Best Prohormone for Just Straight Massive Size???

Tom 185 said:
as far as epistane..i think it's the most overrated prosteroid on the market..didnt do anything for me but give me sides..i know many others that feel the same way
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I find your POV interesting but from your stats it looks like using a mild steroid at low doses isn't going to do anything for you in terms of packing on slabs of mass considering you're into the injectables no? Makes sense to me.

I'm not sure what you dosed or how your caloric was but there could be many contributing factors to your results or the lack thereof, then again there are many products that people experience the "just didn't work for me" for one reason or another...

Much Love,

Neoborn
 
RisingAgainst said:
That's because you learned everything you know in a way that everybody believed and have never heard otherwise.. the simple fact is, it's true.. toxicity wise.. side wise, of course not.. we arent talking about side effects, just toxicity.. side wise, m1t takes the cake, hands down. Like I said I don't have access to the bloodwork itself, but it has been done and has been proven that m1t isnt as toxic as our favorite di-methyl substance... that's a take it or leave thing for you I suppose, either way, we can agree to disagree and maintain our own beliefs.
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How about you drop the "holier than thou" attitude. Also, drop the Plato's Cave idea, then again you probably just took that from the Matrix. I assure you I have more medical training than you do. Not more than the people whose ideas you steal, but more than you.

I have seen plenty of blood work for both and while SD seems to hit the lipids worse, liver values seem to be worse with M1T. But again, each compound effects other people differently. However, as a trend I have seen that M1T was worse for the body overall.
 
mmowry said:
You still complaining about your Epi run.Come on get over it already.
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IBE's research chemicals are great. Epistane was just way overhyped for the results it produces. No one added as much mass as they did on superdrol, and It's partly my fault for believing I was going to get similar strength gains.
 
I did get better strength gains from Epistane with no sides so its back to people respond differently to these compounds.I like S D but Ill take Epi over it as a stand alone if sides are taken into consideration.
 
whattt?? come on bro, we all know gains are better on sd. im not saying epistane is bad at all, it is a top seller. i just think overall sd is better
 
So are you calling me a liar? I dont post to make sales,I post the truth from my point of view.So what criteria are ALL these people using?

BTW In my last post I specifically said in regard to sides.
 
Well, it could have been that was how the doc was trying to describe creatine in patient language. It's very probable that he knew exactly what it was.
 
aspire210 said:
How about you drop the "holier than thou" attitude. Also, drop the Plato's Cave idea, then again you probably just took that from the Matrix. I assure you I have more medical training than you do. Not more than the people whose ideas you steal, but more than you.

I have seen plenty of blood work for both and while superdrol seems to hit the lipids worse, liver values seem to be worse with M1T. But again, each compound effects other people differently. However, as a trend I have seen that M1T was worse for the body overall.
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Sigh.. I guess I have a lot of posting to do... ok first off I have no attitude here, I'm stating what I believe to be true and even told you to take it or leave it, it's not a big deal... I assure you that with my college drop out education you do have more than me, doesn't make you better than me in any way, except maybe your avatar makes you look a little more "sixteen candles and a bowl of ice cream". The reason the bloodwork on the m1t didn't look so hot is that nobody had the supporting supps we do now.. ever consider that one??? pffft... If people ran the same supporting supplements for m1t as they do for SD, I'm 100% confident that the blood work would blow your socks off.
 
neoborn said:
Posting quotes from BB.com's Leonidas??? isn't that a :banned: :banned: :banned: :banned: :banned: :banned: :banned: :banned: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono:

All on it's own?

:toofunny:

Much Love,

Neoborn
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He's also a member on my forum, I have zero affiliation with bb.com and between me and the readers of this, despise that forum.
 
Jayhawkk said:
Well, it could have been that was how the doc was trying to describe creatine in patient language. It's very probable that he knew exactly what it was.
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Sure man, that I can buy. I have come across a number of docs who will swear that you shouldn't even supplement with protein powder, for example. So I can see what you were trying to say now. :)
 
P4D2A022 said:
cant we all just get along
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x2
So heres the basic rundown i got form this thread...
D-bol - moderatly "safe" and mid size and mass gains.
M1T - Kicks your ass - Sic gains - once again,will own you
Superdrol - Very good size and strength - almost as harsh as M1T (user dependant of course)
Rise loves his Anadrol(oops this was form another thread...)
Gixxer could give 2 sh*ts bout MDs and owns.
Coug holds his ground nicely.
Neo is funny, as usuall.
I won't resopnd to emails i get for this thread naymore haha, just kidding.
 
dbol and anadrol? maybe we should of kept this discussion just to stuff readily available to everyone. besides, i wouldnt run bol or drol unless it was a kickoff of a test cycle. i still havent tried m1t but im really curious as to see how 'sick' the gains are compared to sd.

i think: m1t>sd>phera>epi in terms of size gains
 
Well, I don't tend to get involved in threads that devolve so quick...but if anyone is really that interested in my bio...it is available.

While there are many issues apparently with the MD's of today, perhaps you can take comfort in my 17-year industry involvement?


As you were...


D_
 
dinoiii said:
Well, I don't tend to get involved in threads that devolve so quick...but if anyone is really that interested in my bio...it is available.

While there are many issues apparently with the MD's of today, perhaps you can take comfort in my 17-year industry involvement?


As you were...


D_
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Glad you made it buddy ;)
 
The reason the bloodwork on the m1t didn't look so hot is that nobody had the supporting supps we do now.. ever consider that one??? pffft... If people ran the same supporting supplements for m1t as they do for superdrol, I'm 100% confident that the blood work would blow your socks off.
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Actually, those supporting supps were there and people did use them. The only real difference now versus then, is that we have those support supps in a more consumer friendly combination i.e.,cycle support.
 
Jayhawkk said:
Actually, those supporting supps were there and people did use them. The only real difference now versus then, is that we have those support supps in a more consumer friendly combination i.e.,cycle support.
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Eh, people used silymarin as a cure all for liver values.. while now we employ the usage of SAMe which is quite a bit more effective. my other defenses to that are kind of detailed and I'd rather not keep this thread in an erruption of madness, so I am gonna drop my end of the arguement and agree to disagree with everybody else on this one. I respect everyone else's opinions enough to not bother with pushing the issue further.
 
P4D2A022 said:
what do u mean that todays superdrols are tainted??
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'some' clones don't test out to be what they say... what I'm saying is, I personally won't run anything aside from the original or SNS. Nothing against any other companies, but I don't have the money to test theirs out to make sure what I'm ingesting is actually our fav. di-methyl substance or not.. whereas I know SNS and AX produced real clones of methasteron.
 
Jayhawkk said:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/21514-blood-work-after.html
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Those aren't the best of numbers bro, but what did you expect under the circumstances? the way we (as a whole) dosed and ran cycles back then was retarded, but we had no idea it was at the time.. IE: if you ran a 3 week cycle of M1t now, with the knowledge we have today, vs a 3 week cycle of SD, I still believe you'd have better numbers on your blood tests with the m1t trial... but alas, there's always variants in everything, hard to be precise in this industry sometimes. *EDIT* I finished reading, thank you for sharing that with me Jas.
 
dinoiii said:
Well, I don't tend to get involved in threads that devolve so quick...but if anyone is really that interested in my bio...it is available.

While there are many issues apparently with the MD's of today, perhaps you can take comfort in my 17-year industry involvement?


As you were...


D_
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Cool, I have heard a ton about you, but honestly know little. Welcome.
 
Gixxer82 said:
We don't doubt you, you have EXPERIENCE in the industry of which we are concerned. Most MDs do NOT. These are the guys that I was referring to as "don't know jack"
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I see what you are saying. Dinoiii is definitely one of the few MDs who are very well informed about sports supplements and Anabolics. I started researching on boards like this 6 years ago when i was only 16 because i want to be the type of physician who is informed about all of these things. That's why im still going to try and keep up with whats going on in the supp industry even when i start Medical school next year.

No hard feelings Gixxer82?
 
kingofthechiba said:
soo what do you think dinoiii?
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What you see here is an example of how things get a bit misinterpreted. At first glance, Jayhawkk's post would seemingly imply at, a superficial level, that M1T was the complete devil.

However, when looking a bit more closely...one can also appreciate that T3 and Clen have significant liver metabolism (and it appears he used other things too which are a bit more unclear in the metabolic sense). Pegging it on the M1T is highly unfair, and I would be willing to challenge it with many lab results of M1T monotherapeutic trials that suggest the contrary.

One thing too that I acknowledged (but it may have been looked over because of the attempts to discredit RA's post because of its potential origin on another forum), was the fact that MANY M1T supplements (as well as MOHN and M1D from the 2nd generation) had significant issues PRE-BAN with actually testing out to meet label claims accurately. I would be more inclined to blame the other exogenous elements than I would for Jayhawkk's incredible discrepency in transferase values.

D_
 
I always have tried to make it clear that my case was a case of abuse but I would be willing to bet that my intake is probably more of what you would see. Look at my daily dosages vs. what many here and other boards will say they're taking. It may not be the devil itself but I bet it is at least his first cousin.
 
Gixxer82 said:
We don't doubt you, you have EXPERIENCE in the industry of which we are concerned. Most MDs do NOT. These are the guys that I was referring to as "don't know jack"
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I was merely apologizing for your apparent past experience with physicians which would make you view them so unfavorably. I don't completely disagree, but certainly wouldn't blanket that sentiment either.

I too, would NOT suggest that the knowledge I have obtained has come from medical school or residency training, et al... Still, the lengths of schooling and the like have certainly contributed to my examination of the literature, etc... You will trust that I do my absolute best to present a signicant survey of the literature that values your safety well before vanity. It is a unique view that your favorite supplement company would likely not be 100% clear about either mind you. I presume the discrepency between this industry and the medical industry (yes, I view medicine as an industry rather than some altruistic drive) exists because each are driving to extinguish the other rather than work together to arrive at a "truth," should one exist.

Now, please don't misunderstand what I am saying. I can appreciate desires to achieve glamorous physique (you may also find comfort that I competed in various shows many moons ago, I have simply shifted my desires to living vicariously through other people's physique attainment).


D_
 
Jayhawkk said:
I always have tried to make it clear that my case was a case of abuse but I would be willing to bet that my intake is probably more of what you would see. Look at my daily dosages vs. what many here and other boards will say they're taking. It may not be the devil itself but I bet it is at least his first cousin.
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Fair enough, but it certainly is hard to deny its extended family (PH/PS/DeS generations 1-6 either) share some of the same deleterious effects.

I suppose it is hard to rationalize gray-markets all-in-all. If this was a potency suggestion however...believe it or not, I am going to suggest from lab data that on a mg-for-mg basis...SD trumps M1T. Please to those reading, do not confuse potency the way I am suggesting it to equate with efficacy.


D_
 
Travis said:
Cool, I have heard a ton about you, but honestly know little. Welcome.
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Thank you very much for the welcome. I do have my enemies as much as anyone else who has been in the industry as long...so I hope you are getting your info from the appropriate places (in other words, hopefully much of what you have heard has been "good"). HA!


D_
 
Wow Dinoii a crown in twenty six posts.....that's impressive. I hope non of the BB.com crowd follow you over here though :(.

Much Love,

Neoborn
 
Gixxer82 said:
That was not meant to be negative in any way towards you. I was being reverent towards you. I would respect your opinion as a MD and as a friend, why? Because you have been around and you know better than me. Building the physique of your dreams is a long and somewhat unhealthy road. Proper cycling and technique can be relatively "safe." Most doctors seem to take the "media" approach to anabolic steroids.
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Absolutely no hard feelings - trust me.

Your opinion of other physicians is noted AND understood to be shared by many actually.


D_
 
neoborn said:
Wow Dinoii a crown in twenty six posts.....that's impressive. I hope non of the BB.com crowd follow you over here though :(.

Much Love,

Neoborn
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I don't even know what the hell crowns mean to be honest with you. :o HA! If I did ... perhaps the accolade would seem more of an honor.


btw: I am NOT originally from bb.com (though I was recently coerced to post there more). I am actually from the ole Syntrax board - when the company was still decent if you want an origin (many that post these days likely wouldn't remember that bunch), but outside of that DA is what I would have called home ... I have 6,000+ posts there since 2004. I have been recently granted a subforum over at leanbulk.com though and likely check that much more frequent these days.


D_
 
ozarkaBRAND said:
Wayyy off topic.. But, anyone know just how hepatoxic M,1-4ADD is?
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Not necessarily that far off topic. How hepatotoxic in comparison to SD + M1T -or- relative toxicity as in transaminase lab findings, etc...

Recall that transaminase elevations (liver enzymes like AST, ALT) are very non-specific and things like bilirubin, CPK, amongst a battery of other lab studies give us a much clearer picture of hepatocyte (liver cell) insult.


D_
 
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