- 12-14-2004, 01:43 PM
I'm sure you're sick of seeing 1-AD/4-AD threads, so I'm sorry.
Week 1: 1-AD 300mg, 4-AD 600mg
Week 2: 1-AD 300mg, 4-AD 600mg
Week 3: 1-AD 400mg, 4-AD 900mg
Week 4: 1-AD 400mg, 4-AD 900mg
Week 1: Nolvadex 40mg, Milk Thistle 1g, NAC 1g
Week 2: Nolvadex 40mg, Milk Thistle 1g, NAC 1g
Week 3: Nolvadex 20mg, Milk Thistle 1g, NAC 1g
Week 4: Nolvadex 20mg, Milk Thistle 1g, NAC 1g
Any opinions? Also, are there any adjustments to make when taking Nolvadex in pill form, rather than liquid?
- 12-14-2004, 01:55 PM
imo you wasted your money. 1ad is junk, not even worth wasting your PCT on. Try to selling the 1ad and buy some 1test.c There are some way better ph's out there than 1ad
- 12-14-2004, 02:03 PM
To answer your question I would bump the 1-ad dose to 600mgs a day, and keep the 4ad at 900.
Nolva is overdoing it, although more expensive I would go with 6-oxo instead.
The need of liver protectants in unwarranted as well, you are not using methylated androgens here, so it really isn't necessary.
I like 1-ad although I run it at 900-1000 mgs when I use it, not very cost effective. If this is your first cycle, by all means it is a good choice. Good luck with your cycle, and it's nice to see someone overly-cautious on their pct material, than overdoing it on their androgens.
12-14-2004, 02:06 PM
i think this is the 3rd time i have responded to undertaker's criticisms about 1-ad. although i respect his opinion, just know that for a large number of people - it works fantastically....and if you're like me and dont do transdermals - it might be the best test base you can get for the price (still working on that w/ my 1-test ether thread/investigation)Originally Posted by UNDERTAKER
i packed on 17lbs in 6 weeks on just 1-ad/4-ad and it wasnt my first cycle (although i did run it the best)
oh and make the 1-ad 600mg after week 2. you'll notice why as the gains slow. and personally, ALL my strength gains (which were formidable) came in weeks 5-6, although virtually all the weight came in weeks 2-4.
12-14-2004, 02:09 PM
It is my first cycle. Yeah, the reason I'm partial to Nolva is definitely because of the price. I didn't realize the liver protectants were worthless.
I would go for 6 weeks, but I hear mixed opinions saying that anything over 4 is worthless for 1-AD, and it would of course cost more.
12-14-2004, 02:11 PM
Liver protectants are not worthless, just not needed on this cycle.
6 weeks of 1-ad would be better, imo. It is not worthless.
Nolva is cheaper, but you have to deal with the side effects. Some would argue this point, but I think you should only use it when needed on harsher, and longer cycles.
12-14-2004, 02:12 PM
please explain why you reckon nolva is overdoing it? (as i dont agree) would you recommend it for a 1-test/4-ad cycle? then same rules apply. it really shuts you down, and nolva isnt going to hurt you. what's a little LESS estrogen in your body during PCT going to bother?Originally Posted by ryansm
also, i've seen some documentation that non-methylated oral PH can cause liver values to increase (never a good thing), so some protection isnt a bad idea. 2 weeks into PCT of that cycle my values hovered around the top of the range (one below, one above) but i've used methyls prior to that. i was on milk thistle only at the time (got NAC and ALA for the remainder of PCT which just ended last week)
12-14-2004, 02:18 PM
Nolva is effective, so is 6-oxo for this cycle.
I avoid using it unless necessary, I feel it's not in this case.
Read this thread, and deduce your own conclusion,http://www.anabolicminds.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=19136.
As far as liver protectants, yes non-methylated androgens can cause a raise in liver values, but not to the levels of methylated androgens.
I really don't think it's needed, but it is good practice on his part. Nolva can raise liver values as well, if you decide to use it then by all means use the milkthistle.
Last edited by ryansm; 12-14-2004 at 02:43 PM.
12-14-2004, 03:25 PM
why not do trandermals? There more safe. I think that much of the wieght you gained on your 1ad/4ad cycle was from the 4ad. 1ad turns into 1test so why not just do 1t?
12-14-2004, 03:40 PM
ryansm i've read that thread and the associated studies - i know alot of guys agree with me (based on science and of course bro-ology) that nolva is low-risk. then again there was that guy in my gym that got ovarian cancer. but that was a freak thing.Originally Posted by UNDERTAKER
that's right i forgot that nolva can raise liver values a bit on its own - all the more reason to protect your one and probably only liver.
undertaker - i gained most of those 17lbs from 4-ad? you need to quit sniffing those ashes at work. i swear bb.com is the 1-ad board and this is the 1-test board, and nobody likes the other (granted, i rarely post there anymore for obvious reasons, despite liking 1-ad)...they manifest very similarly in your body. 1-ad has good oral bioavailability (turns right into 1-test) and countless cycles show it works well in nearly every case (when the user gives a caloric surplus of quality foods and trains properly of course)
i personally just dont dig on on the dermals, baby...my lifestyle prevents it and i find them to be a hassle. plus i like really precise dosing, which is why i dont even do 4-ad transdermally (even though heaven knows its cheaper)
explain to me why transdermal 1-test is "safer" than 1-ad. seriously. we have established that 1-ad MAY raise liver values a bit, but thats sorta heresay and not awfully well-documented. any other health issues with it that dont exist with 1-test?
12-14-2004, 03:49 PM
12-14-2004, 04:29 PM
So does Tylenol, and other otc drugs. Really your argument that it's damaging is unfounded.
I personally believe in limiting SERM use, and a 1ad/4ad cycle is not something I feel is necessary to use Nolva. 6-oxo, DHEA, Fenugreek, 7-0h, all would be great if utilized in pct in place of Nolva.
12-14-2004, 04:38 PM
all I am saying is that imo, 1ad sucks. Why use something that converts to 1t when you can just use 1t and I agree with you, Nolva is not needed.
12-14-2004, 04:38 PM
so by your very strict standards on what you'll allow to pass through your liver - i assume you never drink alcohol, that you never go to bars where it's smokey, take prescription drugs and that you've never touched methyls.Originally Posted by UNDERTAKER
basically - what's a "slight" risk? we arent doctors. i can tell you it probably wont get very high, even with nolva PCT. i'll scan the blood test if you want.
12-14-2004, 04:40 PM
12-14-2004, 04:40 PM
12-14-2004, 04:46 PM
I have used both, and have had good gains from both. I personally prefer 1-test T/D than 1-ad, for cost reasons, and effectiveness. However, 1-ad does work, and there are some who are unable to do T/D cycles.Originally Posted by UNDERTAKER
12-14-2004, 04:50 PM
when we talk about anti-e's during PCT, we are talking about crutching a hormonal imbalance that exists due to our natty test being suppressed for several weeks. there is enough evidence to support that 1-ad suppresses you just as much as 1-test, and therefore the same rules apply for anti-e requirements. would you recommend 6OXO for a 1-t/4-ad cycle? (and yes, it would probably work OK for either one, to be perfectly honest) but for my body and my money - i take nolva (also i'll do low-dose clomid to jumpstart my boys) yeah it's a SERM but i think about the difference between compounds that effectively block estrogen versus those that only prevent aromatization of natty test....it seems like a large gap. if i am barely making any natty test that first few days after my cycle ends, how much estrogen (only the kind that aromatizes from the test i am making) is 6OXO going to block? as long as no hard evidence exists - i'll take the pro's lead and err on the side of (hormonal) safety.Originally Posted by ryansm
12-14-2004, 05:06 PM
I used to take Nolva after every cycle pretty much, and I agree that it's more effective than 6-oxo, but like I said I use it sparingly. I guess we shall agree to disagree.
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