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Good success with HRT

Diancecht

New member
Just finished 10 weeks of HRT with good results. I am using 180 mg of test cyp weekly with 0.5 anastrazole every other day. I will be starting a 10 day cycle of HCG in two weeks and I will see how that goes. (I am going to check test and estradiol levels at the end of that)

I am 52. My primary problem was that of fatigue that made it hard to work past Wednesday on a busy work week. Needless to say libido was pretty much nil. Physical training at most was 2x per week which was a struggle.

When my wife finally got fed up with hot flashes and went on HRT her libido began increasing. Viagra worked but I always got gastritis and a headache the next day. So I ran some extensive blood work.

My total T was below the 40th percentile with free T below the 25th. Estradiol was at the 90th percentile. Now Totat t is about 110th ( I going to cut the t to 160 mg for the next round). Estradiol is 25th percentile. The rest of the studies have been fine.

I have plenty of energy now and have been able to ramp back up my prior physical training scheule (weights 3 x per week and bjj 2-3 times per week. I know have the energy to look forward to going out on activities with my wife on the weekend and enjoy it.

So for now it seems to be very helpfull and I look forward to discussing HRT with you folks.
 
Diancecht said:
Just finished 10 weeks of HRT with good results. I am using 180 mg of test cyp weekly with 0.5 anastrazole every other day. I will be starting a 10 day cycle of HCG in two weeks and I will see how that goes. (I am going to check test and estradiol levels at the end of that)

I am 52. My primary problem was that of fatigue that made it hard to work past Wednesday on a busy work week. Needless to say libido was pretty much nil. Physical training at most was 2x per week which was a struggle.

When my wife finally got fed up with hot flashes and went on HRT her libido began increasing. Viagra worked but I always got gastritis and a headache the next day. So I ran some extensive blood work.

My total T was below the 40th percentile with free T below the 25th. Estradiol was at the 90th percentile. Now Totat t is about 110th ( I going to cut the t to 160 mg for the next round). Estradiol is 25th percentile. The rest of the studies have been fine.

I have plenty of energy now and have been able to ramp back up my prior physical training scheule (weights 3 x per week and bjj 2-3 times per week. I know have the energy to look forward to going out on activities with my wife on the weekend and enjoy it.

So for now it seems to be very helpfull and I look forward to discussing HRT with you folks.
Click to expand...

Congratulations on your success.
---------------
You approach and description looks different when compared to what I am doing.
My story is here:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html
We do not cycle, what we do is continous.
We work on absolute numbers, we do not use percentiles.

I would be inerested in more details of your approach.
 
I may change my program esp if I see significant drops in test or significantly increased estradiol after I do the HCG cycle. This is my first pass so to speak.

As a physician who is not an endocrinologist I at this point want to keep it simple. Percentages give me a better overall view IMO as lab testing has a lot of extrinisic and intrinsic variables. One of the key points we were taught is dont treat the lab or imaging study, focus on treating the patient. So I look at how I feel trying to be as objective as possible about it. I take all lab tests with a grain of salt. Looking at the first tests I think I may be a little high on test and will cut back and recheck.

I think HRT has some important values for our society. Its reminds me of where preventive services were in the early 80's. At that time it was controversial but if we apply reason, scientific rationales and a carefull approach it may become accepted also.
 
Diancecht said:
I may change my program esp if I see significant drops in test or significantly increased estradiol after I do the HCG cycle. This is my first pass so to speak.

As a physician who is not an endocrinologist I at this point want to keep it simple. Percentages give me a better overall view IMO as lab testing has a lot of extrinisic and intrinsic variables. One of the key points we were taught is dont treat the lab or imaging study, focus on treating the patient. So I look at how I feel trying to be as objective as possible about it. I take all lab tests with a grain of salt. Looking at the first tests I think I may be a little high on test and will cut back and recheck.

I think HRT has some important values for our society. Its reminds me of where preventive services were in the early 80's. At that time it was controversial but if we apply reason, scientific rationales and a carefull approach it may become accepted also.
Click to expand...

I hope that doing my blood test at the best laboratory I can find should give me an edge.
I go for Quest Diagnostics (in general) and more specifically for their Nichols Institute.
Many of my tests on my blood list are specified at such a way that they are specifically done at Nichols institute.

Oter tests I am sending to Genova Diagnostics.
I hope that they are of reasonable quality but for me important is that they provide "probable diagnosis" and give a list of supplements and their doses for corrective action.
See attachments, it shows details.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/77385-jansz-metabolic-analysis.html
=====================================================================
"As a physician who is not an endocrinologist "

That gives you an edge, open mind.

Endos have a poor track record on TRT/HRT matters.

When you have personal intrest in this subject you will be a quick learner.

Hope you will visit us more often,
and offer friendly suggestion when we struggle.
=======================================================================
HRT, TRT, preventive services, life extension.

Lets not limit actions to but few hormones.
Human body is more complicated.

So far I pulled up few sets of tests on my post #44
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html

please look it over, make a comments, add to it.
 
Thats quite an extensive lists of tests. Very comprehensive.

For me the first question is: What is the problem? Then do an extensive hx, physical is next, then the tests.

In my case fatigue was the big issue. Very tired by Wednesdays. I was needing almost a 3 day weekend to recover. Recovery periods after exercise were very long. Not to mention problems with libido and erectile function.

So differentials would include among others such possibilities as malignancy, anemia, thryroid disorders, autoimmune disorders, diabetes, depression, cardiac disorderss etc,etc.

So after reasonable elimination of those I looked at the hormone levels and did some reading. Next step was then to see if hormone replacement would help. So began a program and logged the results.

I watched and noted objective findings to see if any change occurred. Items such as sponateous awakening times, amt and quality of sleep, exercise recovery time, spontaneous morning erections and could see a very significant improvement. At this point a still unanswered question is the placebo effect. Obviously I cant do a double blind study on myself (besides a test on one person has very limited value on its own). However usually placebo effects often tend to dimninish over time as the persons enthusiasm for the treatment wanes.

As I begin the HCG cycle I frankly dont know what the effects will be. Since I will be off test for two weeks before the HCG is started I would expect the blood levels of test to drop significantly and perhaps to see a rise in estradiol. The question is will I notice anything and if so what will be the effects. I dont know what the HCG will do test levels. Will it rise and if so how much. The other question is will the estradiol eleveate like it was at the beginning. So I will watch and note the objective symptoms. I plan on doing a test and ;estradiol at the end of the HCG to see what it is but also may do a test just before the cycle to see its effects.

So in a way I am my own guinea pig. However the theory of HRT and made sense to me 8-10 years ago when I heard a very interesting paper on it at a medical conference. Are there risks. Of coure there are. Anything has a potential risk and benefity. There is even risk from nonaction. I believe the long term risk to be low and the potential advantages to be high. Time will tell if it was the right one.
 
Diancecht said:
Thats quite an extensive lists of tests. Very comprehensive.

For me the first question is: What is the problem? Then do an extensive hx, physical is next, then the tests.

In my case fatigue was the big issue. Very tired by Wednesdays. I was needing almost a 3 day weekend to recover. Recovery periods after exercise were very long. Not to mention problems with libido and erectile function.
So differentials would include among others such possibilities as malignancy, anemia, thryroid disorders, autoimmune disorders, diabetes, depression, cardiac disorderss etc,etc.
So after reasonable elimination of those I looked at the hormone levels and did some reading. Next step was then to see if hormone replacement would help. So began a program and logged the results.

I watched and noted objective findings to see if any change occurred. Items such as sponateous awakening times, amt and quality of sleep, exercise recovery time, spontaneous morning erections and could see a very significant improvement. At this point a still unanswered question is the placebo effect. Obviously I cant do a double blind study on myself (besides a test on one person has very limited value on its own). However usually placebo effects often tend to dimninish over time as the persons enthusiasm for the treatment wanes.

As I begin the HCG cycle I frankly dont know what the effects will be. Since I will be off test for two weeks before the HCG is started I would expect the blood levels of test to drop significantly and perhaps to see a rise in estradiol. The question is will I notice anything and if so what will be the effects. I dont know what the HCG will do test levels. Will it rise and if so how much. The other question is will the estradiol eleveate like it was at the beginning. So I will watch and note the objective symptoms. I plan on doing a test and ;estradiol at the end of the HCG to see what it is but also may do a test just before the cycle to see its effects.

So in a way I am my own guinea pig. However the theory of HRT and made sense to me 8-10 years ago when I heard a very interesting paper on it at a medical conference. Are there risks. Of coure there are. Anything has a potential risk and benefity. There is even risk from nonaction. I believe the long term risk to be low and the potential advantages to be high. Time will tell if it was the right one.
Click to expand...

Post your pre-supplementation
TotalTestosterone
FSH, LH,

post lattest

prolactin
SHBG
FreeT3
FreeT4
cortisol
DHEA

If you do not have them, it will be less pain if you do complete blood test as I posted on my post #44
every last number and letter counts so rather that trying to squeze that list into pe-designed forms, print it out on your office stationary, sign it and go to nearest Quest lab, do not draw blood in your office, (chain of quality points).

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13.html
---------------------------------------------------------------
You may want to consider complete list at Genova Diagnostics.
You need account with them first.
Invalid Link Removed

then get the whole thing
================================================== ======
Invalid Link Removed
The ONE - Optimal Nutrition Evaluation - consists of:
Metabolic Analysis
Amino Acid Analysis
Oxidative Stress Analysis

Essential & Metabolic fatty acid Analysis,
EstroEssence
Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis (CDSA 2.0)
Comprehensive Detoxification Profile.
Hair Elemental Analysis

================================================== ======
 
fyi.. I'd expect that you will see a good crash.

Your T will be diminished because you stopped supplementation. If the HCG allows you to produce endogenous T (assuming you are secondary, not primary), it will do so with some lead time.

For the two weeks you stopped T + the lead time you will have very little T. It may not be a very fun time.

I think it's interesting you're trying this. It advances our knowledge. It seems there is still debate on the merits of T, HCG, Arimidex - when/if to use, etc.

On the other hand, there is an interesting sticky at the top of the forum by Dr. John Crisler who is no longer a regular here. He has been treating many people and found that T+HCG at the same time is frequently an effective therapy.

Good luck!
Mark
 
MarkLA said:
fyi.. I'd expect that you will see a good crash.

Your T will be diminished because you stopped supplementation. If the HCG allows you to produce endogenous T (assuming you are secondary, not primary), it will do so with some lead time.

For the two weeks you stopped T + the lead time you will have very little T. It may not be a very fun time.

I think it's interesting you're trying this. It advances our knowledge. It seems there is still debate on the merits of T, HCG, Arimidex - when/if to use, etc.

On the other hand, there is an interesting sticky at the top of the forum by Dr. John Crisler who is no longer a regular here. He has been treating many people and found that T+HCG at the same time is frequently an effective therapy.

Good luck!
Mark
Click to expand...

Sticky: A4M White Paper on HRT
Headdoc 06-24-2007 09:26 AM
by Dr. John

-----------------------------------
Try to find out who is this legendary Dr John.

When I clock on his name I come up empty.

All the rest is gone too, I think.
 
JanSz said:
Sticky: A4M White Paper on HRT
Headdoc 06-24-2007 09:26 AM
by Dr. John

-----------------------------------
Try to find out who is this legendary Dr John.

When I clock on his name I come up empty.

All the rest is gone too, I think.
Click to expand...

Wow, I did not notice. The "TRT A Recipe for Success" and the other Dr. John items are now gone. As is Dr. Johns profile. A Google search for this topic does turn up many results for that phrase. I would suggest to the original poster to look there.

I hate to see (presumably) politics limit the information available to those who would benefit from it.

Mark
 
MarkLA said:
Wow, I did not notice. The "TRT A Recipe for Success" and the other Dr. John items are now gone. As is Dr. Johns profile. A Google search for this topic does turn up many results for that phrase. I would suggest to the original poster to look there.

I hate to see (presumably) politics limit the information available to those who would benefit from it.

Mark
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, this was by his request as we do not want to remove any information that could be helpful. He told us to remove all his posts so we did. It is unfortunate.

Dr. John is no longer here but this does not change our view at his achievements and value. We wish him luck in any and all future endeavors.
 
Bobo said:
Unfortunately, this was by his request as we do not want to remove any information that could be helpful. He told us to remove all his posts so we did. It is unfortunate.

Dr. John is no longer here but this does not change our view at his achievements and value. We wish him luck in any and all future endeavors.
Click to expand...

Thank you.

Mystery solved.
 
Bobo said:
Unfortunately, this was by his request as we do not want to remove any information that could be helpful. He told us to remove all his posts so we did. It is unfortunate.

Dr. John is no longer here but this does not change our view at his achievements and value. We wish him luck in any and all future endeavors.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clearing that up.
 
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