now and my blood pressure is 117/81. Skin is clear, gains are steady, but I am going to stick with shorter esters for future cycles. I think it will be easier to control hormone levels, kickoff, and end cycles. Also, The gains should be much more controllable.
 
pudzian2 said:
It looks like a very well planned out cycle. I agree with starting the HCG when travis said, and running it until the end of the cycle. This will really help in recovery (ball size aside.)....

Have you considered changing Letro with a more libido friendly AI?

Also, RisingAgainst....I read an article claiming no conclusive evidence to prostate problems related to supplementing with testosterone. (it was over on mesomorphosis)...The nettle and saw palmetto should help though

I am going to incorporate bulk nettle root from now on when using gear, along with cycle support and my various other health supplements.

Keep an eye on your BP, But i think it has more to do with YOU and what YOU are sensitive to, and how YOU react, than it does to the gear. see how it treats you. idk if you have to watch it three times a day becuase you can feel when your BP is high (there are symptoms and causes)....check it if it becomes a problem.

personally, I have found TEST and EQ to be quite mild on my system... Im using 1g test enth and 750mg EQ right now and my blood pressure is 117/81. Skin is clear, gains are steady, but I am going to stick with shorter esters for future cycles. I think it will be easier to control hormone levels, kickoff, and end cycles. Also, The gains should be much more controllable.
Click to expand...


I had considered Adex vs Letro, but I am really concerned about bloat and e-conversion due to higher bf%. I realize Letro is damn efficient at knocking out estrogen and the potential for non-existent libido is there (not a good thing w/ the woman). Would adex be a little more libido friendly? I've never tried either of them, so I don't know what it's going to do to me.

I do have prostate and BP concerns and will be adding in Saw Palmetto and Celery Seed(probably should take it regularly anyway).

I think I will be adding the hcg and others had mentioned the possibility of IGF 1-LR3 in PCT and will look into that (prices have skyrocketed though).

Thanks,

X
 
Xodus said:
I had considered Adex vs Letro, but I am really concerned about bloat and e-conversion due to higher bf%. I realize Letro is damn efficient at knocking out estrogen and the potential for non-existent libido is there (not a good thing w/ the woman). Would adex be a little more libido friendly? I've never tried either of them, so I don't know what it's going to do to me.

I do have prostate and BP concerns and will be adding in Saw Palmetto and Celery Seed(probably should take it regularly anyway).

I think I will be adding the hcg and others had mentioned the possibility of IGF 1-LR3 in post cycle therapy and will look into that (prices have skyrocketed though).

Thanks,

X
Click to expand...

prices on IGF-1 are slowly coming down. I loved it for kicking a cycle off, and I will be using it again in Post Cycle.

Have you considered aromasin for an AI. I am using it at 12.5mg ED, and have minimized bloat and any e-conversion. I had small lumps under nipples (from an earlier ph cycle i think) and they are actually shrinking! aromasin is supposed to be the mildest on the lipids and liver as well..

I think the prostate thing is overblown...men with higher testosterone are not more prone to prostate cancer or a benign growth. i would use herbs to protect it just as a general means of bodybuilding lifestyle, but I wouldnt stress too much about it on cycle unless your bloodwork determines you need to be or you have some condition or other reason.

it is also not an issue I've heard ALOT about from experienced users, from the pro and competitive scene. I know it is not something to ignore...but i'm fairly convinced as of now that its not too bad of a concern
 
pudzian2 said:
prices on IGF-1 are slowly coming down. I loved it for kicking a cycle off, and I will be using it again in Post Cycle.

Have you considered aromasin for an AI. I am using it at 12.5mg ED, and have minimized bloat and any e-conversion. I had small lumps under nipples (from an earlier ph cycle i think) and they are actually shrinking! aromasin is supposed to be the mildest on the lipids and liver as well..

I think the prostate thing is overblown...men with higher testosterone are not more prone to prostate cancer or a benign growth. i would use herbs to protect it just as a general means of bodybuilding lifestyle, but I wouldnt stress too much about it on cycle unless your bloodwork determines you need to be or you have some condition or other reason.

it is also not an issue I've heard ALOT about from experienced users, from the pro and competitive scene. I know it is not something to ignore...but i'm fairly convinced as of now that its not too bad of a concern
Click to expand...

There is family history of prostate problems. I don't have any issues right now, but it is in the back of my mind.

I think I remember reading that the general thought is now swinging from T to E as the cause of prostate problems in men.


Aromasin looks to be pretty decent. Gentler on lipids, liver, IGF, and increases test(bonus).

Thanks for the suggestion.

Good to hear about the gyno reduction too!
How is it on your libido?

X
 
Pudz im dyin to see some new pics!!
 
Xodus said:
There is family history of prostate problems. I don't have any issues right now, but it is in the back of my mind.

I think I remember reading that the general thought is now swinging from T to E as the cause of prostate problems in men.


Aromasin looks to be pretty decent. Gentler on lipids, liver, IGF, and increases test(bonus).

Thanks for the suggestion.

Good to hear about the gyno reduction too!
How is it on your libido?

X
Click to expand...


My libido seems to be good. It was skyrocketing before I introduced the AI, then it stabilized. Other than that, no complaints or any real problems with my cycle strategies thus far.

I agree that E is the new focus for prostate issues. the less adipose tissue, the less E.....so i suppose it helps to be cut! lol
 
pudzian2 said:
My libido seems to be good. It was skyrocketing before I introduced the AI, then it stabilized. Other than that, no complaints or any real problems with my cycle strategies thus far.

I agree that E is the new focus for prostate issues. the less adipose tissue, the less E.....so i suppose it helps to be cut! lol
Click to expand...

Thanks and I am working on it.

:donut:
 
Increased estrogen on cycle coupled w/ conversion to some DHT can swell the prostate...specifically at MY age and you are approaching that age range as well.

I feel it on a test only cycle IF I don't control estrogen. Also I have experimented w/ a DHT transdermal and while this applied to the nipples is awesome at shrinking gyno it does swell my prostate.

So I know both contribute.

I use Saw Palmetto everyday and subjectively feel that on cycle it reduces prostate swelling by say 40% (I measure this in part by how full my bladder feels). In PCT as things normalize most of the prostate issues go away.

I have never used Nettle Root on cycle or in PCT but I have used it after PCT and I subjectively feel that it is responsible for getting rid of any residual prostate issues and bringing it back to normal.

I'll use both Saw Palmetto (every day) and Nettle Root (in cycles) for the rest of my life mostly for prostate health.

Anyway the way you are controling estrogen aggressively I don't think you will have much of an issue w/ the prostate. If you do don't freak out cus it will subside after your cycle is over.
 
datBtrue said:
Increased estrogen on cycle coupled w/ conversion to some DHT can swell the prostate...specifically at MY age and you are approaching that age range as well.

I feel it on a test only cycle IF I don't control estrogen. Also I have experimented w/ a DHT transdermal and while this applied to the nipples is awesome at shrinking gyno it does swell my prostate.

So I know both contribute.

I use Saw Palmetto everyday and subjectively feel that on cycle it reduces prostate swelling by say 40% (I measure this in part by how full my bladder feels). In post cycle therapy as things normalize most of the prostate issues go away.

I have never used Nettle Root on cycle or in PCT but I have used it after PCT and I subjectively feel that it is responsible for getting rid of any residual prostate issues and bringing it back to normal.

I'll use both Saw Palmetto (every day) and Nettle Root (in cycles) for the rest of my life mostly for prostate health.

Anyway the way you are controling estrogen aggressively I don't think you will have much of an issue w/ the prostate. If you do don't freak out cus it will subside after your cycle is over.
Click to expand...

very interesting, and I agree!
 
Xodus said:
Is my hcg timing ok? 4 weeks on 2 weeks off 4 weeks on?

X
Click to expand...

i like that. THats probably how i would run it making sure it gets run druing the last week before the ester clears.HCG can cause aromatase activity from what ive researched on it.

I would second the idea of eod dosing for the letro if possible if that is the AI you would be using. Like youve probably researched Aromasin has alot of benefiets that the other AIs dont so imo id favor its use on a cycle.

I think you should bump the test up just a tad but thats only because i think alot of guys that do ph and oral cycles in the past need more test or theyll be dissappointed a little. Since you arent really bulking then your doses might be okay but i like 750 test 600 eq and im about 60lbs lighter lol.
 
Last edited:
I am changing a few things up based on suggestions (and sourcing). Stay tuned for a slight revision!

Most notably will be the subbing of Letro for Aromisin and the inclusion of hcg, with the possibility of IGF-1(depending on funds).

X
 
Xodus said:
I am changing a few things up based on suggestions (and sourcing). Stay tuned for a slight revision!

Most notably will be the subbing of Letro for Aromisin and the inclusion of hcg, with the possibility of IGF-1(depending on funds).

X
Click to expand...

if you do not use IGF-1 during your cycle, think about investing for PCT. it makes a huge difference in recovery

also. i agree with PP, I think at your current weight you may like the doses he suggested
 
TripDog said:
Dude that cycle looks badass!!! It may be overkill with the letro everyday though. I would do a eod personally. Eliminating too much estro will have bad effects on lipids. I would try it and see how you feel. It looks similar to my cycle actually i did 500test -300eq- 1,4-ad gram,with some random orals.

Im a firm believer in a low nolva dose along with the cycle...helps with lipids,and prevent sides

I also took bulk needle root with my test...this will help keep shbg down. Your body increases production with an increase of test regardless of synthetic or natural production.I recomend you take it with the cycle.

1,4-ad wasn't as great as everyone hyped it,but with EQ it will be great
Click to expand...

well said.

i would still have your carbs above protein...id drop protein around 350g which is more than enough...carbs in the 500-600 range
 
I've been reading more and more about the possibility of anxiety/panic attacks from EQ. Some say its dose dependent, others say not so much. That is the only thing that weirds me out about upping the dose. I think I will be upping the Cyp bit though.

Any one have any experiences/info they care to share about that?

I get a little 'antsy' in crowds (like crowded malls and stuff) but not something I would describe as a full blown 'panic attack' .

I did have a little bout of depression this past winter, but that was more to do with relationship crap than my 'typical' state of mind.


X
 
Xodus said:
I've been reading more and more about the possibility of anxiety/panic attacks from EQ. Some say its dose dependent, others say not so much.
Any one have any experiences/info they care to share about that?

I get a little 'antsy' in crowds (like crowded malls and stuff) but not something I would describe as a full blown 'panic attack' .



X
Click to expand...

Im a rather tense person too,and i didnt notice any increase in anxiety from EQ.
 
TripDog said:
Im a rather tense person too,and i didnt notice any increase in anxiety from EQ.
Click to expand...

Good to hear. The thought of having to lock myself in my house for 2+ weeks waiting for it to clear doesn't excite me.

:run:

X
 
i used 600mg ew (EQ) and i have my social anxiety tendencies and the like but i cant say i noticed anything from the EQ in that department.
 
Ok, I'll stop panicking... :lol:
Thanks.


X
 
pistonpump said:
how are the veins? I saw huge changes in vascularity with the EQ kicking! Would be sick on a cut.
Click to expand...

I can definitely see a difference, however I am trying to pack on as much weight as i can so I am eating like a mofo (not gaining a significant amount of bf%, but still).....i'm having some mad veinage in the traps when I flex. its sick.
 
Played around with the #'s a little and this is what I've come up with.


Code: 
weeks 1-4    Prop                - 150mg       EOD
weeks 2-5    HCG                 - 250iu       E3D
Weeks 1-8    1,4AD(NP Bulk)      - 1200mg      ED 
weeks 1-11   EQ                  - 300mg       E3D
weeks 1-12   Cyp                 - 300mg       E3D
weeks 8-12   HCG                 - 250iu       E3D
weeks 9-14   IGF1-LR3            - 20mcg       EOD
weeks 11-14  Superdrol           - 30mg        ED
weeks 1-15   Aromasin            - 10mg        EOD

post cycle therapy:
weeks 14-18  Nolva               - 40/40/30/20 ED
weeks 15-18  IGF1-LR3            - 20mcg       ED


DTHC @ 6caps/day for 40 days
Lean Xtreme @ 4caps/day for 45 days

Spreadsheet is attached with better detail. In the 'totals' I'm assuming a 40% conversion rate of the 1,4AD (probably optimistic, but that's what I used).


I found an interesting PCT calculator online and this is the graph it spit out.

Note: This does not take into account the 1,4AD or the Superdrol during the last few weeks.


Invalid Link Removed


It looks like I will be pinning ~something~ just about every day until ~mid-may.

What do you all think? Am I over-complicating this?
 

Attachments

  • cycle_final.zip
    cycle_final.zip
    6.9 KB · Views: 207
  • pctgraph.png
    pctgraph.png
    4.7 KB · Views: 572
that cycle looks really really well planned and i like it. actually i just looked at it again and im wondering why only 300mg cyp, is that an typo?
 
Thats a real legit plan bro, glad to see some people out there do their homework hardcore.

And he means 300mg cyp every 3 days.
 
UnrealMachine said:
Thats a real legit plan bro, glad to see some people out there do their homework hardcore.

And he means 300mg cyp every 3 days.
Click to expand...

Yea it does look awsome..:clap2: I like the 1200mg of 1,4-ad...cause 1000mg didn't do sh*t for me (it was with test/Eq though)

and i like the dose of igf-1lr3......I feel people dose it waaaay to high!!! Considering your body makes less than 1mcg a day.....people are just throwing their money out the window with 40+ mcgs
 
Last edited:
okay. sorry i didnt see that. Very well laid out. Dosages are great too.



for some reason igf and 30mg sdrol does not look good.....
 
UnrealMachine said:
Thats a real legit plan bro, glad to see some people out there do their homework hardcore.

And he means 300mg cyp every 3 days.
Click to expand...

Thanks.

Yeah, 300mg Cyp E3D.
 
pistonpump said:
okay. sorry i didnt see that. Very well laid out. Dosages are great too.



for some reason igf and 30mg sdrol does not look good.....
Click to expand...

What do you mean about the IGF and superdrol? I still have the option of switching superdrol to prop.


Here is what the post cycle therapy graph looks like with the prop bookend.


Invalid Link Removed
 

Attachments

  • prop-bookend.png
    prop-bookend.png
    4.7 KB · Views: 454
well i dont know its just you need igf levels to be high in order to get gyno and with superdrols nature for causing that in some id be cautious but then again i kind of dont agree with sdrol so im kinda biased towards the compound. You dont have a history with gyno problems do you? I take it you have had success with superdrol in the past? If your answer is yes to both of those questions then i would say you should just disregard what i said.
 
pistonpump said:
well i dont know its just you need igf levels to be high in order to get gyno and with superdrols nature for causing that in some id be cautious but then again i kind of dont agree with sdrol so im kinda biased towards the compound. You dont have a history with gyno problems do you? I take it you have had success with superdrol in the past? If your answer is yes to both of those questions then i would say you should just disregard what i said.
Click to expand...

Yeah, no gyno issues in the past <knock on wood>. I think most of the 'delayed onset' gyno reports from superdrol were more rebound related than compound related.


My past run of SD caused slight lethargy, no back pumps, increased vascularity and rapid strength gains, plus it's easy on the my hair!
 
The PCT calculator is located here:

Invalid Link Removed
 
pudzian2 said:
good luck bro. It looks like a very well planned cycle. You should have a great ride with this one
Click to expand...

Thanks. I tend to be a bit anal in some aspects of my life.

Is now a good time to mention that I am scared of needles? :eek:
 
Xodus said:
Thanks. I tend to be a bit anal in some aspects of my life.

Is now a good time to mention that I am scared of needles? :eek:
Click to expand...

well i suppose you just have to get over the hump. Do a few shots and it will be a breeze. Most times I look forward to pinning idk why.'..
 
pudzian2 said:
well i suppose you just have to get over the hump. Do a few shots and it will be a breeze. Most times I look forward to pinning idk why.'..
Click to expand...

I've actually stitched myself up 'rambo-style'. I think I'll do fine. I am really looking forward to the new year!

Kind of an off question, but how does everyone deal with ED pinning, like if I have to travel (by plane) or something?

If I am going someplace by car, I can just preload a few, but with my job, I'm not able to see that far into the future to say that I won't have to travel at some point.
 
Xodus said:
I've actually stitched myself up 'rambo-style'. I think I'll do fine. I am really looking forward to the new year!

Kind of an off question, but how does everyone deal with ED pinning, like if I have to travel (by plane) or something?

If I am going someplace by car, I can just preload a few, but with my job, I'm not able to see that far into the future to say that I won't have to travel at some point.
Click to expand...

I've always wanted to know that. I will be pinning ED with some of my cycles and My GF lives a plane ride away temporarily which blows but even then how does everyone deal with that? How are the pro's flying around everywhere without all their gear?
 
I slacked on getting IGF1-LR3 when it was ~$120 and now its gone again. I will hold off a bit more to see if it becomes available again in the next few weeks at that price, but would there be any benefit/issues with running Peg-MGF instead (other than the price break).

What results are people seeing with this peptide?


EDIT:

Nevermind, I see it's back on the 20th. :woohoo:
 
Xodus said:
I slacked on getting IGF1-LR3 when it was ~$120 and now its gone again. I will hold off a bit more to see if it becomes available again in the next few weeks at that price, but would there be any benefit/issues with running Peg-MGF instead (other than the price break).

What results are people seeing with this peptide?


EDIT:

Nevermind, I see it's back on the 20th. :woohoo:
Click to expand...

Keep in mind "Solvents are no longer sold or included with products".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top