25 Year old UK guy, low testosterone / adrenal dysfunction?

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  9. My NutrEval has just come through! Would really appreciate everyones help with having a look at it, especially yours Matrix.

    I haven't uploaded the FACT1 part as I have zero food allergies or even intolerences to report. I'm fine with wheat and dairy which are two things I'd cut out but may not need to have.

    The main body of the report though suggests I have a serious Vitamin C deficiency, a-lipoic acid deficiency and Lead only just within the reference range.

    I moved into a new flat 01/10/10 and began to get ill 25/12/10. I finally moved out of the new flat 25/02/12 as my job is under the threat due to illness. Blood for the Nutreval was drawn 13/04/12 giving a few weeks for levels to fall and be just within the reference range.

    I don't want to jump to conclusions but could this be the answer all along - lead poisoning. I eat 7 or 8 servings of fruit and veg per day so should be fine for Vit C, but doesn't Vit C get used up removing heavy metals?

    Download link to the report is below if anyone is good with them. There are some othere values slightly high and low but lead would seem to be the stand out one due to its toxicity - explaining the RT3?

    http://www.4shared.com/get/Qxw1cbZ7/Qwertynutreval.html

    Also, my second adrenal stress index came back (first one earlier in the thread was December when cortisol was low) and now cortisol is HIGH! if anything. Pours further fire on the idea of adrenal 'fatigue'

    http://www.4shared.com/get/oU2qF4jZ/QwertyASI.html

  10. Quote Originally Posted by qwerty42 View Post
    My NutrEval has just come through! Would really appreciate everyones help with having a look at it, especially yours Matrix.

    I haven't uploaded the FACT1 part as I have zero food allergies or even intolerences to report. I'm fine with wheat and dairy which are two things I'd cut out but may not need to have.

    The main body of the report though suggests I have a serious Vitamin C deficiency, a-lipoic acid deficiency and Lead only just within the reference range.

    I moved into a new flat 01/10/10 and began to get ill 25/12/10. I finally moved out of the new flat 25/02/12 as my job is under the threat due to illness. Blood for the Nutreval was drawn 13/04/12 giving a few weeks for levels to fall and be just within the reference range.

    I don't want to jump to conclusions but could this be the answer all along - lead poisoning. I eat 7 or 8 servings of fruit and veg per day so should be fine for Vit C, but doesn't Vit C get used up removing heavy metals?

    Download link to the report is below if anyone is good with them. There are some othere values slightly high and low but lead would seem to be the stand out one due to its toxicity - explaining the RT3?

    Qwertynutreval.pdf - 4shared.com - document sharing - download - j d

    Also, my second adrenal stress index came back (first one earlier in the thread was December when cortisol was low) and now cortisol is HIGH! if anything. Pours further fire on the idea of adrenal 'fatigue'

    QwertyASI.pdf - 4shared.com - document sharing - download - j d
    No wonder....your gut what I have been telling you all along.... I saw it with in the first 30 seconds...
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  11. I was listening all along my good man I just did not have the finances to get the nutreval done until now. How do I go about removing this lead then? Just increase vitamin C to a high dose? Or do I need to investigate chelation therapies?

  12. Quote Originally Posted by qwerty42
    I was listening all along my good man I just did not have the finances to get the nutreval done until now. How do I go about removing this lead then? Just increase vitamin C to a high dose? Or do I need to investigate chelation therapies?
    Lead would be least of my concerns ....you have the evidence do not go on wild goose chase..
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  13. Ok if lead is the least of my concerns then I am completely lost - can you clear some inbox space so I can PM you re: a consultation. Thanks

  14. Quote Originally Posted by qwerty42
    Ok if lead is the least of my concerns then I am completely lost - can you clear some inbox space so I can PM you re: a consultation. Thanks
    Done
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  15. Have just got my latest bloods back from my endo as well. Taken at 1:15pm which I know is not optimum for measuring testosterone but its rock bottom neverthless.

    Cortisol over the top of the range which ties in with my salivary cortisol results. ACTH also firing to full capacity. So much for exhausted adrenals.

    Endocrine

    Testosterone 9.8nmol/l (9-40)
    Cortisol 590 nmol/l (140-500) *
    ACTH 11pmol/l (2.0-11)
    SHBG 20 nmol/l (12-78)
    IGF1 40nmol/l (15-64)
    TSH 1.2 mU/l (0.3 -6.00)
    FT4 15.6 pmol/l (10-22)
    A’dione 3.4 nmol/l (1.0-8.5)
    DHEAS 10.6umol/l (0.3-12.0)
    LH 3.8 U/L (No range given)
    FSH 5.7 U/L (No range given)
    Progesterone 2.6 nmol/l (No range given)
    Oestradiol <50pmol/l (No range given)
    Prolactin 121 mU/l (<350)

    Urea & Electrolytes
    Sodium 142 mmol/L (133 – 146)
    Potassium 4.2 mmol/l (3.5 – 5.3)
    Chloride 102 mmol/l (95-108)
    Bicarbonate 29 mmol/l (22-29)
    Urea 7.8 mmol/l (2.5-7.8)
    Creatinine 101 umol/l (50-130)
    eGFR 77 ml/min1.73m^2>60
    Anion Gap 15 mmol/L (6-16)

    CMP
    Total CK 137 U/L (40-320)
    CRP <5 mg/L (<5)
    Total LDH 311 U/L (0-450)
    Albumin 50 g/l (35-50)
    Total Pro 69 g/l (60-80)
    Globulin 19 g/L (19-35)
    Alk Phos’ase 56 U/L (30-130)
    Bilirubin Total 7 umol/l (<21)
    ALT 32 U/L (<35)
    Gamma GT 13 U/L (<50)

    FBC
    HB 14.5 g/dl (13.0- 16.7)
    Haematocrit 40.0 % (39-50)
    Mean Cell Volume 95.5 fl (80-100)
    Platelets 223 x10^9/l (150-400)
    WBC 5.3 x10^9/l (3.5 -11)
    Neutrophilis 2.6 x10^9/l (2.0-7.5)
    Lymphocytes 1.9 x10^9/l (1.0-3.5)
    Monocytes 0.5 x10^9/l (0.2-0.8)
    Eosinophils 0.3 x10^9/l (0.0-0.4)
    Basophils 0.0 x10^9/l (0.0 – 0.2)

  16. For anyone still following along I read this article which briefly explains the gut - thyroid connection.

    http://drhedberg.com/2011/02/15/the-...id-connection/

    The theory I'm currently considering:

    Overtraining and calorie restriction drives up my cortisol and RT3 resulting in lowered immunity and low body temperature. Some form of dysbiosis / candida etc (don't know enough about them yet) starts spreading in my gut which would normally have been killed off at a normal body temperature with normal immunity.

    They precipitate continued impaired conversion of T4 to T3 as explained in that article and continually disrupt proper absorption of nutrients resulting in continued lower immunity, hence the continued sinus problems I have been having. Now the dysbiosis remains despite good diet / no training / lots of sleep and hence me possibly chasing the wrong stressor in the overtraining, which is obviously no longer going on now.


    The question is how to remove it iif it is there? One option,I am theorising, is just to use T3 for a time to increase body temperature to normal, removing the right envorinment (low temperature) for it to live.

    There are of course pro biotics, things to 'heal' the gut wall, elimination diets etc but I'm not well versed in any of them. (I'm obviously not particularly well versed in T3 or the thyroid either, but its what I've focused the bulk of my research on along with the rest of the endocrine system)

    I guess that is why we employ the experts, looking forward to getting matrix take on it in my consultation.
  17. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
    MidwestBeast's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty42 View Post
    For anyone still following along I read this article which briefly explains the gut - thyroid connection.

    http://drhedberg.com/2011/02/15/the-...id-connection/

    The theory I'm currently considering:

    Overtraining and calorie restriction drives up my cortisol and RT3 resulting in lowered immunity and low body temperature. Some form of dysbiosis / candida etc (don't know enough about them yet) starts spreading in my gut which would normally have been killed off at a normal body temperature with normal immunity.

    They precipitate continued impaired conversion of T4 to T3 as explained in that article and continually disrupt proper absorption of nutrients resulting in continued lower immunity, hence the continued sinus problems I have been having. Now the dysbiosis remains despite good diet / no training / lots of sleep and hence me possibly chasing the wrong stressor in the overtraining, which is obviously no longer going on now.


    The question is how to remove it iif it is there? One option,I am theorising, is just to use T3 for a time to increase body temperature to normal, removing the right envorinment (low temperature) for it to live.

    There are of course pro biotics, things to 'heal' the gut wall, elimination diets etc but I'm not well versed in any of them. (I'm obviously not particularly well versed in T3 or the thyroid either, but its what I've focused the bulk of my research on along with the rest of the endocrine system)

    I guess that is why we employ the experts, looking forward to getting matrix take on it in my consultation.
    I didn't have a chance to read that article, yet, but I will.

    A few things I can add are definitely don't go with just T3-only. I did that (100mcg T3/day for 10 weeks) and it crushed my rT3 (out of range low) and brought my TSH to technically hyperthyroidism (though I didn't experience any of the symptoms), but it also dropped my T4 levels low out of range, which isn't good. It also didn't bring my body temp up to 98.6 or over it, ever.

    An elimination diet might not be a bad idea. I still haven't done one (aside from going gluten free and not touching anything with yeast since early January), but I may.

    I'll be interested in what Shawn (The Matrix) has to say to you. I'm still working through all of my stuff, as well. Just know I'll be fighting this battle with you, buddy.
    Psalm 34:10 - "The lions may grow weak and hungry, but those who seek the Lord lack no good thing."
    EvoMuse Representative | [email protected] | Inspire to Evolve

  18. Thanks man- interesting to know about your experience with the T3 - as you say its likely not time to try that.

    The other half of my nutreval test confirmed I have zero allergies or intolerances, including to gluten, grains or dairy. I, like you, have cut out all bread etc anyway as I don't feel its a great source of carbohydrate anyway.

    The Candida diet seems to suggest a zero sugar, including fructose, diet at all to starve any growths in the stomach and there does not seem to be massive success with it anyway. I'm sure there must be a better way as fruits are too nutritious to cut out.

    Cheers for the kind words, will keep updating the thread as we go.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by qwerty42 View Post
    Thanks man- interesting to know about your experience with the T3 - as you say its likely not time to try that.

    The other half of my nutreval test confirmed I have zero allergies or intolerances, including to gluten, grains or dairy. I, like you, have cut out all bread etc anyway as I don't feel its a great source of carbohydrate anyway.

    The Candida diet seems to suggest a zero sugar, including fructose, diet at all to starve any growths in the stomach and there does not seem to be massive success with it anyway. I'm sure there must be a better way as fruits are too nutritious to cut out.

    Cheers for the kind words, will keep updating the thread as we go.
    you got mail...

    FYI the biggest mistakes made by people is going after the wrong sequence of events. You need to address the GI tract first get things moving before going after methylation or you will put your self into a potential dangerous situation..this is why havong case history is crucial. Amazing the reaction when first question out of my mouth is "how are your bowel moments"..KODAK MOMENT, but that will dicate what happens first in any case. Go back and read my post 30% of people who have altered intestinal permeablity are shown to have no Gi related issues. This is why these test are crucial it picks up hidden things.
    I tried this approach and ended up bed righten for almost a week.

    Analogy
    Your pouring draino into a toilet full of SHIZT, you need to stop crapping in it first before the draino can do its good.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  20. Have pm'd you as have not got mail yet?

    I'm bowing to you on this one, as I've done zero research into the gut really or methylation. All of my effort has been spent trying to learn about hormones this past 12 months so I'm fresh out of mental energy!

    You were right to call the gut early on, I just was unsure as I have good sized, frequent stools, no gas or constipation etc but the Nutreval says otherwise so its over to you!

  21. Quote Originally Posted by qwerty42 View Post
    Have pm'd you as have not got mail yet?

    I'm bowing to you on this one, as I've done zero research into the gut really or methylation. All of my effort has been spent trying to learn about hormones this past 12 months so I'm fresh out of mental energy!

    You were right to call the gut early on, I just was unsure as I have good sized, frequent stools, no gas or constipation etc but the Nutreval says otherwise so its over to you!
    Other guy picked up on it too...intestinal permeabilit which i called AKA leaky gut...I suspect mutations because of angelo saxon background which he picked up on as well.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  22. Just to update - I haven't been on in a couple of weeks as I've been trying to zone out from all the researching and reading as a means of chilling out on the stress of the whole situation.

    But I am only 10 days into some of the changes that I discussed with Shawn (some of which JanSZ noted) and some of my symptoms have shown improvements already. I'm slowly adding in supplements in and logging any changes for better or worse.

    As said I won't be discussing specifics supplement recommendations which may work for me may not work for others and because of individual chemistry. There is no cookie cutter approach; every ones body is different and my case seems particularly complex.

    With that said we are adressing my fatty acid balance, cutting out EPA for now and upping ALA sources of Hemp Butter & Walnut oil, adding supplements to target the bacterial dysbiosis and heal the GI system and adding precursors to boost gluthatione levels.

    In terms of how which symptoms have shown change already:

    *Dry & Photophobic eyes - have to wear sunglasses using screens and was putting liquid tear solution in every hour. 14 days in and I'm no longer having to apply the gel as they are not really dry, just still sensitive to light. This is pretty major as it is the symptom that was most likely to stop me from working and thus paying for further treament / tests. So a definite plus.

    *Fatigue - no where near as tired already, can make it 6am - 10pm with no nap and Shawn had me gradually add in some exercise. I'm currently doing 40 min 130bmp cardio (low intensity) in a sauna suit to get some sweating on to help detoxify aid the immune system. On a scale of 1-10 with 1 being bed bound and 10 peforming in added time of high level sport (where I used to be) I'd say I've gone from a 4 to a 6 in two weeks.

    *Mood is better - I think because I've finally had someone explain things to me and how everything can explain some of the worrying symptoms I'd had like the previous anxiety etc

    *Libido - Although no real desire or checking out women or anywhere near back to the previous v high libido I had, given it was 0% as in nothing, it makes it easy to notice a a 5-10% increase already. Weak but consistent morning erections now and flaccid member size is closer to previous usual size, and it and testicles hanging a little bit lower / more freely. Not sure about their size, never really noticed their size pre-getting sick so couldn't comment.

    Some symptoms have shown no change yet - still waking at night and I'm still congested most of the time but for less than 2 full weeks in I'm very hopeful of continuing to make progress.

    Matrix/Shawn sometimes doesn't come across well grammatically on the forums but the difference in person is night and day. He is articulate and really good at breaking things down. Most notably he has made me realise that unless one has a structural defect causing the low hormones then there are so many paths to investigate before jumping on HRT.

    Hopefully this is the begining of some real progress for me, will keep updating.

  23. Thanks for the update, I've been following along as I think I may have some gut problems as well. Earlier you mentioned you found out your high level of lead was causing a vitamin C deficiency, and matrix suggesting lead should not be your concern... this confused me. Is that not related to the gut-thyroid thing you are investigating with matrix?

  24. Quote Originally Posted by TML499 View Post
    Thanks for the update, I've been following along as I think I may have some gut problems as well. Earlier you mentioned you found out your high level of lead was causing a vitamin C deficiency, and matrix suggesting lead should not be your concern... this confused me. Is that not related to the gut-thyroid thing you are investigating with matrix?
    As mentioned before you need to isolate the variables and see the whole impact on them systemically while matching them up to symptoms. Too many people are chasing their tail and need to pull them selve back a bit and take a look at grand scale. Failure I see in each case which comes across my desk are from people who are micomanaging their health chasing one area rather then look at the integration of all the system and how they all complement one another. I am learning new things each week from some of the top specialist in the field not talking hormones, but rather SNPS, nutragenomics, and other areas which are going to make a huge impact on the future of health.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  25. Would love an update on this. Feel I may be in a similar situation but reading all your protocols has been very interesting
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