[windwords7]

LMAO, yeah no joke. I bet he meant mg.

[Kylixer]

actually I meant 20 to 30 grams.... is that too much or something? I was wondering why I had to take like 40 pills a day...

yeah, I meant mg, sorry

and more carbs seems to be helping the head

[max silver]

This thread has me pretty excited to give the ALCAR a go. I've been cutting and using r-ala, biotin and gla, just waiting on my order from 1-fast to get in to start up the ALCAR as well.

I'm thinking of giving that a go for awhile without the cla as I'm already spending a ridiculous amount on supplements right now, but hopefully these will help me to keep the fat off once I end my current superone+cycle.

[Kitchen Chemist]

They have it now max silver

[Alpha Dog]

Rather than gulping 16 grams worth of CLA, 2 grams of ALC, 3 grams ALA, etc, etc. could you mix a days worth of powder with juice/water and just sip it throughout the day? Or do some of the actives in the stack degrade rapidly in water? I just hate taking gobs of pills and I often times forget.

[Kitchen Chemist]

I forget sometimes too bow, especially throughout the day. I see no reason why not but you never know.

[ex_banana-eater]

I got a reply from Bryan Haycock when I asked him questions on his view about green tea. Here it is:

You are right that reducing caloric intake or drastically altering macronutrient ratios in the diet can effect hormone levels.

However, my comments on the effects of green tea on androgen activity were based on a wider aray of research on the subject.

1) Hiipakka RA, Zhang HZ, Dai W, Dai Q, Liao S. Structure-activity relationships for inhibition of human 5alpha-reductases by polyphenols. Biochem Pharmacol. 2002 Mar 15;63(6):1165-76.

“Since some of these compounds [EGCG and others] are consumed as part of the normal diet or in supplements, they have the potential to inhibit 5 alpha-reductase activity, which may be useful for the prevention or treatment of androgen-dependent disorders.However, these compounds also may adversely affect male sexual differentiation.”

2) Liao S. The medicinal action of androgens and green tea epigallocatechin gallate. Hong Kong Med J. 2001 Dec;7(4):369-74.

“It is now clear that a specific green tea catechin, (-)epigallocatechin-3-gallate, can modulate the production and biological actions of androgens and other hormones.
Modulation of androgenic activity and administration of (-)epigallocatechin-3-gallate may be useful for the treatment of various hormone-related abnormalities, such as benign prostatic hyperplasia, baldness, and acne, as well as androgen-dependent and -independent prostate cancers.”


3) Ren F, Zhang S, Mitchell SH, Butler R, Young CY. Tea polyphenols down-regulate the expression of the androgen receptor in LNCaP prostate cancer cells. Oncogene. 2000 Apr 6;19(15):1924-32.

“In conclusion, we have described a new property of tea polyphenols that inhibits
androgen action by repressing the transcription of the androgen receptor gene.”


4) Liao S, Hiipakka RA. Selective inhibition of steroid 5 alpha-reductase isozymes by tea
epicatechin-3-gallate and epigallocatechin-3-gallate. Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 1995 Sep 25;214(3):833-8.

“(-)Epigallocatechin-3-gallate also inhibits accessory sex gland growth in the rat. These results suggest that certain tea gallates can regulate androgen action in target organs.”



And from the study you referred to…
5) Kao YH, Hiipakka RA, Liao S Modulation of endocrine systems and food intake by green tea epigallocatechin gallate. Endocrinology. 2000 Mar;141(3):980-7.

“The effect of EGCG on the weight of male accessory sexual organs was due to lowered circulating levels of testosterone. This conclusion is supported by the following observations. 1) Androgens such as TP and DHTP blocked the effect of EGCG on the weight of accessory sexual organs, including prostates. 2) EGCG did not reduce prostate weight in androgen-supplemented castrated Sprague Dawley rats (our unpublished observations). 3) EGCG-induced weight loss of prostate and other androgen-sensitive organs was accompanied by an EGCG-induced lowering of serum testosterone.”

Continuing…

“ Also, by lowering plasma levels of sex steroids and other endocrine factors, such as IGF-I, long term use of EGCG or green tea may be effective in the prevention and suppression of the growth of hormone-dependent and -independent prostate and breast cancer (14, 34, 35). This may relate to the low occurrence of breast and prostate cancer metastasis and mortality in some Asian countries (14, 36) where green tea is consumed regularly. Despite many potential benefits of green tea and EGCG consumption, it is also important to evaluate undesirable health-related consequences that may arise from EGCG- induced reductions in the levels of sex steroid hormones and other endocrine factors.”However, these compounds also may adversely affect male sexual differentiation.”

[motleybreu]

i started on saturday.....i feel great!! thanks ww7 for the heads up on this stuff and wojo and everyone for some good input. EVERYONE should give this stack a shot

[windwords7]

Originally posted by motleybreu
i started on saturday.....i feel great!! thanks ww7 for the heads up on this stuff and wojo and everyone for some good input. EVERYONE should give this stack a shot

You bet bro! Im glad I found it too.

[wojo]

Originally posted by bow
Rather than gulping 16 grams worth of CLA, 2 grams of ALC, 3 grams ALA, etc, etc. could you mix a days worth of powder with juice/water and just sip it throughout the day? Or do some of the actives in the stack degrade rapidly in water? I just hate taking gobs of pills and I often times forget.

i know cla has a long halflife in the body im not so sure bout ala or alcar..si guess u could pop all ur cla at once and spreda the other 2 3x a day

[weissmuller]

Its been a while since I've posted here, but this thread caught my attention and wanted to give my input.

I've been using ALCar for a little over a week at 1 g/day over two doses and the stuff is incredible. Endurance in my morning cardio has improved dramatically and overall feel much more awake and alert. This stuff is awesome especially for its price. Gonna add a 3rd dosing very soon and later go up to 3 x 800mg.

Also started taking r-ALA in post-workout/cardio(only carb meals) at 200mg and will up this now that I am comfortable with it. In addition taking green tea extract from Now Foods and gonna play with its dosing.

Overall I've only seen short term effects, but they have been incredible, especially ALCar. Now I am just really need to fine-tune carb meals and supps a little.

The one question I have is CLA. It seems tonalin is the most respected form. But I was looking at NOW FOOD’s, which is a ton cheaper, and their percent composition of the 2 main isomers falls within the range of tonalin's. The only major difference was a lower percent of CLA in the product. Are there any other differences between the two? If not then NOW's is an incredible value. The main reason I ask is cause I have seen very little feedback on NOW's CLA and all the positive feedback is from a product that uses the tonalin CLA.

[wojo]

i know a lot of guys prefer the NOW brand as tonalin is priced rediculously high and every person i have read that tried kilosports cla(tonalin)
heres the cheapest i found

http://www.dextersportscience.com/pr...t.cfm?catid=12

[Kylixer]

Hey, anyone see any problem with stacking the Anarchy stack with a two week cycle of UCP-1?

[windwords7]

Originally posted by Kylixer
Hey, anyone see any problem with stacking the Anarchy stack with a two week cycle of UCP-1?

No problem at all.

[ex_banana-eater]

No comments on the studies posted in my last reply?

[custom]

Wanted to gove a little update on my stack, as its the 5th week Im doing it.

I ran out of CLA, and my body composition has really seemed to suffer. I noticed it pretty quick, even though there was a zero change in diet and even an increase in cardio. I really think the CLA has some terrific reparitioning effects, and needless to say, this is going to be one of my staple supplements for some time to come.

I upped the dose of ALC from 500mg 3 times daily to 1 gram 3 times dialy, and muscle endurance is way up. I can crank out more reps on virtually every exercise, and cardio is getting musch easier since I did this as well.

Cant wait until I get some more CLA so I can get back to where I was asthetically wise. This stack is some good stuff.

[MJC#24]

Originally posted by custom
Wanted to gove a little update on my stack, as its the 5th week Im doing it.

I ran out of CLA, and my body composition has really seemed to suffer. I noticed it pretty quick, even though there was a zero change in diet and even an increase in cardio. I really think the CLA has some terrific reparitioning effects, and needless to say, this is going to be one of my staple supplements for some time to come.

I upped the dose of ALC from 500mg 3 times daily to 1 gram 3 times dialy, and muscle endurance is way up. I can crank out more reps on virtually every exercise, and cardio is getting musch easier since I did this as well.

Cant wait until I get some more CLA so I can get back to where I was asthetically wise. This stack is some good stuff.

likewise mate. I ran out of CLA about 6 weeks ago but I also added ALCAR at the same time so I didn't gain any but actually lost some fat!
Which brand of CLA are you using bro? my 'instyncters' should be here any day now..

wojo,
ala exists as an antioxidant inside the cell for ~ 9 hrs and I believe ALCAR is still present for weeks after use, which is why you can still "feel" the effects even on the days you dont supp with it.

[wojo]

Originally posted by custom
Wanted to gove a little update on my stack, as its the 5th week Im doing it.

I ran out of CLA, and my body composition has really seemed to suffer. I noticed it pretty quick, even though there was a zero change in diet and even an increase in cardio. I really think the CLA has some terrific reparitioning effects, and needless to say, this is going to be one of my staple supplements for some time to come.

I upped the dose of ALC from 500mg 3 times daily to 1 gram 3 times dialy, and muscle endurance is way up. I can crank out more reps on virtually every exercise, and cardio is getting musch easier since I did this as well.

Cant wait until I get some more CLA so I can get back to where I was asthetically wise. This stack is some good stuff.

i noticed a similar experience when i first tried cla ..since then it hasnt seemed to work as well for me..personally i prefer 2 grams of alcar and up going for 5 after this t-1 cycle