4 AD cycle advice

[DudleyDawson]

Is this a sound cycle? I got if off another board. I have been researching prohormones for quite some time. Leaning towards taking orals for a variety of reasons, and want to go with 4 ad since it is not as androgenic as a lot of the other ph's. Also, I really want to avoid any hair loss issues, so I will be keeping the cycle to 3 weeks or less. I really respect the knowledge level of this board.

Here is a protocol we have 3 clients on and they swear by it. You use 4AD, 6-oxo, and Aromazap in an overlapping way. The basics of it is that you go 3weeks on/2weeks off with the 4AD. Here is the layout:

5week total cycle period as follows:

Weeks 1&2 4Ad 400-600mgs/50mg aromazap 3 times per day.

Week 3 4Ad 400-600mgs/50mg aromazap plus 100mg 6-oxo 3 times per day.

Week 4 6-oxo 200mgs/50mg aromazap 3 times per day.

Week 5 6-oxo 300mgs 3 times per day.

Then repeat cycle.

All 3 guys used all orals and have repeated this 4 times now. Very little bloating most likely from the use of Aromazap during the cycle. Each have gained over 25lbs and are much leaner. For example here is the basic stats of the guy with the least results:

6 years training experience with only 1 prior peroid of PH use 2 years ago and no steroid use prior.

Week 1 222lbs 18% bodyfat
Week 20 248lbs 14.5% bodyfat

 

[Kellyb]

You'd probably be better off with a transdermal 4-AD + 6-oxo. I would consider the use of an estrogen antagonist or aromatase inhibitor standard with a 4-AD cycle. There is something funky about 4-AD that leads to water and fat retention. Technically it's not supposed to directly aromatize into estrogen but what it still causes more bloating then could be possible from the conversion of test into estrogen. I've used Rx test injections and cream and have also used transdermal and oral 4-AD. The 4-AD can put some weight on you in a similar manner but it doesn't have the body composition changing effects.

 

[DudleyDawson]

Transdermals are not an option at this point. Are you saying that the aromazap is not necessary?

 

[Longdog]

Transdermals are not an option at this point. Are you saying that the aromazap is not necessary?

I think you'd be very dissapointed with that cycle. Whoever put that together is no expert.

Aromazap is not nessary. It will help control the bloating, but you probably won't bloat at your dose. If you do, go ahead & use it.

A 3-weeker of 4ad will not leave you with much for gains, it takes nearly 3 weeks to begin to make gains. I suggest extending it to 6 weeks. Using 3 week cycles will not change the hair loss risk, you are either prone to MPB or not. Use spiro on-cycle & you should be fine.

600mg of oral 4ad alone will do very little for you, you'll need 800-1200mg. Oral is not very effective & requires a large dose. Transdermal would be much better & also cheaper. 6-oxo is sufficient for PCT, but nolva is better & much cheaper. I would run 6 week cycles this way, followed by 4 weeks of PCT. Then take at least 6 weeks off between cycles (following PCT)to maximize recovery & gains.

 

[DudleyDawson]

Whoever put that together is no expert

He may not be an expert but those are the type of results I'm looking for. His client gained 40 pds LBM in 20 weeks.
Thank you for your input.

 

[cr4ytonic]

Dude there are much better cycles on this board. If somebody gained 40 off that the must have JUST started lifting and gotten the beginners boost.

 

[LIFTER23]

So what would be a better, and still simple cycle that would create those results with a smaller chance of hair loss?

 

[cr4ytonic]

If you can't do transdermal look into m4ohn or 1-ad.

 

[Cardinal]

He may not be an expert but those are the type of results I'm looking for. His client gained 40 pds LBM in 20 weeks.
Thank you for your input.

Check out some of the more detailed logs here. IMO, except in the most extreme circumstances, gaining 40 lbs of actualy muscle tissue in 20 weeks is simply unrealistic. LBM can be deceptive, because most people include water retention (everything but fat mass) in that definition, which horribly skews the picture. Keep that in mind.

 

[jas123]

Yeah, I don't buy it. 40pds LBM is huge and I don't think that you could drop your bodyfat that much from just 4ad as your sole androgen, especially if this guy had been lifting for 6 years already. M4OHN, M1,4AD, 1,4AD, and 19nor would all be decent options for ph/ps with low androgenic sides. Unfortunately posts like the one you read give people unrealistic expectations about what to expect from a cycle of ph's. I would disregard that post completely. Also, most cycles should be 4-6 weeks, but it depends on the substance. Good Luck, bro.

 

[DudleyDawson]

Does anyone know of a 4 ad transdermal that has formestane already mixed in?

 

[Longdog]

Does anyone know of a 4 ad transdermal that has formestane already mixed in?

I doubt you'll find one. Just make it yourself or just add a few grams of formestane to a pre-made 4ad dermal.