Neoborn's Formestane / EForm FAQ...
- Thread starter neoborn
- Start date
prld2gr8ns
Idiot Savant
It would probably be best if you asked Primordial Perf about the saturation levels in their products. If your only getting around 5-7gr of actives and their molecular weight isn't too high, then you should be able to squeeze 3gr or so in.
thebigt
Legend
i posted a question on their forum and no answer. a little pissed that after 3 days no response, thought this company was customer oriented. oh well, i checked on mw and the carrier is good for 300 same as form. if i dont get a response from them by time i order i will go with pcs, i got no need for unresponsive company's. i dont recommend any company that does'nt have time for customers.
Highlanda01602
Well-known member
bigt, check out this thread for the PM address - Primordial Perf has been checking in on this site several times daily to answer Dermacrine/Sustain questions and inquiries... I bet you'll get a response from him within 24 hours via PM
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/78678-dermacrine-perfect-winter.html
thebigt
Legend
thank you sir, i really am interested in his products. just need to ask a few questions.
prld2gr8ns
Idiot Savant
The guys over at Pp seem to be top notch T. If all else fails just hit'em up with a pm as said. I'm sure they'll get back to you about you inquiry.:thumbsup:
thebigt
Legend
yes, i followed the link provided and got some timely useful info. it would appear sustain is already saturated so thats out. but the link provided easy to follow directions for mixing form [pics included], i recommend first timers check it out. i am currently on a furazadrol cycle and will be doing some combo of form/resveratrol for pct.
thebigt
Legend
i bought 5 bottles. i see it sold out already, sorry bout that.
Menacer
New member
I bought 5 bottles too...
thebigt
Legend
good man! this stuff must have flown off the racks. for $15 this is dollar for dollar the best supplement you can buy.
thebigt
Legend
go to bulk nutrition. under manufacturer look under dermabolics. they have a product review, when you go to e-form hit the review section. this will tell you all you need to know, a ton of reviews and an average of 5 stars. its the highest rated product i have seen. oh yeah, and the price aint bad.
thebigt
Legend
ok, ive probably used 90% of products you are thinking of. i spend a lot on supps. td formestane is a product you can feel working right away. 6oxo/novadex/atd are ok, but formestane was actually a first generation cancer treatment. formestane is the real deal. also unlike other ai's form is good for prostate raises igf and increases libido. imo far superior than the rest.
Skircus7
constant recomp
yep, Form is MUCH better than any of the other AI's /ATD's I've tried.....MUCH
Ninjo
Well-known member
If you run it solo, does it require a PCT? Also, what would stack well with E-form? I have three bottles but have been reluctant to use it as I'm unsure of what it's best use is. I picked them up initially intending to use as an on cycle AI for something like Phera-plex in case nips started getting itchy.
thebigt
Legend
my absolutely favorite is a furazadrol/e-form stack. also stacks real well with divaiil. replace the hdx2 in the ax stack with e-form for a better much cheaper stack. hdx2 has a ridiculous price tag, and in my opinion formestane is much better and way cheaper. no pct required, although some people taper down, i dont.
Ninjo
Well-known member
Cool...I don't have any furazadrol but have been thinking about the following stacks using the stuff I do have on hand:
E-form/4-AD (I have 2 of the Ergopharm bottles left)
E-form/Mega-H (Halodrol clone)
E-form/Phera-plex (this was my original thought)
E-form/Activate (original version)
I think any of the above would make a good stack. Also, I've seen some people talking about stacking e-form and superdrol. I'm not sure this would be a good idea since SD has anti-estrogenic effects; you may be setting yourself up for major rebound issues. What do you think?
thebigt
Legend
dont kid yourself, ive read many reviews of guys getting gyno from sd. i would stay away from superdrol but all the others look good to go.
celc5
Well-known member
I've ran Eform/Hdrol and it was fantastic :head: I'm currently running Eform/Activate in an nha. It's nice but nothing to brag about.
I've been studying phera lately and, if phera is exactly what it's supposed to be (which is a HUGE if nowadays), it CAN'T aromatize according to some reliable sources. The reason I mention this is because an AI won't help ya in the cases with phera. Some speculate a less discussed prolactin pathway but I haven't been able to find many theories or concrete evidence.
Just a warning, i just saw a totally trash log on Halo Mass on another board. Just be aware that not all clones are as effective as the originals since you mentioned the MegaH.
Ninjo
Well-known member
Will the Eform/Activate require some sort of PCT due to form's conversion to a mild androgen?; I think the answer is no but just thought I'd ask. Also, can a similar protocol be run post-PCT and prior to another PH cycle?
With respect to Phera-plex, I have not heard this previously...my impression is that PP is pure desoxy-methyl-test (DMT) which has the potential to aromatize. If you have a couple of links to discussions re: the prolactin implication, please post.
Mega-H was made by Generic Labz which is a company with a solid rep for making clones. I hope the three bottles I have remaining are legit. I started a cycle last summer but had to cut it short due to a stomach infection...so I really didn't get a chance to determine if it is the real deal or not.
thebigt
Legend
celc, it depends on what you are looking for. if mass and strength are what your looking for, probably not going to be impressed with formestane/nha. but if its recomp and toning, then its real nice. as for the warning-remember one thing, just because it has a COA doesnt make it authentic. the labs get paid by the company having the test done. i am not saying all labs are corrupt but money talks.
prld2gr8ns
Idiot Savant
I'd say Mega-H is a good product. Generic always seems to put out quality stuff, so I think it's safe to say you have a decent product.
As for the aromatization pathways... it's kind of funny how thinks like phera, SD, and even M1T have no reported aromatization(at least in VIDA), yet users still report a lot of weight gain, bloat, and even in some cases gyno(although a lot of this I believe is speculative of bloat and the combination of paranoia). Makes me kind of curious as to what causes such user reactions. Is it a prolactin induced pathway like celc mentioned, or does it interfer with the Renin-Angiotensin pathway thru electrolyte shuttling and imbalancing thus leading the body to increase tubule re-absorption of sodium and water resulting in excessive water retention, or does it excert effects in some other manner? Hmmmmm.....
celc5
Well-known member
Ninjo, my opinion is that formestane's mild ph does not require a post cycle plan. I also believe that it could be quite effective as your post cycle AI (although I have yet to run it like this myself), or as you mentioned in a typical nha stack.
Ninjo, sorry no links to the other discussion because it'll get blocked out anyway.
BigT, don't get me wrong, I'm satisfied with my stack. At the same time, no need to over hype as results aren't anything out of the ordinary. Also, I agree with sentiments regarding the COAs.
Prld, I hesitate to recommend designers and ph's unless I've tried the specific batch myself. I understand Generic has a great rep but so do other companies that have VERY popular products that don't turn out to meet label claims.
Also, I like your sodium idea concerning phera. Correct me if I'm wrong... Doesn't sodium tend to accumulate on very superficial cells? Which then would hold water in these areas creating the "puffy" look. Any reason for this to occur in the chest area more than others? Hence the gyno paranoia?
Ninjo, sorry no links to the other discussion because it'll get blocked out anyway.
BigT, don't get me wrong, I'm satisfied with my stack. At the same time, no need to over hype as results aren't anything out of the ordinary. Also, I agree with sentiments regarding the COAs.
Prld, I hesitate to recommend designers and ph's unless I've tried the specific batch myself. I understand Generic has a great rep but so do other companies that have VERY popular products that don't turn out to meet label claims.
Also, I like your sodium idea concerning phera. Correct me if I'm wrong... Doesn't sodium tend to accumulate on very superficial cells? Which then would hold water in these areas creating the "puffy" look. Any reason for this to occur in the chest area more than others? Hence the gyno paranoia?
Highlanda01602
Well-known member
Man, this thread has covered so many great discussions.
Definite sticky material!
Later on I'll add some more goods to the fray - currently using Dermacrine, and will follow it up with the Formestane/Activate(or another booster) combo.
Definite sticky material!
Later on I'll add some more goods to the fray - currently using Dermacrine, and will follow it up with the Formestane/Activate(or another booster) combo.
Ninjo
Well-known member
Okay, so I've decided to run Phera again in the new year for 4 weeks at 30mg/day. I'm also considering adding E-Form at 80mg/day (i.e. 4 squirts/day).
I've run Phera once before but not with Form; for those that have used it, what can I expect from adding the E-Form? Thanks.
I've run Phera once before but not with Form; for those that have used it, what can I expect from adding the E-Form? Thanks.
Dutchman
Active member
Even though I was/am a big SD fan having done over a half dozen cycles, I am now firmly in the Formastane camp. I continue/plan always, to use it for around 10 weeks 2 ED @ 6 squirts and then take a 2 week break. My New Year's treat, now that I am three months removed from a RC tear and can handle decent poundages again, is to start my third cycle again stacking pulsed Epi with my Form.
prld2gr8ns
Idiot Savant
Hey Dutch, have you ever considered using form with a low dosed pulse SD cycle? Something along the lines of 5-10mg 3Xweek SD, with form on consecutive days. To me it seems like it would give some great benefits and greatly reduce the sides of SD. Besides, with some of the results of Form/Epi, I thought this little idea sounded a little interesting.
opfor101
Banned
hmmm but then SD is VERY dry, according to what many people said. (and since its DHT based, its non aromatizable)
dunno whats the point of e-form during sd cycle.
especially on a pulse.
Ninjo
Well-known member
Wow, a half dozen cycles of SD!...I've had a couple of bottles in my freezer for over a year and haven't had the guts to use them due to all the gyno issues others have had.
Anyway, back on topic: is that 12 sprays per day of E-Form that you're using or 6? Sorry, I'm a little slow! Also, how are you going to dose Epi on your pulse?
prld2gr8ns
Idiot Savant
True, but then again similiar things are said about Epi, and the stacks seem to have worked out great. I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud.
Dutchman
Active member
prld2gr8ns
Funny you mention it, because I have toyed with that idea a lot. JIMHO, I have done enough SD that I need to use 40 mgs to get the effect I used to have with 20, then 30 etc. I also am used to doing longer cycles eg 6 weeks, so if I tried a SD/Form stack I would probably pulse it at 20 per while doing the Form daily. I would have no fear because I have had no problems with SD sides since I do a solid set of helpful supps during and in PCT.
opfor101
I mean no insult to you or your age but for me, as for all guys from around 40 onwards we all have prostate cancer to a lesser or greater extent. Nowadays we know that the problem here is not Test but Estrogen and no matter what I do I want my Form to keep my Estro in control. Its just nice that it seems to have so many positive results by inversly upping my Test and helping my libido. Again as I have explained before over the years, I believe that my age plays a role in the fact that I react so well to ANYTHING like SD, Epi and Form that ups or replaces my normal low test levels. Its just important that I take all reasonable precautions.
Ninjo
I would not fear SD, rather I would educate myself, take all necessary precautions and then go for it in a progressive fashion based upon my size and experience.
Sorry I was not clear, yes that is 12 sprays per day. I have not found any success putting it on my stomach so I use my chest, thighs and arms.
I love Epi. It is the best dang, mildest, greatest strength generating PH I have ever tried. I have pulsed it now up to 40 mgs @ 3X per wk and plan this time to run it longer than normal for 8 to 10 weeks at 40 and maybe even later on up it to 50 mgs. Of course I will also be using my Form. They make an extremely mild, prostate friendly, senior boosting stack. When I see all the other old farts around me here up NW of Orlando, I keep thinking that Form should be marketed to all of these guys with their droopy boobs, flabby whatevers and flagging/flagged libidos.
Funny you mention it, because I have toyed with that idea a lot. JIMHO, I have done enough SD that I need to use 40 mgs to get the effect I used to have with 20, then 30 etc. I also am used to doing longer cycles eg 6 weeks, so if I tried a SD/Form stack I would probably pulse it at 20 per while doing the Form daily. I would have no fear because I have had no problems with SD sides since I do a solid set of helpful supps during and in PCT.
opfor101
I mean no insult to you or your age but for me, as for all guys from around 40 onwards we all have prostate cancer to a lesser or greater extent. Nowadays we know that the problem here is not Test but Estrogen and no matter what I do I want my Form to keep my Estro in control. Its just nice that it seems to have so many positive results by inversly upping my Test and helping my libido. Again as I have explained before over the years, I believe that my age plays a role in the fact that I react so well to ANYTHING like SD, Epi and Form that ups or replaces my normal low test levels. Its just important that I take all reasonable precautions.
Ninjo
I would not fear SD, rather I would educate myself, take all necessary precautions and then go for it in a progressive fashion based upon my size and experience.
Sorry I was not clear, yes that is 12 sprays per day. I have not found any success putting it on my stomach so I use my chest, thighs and arms.
I love Epi. It is the best dang, mildest, greatest strength generating PH I have ever tried. I have pulsed it now up to 40 mgs @ 3X per wk and plan this time to run it longer than normal for 8 to 10 weeks at 40 and maybe even later on up it to 50 mgs. Of course I will also be using my Form. They make an extremely mild, prostate friendly, senior boosting stack. When I see all the other old farts around me here up NW of Orlando, I keep thinking that Form should be marketed to all of these guys with their droopy boobs, flabby whatevers and flagging/flagged libidos.
opfor101
Banned
opfor101
I mean no insult to you or your age but for me, as for all guys from around 40 onwards we all have prostate cancer to a lesser or greater extent. Nowadays we know that the problem here is not Test but Estrogen and no matter what I do I want my Form to keep my Estro in control. Its just nice that it seems to have so many positive results by inversly upping my Test and helping my libido. Again as I have explained before over the years, I believe that my age plays a role in the fact that I react so well to ANYTHING like SD, Epi and Form that ups or replaces my normal low test levels. Its just important that I take all reasonable precautions.
IM INSULTED :aargh::toofunny:
JK
well, the thing is, most people while on SD have low estro levels, some people even get joint/ligament pains.
(maybe because it suppresses your natty test and the only test you have is DHT based SD, which will not aromatize)
but then again, EVERYONE reacts differently when it comes to hormonal supps.
I mean no insult to you or your age but for me, as for all guys from around 40 onwards we all have prostate cancer to a lesser or greater extent. Nowadays we know that the problem here is not Test but Estrogen and no matter what I do I want my Form to keep my Estro in control. Its just nice that it seems to have so many positive results by inversly upping my Test and helping my libido. Again as I have explained before over the years, I believe that my age plays a role in the fact that I react so well to ANYTHING like SD, Epi and Form that ups or replaces my normal low test levels. Its just important that I take all reasonable precautions.
IM INSULTED :aargh::toofunny:
JK
well, the thing is, most people while on SD have low estro levels, some people even get joint/ligament pains.
(maybe because it suppresses your natty test and the only test you have is DHT based SD, which will not aromatize)
but then again, EVERYONE reacts differently when it comes to hormonal supps.
alainbballing
New member
Just got two bottles of E-form was planning on adding this to my superdrol cycle i have been planning for so long....lol...in january or febraury... need help figure out how to add it? I was planning on dosing the superdrol clone at 12mg first week and 24 for the remaining period....how does that sound with E-form at 4 squirts in the morning and 4 before bed?
opfor101
Banned
thats sounds pretty good, seeing that estro levels are i believe the highest in the morning.
dinoiii
Featured Author
Estrogen levels are ONLY important in this case when coming from aromatase conversion.
Estrogen levels WILL be highest when test levels are lowest (through gonadotropin compensation). In other words nighttime. This, however, is independent of aromatase conversion and through direct pathways.
Estrogen levels WILL be on the rise mid-morning to afternoon via aromatase - the time when something like an AI would have most benefit is either directly at this time or a small time before it dependent upon half-life and agent specificity.
Now - admittedly, I won't claim to have read the entire thread, BUT one thing that seems to have been ommitted throughout this thread is volume of distribution adjustments which is slightly disturbing. Everyone can NOT dose this product the same and expect excellent results. There is a miscalculation that I think begins with label suggestion.
In any event...as you were...
D_
opfor101
Banned
yep you pretty much summed it up.:cheers:
Highlanda01602
Well-known member
Just a heads up-
Dermacrine/Dermacrine Sustain comes with a spray and a pump... and they fit perfectly on the Penetrate bottles. Opening must be identical, and very convenient as they are better quality than the piece that comes with the bottle.
After inquiring, I found out from PP that the spray yields 0.2ml per go, and the pump yields 1.5ml. In other words the spray gives you around ~4mg Formestane/spray and the pump will give you ~30mg Formestane/pump. Havn't had a clogging issue once throughout my Dermacrine cycle, and their solution is much thicker than that of Penetrate.
Dermacrine/Dermacrine Sustain comes with a spray and a pump... and they fit perfectly on the Penetrate bottles. Opening must be identical, and very convenient as they are better quality than the piece that comes with the bottle.
After inquiring, I found out from PP that the spray yields 0.2ml per go, and the pump yields 1.5ml. In other words the spray gives you around ~4mg Formestane/spray and the pump will give you ~30mg Formestane/pump. Havn't had a clogging issue once throughout my Dermacrine cycle, and their solution is much thicker than that of Penetrate.
thebigt
Legend
dana, name me one supplement that is dosed the same for everyone. if there was one thing i would change on e-form label it would be to start at 3 sprays 2xday and go from there. almost every other supp is under dosed on label recommendation so a lot of people automatically start at higher doses.:cheers:
thebigt
Legend
its not the thickness, its the grittiness.:rofl:
dinoiii
Featured Author
There are points of diminishing return and some where study doses exhibit no greater results when dosing higher...NOT from the AI category and certainly NOT transdermal due to the essential lipophilic properties of many agents via this mode. Take things with saturation points - we can certainly begin at max dosing and remain steady...but well...there's where the problem begins.
But, sure many companies suggest it as a quoted "convenience" while in reality, it is a margin we are talking about.
Aside: There's seems to be a lot of making things transdermal these days that really shouldn't be transdermal - industry wonders never cease to amaze.
D_
thebigt
Legend
bandwagon supps, i think we will be seeing more and more td's in the near future. whats your take on adding resveratrol to e-form?:box:
Highlanda01602
Well-known member
Highlanda01602
Well-known member
I know you already know about Sustain, but just in case the others didn't...
New Sustain coming out - Sustain Alpha. No reviews on it yet of course, but looks so be solid.. NP should have it sometime soon into the new year. Never used resveratrol before, and Sustain Alpha definitly looks like the way to pop the cherry.. PP is quite the company!
thebigt
Legend
no knock on pp, but eric said sustain was too saturated to add anything to it. was thinking of ergopharms bulk resveratrol added to e-form. not sure but this might be one of the supp dinoii was addressing about not being suitable for td. waiting for his response.:cheers:
