CK/Anabolic Diet mega thread

[RobInKuwait]

Midweek Carb Up:

This morning I had 900mg ALA, followed by 3 scoops of waxy maize (120 carbs) followed by 3 bowls of Golden Grahms (350ish carbs), then went back to low carbing it. When I played volleyball tonight, I played amazing. Definitely could tell a difference from last week. I had plenty of energy. I was diving all over the court, my sets were on, and my hits were money. There were a couple other differences from last week:

-2.5g PLCAR (ALCAR pregame last week, PLCAR works 100 times better)
-1 serving Poseidon (not sure if that did anything)

I may wait until Saturday this week for a carb up, seeing as I have to do some surveillance on Friday night.

 

[Botch]

Question:

How do these macros look for the Anabolic Diet? I'm 6'4 265-270, depending on the day of the week. I'm looking to recomp/slowly lose fat.

grams calories %total
Total 3453
Protein 344 1376 39.85%
Carbs 40 160 4.63%
Fiber 19 76 2.2%
Sugar 15 60 1.74%
Fat 213 1917 55.52%
Sat 48 432 12.51%
Poly 58 522 15.12%
Mono 105 945 27.37%

This looks okay bro but I would really try keeping your protein at ~30% and fat at ~70% if you haven't tried this already. I would also try and get at least 10g more fiber per day. Your overall fat ratios and caloric intake look good though.

 

[Botch]

what supps are ok to use while on this diet? specifically, can i effectively use a test-freeing supp, or are the pathways for its delivery messed with on this rollercoaster of a diet?

A test-freeing supplement such as divanil is great on this diet. The nature of this diet will raise your testosterone levels so you will have more to free up. The type of supplements I would avoid on this diet are just basically strong stimulants as this can put your hormones out of wack.

 

[Botch]

One thing about CKD is that it may slow thyroid a bit on the low carb days, so maybe use Venom or something with Tyrosine and Gugglestones to keep it running optimally. ALso get plenty of cardio and weight training in.

Good point. Something for the thyroid can be very helpful on this diet. However, as a personal choice I would stay away from venom as it has some strong stimulants in there as well. Taking something for the thyroid throughout the week and Tyrosine Wednesday through Friday as part of a nootropic cocktail would be ideal.

 

[Botch]

Midweek Carb Up:

This morning I had 900mg ALA, followed by 3 scoops of waxy maize (120 carbs) followed by 3 bowls of Golden Grahms (350ish carbs), then went back to low carbing it. When I played volleyball tonight, I played amazing. Definitely could tell a difference from last week. I had plenty of energy. I was diving all over the court, my sets were on, and my hits were money. There were a couple other differences from last week:

-2.5g PLCAR (ALCAR pregame last week, PLCAR works 100 times better)
-1 serving Poseidon (not sure if that did anything)

I may wait until Saturday this week for a carb up, seeing as I have to do some surveillance on Friday night.

Good update! I'm glad that this protocol is working for you. I also like to take carnitines throughout the week on this diet and I feel like they do a great deal for me.

 

[RobInKuwait]

Good update! I'm glad that this protocol is working for you. I also like to take carnitines throughout the week on this diet and I feel like they do a great deal for me.

Yeah, PLCAR is a wondersupp. No other non-hormonal supplement is in the same ballpark in my eyes. I'm trying to conserve it as suppliers are saying it may be hard to come by in the future, so I'm only using it before I play sports and using ALCAR the rest of the time.

 

[RobInKuwait]

This looks okay bro but I would really try keeping your protein at ~30% and fat at ~70% if you haven't tried this already. I would also try and get at least 10g more fiber per day. Your overall fat ratios and caloric intake look good though.

Sounds good. Alot have people have been saying to try and get proteins from leaner meat sources, and fats from cleaner sources such as fish oil, peanut butter, and EVOO. Right now I've been getting about 70% of my fats from meat and eggs products. Should I try and integrate a higher % of good fats and lean protein into my diet?

 

[CryingEmo]

I'd say eggs are "good fats."


Also, so are cheeses, they contain high amounts of CLA.


Add in fish oils with cheese, eggs, and maybe some olive oil and you're set.

 

[CryingEmo]

Salmon is so delicious though.

Lots of EFA's, and protein = Anabolic Diet food of the century award.

 

[RobInKuwait]

How do you feel about fatty chicken, steak and pork?

 

[Botch]

How do you feel about fatty chicken, steak and pork?

I feel great about that :thumbsup:. Quite tastey, too.

 

[RobInKuwait]

I feel great about that :thumbsup:. Quite tastey, too.

Me too....but do you think it matters if you get your fat from those sources vs from "cleaner" sources?

 

[CryingEmo]

I feel great about that :thumbsup:. Quite tastey, too.

I feel great.... about... you. :trout:

 

[Manimalia]

eh, botch. thanks for the answer on that question. i'm only on day 2 of this thing. gonna do my adapting at the 10 day level. WHOO! everything is in place. i took care of training first. set up diet next. now supplementation is set. it's on. might even log all this.

 

[Rugger]

I'm about to go to the grocery store and then go do a depletion workout. I need food ideas! Here's what I've got planned ( I know I should have planned out more)

-2 loaf White bread
- 2-3 box sugary cereals!
-1 tub gatorade powder
- big jug soda, juice etc
- 10-12 cups white rice
- 2 # white pasta

I'll eat all of this within the carb period. Additions appreciated!

 

[Manimalia]

I'm about to go to the grocery store and then go do a depletion workout. I need food ideas! Here's what I've got planned ( I know I should have planned out more)

-2 loaf White bread
- 2-3 box sugary cereals!
-1 tub gatorade powder
- big jug soda, juice etc
- 10-12 cups white rice
- 2 # white pasta

I'll eat all of this within the carb period. Additions appreciated!

DAYUM, SON!!!!! i think you got them carbs covered. i was gonna hit up

200 carbs gatorade powder, 200g carbs white rice, and the rest would be in assorted amounts of white/sweet potato mash, brown rice, mixed veggies/corn.

but man, you're all about them simple carbs. i'll likely just use my simples after depletion on fridays. that's where the 200g carbs gatorade comes in. and then two meals following will have about 3 cups white rice in each. the next day'll be more complex carbs.

my training is a three day split, a slightly altered version of "westside for skinny bastards" (the difference being that friday is not just an upper body repetition workout. it's a full body (threw in 3x40 weighted lunges and quad/ham curl superset of 2x15). and the reps are upped a few on some exercises).

this sound ok to y'all? i hope that this works out. it should. from reading up on smarter peoples' outlooks on this stuff, this seems to be a good protocol, diet/training-wise. there is one thing i am REALLY unsure of, though. and that is CARDIO. i planned to walk three days a week for an hour briskly. what do you all think of that? or should i indeed do a bit of running? i know the goal is to be glycogen-depleted. but just how fast will the occur with running? see, i don't quite know how fast it will occur if i lift AND run. is it necessary?

 

[Botch]

Me too....but do you think it matters if you get your fat from those sources vs from "cleaner" sources?

As long as you're getting a good portion of your fats from other sources as well I don't see why you can't have a steak or two a day. I have had no problems doing this in the past. However, this will vary from individual to individual. If you already have any kind of heart condition I would recommend limiting the red meat (or maybe this isn't the diet for you). But otherwise, eating red meat always seems to give me a nice energy boost. Animal fat is all fair game on this diet. It is when you eat these fats in the presence of carbs that the saturated fat becomes more of a problem (turns into steric acid). Just make sure your getting at least 1g of EPA/DHA per day and are eating plenty of EVOO with your shakes inbetween meals and you should be good to go.

 

[Botch]

I feel great.... about... you. :trout:

Are you coming onto me? Because I might have to give you one of these :nutkick:.

 

[Botch]

eh, botch. thanks for the answer on that question. i'm only on day 2 of this thing. gonna do my adapting at the 10 day level. WHOO! everything is in place. i took care of training first. set up diet next. now supplementation is set. it's on. might even log all this.

Good to hear bro! Definately keep us updated if you don't decide to log. I never went with the whole 12 day induction phase and just kept it to a week. It would have been better had I done the 12 day induction but I went from a diet of 500+g CHO's per day straight into this and I was dying for some fuggin carbs after the first week. It is all about what you are used to. For instance, now that I have just come off of this diet I find it VERY hard to eat large amounts of carbs (or even a relatively small amount) on a day to day basis. I feel like just eating a high fat/high protein meal instead like I've been doing for so long. It gets easier though, I promise!

 

[Botch]

I'm about to go to the grocery store and then go do a depletion workout. I need food ideas! Here's what I've got planned ( I know I should have planned out more)

-2 loaf White bread
- 2-3 box sugary cereals!
-1 tub gatorade powder
- big jug soda, juice etc
- 10-12 cups white rice
- 2 # white pasta

I'll eat all of this within the carb period. Additions appreciated!

That looks pretty delicious to me. Something that I always craved during the carb up was pizza so I would make a low fat version myself izza:. Other than what you have listed, you're just gonna need a lot of protein to go with those carbs but I'm sure you've got that covered!

 

[Manimalia]

Good to hear bro! Definately keep us updated if you don't decide to log. I never went with the whole 12 day induction phase and just kept it to a week. It would have been better had I done the 12 day induction but I went from a diet of 500+g CHO's per day straight into this and I was dying for some fuggin carbs after the first week. It is all about what you are used to. For instance, now that I have just come off of this diet I find it VERY hard to eat large amounts of carbs (or even a relatively small amount) on a day to day basis. I feel like just eating a high fat/high protein meal instead like I've been doing for so long. It gets easier though, I promise!

yeah, i found that i did adjust well to them fats. but the problem was that i knew dlck about carbups. i wasn't taking in enough of them, and they weren't the right kinds/times. but this time, i read up from smarter people who have had success (including you, bud!) and i think i might get some good from this thing. meaning, i won't lose fat AND muscle! heh!

 

[Botch]

DAYUM, SON!!!!! i think you got them carbs covered. i was gonna hit up

200 carbs gatorade powder, 200g carbs white rice, and the rest would be in assorted amounts of white/sweet potato mash, brown rice, mixed veggies/corn.

but man, you're all about them simple carbs. i'll likely just use my simples after depletion on fridays. that's where the 200g carbs gatorade comes in. and then two meals following will have about 3 cups white rice in each. the next day'll be more complex carbs.

my training is a three day split, a slightly altered version of "westside for skinny bastards" (the difference being that friday is not just an upper body repetition workout. it's a full body (threw in 3x40 weighted lunges and quad/ham curl superset of 2x15). and the reps are upped a few on some exercises).

this sound ok to y'all? i hope that this works out. it should. from reading up on smarter peoples' outlooks on this stuff, this seems to be a good protocol, diet/training-wise. there is one thing i am REALLY unsure of, though. and that is CARDIO. i planned to walk three days a week for an hour briskly. what do you all think of that? or should i indeed do a bit of running? i know the goal is to be glycogen-depleted. but just how fast will the occur with running? see, i don't quite know how fast it will occur if i lift AND run. is it necessary?

Hey dude it looks like you've done your homework. I think you're really going to like this diet since you have the depletion workout incorporated and everything else looks good.
Cardio is something that could be debated forever. I personally don't do it on this diet and like to save my glycogen stores for lifting. I've definately been an avid cardio goer in the past and on this diet I have run into problems by doing HIIT cardio 3x per week. It would leave a burning sensation in my legs just walking for the rest of the week. And my lowerbody workouts would suffer from it. But if you're a fan of cardio then more power to you. If I were to do cardio I would go with the brisk walk 3x per week on this diet rather than running which will surely be tapping into your glycogen stores.

 

[Manimalia]

Hey dude it looks like you've done your homework. I think you're really going to like this diet since you have the depletion workout incorporated and everything else looks good.
Cardio is something that could be debated forever. I personally don't do it on this diet and like to save my glycogen stores for lifting. I've definately been an avid cardio goer in the past and on this diet I have run into problems by doing HIIT cardio 3x per week. It would leave a burning sensation in my legs just walking for the rest of the week. And my lowerbody workouts would suffer from it. But if you're a fan of cardio then more power to you. If I were to do cardio I would go with the brisk walk 3x per week on this diet rather than running which will surely be tapping into your glycogen stores.

yeah, i ran some when i did this diet previously, and i remember that i got burnt out and my lifts did suffer. that and the lack of good carb-up probably did me in. you know what? i'm gonna go ahead and just do my 'brisk-walks.' i go to a nice walking trail by my house and just walk like them 40-year-old women, all fast-like, although i don't do that weird stuff with my arms, though. thanks againx10 botch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Botch]

yeah, i found that i did adjust well to them fats. but the problem was that i knew dlck about carbups. i wasn't taking in enough of them, and they weren't the right kinds/times. but this time, i read up from smarter people who have had success (including you, bud!) and i think i might get some good from this thing. meaning, i won't lose fat AND muscle! heh!

Yeah tell me about it! The carb up portion of this diet is misunderstood by a lot of people. I have seen many claims that the diet doesn't work for people but they never really get the diet and training in order to begin with, so no wonder!

 

[Manimalia]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Botch again

 

[Botch]

yeah, i ran some when i did this diet previously, and i remember that i got burnt out and my lifts did suffer. that and the lack of good carb-up probably did me in. you know what? i'm gonna go ahead and just do my 'brisk-walks.' i go to a nice walking trail by my house and just walk like them 40-year-old women, all fast-like, although i don't do that weird stuff with my arms, though. thanks againx10 botch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For sure man, it's all about calories in = calories out. If you just adjust your caloric intake accordingly then there is no need for cardio. And you might as well save that intensity for the depletion workout because you're sure as hell gonna need it!

 

[Frank Reynolds]

Something that I always craved during the carb up was pizza so I would make a low fat version myself izza:.

I literally just made a **** TON of home-made pizza dough at my grandparents, for tomorrow. I got like 12 pizzas worth, which i will freeze and use 1-2 every sat. ALso made some fresh pizza/marinara sauce.. Can't wait...lol

For ME, i need to keep protein high.. My strength continues to climb, and i have been steady dropping BF.

At first i had to play around with the ratios of Pro/fat, i tried keeping fats at 60-70% but strength was suffering, and weight loss was pretty stagnant.

When protein got upped, total cals stayed the same, then fat started coming off, while strength slowly but surely climbed. I have been taking it nice and slow though.

Normally at this point, on a carb based "calorie restricted" diet, i feel like TOTAL ****.. I drag ass in the gym, strength goes in the toilet, and i feel like hell all day. Right now, i feel GREAT.

Like botch said, it is very individual. Play around with your macros, food selection, etc.

 

[Botch]

Hey bro I was wondering when you were going to make an appearance around here!
Man, all this pizza talk is making me hungry. Luckily there is a pizza joint less than a block from my apartment. Damnit, why do they have to make it so easy for me to cheat?!?!

 

[Rugger]

So let's take a vote. Who thinks I should try and keep my cals the same during carb up and who thinks I should just scarf? I'm trying to cut fyi

 

[Frank Reynolds]

Hey bro I was wondering when you were going to make an appearance around here!
Man, all this pizza talk is making me hungry. Luckily there is a pizza joint less than a block from my apartment. Damnit, why do they have to make it so easy for me to cheat?!?!

haha.. i'd love to see everyone throw up pics of their carb up meals, to see some of the wacky **** we all eat after a week of low carbin.

So let's take a vote. Who thinks I should try and keep my cals the same during carb up and who thinks I should just scarf? I'm trying to cut fyi

I take in prob 3x my cals on carb ups. Last saturday, my breakfast alone was about 1500 cals if i recall.

I wouldn't say just "scarf" but either do a protocol similar to the "duchane" one, or slam the carbs heavy, paying attention to the fats.

I had been doing the duchane way, but the last couple of months, i just go VERY heavy on the carbs, and keep fat low.

 

[Omen]

I'm doing CKD with IF, question is, I limit my carbs to 20-30 grams a day, do they have to be from "good sources" fruits/vegetables?

I only eat meat and eggs as I hate vegetables, so can I add some crackers or some junk as long as it doesn't exceed 20-30 grams a day?

 

[Rugger]

I'm also at about 20g a day. My carbs come from string cheese, peanut butter, eggs and a bratwurst

 

[Omen]

I'm also at about 20g a day. My carbs come from string cheese, peanut butter, eggs and a bratwurst

Can they come from junk as long they don't exceed 20g?

I don't see a difference.

 

[Manimalia]

So let's take a vote. Who thinks I should try and keep my cals the same during carb up and who thinks I should just scarf? I'm trying to cut fyi

i likely know even less about this diet than you do, but i'd suggest you go ahead and look to some stats for what you should be speculatively consuming. and then adjust from there after a few weeks or a month. cause' there is that "fat spillover" when you consume too many carbs. but not enough will stifle progress and therefore keep you from losing that fat/gaining.

i'm going for 900g carbs, as that was the amount suggested through "the equation." i'll adjust from there after a few weeks if i need to.

 

[RobInKuwait]

As long as you're getting a good portion of your fats from other sources as well I don't see why you can't have a steak or two a day. I have had no problems doing this in the past. However, this will vary from individual to individual. If you already have any kind of heart condition I would recommend limiting the red meat (or maybe this isn't the diet for you). But otherwise, eating red meat always seems to give me a nice energy boost. Animal fat is all fair game on this diet. It is when you eat these fats in the presence of carbs that the saturated fat becomes more of a problem (turns into steric acid). Just make sure your getting at least 1g of EPA/DHA per day and are eating plenty of EVOO with your shakes inbetween meals and you should be good to go.

Thanks Botch. Appreciate all your help!

 

[Rugger]

I just drank 180g of liquid carbs. BARF!

 

[Botch]

So let's take a vote. Who thinks I should try and keep my cals the same during carb up and who thinks I should just scarf? I'm trying to cut fyi

I second the vote that you up the cals. Remember, this is more of a recomposition diet than an all out cut diet. Just watch the fat melt off while you retain all of your muscle or maybe even add a lil' bit.

 

[Botch]

I just drank 180g of liquid carbs. BARF!

BUWAHAHAHAHahhahahAHAHAH!!! It gets easier as the meals progress through the day, I swear! Just man up, and eat that shlt.

 

[Botch]

I'm doing CKD with IF, question is, I limit my carbs to 20-30 grams a day, do they have to be from "good sources" fruits/vegetables?

I only eat meat and eggs as I hate vegetables, so can I add some crackers or some junk as long as it doesn't exceed 20-30 grams a day?

Eat your veggies!!! They do more during this diet for you than you may think. For instance, they will help keep your stomach feeling okay (base/acidity wise) on top of all of the nutrients that you get from them. Also, they are a great source of fiber and it is recommended that you are taking in at least 30g per day on this diet. However, you can go ahead and still eat your 20g of junk carbs, just make sure you're getting some veggies in there too. Honestly, after being on this diet for a while I wouldn't even count the carbs that come from veggies. But still eat them even if you despise them.

 

[Botch]

i likely know even less about this diet than you do, but i'd suggest you go ahead and look to some stats for what you should be speculatively consuming. and then adjust from there after a few weeks or a month. cause' there is that "fat spillover" when you consume too many carbs. but not enough will stifle progress and therefore keep you from losing that fat/gaining.

i'm going for 900g carbs, as that was the amount suggested through "the equation." i'll adjust from there after a few weeks if i need to.

As long as you're cycling your macros correctly you would be surpised at the amount of carbs you would need to eat in order to achieve something like this. It is extremely difficult to get a "fat spillover" if your macros are on point...even if you are eating a ridiculous amount of carbs.

 

[Frank Reynolds]

What did you eat so far today BOTCH?

 

[Botch]

I'm not CKD'ing it right now. I got off of the CKD to do a bulking cycle 6 weeks ago which I just finished up. And WOW, my stomach did not like me introducing carbs as fast as I did. Luckily after 6 weeks it is beginning to even out. I think from going carb depleted at a relatively low body fat straight into my cycle with really almost no diet guideline helped me to gain some quality weight. I went from 166 lbs. (depleted) to 184 lbs. (not at all depleted) and still just about as lean as when I went into the cycle. IGF-1 injections during PCT are keeping me able to eat tons of carbs right now though. I also just started some gut health which will hopefully take care of the rest.

 

[bigironkiller]

ok, just finished reading this whole thread. have a question about training di i do 1 full body glycogen depletion/wk or more??so if i plan my carb load for fri/half saturday, i should workout on friday???what can i do throughout the week, or just concentrate on the diet??? also im gonna do the 36hr carb load using anabolic pump. try and get 900g within 1st 24hrs then 450g next 12hrs.

 

[Botch]

ok, just finished reading this whole thread. have a question about training di i do 1 full body glycogen depletion/wk or more??

You should be doing one full-body depletion workout per week with your carb up immediately following the workout.

so if i plan my carb load for fri/half saturday, i should workout on friday???

Yes, and your workout should be performed BEFORE you begin the carb load.

what can i do throughout the week, or just concentrate on the diet???

I'm not sure I get exactly what you mean. You should perform tension workouts on Mon, Tues, and maybe Wed. lifting at around 80% of your 1RM.

also im gonna do the 36hr carb load using anabolic pump. try and get 900g within 1st 24hrs then 450g next 12hrs.

I would leave the anabolic pump out of the carb up. Many people still use it while carbing up, but I challenge you to do a carb load with and without it and tell me what difference you find. I don't know your body weight but that seems like a small amount of carbs for the carb load. It is still a good place to start.

 

[bigironkiller]

well right now im 250 with a high estimate at 17%bf. from the meso article 900g carbs 1st 24hrs is right and 2nd 12hrs at 450g carbs is right too.

 

[Manimalia]

WHOO! what a terrible feeling! just drank me 130g carbs-worth of gatorade powder and then two scoops whey. i forgot that the first re-feed feels WEIRD. i'm a bit nauteous now. gon' go lay down now. meh.

 

[RobInKuwait]

WHOO! what a terrible feeling! just drank me 130g carbs-worth of gatorade powder and then two scoops whey. i forgot that the first re-feed feels WEIRD. i'm a bit nauteous now. gon' go lay down now. meh.

Don't forget to drink lots of water during your refeed! It'll make you feel better.

 

[bigironkiller]

really looking to kick up the fatloss due to herniated disk in lower back. ideally i would like to cut down to 195 over the rest of the year. what kinda of macros should i be trying to achieve while being 6'2 250.

just the bare bones, not including other staple supps:
fat 70%
protein 30%
fiber 35-50g/day

 

[Rugger]

I'd laike to add that alcohol amakes a great carbloadsss

 

[bigironkiller]

also, what would be the lowest caloric intake i could consume per day, being 6.2 250. if i lose some muscle, so be it. getting my weight down is key