The 6 foods that work.. 8 week trial (with pics)

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  1. Im tying to get the "feather" vastus lateralis too bro (maybe not the striated glute lol) and Im sure this will be only one of many many diet experiements I will attempt in my endeavors
    Suffer now.. and live like a champion later.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by runner_79 View Post
    It's the rate at which it enters the bloodstream. Ice cream etc exerts a higher insulin response compared to say broccoli and sweet potato
    So? If insulin is spiked faster and higher now, conversely it falls lower and faster as the sugar is processed. So you are theoretically storing more up front (its actually much more complicated than just insulin) but burning more as blood sugar levels fall. As opposed to a steadier and more linear release of insulin which will process the sugar over a longer period of time. As long as calories are equal in both examples, the net storage is the same. The problem that most people have is understanding that fat is CONTINUOUSLY being stored and burned. Simultaneously. Its NET storage at the end of the day, week, month, year, etc that give us the appearance of being leaner or fatter. Insulin is not the enemy. Its my opinion that the more time we can spend with elevated insulin levels while still burning bodyfat, the more lean mass we will hold. Insulin is a highly anabolic hormone.
    Sean Campbell
    Pro Natural Bodybuilder
    NRC Sponsored Athlete - Cabergolean.com
    •   
       


  3. Quote Originally Posted by bezoe View Post
    Correct.. hence the word "trial". I can only dream of being so lucky... Ive counted calories to a "t" while eating poptarts and became a fatass. I have to disagree with all carbs are created equal.. high GI stuff has too much impact on insulin, which, when chronically elevated can blunt receptors and cause insulin resistance, otherwise know as type II diabtes. And not saying you necessarily become "diabteic" but a person can have more propensity to store fat and reluctancy to burn it as fuel.
    If we are talking about the general, McDonalds eating fat-ass public.....YES, I would agree with you. But we are talking about athletes who's bodies are primed for optimum nutrient partitioning.

    Insulin sensitivity has much more to do with body composition than glycemic index of particular foods you eat. As you lean out, the body becomes MUCH more efficient at stabilizing blood sugar levels regardless of food choice.

    And dont discredit me as some kind of genetic freak that can eat anything he wants. I am naturally a giant fat-ass. If you showed you what I looked like 3 years ago, you wouldnt believe its the same person. If anyone is pre-dispositioned to store fat......I am.
    Sean Campbell
    Pro Natural Bodybuilder
    NRC Sponsored Athlete - Cabergolean.com

  4. There is truth to that bruz!
    If we can maintain a higher BG level while dieting, less muscle loss and more fat loss. Decrease in appetite and increase in fat burning. Keeping protein intake high'ish is best then to help with TEF
    ...::: Olympus Labs Representative :::...
    Crossfit - DEMIGOD -

  5. Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    So? If insulin is spiked faster and higher now, that means it falls equally lower and faster as the sugar is processed. So you are theoretically storing more up front (its actually much more complicated than just insulin) but burning more as blood sugar levels fall. As opposed to a steadier and more linear release of insulin which will process the sugar over a longer period of time. As long as calories are equal in both examples, the net storage is the same. The problem that most people have is understanding that fat is CONTINUOUSLY being stored and burned. Simultaneously. Its NET storage at the end of the day, week, month, year, etc that give us the appearance of being leaner or fatter. Insulin is not the enemy. Its my opinion that the more time we can spend with elevated insulin levels while still burning bodyfat, the more lean mass we will hold. Insulin is a highly anabolic hormone.
    Hyperinsulinemia is toxic. Youre obviously doing something right but your facts are a little convoluted.
    Suffer now.. and live like a champion later.
    •   
       


  6. Quote Originally Posted by bezoe

    Hyperinsulinemia is toxic. Youre obviously doing something right but your facts are a little convoluted.
    He is on the right track but loses the idea of simple v complex carbs
    Insulin is the mother of being anabolic. Keep insulin low, burn fat
    Make it high, store fat
    ...::: Olympus Labs Representative :::...
    Crossfit - DEMIGOD -

  7. Not only makes you store fat but causes peripheral neuropathy over time. I know it's anabolic but constant surges in blood levels are unhealthy. To be honest, Im a proponent of VERY low carb and HIGH fat diet. Thats what my body likes. This is only a trial and im surprised as sh*t that im not getting fat on all these carbs. And no i will not continue it forever.
    Suffer now.. and live like a champion later.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by bezoe View Post
    Not only makes you store fat but causes peripheral neuropathy over time. I know it's anabolic but constant surges in blood levels are unhealthy. To be honest, Im a proponent of VERY low carb and HIGH fat diet. Thats what my body likes. This is only a trial and im surprised as sh*t that im not getting fat on all these carbs. And no i will not continue it forever.
    Ive noticed this too, was low carb, high protein, mod-high fat, then switched over to low fat. Body comp was GREAT, but my joints were beat up, mood was horrible, constant blood sugar swings, and my liver values were so f'd up the lady thought I WAS on roids....Also, my White blood cell count was halved from the reading prior on the higher fat diet. Also, this past time after switching back to a higher fat diet my liver values were cut in half and my WBC went up a bit. Not where they were b4, but definitely not in the danger zone of being too low.
    RecoverBro ELITE

  9. Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    Ive noticed this too, was low carb, high protein, mod-high fat, then switched over to low fat. Body comp was GREAT, but my joints were beat up, mood was horrible, constant blood sugar swings, and my liver values were so f'd up the lady thought I WAS on roids....Also, my White blood cell count was halved from the reading prior on the higher fat diet. Also, this past time after switching back to a higher fat diet my liver values were cut in half and my WBC went up a bit. Not where they were b4, but definitely not in the danger zone of being too low.
    This corresponds exactly with all the new literature ive been reading. I like the glycogen storage and the full muscles with high carb but the bloat and noticible effects suck.. not to mention everything instrinsic you just stated about lipid profile and WBC count. I will likely only use this diet in the 6-8 weeks leading up to a contest. I will probably only continue it another week or two.
    Suffer now.. and live like a champion later.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by bezoe View Post
    Hyperinsulinemia is toxic. Youre obviously doing something right but your facts are a little convoluted.
    No, I think my facts are right on the money. You are referencing hyperinsulinemia which is condition prevalent in much of the general public.......who are NOT athletes......and are constantly eating more than they are using for fuel. People become desensitized to insulin only after they have packed on excessive bodyfat and they are very inactive. If you are in a calorie deficit and you are a glycogen-using/sparing athlete you dont have to worry about hyperinsulinemia.

    Quote Originally Posted by runner_79 View Post
    He is on the right track but loses the idea of simple v complex carbs
    Insulin is the mother of being anabolic. Keep insulin low, burn fat
    Make it high, store fat
    I have a very firm grasp on the idea of complex and simple carbs. However you are oversimplifying the fat burn/storage explanation. The issue is vastly more complex than most of the bro's at the local Golds are willing to dive into.

    Quote Originally Posted by bezoe View Post
    Not only makes you store fat but causes peripheral neuropathy over time. I know it's anabolic but constant surges in blood levels are unhealthy. To be honest, Im a proponent of VERY low carb and HIGH fat diet. Thats what my body likes. This is only a trial and im surprised as sh*t that im not getting fat on all these carbs. And no i will not continue it forever.
    An athlete that is acclimated to carbs will not experience "surges" in insulin from any normal sized meal. If we are talking about 30-50g of carbs in a given meal......it doesnt make a bean-hill worth of difference if those carbs come from pop rocks or oatmeal. The amount of sugar is relatively small.....and those that are accustomed to carbs will process both with very little insulin.

    Carbs are incredibly important to proper metabolism, especially for an athlete who uses glycogen storage day in and day out. Glucose is the fuel that drives the engine of cellular metabolism. Ketones will provide energy, but only in the absence of carbs because glucose is the body's preferred fuel source. Sure, without carbs, your body will use more (dietary) fat for fuel but it also is more likely to use protein (muscle) for fuel as well. Your body is starving for glucose though. This is probably the reason why you are so (over) carb sensitive. As you become more sensitive you store more bodyfat.....your metabolic rate slows. Adipsin starts rapidly turning carbs into bodyfat and that bodyfat is held onto due to an ever-decreasing metabolic rate. Metabolism is damaged by energy sparing mechanisms driven by other hormones like leptin (which are elevated in carb-starven athletes). Its a bad cycle driven by this fear that carbs are the enemy......especially those nasty "dirty" carbs. Because you starve your body of glucose you become better at storing fat (from overeating carbs) and worse at losing it.

    The body only needs a relatively small amount of fat to be balanced hormonally. Obviously a moderate amount of protein is needed for repair and maintenance of muscle tissue, but beyond that......FUEL that body. We are performance athletes! We need the high test. Give the body the fuel it desires.

    In all honesty, I think you have stumbled upon something that will change your training.....CARBS. If its working, dont go back. Keep fueling the fire. The cool thing is that once you have re-acclimated yourself to the carbs, you can start building that metabolism. Feed it a little more, and a little more. 10g increments every week and before you know it you'll be consuming many more calories than before while continuing to lose bodyfat.

    Ive been throwing gas on the fire (working on increasing carbs over time) for a while now.....and my "low" carb diet days start at over 300g per day.
    Sean Campbell
    Pro Natural Bodybuilder
    NRC Sponsored Athlete - Cabergolean.com

  11. ^ This, I can second these statements. Well individualization is a key factor here, majority of points Aus states are correct.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    No, I think my facts are right on the money. You are referencing hyperinsulinemia which is condition prevalent in much of the general public.......who are NOT athletes......and are constantly eating more than they are using for fuel. People become desensitized to insulin only after they have packed on excessive bodyfat and they are very inactive. If you are in a calorie deficit and you are a glycogen-using/sparing athlete you dont have to worry about hyperinsulinemia.



    I have a very firm grasp on the idea of complex and simple carbs. However you are oversimplifying the fat burn/storage explanation. The issue is vastly more complex than most of the bro's at the local Golds are willing to dive into.



    An athlete that is acclimated to carbs will not experience "surges" in insulin from any normal sized meal. If we are talking about 30-50g of carbs in a given meal......it doesnt make a bean-hill worth of difference if those carbs come from pop rocks or oatmeal. The amount of sugar is relatively small.....and those that are accustomed to carbs will process both with very little insulin.

    Carbs are incredibly important to proper metabolism, especially for an athlete who uses glycogen storage day in and day out. Glucose is the fuel that drives the engine of cellular metabolism. Ketones will provide energy, but only in the absence of carbs because glucose is the body's preferred fuel source. Sure, without carbs, your body will use more (dietary) fat for fuel but it also is more likely to use protein (muscle) for fuel as well. Your body is starving for glucose though. This is probably the reason why you are so (over) carb sensitive. As you become more sensitive you store more bodyfat.....your metabolic rate slows. Adipsin starts rapidly turning carbs into bodyfat and that bodyfat is held onto due to an ever-decreasing metabolic rate. Metabolism is damaged by energy sparing mechanisms driven by other hormones like leptin (which are elevated in carb-starven athletes). Its a bad cycle driven by this fear that carbs are the enemy......especially those nasty "dirty" carbs. Because you starve your body of glucose you become better at storing fat (from overeating carbs) and worse at losing it.

    The body only needs a relatively small amount of fat to be balanced hormonally. Obviously a moderate amount of protein is needed for repair and maintenance of muscle tissue, but beyond that......FUEL that body. We are performance athletes! We need the high test. Give the body the fuel it desires.

    In all honesty, I think you have stumbled upon something that will change your training.....CARBS. If its working, dont go back. Keep fueling the fire. The cool thing is that once you have re-acclimated yourself to the carbs, you can start building that metabolism. Feed it a little more, and a little more. 10g increments every week and before you know it you'll be consuming many more calories than before while continuing to lose bodyfat.

    Ive been throwing gas on the fire (working on increasing carbs over time) for a while now.....and my "low" carb diet days start at over 300g per day.
    Ill consider it but I would wanna do some bloodwork for lipid assay, immunocellular levels, liver values, FBG and possibly hormone levels. You eat grains too? I dont know, I just feel so much better on high fat.. constant energy. I dont rely on ketones, i rely on carbs- but very few of them because im not an endurance athelete constantly using glycogen. And I have to cycle them, with refeeds every 3 days. Yea carbs are a primary source of energy but you always have gluconeogenesis. As I said before, I ate high carbs for 2 years before (from various sources like you recommend) and put on quite a bit of fat. I have several natural bodybuilder friends who all do low carb. I think there is no end all be all approach to this, otherwise everybody would be aware of it. Some people fare better with carbs, some dont.
    Suffer now.. and live like a champion later.

  13. Its a note a one size fits all...
    Certain diets can be carb dense. Athletes who need the carbs and actually utilize them, eat them like runners. I believe bb'rers get better results on a CKD and results show that
    ...::: Olympus Labs Representative :::...
    Crossfit - DEMIGOD -

  14. Quote Originally Posted by runner_79 View Post
    Its a note a one size fits all...
    Certain diets can be carb dense. Athletes who need the carbs and actually utilize them, eat them like runners. I believe bb'rers get better results on a CKD and results show that
    I'm with this. When I was fighting, I went through an insane amount of carbs daily (800-1000g/day), but I maybe eat 150g now that I mainly just lift and occasionally train. While lifting does burn a lot of calories, it doesn't demand nearly as much glucose as endurance-type training.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  15. I'm just adopting your views rodja lol
    But it is true. If you need them, physically, eat em'

    Most ppl can operate on ketone bodies but have a refeed once a week
    ...::: Olympus Labs Representative :::...
    Crossfit - DEMIGOD -

  16. Quote Originally Posted by bezoe View Post
    Ill consider it but I would wanna do some bloodwork for lipid assay, immunocellular levels, liver values, FBG and possibly hormone levels. You eat grains too? I dont know, I just feel so much better on high fat.. constant energy. I dont rely on ketones, i rely on carbs- but very few of them because im not an endurance athelete constantly using glycogen. And I have to cycle them, with refeeds every 3 days. Yea carbs are a primary source of energy but you always have gluconeogenesis. As I said before, I ate high carbs for 2 years before (from various sources like you recommend) and put on quite a bit of fat. I have several natural bodybuilder friends who all do low carb. I think there is no end all be all approach to this, otherwise everybody would be aware of it. Some people fare better with carbs, some dont.
    No there isnt a be-all approach. And yes, some do better with higher ratios of fat. Sure. I wont argue that. You made it sound like you avoided carbs like the plague. This may be an over-generalization, but many of the elite natural pros that I know all run pretty moderate to high carbs. Once your body has adapted and been trained to spare glycogen, you use a tremendous amount during a workout, especially a good, high rep legs session. And you are more apt to burn fat for fuel doing normal, low-intensity daily chores. This is pretty much the premise that HIIT cardio operates on. Use the glycogen for cardio and burn fat during the day. Low to moderate intensity running/jogging should use very little glycogen.

    If you got fat eating carbs its simply because your overall calories were too high. Granted if you are coming out of a low carb diet and switching to moderate/high carbs it may take a while for your body to become less carb sensitive. BUt i believe if you slowly ramp them up you can achieve higher calorie intake over a high fat/low carb diet. Obviously, everyone is different but this has been my experience with a good majority of bodybuilders.

    Quote Originally Posted by runner_79 View Post
    Its a note a one size fits all...
    Certain diets can be carb dense. Athletes who need the carbs and actually utilize them, eat them like runners. I believe bb'rers get better results on a CKD and results show that
    I dont know that results necessarily show that. Im sure for every CKD'er you know with an impressive physique, I could show you a pic of a high-carb shredded freak show.

    Probably the biggest high carb, pop tart eating freak I know is Alberto Nunez. This guy DIETS on 500+g of carbs. He weighs 158ish lbs.



    Sean Campbell
    Pro Natural Bodybuilder
    NRC Sponsored Athlete - Cabergolean.com

  17. lol i hate to ruin the moment but his underwear is all messed up in 2nd pic

    lol
    The difference between who you are and who you want to be is what you do.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by rochabp View Post
    lol i hate to ruin the moment but his underwear is all messed up in 2nd pic

    lol
    He he he. Yea, I think the rule is that if you have lines ethced into your ass so deep you can see them from outer space.......you can wear your undies any way you like.
    Sean Campbell
    Pro Natural Bodybuilder
    NRC Sponsored Athlete - Cabergolean.com

  19. lol

    ...ima go do squats
    The difference between who you are and who you want to be is what you do.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    He he he. Yea, I think the rule is that if you have lines ethced into your ass so deep you can see them from outer space.......you can wear your undies any way you like.
    Your view, however, is skewed to one particular circumstance, which is just aesthetics and you're using elite competitors as your evidence. We all know that certain people are genetically pre-disposed to being shredded and very muscular. You can't use them as fair comparisons for the general populations since they do not have these advantages.

    This has been said many, many times before, but an essential carbohydrate does not exist. There are, however, essential fats and amino acids.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  21. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja

    Your view, however, is skewed to one particular circumstance, which is just aesthetics and you're using elite competitors as your evidence. We all know that certain people are genetically pre-disposed to being shredded and very muscular. You can't use them as fair comparisons for the general populations since they do not have these advantages.

    This has been said many, many times before, but an essential carbohydrate does not exist. There are, however, essential fats and amino acids.
    Very true. For most you have to eat around 1g protein per pound, eat healthy fats and earn your carbs.
    Some lucky people though need to eat loads of carbs just to keep weight up, or activity up. Some can run just on little carbs and just need enough for their activity levels and their own bodies usage of fuel.
    RecoverBro ELITE

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Your view, however, is skewed to one particular circumstance, which is just aesthetics and you're using elite competitors as your evidence. We all know that certain people are genetically pre-disposed to being shredded and very muscular. You can't use them as fair comparisons for the general populations since they do not have these advantages.
    I wasnt using the pics as evidence for anything. THe pic was posted in reply to Runner70 who said "I believe bb'rers get better results on a CKD and results show that". He was implying that bb'ers achieve better results running CKD. And while its ridiculous to post pics of any one person as evidence for a particular diet being "the" diet, its equally ridiculous to make blanket statements that the "evidence" shows bb'ers get better results on CKD. Thats all. Ive already stated my opinion and the scientific explanation of why I think carbs are a bodybuilders best friend. If you care to look beyond the pics you will say paragraphs upon paragraphs explaining my position.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    This has been said many, many times before, but an essential carbohydrate does not exist. There are, however, essential fats and amino acids.
    Fuel is ESSENTIAL for a car to run also. And the race car in my garage WILL will run on old 87 octane that I siphoned out of my lawn mower. But if I want it to perform I run it on 110 leaded.

    Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    Very true. For most you have to eat around 1g protein per pound, eat healthy fats and earn your carbs.
    Some lucky people though need to eat loads of carbs just to keep weight up, or activity up. Some can run just on little carbs and just need enough for their activity levels and their own bodies usage of fuel.
    I agree.....and ive never stated anything different. Everyone has to find their "sweet spot" for carbs/fat ratios. THat said, I think waaaay to many people assume they are "carb sensitive" without allowing time to really push the limits of their tolerance for high test fuel.
    Sean Campbell
    Pro Natural Bodybuilder
    NRC Sponsored Athlete - Cabergolean.com

  23. Egg whites, tuna, oatmeal, brown rice & sweet potato, baked chicken breast, banana.

    Banana kind of surprised me cause I hear some people say it's 50/50 with those....
    Hardcore Purus Labs {Rep}
    Lift the fücking weight from the floor, or leave it on the ground. The thoughts are supposed to be daunting. The pain is meant to be tormenting.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by bezoe

    Good to have you brother

    Mine too. Ive been high fat and low low carb for awhile now and just cant seem to get past this plateau.

    We will reveal whether or not this diet works for everyone as claimed. I get fat on too many carbs, but my theory is that when i was eating carbs i was eating the wrong ones, the wrong amount, and at the wrong times. Pulcinella claims that with these specific foods, and no outside junk thrown in, bodyfat will decrease.
    Carbs should be complex and first in AM & pre & post work out correct?

    What's the right or wrong amount?
    Hardcore Purus Labs {Rep}
    Lift the fücking weight from the floor, or leave it on the ground. The thoughts are supposed to be daunting. The pain is meant to be tormenting.

  25. Depending on goals.
    Brekky is a definite.
    Pre workout is a gray area. I could have a 2oz chicken and 1 egg and I'll be running and run at 75%+ but;

    Post w/o is vital. Need carbs 30-120 minutes after workout to shuttle glycogen into muscles to repair them. Small amounts along with BCAA whether a supplement or whole food ie protein source will allow for recovery

    If you are cutting, drop the carbs, if gaining then add them in
    ...::: Olympus Labs Representative :::...
    Crossfit - DEMIGOD -

  26. Quote Originally Posted by runner_79 View Post
    Depending on goals.
    Brekky is a definite.
    Pre workout is a gray area. I could have a 2oz chicken and 1 egg and I'll be running and run at 75%+ but;

    Post w/o is vital. Need carbs 30-120 minutes after workout to shuttle glycogen into muscles to repair them. Small amounts along with BCAA whether a supplement or whole food ie protein source will allow for recovery

    If you are cutting, drop the carbs, if gaining then add them in
    Glycogen synthesis, like protein synthesis, is an ongoing process and the idea that you need carbs after a training session is a bit inaccurate. It's more about overall amounts than specifics regarding the timing.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  27. Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    I wasnt using the pics as evidence for anything. THe pic was posted in reply to Runner70 who said "I believe bb'rers get better results on a CKD and results show that". He was implying that bb'ers achieve better results running CKD. And while its ridiculous to post pics of any one person as evidence for a particular diet being "the" diet, its equally ridiculous to make blanket statements that the "evidence" shows bb'ers get better results on CKD. Thats all. Ive already stated my opinion and the scientific explanation of why I think carbs are a bodybuilders best friend. If you care to look beyond the pics you will say paragraphs upon paragraphs explaining my position.
    Fuel is ESSENTIAL for a car to run also. And the race car in my garage WILL will run on old 87 octane that I siphoned out of my lawn mower. But if I want it to perform I run it on 110 leaded.

    I agree.....and ive never stated anything different. Everyone has to find their "sweet spot" for carbs/fat ratios. THat said, I think waaaay to many people assume they are "carb sensitive" without allowing time to really push the limits of their tolerance for high test fuel.
    I haven't seen any actual scientific backing of why carbs are a BB'ers best friend. You're mainly stating your opinion based upon your personal experiences.

    While we're on the topic of fuel, fats (specifically triglycerides) provide far more ATP than glycogen or glucose. Hell, intra-muscular triglycerides are always going to be the first source of fuel burned during any training.

    BB'ers are not athletes in the traditional sense in that their performance is only secondary to their primary purpose, which is an abstract shape. If you ask, 15 people about nutrition, you'll get 15 different answers. Grains, which are pretty much GE crap, are one of the primary reasons for the obesity epidemic in this country. Yes, people overeat, but their food selection plays heavily into this. It's pretty damn hard to get fat off of a diet of flesh and produce.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  28. I always looked at it from a point in time stance...
    I am still learning and give what "I know" whether it be right or wrong, I like to have input and if I'm wrong, I swallow my pride, learn more and digress as much info as possible.
    Thanks RODJA
    ...::: Olympus Labs Representative :::...
    Crossfit - DEMIGOD -

  29. Quote Originally Posted by runner_79 View Post
    I always looked at it from a point in time stance...
    I am still learning and give what "I know" whether it be right or wrong, I like to have input and if I'm wrong, I swallow my pride, learn more and digress as much info as possible.
    Thanks RODJA
    A lot of the reason for reason for this thinking is due to a dude that pretty much holds my academic future in his hands, Dr. John Ivy. His research is the basis for most of the post-training "window," but it's a little skewed in that they used endurance athletes and they were fasted.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  30. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    A lot of the reason for reason for this thinking is due to a dude that pretty much holds my academic future in his hands, Dr. John Ivy. His research is the basis for most of the post-training "window," but it's a little skewed in that they used endurance athletes and they were fasted.
    will give it a look into.
    Thanks
    ...::: Olympus Labs Representative :::...
    Crossfit - DEMIGOD -
  •   

      
     

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