CK/Anabolic Diet mega thread - AnabolicMinds.com - Page 2

CK/Anabolic Diet mega thread

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    Thank you for that lengthy post Botch. That answered a lot of questions that I'm sure many people here, including myself, were thinking.

    My question is about alcohol. If a had a few beers one night around midweek, not during my carbup, would that still be ok, assuming that I'm not eating any fats or other carbs while i'm drinking?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Esox Express View Post
    Thank you for that lengthy post Botch. That answered a lot of questions that I'm sure many people here, including myself, were thinking.

    My question is about alcohol. If a had a few beers one night around midweek, not during my carbup, would that still be ok, assuming that I'm not eating any fats or other carbs while i'm drinking?
    The only problem I can see, as long as you are drinking an alcoholic beverage low in carbs is that it may screw with your T/E ratios. I wouldn't recommend it, however I can't say that I haven't done it myself at one time or another. Now, if you only have a couple drinks during the week on occasion you will be just fine, but if you're drinking several nights a week then it may become a problem. I would save my beer drinking for the weekends 99% of the time but if there was a social event that I attended during the week I may put back a brew or two with the guys. However, this is something I would do very occasionally and since we are all working hard on this diet to better ourselves anyways I think it is good to restrain yourself from alcohol. Especially because you are already okay to have a couple during the carb up, which is plenty IMO.

    The good news is that this diet is GREAT for a hangover, lol. Have you ever wondered why you crave greezy a** foods the morning after a night of heavy drinking? Then, when you eat a bunch (like a huge McDonalds meal) you feel like shlt? The rise in insulin you receive from that meal is the reason you feel like shlt after eating. Your body just went through a night of feeling great as you were drunk and once you give it that little pick-me-up of insulin it wants more. But on this diet you will not be getting an insulin rise after a night of drinking so you will not have such a problem with hangovers. WARNING: I do not condone ANYONE to abuse alcohol. I am just stating this to spread the knowledge.
    Last edited by Botch; 08-15-2008 at 08:09 PM.
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    Very important not to get in too much alcohol. It can inhibit fat oxidation.
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    Ok thanks guys. I usually take it pretty easy anyway, It's just that if one of my buddies offers me a beer and I say "no thanks, I'm on a diet"...... well you can imagine what they say.
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    Hahaha yeah I get where you're coming from Esox. You may find that saying "no thanks" is enough and then you don't have to go into any sort of explanation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasRivera View Post
    Very important not to get in too much alcohol. It can inhibit fat oxidation.
    Yes this is true. If you're "dieting down" per se it is not a good idea to include alcohol in your diet. Just for the shear fact that you have extra calories to burn in the form of alcohol (which the body burns before anything else), so during that time your body is not burning fat. And to top it off you are giving your body calories that don't have any nutritional value when you are already in a caloric defecit. If you are going to eat the extra calories it might as well be from real food with some nutritional value.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esox Express View Post
    Ok thanks guys. I usually take it pretty easy anyway, It's just that if one of my buddies offers me a beer and I say "no thanks, I'm on a diet"...... well you can imagine what they say.
    Yeah I understand. Been in the same situation. If "No i'm dieting" doesn't work, I hit usually hit them with the "Not during training". And if they persist I invite them to do my routine in the gym.
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    Question:

    How do these macros look for the Anabolic Diet? I'm 6'4 265-270, depending on the day of the week. I'm looking to recomp/slowly lose fat.

    grams calories %total
    Total 3453
    Protein 344 1376 39.85%
    Carbs 40 160 4.63%
    Fiber 19 76 2.2%
    Sugar 15 60 1.74%
    Fat 213 1917 55.52%
    Sat 48 432 12.51%
    Poly 58 522 15.12%
    Mono 105 945 27.37%
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    what supps are ok to use while on this diet? specifically, can i effectively use a test-freeing supp, or are the pathways for its delivery messed with on this rollercoaster of a diet?
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    One thing about CKD is that it may slow thyroid a bit on the low carb days, so maybe use Venom or something with Tyrosine and Gugglestones to keep it running optimally. ALso get plenty of cardio and weight training in.
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    Midweek Carb Up:

    This morning I had 900mg ALA, followed by 3 scoops of waxy maize (120 carbs) followed by 3 bowls of Golden Grahms (350ish carbs), then went back to low carbing it. When I played volleyball tonight, I played amazing. Definitely could tell a difference from last week. I had plenty of energy. I was diving all over the court, my sets were on, and my hits were money. There were a couple other differences from last week:

    -2.5g PLCAR (ALCAR pregame last week, PLCAR works 100 times better)
    -1 serving Poseidon (not sure if that did anything)

    I may wait until Saturday this week for a carb up, seeing as I have to do some surveillance on Friday night.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    Question:

    How do these macros look for the Anabolic Diet? I'm 6'4 265-270, depending on the day of the week. I'm looking to recomp/slowly lose fat.

    grams calories %total
    Total 3453
    Protein 344 1376 39.85%
    Carbs 40 160 4.63%
    Fiber 19 76 2.2%
    Sugar 15 60 1.74%
    Fat 213 1917 55.52%
    Sat 48 432 12.51%
    Poly 58 522 15.12%
    Mono 105 945 27.37%
    This looks okay bro but I would really try keeping your protein at ~30% and fat at ~70% if you haven't tried this already. I would also try and get at least 10g more fiber per day. Your overall fat ratios and caloric intake look good though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manimalia View Post
    what supps are ok to use while on this diet? specifically, can i effectively use a test-freeing supp, or are the pathways for its delivery messed with on this rollercoaster of a diet?
    A test-freeing supplement such as divanil is great on this diet. The nature of this diet will raise your testosterone levels so you will have more to free up. The type of supplements I would avoid on this diet are just basically strong stimulants as this can put your hormones out of wack.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryingEmo View Post
    One thing about CKD is that it may slow thyroid a bit on the low carb days, so maybe use Venom or something with Tyrosine and Gugglestones to keep it running optimally. ALso get plenty of cardio and weight training in.
    Good point. Something for the thyroid can be very helpful on this diet. However, as a personal choice I would stay away from venom as it has some strong stimulants in there as well. Taking something for the thyroid throughout the week and Tyrosine Wednesday through Friday as part of a nootropic cocktail would be ideal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    Midweek Carb Up:

    This morning I had 900mg ALA, followed by 3 scoops of waxy maize (120 carbs) followed by 3 bowls of Golden Grahms (350ish carbs), then went back to low carbing it. When I played volleyball tonight, I played amazing. Definitely could tell a difference from last week. I had plenty of energy. I was diving all over the court, my sets were on, and my hits were money. There were a couple other differences from last week:

    -2.5g PLCAR (ALCAR pregame last week, PLCAR works 100 times better)
    -1 serving Poseidon (not sure if that did anything)

    I may wait until Saturday this week for a carb up, seeing as I have to do some surveillance on Friday night.
    Good update! I'm glad that this protocol is working for you. I also like to take carnitines throughout the week on this diet and I feel like they do a great deal for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Botch View Post
    Good update! I'm glad that this protocol is working for you. I also like to take carnitines throughout the week on this diet and I feel like they do a great deal for me.
    Yeah, PLCAR is a wondersupp. No other non-hormonal supplement is in the same ballpark in my eyes. I'm trying to conserve it as suppliers are saying it may be hard to come by in the future, so I'm only using it before I play sports and using ALCAR the rest of the time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Botch View Post
    This looks okay bro but I would really try keeping your protein at ~30% and fat at ~70% if you haven't tried this already. I would also try and get at least 10g more fiber per day. Your overall fat ratios and caloric intake look good though.
    Sounds good. Alot have people have been saying to try and get proteins from leaner meat sources, and fats from cleaner sources such as fish oil, peanut butter, and EVOO. Right now I've been getting about 70% of my fats from meat and eggs products. Should I try and integrate a higher % of good fats and lean protein into my diet?
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    I'd say eggs are "good fats."


    Also, so are cheeses, they contain high amounts of CLA.


    Add in fish oils with cheese, eggs, and maybe some olive oil and you're set.
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    Salmon is so delicious though.

    Lots of EFA's, and protein = Anabolic Diet food of the century award.
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    How do you feel about fatty chicken, steak and pork?
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    How do you feel about fatty chicken, steak and pork?
    I feel great about that . Quite tastey, too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Botch View Post
    I feel great about that . Quite tastey, too.

    Me too....but do you think it matters if you get your fat from those sources vs from "cleaner" sources?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Botch View Post
    I feel great about that . Quite tastey, too.

    I feel great.... about... you.
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    eh, botch. thanks for the answer on that question. i'm only on day 2 of this thing. gonna do my adapting at the 10 day level. WHOO! everything is in place. i took care of training first. set up diet next. now supplementation is set. it's on. might even log all this.
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    I'm about to go to the grocery store and then go do a depletion workout. I need food ideas! Here's what I've got planned ( I know I should have planned out more)

    -2 loaf White bread
    - 2-3 box sugary cereals!
    -1 tub gatorade powder
    - big jug soda, juice etc
    - 10-12 cups white rice
    - 2 # white pasta

    I'll eat all of this within the carb period. Additions appreciated!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugger View Post
    I'm about to go to the grocery store and then go do a depletion workout. I need food ideas! Here's what I've got planned ( I know I should have planned out more)

    -2 loaf White bread
    - 2-3 box sugary cereals!
    -1 tub gatorade powder
    - big jug soda, juice etc
    - 10-12 cups white rice
    - 2 # white pasta

    I'll eat all of this within the carb period. Additions appreciated!
    DAYUM, SON!!!!! i think you got them carbs covered. i was gonna hit up

    200 carbs gatorade powder, 200g carbs white rice, and the rest would be in assorted amounts of white/sweet potato mash, brown rice, mixed veggies/corn.

    but man, you're all about them simple carbs. i'll likely just use my simples after depletion on fridays. that's where the 200g carbs gatorade comes in. and then two meals following will have about 3 cups white rice in each. the next day'll be more complex carbs.

    my training is a three day split, a slightly altered version of "westside for skinny bastards" (the difference being that friday is not just an upper body repetition workout. it's a full body (threw in 3x40 weighted lunges and quad/ham curl superset of 2x15). and the reps are upped a few on some exercises).

    this sound ok to y'all? i hope that this works out. it should. from reading up on smarter peoples' outlooks on this stuff, this seems to be a good protocol, diet/training-wise. there is one thing i am REALLY unsure of, though. and that is CARDIO. i planned to walk three days a week for an hour briskly. what do you all think of that? or should i indeed do a bit of running? i know the goal is to be glycogen-depleted. but just how fast will the occur with running? see, i don't quite know how fast it will occur if i lift AND run. is it necessary?
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    Me too....but do you think it matters if you get your fat from those sources vs from "cleaner" sources?
    As long as you're getting a good portion of your fats from other sources as well I don't see why you can't have a steak or two a day. I have had no problems doing this in the past. However, this will vary from individual to individual. If you already have any kind of heart condition I would recommend limiting the red meat (or maybe this isn't the diet for you). But otherwise, eating red meat always seems to give me a nice energy boost. Animal fat is all fair game on this diet. It is when you eat these fats in the presence of carbs that the saturated fat becomes more of a problem (turns into steric acid). Just make sure your getting at least 1g of EPA/DHA per day and are eating plenty of EVOO with your shakes inbetween meals and you should be good to go.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryingEmo View Post
    I feel great.... about... you.
    Are you coming onto me? Because I might have to give you one of these .
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manimalia View Post
    eh, botch. thanks for the answer on that question. i'm only on day 2 of this thing. gonna do my adapting at the 10 day level. WHOO! everything is in place. i took care of training first. set up diet next. now supplementation is set. it's on. might even log all this.
    Good to hear bro! Definately keep us updated if you don't decide to log. I never went with the whole 12 day induction phase and just kept it to a week. It would have been better had I done the 12 day induction but I went from a diet of 500+g CHO's per day straight into this and I was dying for some fuggin carbs after the first week. It is all about what you are used to. For instance, now that I have just come off of this diet I find it VERY hard to eat large amounts of carbs (or even a relatively small amount) on a day to day basis. I feel like just eating a high fat/high protein meal instead like I've been doing for so long. It gets easier though, I promise!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugger View Post
    I'm about to go to the grocery store and then go do a depletion workout. I need food ideas! Here's what I've got planned ( I know I should have planned out more)

    -2 loaf White bread
    - 2-3 box sugary cereals!
    -1 tub gatorade powder
    - big jug soda, juice etc
    - 10-12 cups white rice
    - 2 # white pasta

    I'll eat all of this within the carb period. Additions appreciated!
    That looks pretty delicious to me. Something that I always craved during the carb up was pizza so I would make a low fat version myself izza:. Other than what you have listed, you're just gonna need a lot of protein to go with those carbs but I'm sure you've got that covered!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Botch View Post
    Good to hear bro! Definately keep us updated if you don't decide to log. I never went with the whole 12 day induction phase and just kept it to a week. It would have been better had I done the 12 day induction but I went from a diet of 500+g CHO's per day straight into this and I was dying for some fuggin carbs after the first week. It is all about what you are used to. For instance, now that I have just come off of this diet I find it VERY hard to eat large amounts of carbs (or even a relatively small amount) on a day to day basis. I feel like just eating a high fat/high protein meal instead like I've been doing for so long. It gets easier though, I promise!
    yeah, i found that i did adjust well to them fats. but the problem was that i knew dlck about carbups. i wasn't taking in enough of them, and they weren't the right kinds/times. but this time, i read up from smarter people who have had success (including you, bud!) and i think i might get some good from this thing. meaning, i won't lose fat AND muscle! heh!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manimalia View Post
    DAYUM, SON!!!!! i think you got them carbs covered. i was gonna hit up

    200 carbs gatorade powder, 200g carbs white rice, and the rest would be in assorted amounts of white/sweet potato mash, brown rice, mixed veggies/corn.

    but man, you're all about them simple carbs. i'll likely just use my simples after depletion on fridays. that's where the 200g carbs gatorade comes in. and then two meals following will have about 3 cups white rice in each. the next day'll be more complex carbs.

    my training is a three day split, a slightly altered version of "westside for skinny bastards" (the difference being that friday is not just an upper body repetition workout. it's a full body (threw in 3x40 weighted lunges and quad/ham curl superset of 2x15). and the reps are upped a few on some exercises).

    this sound ok to y'all? i hope that this works out. it should. from reading up on smarter peoples' outlooks on this stuff, this seems to be a good protocol, diet/training-wise. there is one thing i am REALLY unsure of, though. and that is CARDIO. i planned to walk three days a week for an hour briskly. what do you all think of that? or should i indeed do a bit of running? i know the goal is to be glycogen-depleted. but just how fast will the occur with running? see, i don't quite know how fast it will occur if i lift AND run. is it necessary?
    Hey dude it looks like you've done your homework. I think you're really going to like this diet since you have the depletion workout incorporated and everything else looks good.
    Cardio is something that could be debated forever. I personally don't do it on this diet and like to save my glycogen stores for lifting. I've definately been an avid cardio goer in the past and on this diet I have run into problems by doing HIIT cardio 3x per week. It would leave a burning sensation in my legs just walking for the rest of the week. And my lowerbody workouts would suffer from it. But if you're a fan of cardio then more power to you. If I were to do cardio I would go with the brisk walk 3x per week on this diet rather than running which will surely be tapping into your glycogen stores.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Botch View Post
    Hey dude it looks like you've done your homework. I think you're really going to like this diet since you have the depletion workout incorporated and everything else looks good.
    Cardio is something that could be debated forever. I personally don't do it on this diet and like to save my glycogen stores for lifting. I've definately been an avid cardio goer in the past and on this diet I have run into problems by doing HIIT cardio 3x per week. It would leave a burning sensation in my legs just walking for the rest of the week. And my lowerbody workouts would suffer from it. But if you're a fan of cardio then more power to you. If I were to do cardio I would go with the brisk walk 3x per week on this diet rather than running which will surely be tapping into your glycogen stores.
    yeah, i ran some when i did this diet previously, and i remember that i got burnt out and my lifts did suffer. that and the lack of good carb-up probably did me in. you know what? i'm gonna go ahead and just do my 'brisk-walks.' i go to a nice walking trail by my house and just walk like them 40-year-old women, all fast-like, although i don't do that weird stuff with my arms, though. thanks againx10 botch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manimalia View Post
    yeah, i found that i did adjust well to them fats. but the problem was that i knew dlck about carbups. i wasn't taking in enough of them, and they weren't the right kinds/times. but this time, i read up from smarter people who have had success (including you, bud!) and i think i might get some good from this thing. meaning, i won't lose fat AND muscle! heh!
    Yeah tell me about it! The carb up portion of this diet is misunderstood by a lot of people. I have seen many claims that the diet doesn't work for people but they never really get the diet and training in order to begin with, so no wonder!
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    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Botch again
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manimalia View Post
    yeah, i ran some when i did this diet previously, and i remember that i got burnt out and my lifts did suffer. that and the lack of good carb-up probably did me in. you know what? i'm gonna go ahead and just do my 'brisk-walks.' i go to a nice walking trail by my house and just walk like them 40-year-old women, all fast-like, although i don't do that weird stuff with my arms, though. thanks againx10 botch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    For sure man, it's all about calories in = calories out. If you just adjust your caloric intake accordingly then there is no need for cardio. And you might as well save that intensity for the depletion workout because you're sure as hell gonna need it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Botch View Post
    Something that I always craved during the carb up was pizza so I would make a low fat version myself izza:.
    I literally just made a **** TON of home-made pizza dough at my grandparents, for tomorrow. I got like 12 pizzas worth, which i will freeze and use 1-2 every sat. ALso made some fresh pizza/marinara sauce.. Can't wait...lol

    For ME, i need to keep protein high.. My strength continues to climb, and i have been steady dropping BF.

    At first i had to play around with the ratios of Pro/fat, i tried keeping fats at 60-70% but strength was suffering, and weight loss was pretty stagnant.

    When protein got upped, total cals stayed the same, then fat started coming off, while strength slowly but surely climbed. I have been taking it nice and slow though.

    Normally at this point, on a carb based "calorie restricted" diet, i feel like TOTAL ****.. I drag ass in the gym, strength goes in the toilet, and i feel like hell all day. Right now, i feel GREAT.

    Like botch said, it is very individual. Play around with your macros, food selection, etc.
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    Hey bro I was wondering when you were going to make an appearance around here!
    Man, all this pizza talk is making me hungry. Luckily there is a pizza joint less than a block from my apartment. Damnit, why do they have to make it so easy for me to cheat?!?!
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    So let's take a vote. Who thinks I should try and keep my cals the same during carb up and who thinks I should just scarf? I'm trying to cut fyi
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    Quote Originally Posted by Botch View Post
    Hey bro I was wondering when you were going to make an appearance around here!
    Man, all this pizza talk is making me hungry. Luckily there is a pizza joint less than a block from my apartment. Damnit, why do they have to make it so easy for me to cheat?!?!
    haha.. i'd love to see everyone throw up pics of their carb up meals, to see some of the wacky **** we all eat after a week of low carbin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rugger View Post
    So let's take a vote. Who thinks I should try and keep my cals the same during carb up and who thinks I should just scarf? I'm trying to cut fyi
    I take in prob 3x my cals on carb ups. Last saturday, my breakfast alone was about 1500 cals if i recall.

    I wouldn't say just "scarf" but either do a protocol similar to the "duchane" one, or slam the carbs heavy, paying attention to the fats.

    I had been doing the duchane way, but the last couple of months, i just go VERY heavy on the carbs, and keep fat low.
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