Guest viewing limit reached
  • You have reached the maximum number of guest views allowed
  • Please register below to remove this limitation

Controversy

pudzian2

Banned
I'm not sure if another thread has addressed this but its so discouraging. If you haven't given this article a read through it would be worth it for a piece of mind. I just cant believe that this sport has evolved to get SOOO much negative attention. Look at the top guys now, a lot of them attest to using MUCH less drugs than they are accused of. Yes, some have advantageous genetics and drugs are a huge part of pro bodybuilding but I have a hard time being so discouraged (probably becuase I'm so sucked into the bodybuilding passion).

e.g: I read Jay Cutler's book, he openly admits to using drugs (no brainer) but says that its not the core of his success and he doesn't use nearly as much as suspected. I THEN met Jay cutler at one of his smaller signings, in fact Since i was working for GNC part time and he was at a GNC I got to sit with him the whole time and chat it up a bit. He comes off as rather tired and run down most of the time, slightly passive and blah. (hmmm insulin?).

I'm not arguing against the fact that pros are using drugs, but to the extent that they are accused of seems a little ridiculous. Not to mention all the other accusations of Gay prostitution and crack addictions (yea sure in some cases but not everyone).

Just look at guys like Dorian Yates, and Levrone....(and older guys like Schwarzenegger). Levrone and yates have lost alot of their size which was no doubt from the huge caloric intake and drug use but they dont look like they are in a hospital bed.

Dexter Jackson has kids and so does Quincy Taylor. There are\were some older guys 40+ on the Olympia stage who didnt look so unhealthy either....


I just have a hard time being so discouraged (moreso frustrated) becuase I have dreams to one day be on that stage myself, and I will be very serious about trying.

Invalid Link Removed
 
i came across this article a little while back. it certainly is discouraging to anyone who wants to step on stage one day, knowing what you will have to go through to get on their level. My research was so concentrated on steroids that i forgot about all the other types of drugs used by pros.
You could always compete on a lower level though, where competitors are less juiced up. As long as you are pushing hard, its respectable, and the hard work can all pay off even without a trophy.
 
I hope this thread gets alot of attention. Id like to hear some more thoughts. For now Im going to go to the gym, feel pumped, LOVE IT, aspire to my dreams for an hour or so while thinking about GETTING BJ's and not giving them haha..later
 
The bodybuilders of today do use tons of steroids. Look at the for phucks sake!. They don't even look human anymore. More like cartoon characters. They are far from healthy, and that is an understatement!.
 
it just seems to me like whoever this is, is a negative person. obviously to be a pro extreme amounts of gear need to be used, but this guy just seems to be complaining too much as if he did not know any of that stuff going into the situation. bro u can still compete using safe amounts of gear, but if u want to go national/pro you have to be willing to use as much or more than the guy next to you.
 
mfbb said:
it just seems to me like whoever this is, is a negative person. obviously to be a pro extreme amounts of gear need to be used, but this guy just seems to be complaining too much as if he did not know any of that stuff going into the situation. bro u can still compete using safe amounts of gear, but if u want to go national/pro you have to be willing to use as much or more than the guy next to you.
Click to expand...

I know. Its just hard to read something like that. I love everything about bodybuilding and I view it as a very positive thing. I believe in trying and seeing where one's genetics will take them without sacrificing long term health. after that its a personal decision to take it further.

The author of that article just seems like a helpless pessimistic addict
 
Great post! I was just thinking about this very same subject today as I looked through a tribute page to Ronnie Coleman. If you look back over his progression as #1 he didnt start out as a freak. It takes some time and ALOT of work to get that big. I know gear is behind the massive muscle growth but its not like they can just pin themselves and sit back and watch there quads grow.
I would think taking in that much food every day would be extremely taxing in itself. I have been bulking for 2 months now and I am getting irritated at eating 3300 cals, let alone 7000 or more. Also everything else that goes along with being that huge has to be very hard on your mind.
I guess my point being is that just because they use gear to get huge, its not overnight and they have to work really hard, and eat huge to be huge. I bet some of those guys crap 5 to 10 times a day! Dont let it get you down.
 
also there have to be a few pro's that aren't using insane gear and placing decent. i would think guys like dexter jackson, dave henry, darrem charles, and mark dugdale don't nearly use as much as guys like ruhl, victor, jay, and ronnie and while they (aside from dexter) aren't top 5 ib the world they have great pysiques and can def win some pro shows.
 
Lander said:
Great post! I was just thinking about this very same subject today as I looked through a tribute page to Ronnie Coleman. If you look back over his progression as #1 he didnt start out as a freak. It takes some time and ALOT of work to get that big. I know gear is behind the massive muscle growth but its not like they can just pin themselves and sit back and watch there quads grow.
I would think taking in that much food every day would be extremely taxing in itself. I have been bulking for 2 months now and I am getting irritated at eating 3300 cals, let alone 7000 or more. Also everything else that goes along with being that huge has to be very hard on your mind.
I guess my point being is that just because they use gear to get huge, its not overnight and they have to work really hard, and eat huge to be huge. I bet some of those guys crap 5 to 10 times a day! Dont let it get you down.
Click to expand...

Thanks man. Yea I mean I personally believe in hard work, personal dedication, learning your body and by doing so, over a long period of time you can build yourself up to that level (or to your genetic max --even with gear) Looking at Coleman in High School vs him in his early 20's there is a big difference. Same for Jay. In fact, at 22 years old Jay looked like he had about 75% or arguably more of his size (as did the others). Makes ya think....do they just go all out during these young years where their bodies are primed for growth anyway? Arnold fits in the same category and so does Branch Warren etc etc....

As you may have seen from my other threads I am a big time Jay fan. But I also like the other guys like Dexter and Victor and some of the less bulky and more shapely physiques. THese guys arent nearly as heavy for being around the same height. they hold 20-50lbs less mass and IMO look better-thats what bodybuilding is about anyway right? They look healthier, and more attainable (no doubt they still use drugs, but considering some of these guys are family men, and have careers outside bodybuilding, they do come off as quite healthy. its the other guys like Ruhl etc(I like him, but not his physique). that pressure the other competitors to get bigger becuase the judges see a monster and the crowds love to see how far we can push it.

Its sad really..as the current generation of top pro's start to retire, and the newer generations take over, I hope\think we will see some smaller but more conditioned, balanced, symmetrical and healthier physiques...


With respect to your comment on them having to work really hard to get and stay huge...Cutler mentioned that he cant even afford to sleep on normal intervals now, he eats every hour and a half even through the night while napping in between. (just so he can get enough calories.) He also said that he looses up to ten lbs every weekend when he travels becuase of the lack of calories....I can imagine it must get tiring.....but all these aspects are things that become worth it. Its dedication and will power to maintain and push like this...pessimists that attribute every single improvement or attribute of a pro physique on different chemicals are obviously just not made out to be a bodybuilder (genetically and mentally) as many others will too realize along the path of amateur competition anyway that they may not have what it takes either. To blame drug abuse and health problems on the sport is stupid, its the BBer's fault for pushing himself too far. When\if he is faced with death, no one made him do it but him. There is apparently a fine line between relentless competitiveness and careless stupidity
 
I have no respect for the Body Builder of today's society... It's sad that "health" is no longer strived for - just abnormal muscles.
 
matthew76 said:
I have no respect for the Body Builder of today's society... It's sad that "health" is no longer strived for - just abnormal muscles.
Click to expand...

today's bobybuilder? im sorry but it been the case since back when Arnie was strutting his stuff on stage. And who says today's pro's are in worse shape on the inside compared to the guys of the past. crap call.
 
Crap call? You must be blind dude - or just in denial. That was my opinion - but I'll make sure to tag your next opinion (if you can formulate one) crap.

It's no secret that todays Body Builder (Pro) takes 3x the amount of "juice" than their counter-parts 20 years ago. Do some research and stop being so quick to call someone's opinion crap because you failed to express yours in a mature manner, mate.



Australian made said:
today's bobybuilder? im sorry but it been the case since back when Arnie was strutting his stuff on stage. And who says today's pro's are in worse shape on the inside compared to the guys of the past. crap call.
Click to expand...
 
I see it in two ways: first, I believe what i read, I believe what I know to be true, which is the insane amounts of drugs (gear and others) used by pros to achieve their builds. Secondly I believe what SOME of the pro's say. Some of them swear that they are healthy, appear rather healthy (yes taxed from the lifestyle of a bodybuilder-some drugs included) but I don't feel that everyone is borderline dead from this sport, nor are all of them going to be so unhealthy that they don't live lives after their bodybuilding career. LOOK AT: Levrone, Yates, Arnie, The various pro's with family's etc
 
matthew76 said:
Crap call? You must be blind dude - or just in denial. That was my opinion - but I'll make sure to tag your next opinion (if you can formulate one) crap.

It's no secret that todays Body Builder (Pro) takes 3x the amount of "juice" than their counter-parts 20 years ago. Do some research and stop being so quick to call someone's opinion crap because you failed to express yours in a mature manner, mate.
Click to expand...

and you knows what IFBB pros have in their cycles do you?? no doubt they take more juice but they also take a lot more precaution (in regards to PCT, support supps) then the older pros did dont you think mate errrr homie?
 
As far as the size of today's bodybuilders, it's just like everything else in life. Always trying to one-up the previous generation.
 
Oh, well since they take more "precaution" it's all good... whatever.

Do I know any IFBB Pros..? Yes. I train 1 in MMA in the off season, and have a few friends in the business. Do I agree with all the gear they use? NO.


Australian made said:
and you knows what IFBB pros have in their cycles do you?? no doubt they take more juice but they also take a lot more precaution (in regards to post cycle therapy, support supps) then the older pros did dont you think mate errrr homie?
Click to expand...
 
matthew76 said:
Oh, well since they take more "precaution" it's all good... whatever.

Do I know any IFBB Pros..? Yes. I train 1 in MMA in the off season, and have a few friends in the business. Do I agree with all the gear they use? NO.
Click to expand...

Not trying to single out your trainee, but what does "a typical" Pro these days use in terms of drugs (we all are familiar with the compounds available) but since you mention having first hand experience with one of today's Professionals, can you give an "example" year or season of drug regime?
 
W/O giving his name - yes. The compounds that are readily available to him are {anything related to hormones - TEST, HGH, ect} He is on cycle for a total of 9 out of 12 months on some form of TEST and year round on HGH. (IGF-1 and something else I think)

But the alarming thing is that he and a few others I know go through 120-150 7.5mg Vicoprofen a month. He curently started taking Celebrex for all his joint discomfort. I am talking to him about the possibilities of a stroke or heart-attack rates with Celebrex and the high doses of "juice" that he takes.

He's a really great guy and actually has a Masters - so he's not some ignorant "muscle-head" that the sport has a tendency to have a stigma for.

When he first started out in BB he was only 19 - he's 33 now. He claims each year will be his last, but I've been hearing that for 5 years now.



pudzian2 said:
Not trying to single out your trainee, but what does "a typical" Pro these days use in terms of drugs (we all are familiar with the compounds available) but since you mention having first hand experience with one of today's Professionals, can you give an "example" year or season of drug regime?
Click to expand...
 
matthew76 said:
W/O giving his name - yes. The compounds that are readily available to him are {anything related to hormones - TEST, HGH, ect} He is on cycle for a total of 9 out of 12 months on some form of TEST and year round on HGH. (IGF-1 and something else I think)

But the alarming thing is that he and a few others I know go through 120-150 7.5mg Vicoprofen a month. He curently started taking Celebrex for all his joint discomfort. I am talking to him about the possibilities of a stroke or heart-attack rates with Celebrex and the high doses of "juice" that he takes.

He's a really great guy and actually has a Masters - so he's not some ignorant "muscle-head" that the sport has a tendency to have a stigma for.

When he first started out in BB he was only 19 - he's 33 now. He claims each year will be his last, but I've been hearing that for 5 years now.
Click to expand...

I guess bodybuilding itself becomes an addiction, despite the drug use. It's truly sad, I mean at some point the ignorant muscle heads are ruled out anyway, its not exactly an idiots sport when all this science is involved
 
You know what's interesting? Watching Markus Ruhl strut around with his ridiculous size, drink and smoke on various occasions and somehow manage to get his wife pregnant.
 
pudzian2 said:
You know what's interesting? Watching Markus Ruhl strut around with his ridiculous size, drink and smoke on various occasions and somehow manage to get his wife pregnant.
Click to expand...

That's Marcus Ruhl, "big and loving it"

Invalid Link Removed

funny stuff
 
I tend to agree with what mathew is saying here. Very early on the levels of roid use were nowhere near as absurd as they are today. In the 60's and early 70's I doubt there were many people dosing 1 gram of test per week much less 2 and 3 grams like some people do now.

Other factors like the increased level of hypercalorism we see today are also extremely unhealthy.
 
bioman said:
I tend to agree with what mathew is saying here. Very early on the levels of roid use were nowhere near as absurd as they are today. In the 60's and early 70's I doubt there were many people dosing 1 gram of test per week much less 2 and 3 grams like some people do now.

Other factors like the increased level of hypercalorism we see today are also extremely unhealthy.
Click to expand...

excellent point. Shoving that much food down ones throat isnt exactly a healthy practice either.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top