Acetyl L-Carnitine (Alcar) and the Anarchy Stack...post in here!

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    Since ive been doing this ive had to pee at least 5-10 more times a day, is this maybe because of the extra water/tea im drinking, or do any of these things make u lose water

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    Got my stuff!!!YAYA...now can u help me out...heres what I got and what im thinkin I should be usin...

    2-200Gram bottles of cla going low on it to make it last and see how it is so....bottle says 3/4tsp=1.7g and 3 lvl teaspoons=6.7g
    Read all the posts and dont think theres a prob with this stuff at night so
    3lvl teaspoons in the morning before breakfast and 3 in the evening before bed CLA=13.4g daily

    3-100Gram btls of ALCAR..came with little scoop thing..so 1 scoop is 500mg...1 scoop w/ breakfast and 1 scoop with meal at 1 or 2pm...for a gram and then add a scoop after a week or so in between..ALCAR 1gram

    2-50gram bottles of ala...scoop thing again and its 250mg per scoop. So 2 scoops per meal as long as theres a moderate amount of carbs..so approx 3-4 meals a day so 750mg-1000mg a day of ALA

    1-50Gram btl biotin btl no scoop but will use half of the other 1 ml scoop that came with alcar bottle for 300mg...once in evening?it alos says yield is 3mg..BIOTIN

    2-100Gram btls of green tea extract (40%)...no heres where i get lost..it says lvl 1/4 teaspoon = 500mg green tea w/ 40% total polyphenols,is also equal to 4 cups of green tea...How do you take this...mix it in a certain oz of water and if so how much water due you mix with the 1/4tsp to make it drinkable...and how often due you drink it? Or due you plug your nose and swallow it with water all at once?GTE

    3-50Gram btls of Vin...1ml scoop=500mg and that is 490mg glutamine and 10 mg vin...so I will take 3 scoops during the day...doesnt matter time as it wont keep u up...so 30mg of VIN

    Am in line and if not could you help me out where im off....thank you for reading all my crap and I tried to research it as much as possible in these 15 pages but my mind dont always digest ml..mg..grams..and the tea is way confusing...Thanks again breezed
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    good lord theres some great feedback here..i did notice the first time i used just cla alone at 15 grams a day i got away eating less strict but for some reason after that initial phase and then a off phase it doesnt seem to work that wll..anyone else notice this?
    •   
       

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    Breezed, everything looks good. The Green tea extract from BAC is not supposed to be made into a beverage (at least if you bought the high potency one)....just chase it with water. Also, since the 1ml scoop is equal to 1/5 tsp.....you can also use that to approximate the green tea dosing.
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    ...or cap em
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    Well I got just the normal one not the one that says it tastes like crap...So how often due you take it during the day and at what time due u stop to fall asleep? Thanks for the help all... See how this stuff goes...I just went to the doc and weighed in at 208...and I think I will take some pictures today and then again every 2 weeks and see if theres a noticable change...
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    well it doesnt effect my sleep...the caffeine doesn't get to me. Spread it out throughout the day...don't take too much at once. Post the pics!!
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    Also...depending on the variety....the 4x extract I have minus caffiene knocks me out...so taking it late at night is a bonus. Since your's is similar to the tea, just realize each dose has about 40mg of caffeine and adjust accordingly.
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    Talking


    Ohhh my god....not smart mixed all the powders and thought well Ill just mix it in with powerade......God awful......it all floats and burns like hell...lol....chasing it with water helps but ohhh lordy should have got capsules...lol...and I will post my pics in a day or two....time to go to the gym..


    ohhh anf flame away I deserve it
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    wojo I think with cla you have to use leptin???
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    Hey breezed try some citrus, the oj might mix it up better.
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    These studies seem to show that even small dosages of CLA will lower leptin, but doesn't change appetite. They also indicate that CLA will eventually induce insulin resistance, which is reversed by leptin administration...

    Well there is a supplement called "leptigen" which is supposed to raise leptin. So I guess for someone ingesting close to 20g CLA a day, this is also required for long-term benefit... Or cycling the bloddy-expensive stuff, instead of adding another expensive supplement to this stack?


    Conjugated linoleic acid supplementation reduces adipose tissue by apoptosis and develops lipodystrophy in mice.

    Tsuboyama-Kasaoka N, Takahashi M, Tanemura K, Kim HJ, Tange T, Okuyama H, Kasai M, Ikemoto S, Ezaki O.

    Division of Clinical Nutrition, National Institute of Health and Nutrition, Tokyo, Japan.

    Conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) is a naturally occurring group of dienoic derivatives of linoleic acid found in beef and dairy products. CLA has been reported to reduce body fat. To examine the mechanism(s) of CLA reduction of fat mass, female C57BL/6J mice were fed standard semipurified diets (10% fat of total energy) with or without CLA (1% wt/wt). Terminal deoxynucleotidyl transferase-mediated dUTP-biotin nick endlabeling (TUNEL) and DNA fragmentation analysis revealed that fat-mass decrease by CLA was mainly due to apoptosis. Tumor necrosis factor (TNF)-alpha and uncoupling protein (UCP)-2 mRNA levels increased 12- and 6-fold, respectively, in isolated adipocytes from CLA-fed mice compared with control mice. Because it is known that TNF-alpha induces apoptosis of adipocytes and upregulates UCP2 mRNA, a marked increase of TNF-alpha mRNA with an increase of UCP2 in adipocytes caused CLA-induced apoptosis. However, with a decrease of fat mass, CLA supplementation resulted in a state resembling lipoatrophic diabetes: ablation of brown adipose tissue, a marked reduction of white adipose tissue, marked hepatomegaly, and marked insulin resistance. CLA supplementation decreased blood leptin levels, but continuous leptin infusion reversed hyperinsulinemia, indicating that leptin depletion contributes to the development of insulin resistance. These results demonstrate that intake of CLA reduces adipose tissue by apoptosis and results in lipodystrophy, but hyperinsulinemia by CLA can be normalized by leptin administration.



    Conjugated linoleic acid supplementation in humans: effects on circulating leptin concentrations and appetite.

    Medina EA, Horn WF, Keim NL, Havel PJ, Benito P, Kelley DS, Nelson GJ, Erickson KL.

    Department of Cell Biology and Human Anatomy, School of Medicine, University of California, Davis 95616, USA.

    Conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) has been demonstrated to reduce body fat in animals. However, the mechanism by which this reduction occurs is unknown. Leptin may mediate the effect of CLA to decrease body fat. We assessed the effects of 64 d of CLA supplementation (3 g/d) on circulating leptin, insulin, glucose, and lactate concentrations in healthy women. Appetite was assessed as a physiological correlate of changes in circulating leptin levels. Analysis of plasma leptin concentrations adjusted for adiposity by using fat mass as a covariate showed that CLA supplementation significantly decreased circulating leptin concentrations in the absence of any changes of fat mass. Mean leptin levels decreased over the first 7 wk and then returned to baseline levels over the last 2 wk of the study in the CLA-treated group. Appetite parameters measured at around the time when the greatest decreases in leptin levels were observed showed no significant differences between supplementation and baseline determinations in the CLA-supplemented group or between the CLA and placebo-supplemented groups. There was a nonsignificant trend for mean insulin levels to increase toward the end of the supplementation period in CLA-treated subjects. CLA did not affect plasma glucose and lactate over the treatment period. Thus, 64 d of CLA supplementation in women produced a transient decrease in leptin levels but did not alter appetite. CLA did not affect these parameters in a manner that promoted decreases of adiposity.
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    is it the ala that burns the crap out of your throat......and does r-ala do the same...cause if it dont then I think Im going to have to switch as that stuff burns and makes my throat tender...
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    Originally posted by Breezed_one
    is it the ala that burns the crap out of your throat......and does r-ala do the same...cause if it dont then I think Im going to have to switch as that stuff burns and makes my throat tender...
    Yeah it can really burn, I HATE that!
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    My girlfriend is trying this and she cant hang with downing all the powder...I know you can buy a capsule machine...Are the easy to use and what size should I get? And are they really only 10 bucks?

    never mind did a search and went with size 1 from kilosports....
    Last edited by Breezed_one; 07-26-2003 at 07:44 PM.
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    The ala...and powder r-ala do burn. Thus the reason most take it in cap form. ALCAR, biotin, even GT (bad taste but..) can be handled in powder, but with the conveince factor, I like the r-ala in caps. That said, I did do a 3 month stint of 2grams+ (sometimes 3 or 4) of ALA powder only, and must say that you do get used to it or at least perfect ways of minimizing discomfort.
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    Im going to cap the ala and the cla...Cla doesnt mix in to liquids that I have tried and its butt flavor is way strong....I also see why the cla is dropped out...400 grams aint going last long between the 2 of us...
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    Originally posted by Breezed_one
    is it the ala that burns the crap out of your throat......and does r-ala do the same...cause if it dont then I think Im going to have to switch as that stuff burns and makes my throat tender...
    ok this maybe a little unorthodox but try mixing ur ala and alcar powders in a DIET 7-up..seriously
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    I can see that wojo....the carbonation would probably help a lot. My trick is chasing with apple cider vinegar...especially post workout as it itself is a glucose disposal agent from the acetate.
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    Good advice Scottyo, especially considering the powerful liver-detoxification properties of apple cider vinegar... I wonder if that does anything for the guys on androgens too?
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    An interesting alternative to CLA would be fish oil, which does not lower leptin or cause insulin resistance but does have many of the same chemical properties as CLA. The best part however is that you can get 500 capsules of it for like 16 bucks at walmart
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    Originally posted by maggmaster
    An interesting alternative to CLA would be fish oil, which does not lower leptin or cause insulin resistance but does have many of the same chemical properties as CLA. The best part however is that you can get 500 capsules of it for like 16 bucks at walmart
    i believe this was discussed about 10 pages ago lol...when did this get so long??? damn, i'd hate to have to read it all again
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    Yes...and fish oil's have no drawbacks that CLA might have. However, I think CLA has some unique benefits, but Ill stick to the fishies myself for price reasons. Plus daily supplies of salmon.
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    hmmm good call motleybrue I was merely restating for the people who just joined us....ahembull****
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    s'all good bro, there's so much info in this it's hard to keep track unless you go all the way back...

    i'm lovin it, everyone else doin aight with it? anybody not like it???
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    I like it well enough that I just bought another 60 days worth (LG this time!).

    The only thing I'm doing different this time is:
    * Doubling ALCAR from 1.5g to 3.0g
    * Doubling Green Tea from 1.2g to 2.4g
    * Switching from 1.2 mg Biotin to 5mg Biotin

    The only thing that I don't like is that my elbows are killing me. I think it's from taking 600mcg of Biotin twice daily so hoping that hopping on the 5mg cap once daily bandwagon will take care of it.

    ~Todd
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    Interesting post over at bb.com in the post ww7 started.

    Number 5
    I'm just wondering if CLA is completely safe.

    below is a post by robertthoburn from and avant lab forum:

    Spook: Check out this thread on CLA:

    http://forum.avantlabs.com/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=4761


    In regards to CLA and insulin resistance, Dr. Michael McIntosh another CLA researcher, told me recently, "As you are aware, many groups are examining how CLA reduces body fat, using a variety of in vivo and in vitro models. Ultimately, determining if, and how, CLA safely reduces body fat in humans needs to be examined. Based on work by Riserus et al. (Diabetes Care), trans-10, cis-12 CLA could worsen insulin resistance in obese, diabetic patients, especially if they are not energy or fat-restricted. If this occurs via PPAR-gamma antagonism, then it would oppose the actions of glucose lowering agents such as rosiglitazone, which could contribute to hyperglycemia and hyperinsulinemia in obese, diabetic patients. So CLA supplementation may not be for everyone trying to lose weight or body fat."
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    Good point tatortodd. We must keep in mind that most of us here are NOT obese and diabetic, and most of those who will use CLA will also use ALA which has such good insulin-mimetic properties that TEMPORARY insulin resistance would not be a problem.

    Also on my post on this page, one study says "CLA supplementation decreased blood leptin levels, but continuous leptin infusion reversed hyperinsulinemia, indicating that leptin depletion contributes to the development of insulin resistance. These results demonstrate that intake of CLA reduces adipose tissue by apoptosis and results in lipodystrophy, but hyperinsulinemia by CLA can be normalized by leptin administration."

    So, although it may not be COMPLETELY SAFE (well, actually, considering how ignorant the broad masses are, I'm sure for some of them it certainly is NOT) for us it must be... It reduces fat by apoptosis...
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    Hey there, I can't believe how long this thread is! SInce I could barely put a dent in it the first time I read it, I actually had to save it to my favorites and go back. That was 3 days ago, and now I just skipped like 6 pages b/c I have too many questions and am way too impatient. First of all, WW7, you're almost my hero with your overflow of knowlegde and good attitude. I've read that some of these doods (here and at BB.com) have tried to call you out about some stuff, but they've all been punked , which I think is funny. Anyhoo, through all of this random Anarchy Stack talk, I have not read where one female has tried this stack yet. Unbelievable! I would love to be the first guinea pig w/ovaries to give this a shot. I need to know what dosage would be good for me, though. I dont' have a sensitive stomach and I can afford the CLA (for now anyway). Here is my plan, minus dosage: CLA, ALA, R-ALA, Biotin, ALCAR, a multi-vitamin, GT (hopefully, the low caffeine supplement). Now, Ive heard all kinds of people adding stuff to this. Q10, Vin-something, Betaine, I of course don't know what any of this stuff is. MY stats are 5'7" @ 170 with 22% BF, looking to kill about 20-25 lbs andget really cut, but not much bigger. Hook me up with some good feedback and answers...because..what do I know? Im just a newbie and a chick
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    either r-ala or ala, don't need both and i'd just stick with the stack and not go too crazy at first, see how it effects you. Dosage i'm not sure about, maybe the others can help you with that.

    welcome to AM you'll love it here
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    Ok, as I recall at the beginning of this forum, and on other forums, there were people that were taking both the ALA and the R-ALA. Now, refresh my memory, what is the difference between the 2? How many carbs are you allowed per meal when you are taking these supplements praytell? And, does anyone have a cheat day on this plan? I definitely need my cheat day or at least a cheat meal.
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    Sorry to say, but your not the first female, as many people on animal's board have been "supplying" it to their signif. otehrs. However, females have had just as much success from what I can tell, and from what others have reported, its more of a weight then gender issue on dosing. Since you are about 170 I would stick to the basic dosing that has been described here in the plan. Secondly, r-ala is supposedly better then the racemic (ie normal version) and if you can afford it I would definetly recommend the r-ala caps. Shoot for 200mg of r-ala a meal, and carbs are carbs....these are not anti-carb supplements. If your dieting, a cheat meal would be fine as long as the other days cals in<cals out.
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    What would you guys think of just adding a gram a day of alcar in with some ucp-1, since I'll already be taking ala, would it be worth it?
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    would it be alright to put the ingrediients in some oil or alchohol and drink it. i want to get the powders from B A C since they are cheaper, but i can't find any info on if they would break down or something. i think this has been asked but i could not find an answer.
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    Originally posted by primal1
    would it be alright to put the ingrediients in some oil or alchohol and drink it. i want to get the powders from B A C since they are cheaper, but i can't find any info on if they would break down or something. i think this has been asked but i could not find an answer.
    &nbsp;

    just get one of these.. works a lot better than the cap-em-quick.. even though its only 24 at a time onstead of 50 like cap-em-quick.. i found this device way&nbsp;easier to use

    http://2line.com/CapsuleMachine.html&nbsp;
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    sanosuke, I just wanna say I love your name, that show rocks
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    Originally posted by goin_big
    sanosuke, I just wanna say I love your name, that show rocks
    &nbsp;

    lol thanks.. probably the only other person here thats seen it.. but yeah its the ****
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    Originally posted by Sanosuke


    &amp;nbsp;

    just get one of these.. works a lot better than the cap-em-quick.. even though its only 24 at a time onstead of 50 like cap-em-quick.. i found this device way&amp;nbsp;easier to use

    http://2line.com/CapsuleMachine.html&amp;nbsp;
    link does'nt work
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    Originally posted by primal1

    link does'nt work
    try this, worked for me

    http://www.2line.com/CapsuleMachine.html
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    Great thread.

    Wondering if there is a *major* disadvantage to mixing ALCar with water and downing it as compared to popping the pills?

    also, since it is a little on the bitter side, would tossing a splenda in the water/ALCar have any adverse effects on the ALCar?

    thanks.
  

  
 

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