tenntarheel
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Can you just give us a rundown of what supplements are working for you?? It isn't for us to copy your protocol or anything bc everyone is indeed different. But it can help us learn and give us food for thought.
I work with people from all over the world as well as many on here and other health forums. Due to forum rules I told them not to tell who they are working with and give only the main parts. This is not to hide anything from any one, but to protect people from killing them selves. Dealing with hormones is nothing compared to correcting neurological and enzymatic pathways. I get 1-2 calls a week where people are suicidal because of just the OTC supplements which were recommended. Simple the wrong combination of a few over the counter supplementation in the wrong environment could be not a good scenario. He has gotten the proper testing which is now opening doors to why TRT is not working as many others are finding out, but just are not saying much. To give you a good analogy. Its like giving a child a match and a stick of TNT. This is nothing to be fooled with unless you know what you are doing. Currently he is not on any supplements at this time, but soon will working to balance out his detoxification system, neurotransmitters, and other genetic road blocks ..Can you just give us a rundown of what supplements are working for you?? It isn't for us to copy your protocol or anything bc everyone is indeed different. But it can help us learn and give us food for thought.
Again in a wrong situation these recommendation can cause major issues. So these recommendations are actually can be counter productive in his case. People have good intentions, but until knowing the what the testing results one find out why certain things have not been working in the past.I would first try taking a CHOLINE BITARTRATE supplement.
After 2 days add some MOLYBDENUM.
Then add B6(5P5), B9(Metafolin), M-B12 (methlycobalamin), and AD-B12(dibencozide).
See if that helps with the nightly congestion.
I think you could use 5mg of DHEA, ED.
Yeah man..... it just depends on how far down the rabbit hole you want to go.Proper testing? In addition to this thread?
I don't know if it's available where you're at, but there might be some other things you can look at.Thanks for the input - I'm having my consultation tomorrow though so will being going off suggestions thoroughly. Will try and keep this thread more up to date. I would say, from what I now understand, I think I'd have been better off doing some of the testing the other way round. They're expensive tests and in hindsight should have done
1st. 23andme
2nd. NutrEval
3rd. Gi Effects
His issues is outside hormones as many younger guys are. Low testosterone is just an expression alterations in genetic imbalances..Have you been checked for MAIS??
Sorry hadn't seen this Mr TT.Sinus congestion during the night. Wake up 3-30 -4 AM every night completely congested and incredibly thirsty. Pint of water eases the congestion.
I'm really stuck on this one. CONGESTION?(mucus) or ANGIOEDEMA(nasal swelling)? Water is a fast cure?
I have no personal, common, experiences..... how can water cure anything? (I'm thinking out loud here)
Do you have PROGESTERONE levels? IgE?
If you take an antihistamine at bedtime would you not wake up with this swelling??Sorry hadn't seen this Mr TT.
Its no mucus but swelling instead. With a post nasal drip as well. Water does help it and it actually hasn't been as pronounced the last 3-4 nights.
(The changes I've made in the last 10 days include dropping all supplementation and starting Test - Cyp )
Excellent information and it is the future of medicine ...If you're interested in a brief presentation in how blockages in methylation can contribute towards lower T levels, depression, anxiety, CFS etc then have a look at this:
h ttp://vimeo.com/33039195#
Outstanding... 5MTHF has become of serious interest to me. Forgive me for dumbing the name down, you clearly know your stuff. I've been told this supplement can take up to two months to really take effect. And the caffeine issue should have been a no brainer as it aggravates adrenal fatigue. I am going through a lot of similar things right now as well. I definently have a gluten intolerance though, previously drank heavily, and have hyperthyroidism. My endocrine system is so messed up I had a test level of 214 and 3 weeks later 608. Keep us posted on things. Good luck.Yeah - the presentation there talks about 5MTHF methylfolate (note- note methyl folic acid, no such thing). That is one supplement which I have started.
I no longer make any recommendations with out genetic testing. By taking this approach it will reduce cost over worthless and possible toxic choices of supplements. The common response I see when people start taking meds, or supplements drs recommend they work for a while then stop. Since taking this approach the medical professionals I have been working with are seeing a significant change in their patients which have been to Dr to Dr for many years. Again this is not the magic bullet for every one, but it does give a better insight to the more challenging cases I deal with from Dr's. People with lyme, this has been a God sent because its allowing people who have been blasted with antibiotics still with no resolution. Now diets can be developed and supplements which may personalize to help you then to harm you. Good example would be people recommending NaC 600 mgs. Not knowing anything about the persons biochemistry. In this persons biochemistry it could have been a disaster potential causing neurological problems .Unless a person knows what they are doing leave this to a expert in the field. So many people end up doing more damage then good trying to self dedicate with OTC supplements.Outstanding... 5MTHF has become of serious interest to me. Forgive me for dumbing the name down, you clearly know your stuff. I've been told this supplement can take up to two months to really take effect. And the caffeine issue should have been a no brainer as it aggravates adrenal fatigue. I am going through a lot of similar things right now as well. I definently have a gluten intolerance though, previously drank heavily, and have hyperthyroidism. My endocrine system is so messed up I had a test level of 214 and 3 weeks later 608. Keep us posted on things. Good luck.
Edit: Mucuna Pruriens is a very versatile bean and has personally helped me with mood, libido, anxiety, and sexual stamina. The stuff is cheap and very effective. Don't know how much you already know of it but there is a lot of info here and online. Never seen any side effects at 500 mg to several grams daily.
serum b-12 and folates are worthless when supplementing. It does not show a true indication. Methylation not working right will cause a build up of not just iron, but also copper and other metals and toxins as well. Follow the info on ATM from Desert Eagle about phlebs and HRT..As usual people tend to miss the most crucial things, but run around like chicken with out a head wondering why they are having issues.Had some new labs back which tend to support problems with my methylation and b-vitamin usage, namely sky high serum B12 and over range Folate (Not entirely sure HOW high folate is as the lab doesn't measure past 20. My iron also seems to be creeping up again after last giving blood to get it down in April. Matrix can correct me if wrong but I believe this is because the body doesn't deal well with build up of iron when methylation isn't working.
Serum B12: 1940 ng/L (211 - 911)
Serum folate: >20 ug/L (4.6 - 18.7)
Ferritin 95 ug/L (30-330)
Serum TIBC 52 umol/L (40-70)
Serum iron level 30 (10-30)
Saturation iron binding capacity 58%
Depends on.whose Interpreting them. majority of.times its black or white. Most of cases are.in the gray ..The results from the ACTH test should indicate primary or secondary adrenal insufficiency.
I keep telling people this. Guys are chasing numbers. I have some monsters I train with TT of 400-450, but their GH, cortisol, thyroid are very healthy. Which can make a huge difference when the other systems are compensating for each other. Its not about testosterone its about balancing out the person bio-individuality.Getting my T level results at the end of the week. I'll have been injected 50mg x 2 per week sub q and so far not feeling any different.
Had quite an interesting chat with a really helpful guy at the clinic doing the bloods - it was a steroid harm reduction clinic that do free bloods, so he tests upwards of 50 guys a week.
He said that hes got a couple of natty high level bodybuilders who come to get levels done out interest and they test around 12nmol (350 US) and they don't report any symptoms of low T, libido is fine etc and they carry a fair amount of mass.
He also said that on average he doesn't see that many people above 20 - 21.
Admittedly the majority of people attending have at some point used AAS so may not be a good reflection but he doesn't use and said hes tested himself multiple times when hes had odd symptoms, such as reduced libido and his T has always been a consistent 14-15 (406 - 450) and he feels fine the majority of the time.
Just thought it was quite good food for thought - chasing the golden 700 - 800 may well not be the magic bullet for a lot of guys.
People are so focused on thyroid for thermogenisis in the body. It's only one of the multiple mechanism which can stimulate increased temperatures. If you do not correct methylation your neurotransmitters will not work properly. Why a lot of people end up on drugs which do not have to be.No real positive changes to report as of yet. Still feeling awful.I'm wondering if a main problem for me really is low noepinepherine. Two of the markers for its urinary metabolites 3methyl-4-OHphenylglycol and vanillyl mandelic acid are both low on my nutreval and only just in range in comparison to the serotonin and dopamine ones which seem at good levels. Low mood, no libido, low energy, difficulty concentrating, low body temperature in the prescence of goodl thyroid / adrenals, temperature that drops following exercise, mild hypotension on rising from a chair quickly, and sinus congestion could quite neatly fit under low NE symptoms could they not?And just further to that I'm additionally thinking low NE over low dopamine due to the fact my prolactin is always in range and low - middle.
Examine SHBG and you are chewing through it like crazy.Update:
Got my T level results back over the phone from the clinic. Pretty confusing. Testosterone is only at 16 (464) after 3.5 weeks at injecting 50mg x 2 per week. Estrogen has risen but still in range 94 (28 - 156)
My LH and FSH have dropped but are still detectable and my nuts have shrunk further so I think it is genuine T.
Obviously I don't feel any different so I'm wondering whats happening.
a) underdosed? should I increase to 75mg x 2
b) body chewing through Testosterone and using it up quickly?
c)???
The other part of me is thinking that I should just get off it and run a PCT as we think its unlikely T is the cause of my problems with a baseline of 417.
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