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Fat guys and Roids

SilkPhantom

SilkPhantom

New member
Hey guys,

The question i'm about to pose is purely academic so no flaming necessary as i would never advise this to anyone myself.

I've been wondering about this for a long time. What would happen if you took someone who was overweight like 23-25% bf, was not a regular weight-lifter, and had them do a cycle of of something like equipoise for 16 weeks or so while working out and dieting? What would the effect be on the bodies tissues, specifically the excess fat? Would the extra weight cause a significantly higher incidence in aromatization vs someone who was trim?

How would the steroid affect that person? Would they make more progress over a 16 week period with the aid of AAS than if they did diet and exercise alone?

The question really is whether anabolic steroids can help someone who is overweight but still athletic and active to more quickly attain their goals and recomp the body? Obviously the ideal should be that they get their weight in check first then get their lifting and nutrition habits in place before using but this is purely academic.
 
fat guys on roids look exactly like....fat guys on roids. there are a few at my gym..they somehow think their strong as hell cuz they bench 300 and weigh a lil more...but for your question anabolics do help a good amount and allow people to shed fat while making muscle catabolism non-existent...it also depends on the type of anabolic used, a substance like deca wouldnt be very apropriate because of the water and weight gain but a little test prop with an aromatase inhibitor should allow a "fat" person to recomp easier with a sound diet and cardio program of course...but still they are better off losing most of the weight naturally especially if they are at 25 % bf
 
You need to get your diet and training down before touching anything.. SERIOUSLY.

Also, the more fat you have, the more aromatase you will have... AKA.. your testosterone will turn into estrogen at an alarming rate. Letrozole or Arimidex HAVE to be run if you do use testosterone.

Have you had bloodwork? This is very important, esp if you wana use any drugs to help lose weight. You may even have an underlying issue, such as hypothyroidism. (Most doctors misdiagnose this, and don't even know the new accepted endo range!!)

HGH may be worth looking into. I know that fat tissue can create igf-1 when HGH rises.. Might help.
 
just reminded me how my "bodyfat" scales say i have 34.5% BF, yet I can see my abs and can bearly pinch an ounce....

At 206LBS I think i may need to take my scales back.....

Also apparently, I am always dehydrated at 30% water hydration.... hehe

To answer your question I would think a higher androgenic compound mixed with a thermal fat burner would be a nice mix to reduce some fat, but in reality cutting/dieting prior to any cycle at that % Bf is definately recommended.
 
i agree... they would definitely help in the sense of avoiding a catabolic state, but at that bf , catabolism is the least of the worries
 
Maybe its just me, but it looks like most powerlifters are in that sort of bodyfat range? and they juice...
 
I think the bodyfat level isn't very relevant to what value steroids would have, given an individual eating maintenance + x calories. Basically the 200lb person with 25% bodyfat has 150lbs of LBM. taking a mild something that will help them gain 6lbs over a 4 week period will raise their overall fat burning weight, and if calories are close enough to maintenance that scale weight stays the same, that person will end the 4 weeks at 22% bf. if they lost 6lbs of fat thru primarily dieting, their % would not be much better, but their overall base metabolic rate would be slower, making it harder to loose more in the future.
 
well you need to ask yourself the question.....are you a body builder,or a power lifter??............I am a body builder and dont try to max out every workout....i use moderate weights high reps.....If your goal is to powerlift then all the extra fat might help?..........personally who cares HOW strong you are unless your getting paid to lift huge weight....it's just bad for your body and joints!!........to build muscle you need to reach failure!! on every set...!! drop sets are also a great thing.

~whatever
 
MentalTwitch said:
Caloric intake is ridiculous?
Also, put em on Clen or something...haha
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:goodpost: .....dammit son,your getting rather wise hangin around this board!!:clap2: ...nice!
 
TripDog said:
drop sets are also a great thing.
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I swear by drop sets. I'll do an entire workout that way. People look at me like I'm Richard Simmons when I'm repping out 30lb dumbells for chest, but then when I sit up and my chest is sticking out 3.5 inches its a whole new game.
 
Dr Packenwood said:
I swear by drop sets. I'll do an entire workout that way. People look at me like I'm Richard Simmons when I'm repping out 30lb dumbells for chest, but then when I sit up and my chest is sticking out 3.5 inches its a whole new game.
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Yeah I love drop sets, supersets, tri sets, man thats the only way to train.
 
there is actually a new M&M article that addresses this somewhat. It gets pretty technical with terms and mechanisms of action.

basically states that there is evidence that test and possibly other androgens are lipolytic and anti-adipogenic.

Invalid Link Removed
 
haha this thread took on a funny new path i didn't expect.

The point i was trying to drive at has somewhat been lost here save a few comments. The question is do steroids help you lose body fat percentage and recomp faster than a traditional diet and workout program.

My theory is that given the added incentive to workout hard while juicing, the fat person would be able to go longer and harder in the gym in both cardio and resistance training, assume you could find the right substace to minimize pumps, and because his body is in an anti-catabolic state, the weight he is losing from dieting would not be muscle and therefore his efforts over the course of the steroid cycle would give better results (muscle retention/increase + weight loss) than if he simply dieted and excersized alone....

any validity to this theory?
 
SilkPhantom said:
haha this thread took on a funny new path i didn't expect.

The point i was trying to drive at has somewhat been lost here save a few comments. The question is do steroids help you lose body fat percentage and recomp faster than a traditional diet and workout program.

My theory is that given the added incentive to workout hard while juicing, the fat person would be able to go longer and harder in the gym in both cardio and resistance training, assume you could find the right substace to minimize pumps, and because his body is in an anti-catabolic state, the weight he is losing from dieting would not be muscle and therefore his efforts over the course of the steroid cycle would give better results (muscle retention/increase + weight loss) than if he simply dieted and excersized alone....

any validity to this theory?
Click to expand...


Some....i mean depending on the BF percentage the average overweight person would be at more rish of High BP or Cholestrol problems prior and during a cycle.....

As for the benefits, I would think that there are far better ways to reduce BF than while juicing. Sure and androgenic compound would give them the edge, but at that BF percentage eating low cabs and high protein (dieting) will still yeild great muscle gains.

If anything, the added muscle under the fat would make them appear to be getting "fatter" rather than thinner, and they would more than likely loose all of the muscle gains trying to cut away all that fat after the cycle....

wow....all that at 3.30 am..
 
SilkPhantom said:
haha this thread took on a funny new path i didn't expect.

The point i was trying to drive at has somewhat been lost here save a few comments. The question is do steroids help you lose body fat percentage and recomp faster than a traditional diet and workout program.

My theory is that given the added incentive to workout hard while juicing, the fat person would be able to go longer and harder in the gym in both cardio and resistance training, assume you could find the right substace to minimize pumps, and because his body is in an anti-catabolic state, the weight he is losing from dieting would not be muscle and therefore his efforts over the course of the steroid cycle would give better results (muscle retention/increase + weight loss) than if he simply dieted and excersized alone....

any validity to this theory?
Click to expand...

I believe that it would not neccessarily work because of the need of receptor sites as per anabolics manual:

Invalid Link Removed

but the longer on the more receptor sites = greater uptake = better response. So with a longer time on better results would be acheived..ahm thinking.

I'm guessing this is why you should really max out your potential first before getting into any of that stuff.
 
neoborn said:
I believe that it would not neccessarily work because of the need of receptor sites as per anabolics manual:

Invalid Link Removed

but the longer on the more receptor sites = greater uptake = better response. So with a longer time on better results would be acheived..ahm thinking.

I'm guessing this is why you should really max out your potential first before getting into any of that stuff.
Click to expand...


I think actually the point of his question was whether it would aid in fat loss, and to some degree 1-test or something highly androgenic would. Im not sure the exact science behind it so im not going to give out false advise, but i belive it has something to do with the way the body uses its calories.

Bah! im too sleep for this.If someone could explain why or why this wouldnt work i.e the science behind it that would be great.
 
MashedPotato said:
I think actually the point of his question was whether it would aid in fat loss, and to some degree 1-test or something highly androgenic would. Im not sure the exact science behind it so im not going to give out false advise, but i belive it has something to do with the way the body uses its calories.

Bah! im too sleep for this.If someone could explain why or why this wouldnt work i.e the science behind it that would be great.
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:stick:

guys, check out the article I posted above. It says YES, there is evidence that the juice will help you burn off fat, as it has both llipolytic and anti-adipogenic mechanisms. It goes through all the science.

Now, whether it is the right way to go about it, its a whole nother debate.
 
TripDog said:
well you need to ask yourself the question.....are you a body builder,or a power lifter??............I am a body builder and dont try to max out every workout....i use moderate weights high reps.....If your goal is to powerlift then all the extra fat might help?..........personally who cares HOW strong you are unless your getting paid to lift huge weight....it's just bad for your body and joints!!........to build muscle you need to reach failure!! on every set...!! drop sets are also a great thing.

~whatever
Click to expand...

TRIP YOU GOTS TA BE CAREFULL WITH ALL THEM DOTS(...) PEOPLE STARTED TRIPPING AND EMAILING DEATH THREATS(NEO:stick:) NOT TO NAME DROP OR ANYTHING... :icon_lol: BE CAREFUL WOULDNT WANT THOSE GUYS TO COME AFTER YOU TOO...THEY DONT LIKE CAPITALS EITHER...I THINK IT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH THERE CHILD HOOD...SAD STUFF...HAHA
 
i agree that there are very few that will actually reduce bf themselves.. cutting with steroids for the most part is done to maintain the lean muscle mass that you already have, not aid in bf reduction. i dont agree with an obese person using steroids to trim bodyfat and not changing any other factors... the benefits of them alone would not be worth it in my opinion
 
BIGG DOGG said:
TRIP YOU GOTS TA BE CAREFULL WITH ALL THEM DOTS(...) PEOPLE STARTED TRIPPING AND EMAILING DEATH THREATS(NEO:stick:) NOT TO NAME DROP OR ANYTHING... :icon_lol: BE CAREFUL WOULDNT WANT THOSE GUYS TO COME AFTER YOU TOO...THEY DONT LIKE CAPITALS EITHER...I THINK IT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH THERE CHILD HOOD...SAD STUFF...HAHA
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Arghhh.....ALL CAPS .... my eyes...my eyes (makes sound of falling down a well). :rant:

hehe

billm311, reps man. To be honest i actually didnt bother to click the link, it was "too much effort" at 4am.

I mean IT WAS TOO.....MUCH.....EFFORT......At 2 In The Morning As I Was Tired

:lol:
 
BIGG DOGG said:
TRIP YOU GOTS TA BE CAREFULL WITH ALL THEM DOTS(...) PEOPLE STARTED TRIPPING AND EMAILING DEATH THREATS(NEO:stick:) NOT TO NAME DROP OR ANYTHING... :icon_lol: BE CAREFUL WOULDNT WANT THOSE GUYS TO COME AFTER YOU TOO...THEY DONT LIKE CAPITALS EITHER...I THINK IT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH THERE CHILD HOOD...SAD STUFF...HAHA
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DAM.......... I WOULD HAVE PUT IT IN ALL CAPS IF I KNEW.........I CARE VERY LITTLE WHO DOESNT LIKE MY TRADEMARK DOTS............. ..................,.........!!!

MUCH BANANANESS,
~TRIP.................
 
TripDog said:
DAM.......... I WOULD HAVE PUT IT IN ALL CAPS IF I KNEW.........I CARE VERY LITTLE WHO DOESNT LIKE MY TRADEMARK DOTS............. ..................,.........!!!

MUCH BANANANESS,
~TRIP.................
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dude, not enough dots, please edit as its against board rules

Rule no 11.20.A Ch42 P 1

i) Dots must be plentiful in nature. Minimum 34 dots between words. Dots must be used alongside Capital letters. Under no Circumstances must a Dot appear with a comma.


Im afraid I may have to issue you a fine as there is indeed a comma in your last paraghraph of dots. :blink:
 
BIGG DOGG said:
TRIP YOU GOTS TA BE CAREFULL WITH ALL THEM DOTS(...) PEOPLE STARTED TRIPPING AND EMAILING DEATH THREATS(NEO:stick:) NOT TO NAME DROP OR ANYTHING... :icon_lol: BE CAREFUL WOULDNT WANT THOSE GUYS TO COME AFTER YOU TOO...THEY DONT LIKE CAPITALS EITHER...I THINK IT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH THERE CHILD HOOD...SAD STUFF...HAHA
Click to expand...

I would definitely say there are 'some' exceptions to the rule. Trip D to the O to the G is definitely in that group as he is beyond being shown the way of correct grammerer etc

He is too hip and bananarishizzle to be shown the elite way of the "Correct english and grammar" school of thought!

:run:

"Those who can, do; those who can't, teach." Trip teaches us about heavy hardcore experiments he's running on his rats so he's all good ;)

Much Love,

Neoborn
 
neoborn said:
I would definitely say there are 'some' exceptions to the rule. Trip D to the O to the G is definitely in that group as he is beyond being shown the way of correct grammerer etc

He is too hip and bananarishizzle to be shown the elite way of the "Correct english and grammar" school of thought!

:run:

"Those who can, do; those who can't, teach." Trip teaches us about heavy hardcore experiments he's running on his rats so he's all good ;)

Much Love,

Neoborn
Click to expand...

dude i do weird things to rats too...wanna hear about it?.hahaha
 
SilkPhantom said:
haha this thread took on a funny new path i didn't expect.

The point i was trying to drive at has somewhat been lost here save a few comments. The question is do steroids help you lose body fat percentage and recomp faster than a traditional diet and workout program.

My theory is that given the added incentive to workout hard while juicing, the fat person would be able to go longer and harder in the gym in both cardio and resistance training, assume you could find the right substace to minimize pumps, and because his body is in an anti-catabolic state, the weight he is losing from dieting would not be muscle and therefore his efforts over the course of the steroid cycle would give better results (muscle retention/increase + weight loss) than if he simply dieted and excersized alone....

any validity to this theory?
Click to expand...

Steroids will absolutely make it easier to lose body fat and recomp faster. However, you don't accidentally get fat. There is a serious of events that lead to obesity/overweight. It's not too hard to drop from 25-30% down to 15% w/out much catabolism if any. I personally wouldn't recommend steroids to someone who has this situation because it's not solving the root of the problem. Just my 2CC :)
 
neoborn said:
I would definitely say there are 'some' exceptions to the rule. Trip D to the O to the G is definitely in that group as he is beyond being shown the way of correct grammerer etc

He is too hip and bananarishizzle to be shown the elite way of the "Correct english and grammar" school of thought!


Much Love,

Neoborn
Click to expand...

bro......honestly i just feel sorry for you. After seeing picturs of what you actually look like,at the end of the day you need to start applying whatever you say into your own actual workouts..........

much reality,

~trip
 
Iron Warrior said:
Steroids will absolutely make it easier to lose body fat and recomp faster. However, you don't accidentally get fat. There is a serious of events that lead to obesity/overweight. It's not too hard to drop from 25-30% down to 15% w/out much catabolism if any. I personally wouldn't recommend steroids to someone who has this situation because it's not solving the root of the problem. Just my 2CC :)
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hey hey hey...lets not get to serrious around here. dont you see this thread is competly off topic? lets keep it that way.
 
This thread makes me laugh...thankx for all the input guys :cheers:

So now that we have established, at least somewhat, that test can be helpful in aiding fat guys to lose weight, what kind of cycle are talking about here? I would imagine it would look different from the standard cutting and bulking cycles. Can we talk about which compounds and in what dosages/duration would best serve this purpose?

I wonder if cycles of steroids for fat-loss would be built around substances like EQ and Winny as opposed to test, and run at longer durations like 16-20 weeks so that the body can undergo tissue transformation?
 
TripDog said:
bro......honestly i just feel sorry for you. After seeing picturs of what you actually look like,at the end of the day you need to start applying whatever you say into your own actual workouts..........

much reality,

~trip
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1. Bigg points out your style of writing

2. You say "f'them, whom don't like my dots"

3. I reply to big saying you are one of a kind on the boards, not a dig but also having a laugh with you in the post

4. You go and get all estrogenic on me, come back and say "you're a weak and fat man"???

Seriously? I was actually joking around and having a laugh. Do you need to PM me, as it's usually the best way to say something, if you have something to say, right?

Much Love,

Neoborn
 
neoborn said:
he is beyond being shown the way of correct grammerer etc

He is too hip and bananarishizzle to be shown the elite way of the "Correct english and grammar" school of thought!


Much Love,

Neoborn
Click to expand...

bro get off your high horse.......bust my grammar,and the way i dictate myself,then eat me. Stop your whining....
 
neoborn said:
4. You go and get all estrogenic on me, come back and say "you're a weak and fat man"???
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reality...you just insulted me......then made up words i never said.

:clap2: good job making yourself look even less reputable.......................................
 
Sigh, ok Trip. Good one. Not sure why you're going off on this as we have communicated fine up until now, but feel free to PM.

I'm definitely not on any 'high horse' as you say, sorry you took it that way and I apologize if I insulted you.

I must have misread what you wrote here:
TripDog said:
bro......honestly i just feel sorry for you. After seeing picturs of what you actually look like,at the end of the day you need to start applying whatever you say into your own actual workouts..........

much reality,

~trip
Click to expand...

What did you mean?
 
SilkPhantom said:
This thread makes me laugh...thankx for all the input guys :cheers:

So now that we have established, at least somewhat, that test can be helpful in aiding fat guys to lose weight, what kind of cycle are talking about here? I would imagine it would look different from the standard cutting and bulking cycles. Can we talk about which compounds and in what dosages/duration would best serve this purpose?

I wonder if cycles of steroids for fat-loss would be built around substances like EQ and Winny as opposed to test, and run at longer durations like 16-20 weeks so that the body can undergo tissue transformation?
Click to expand...

You can cut with Test just as long as you don't fret over the water retention. You can also use an AI such as Exemastene to counter act the water retention ;)

I would use Test in every cycle. A good cutter would be Test with Tren and Anavar. Just be careful with the Tren since some don't react well to it. Go with Tren Ace the first time because if you hate it than you'll only deal with the sides for a short while as opposed to Tren Enanthate.

You can also throw T3 in there with Test and Var, or Test-Tren-Var. There are many combos you can play with. I also prefer long cycles so 16-20 weeks is a good idea IMO. Just be careful with stacking Winny & Tren if you're trying to hold on to your hair :)
 
Guys guys guys, where's the love.

I mean even neo stopped signing his posts with "much love"..... That's how crazy its all getting...

:LOL:
 
Have i lost control of this thread? Yes

Do I care? Eh....

Does anyone wanna talk about the topic i posted, or should i strap on a bikini and join the pillow fight you girls are having...
 
TripDog said:
bro......honestly i just feel sorry for you. After seeing picturs of what you actually look like,at the end of the day you need to start applying whatever you say into your own actual workouts..........

much reality,

~trip
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Lol :toofunny: Seriously though, Neo your subtle arrogance in many of your posts is quite annoying at times.......
 
I think we pretty well answered it tho, the roids will give faster results than diet alone, and allow for maintaining more size which in the end means a higher caloric use per day.
 
SilkPhantom said:
Have i lost control of this thread? Yes

Do I care? Eh....

Does anyone wanna talk about the topic i posted, or should i strap on a bikini and join the pillow fight you girls are having...
Click to expand...

Step carefully. Tempers are flaring and easily could shift to you...:run:
 
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