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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    LG does NOT promote whey between meals. You've said that over and over yet it is not close to true. Yes, BCAA is recommended, but not whey between meals. Whey can be used as an alternative to BCAA pre-training, but not haphazardly between meals.

    No person on this board is competing at the IFBB level and, elephant in the room, copious doses of AAS vastly change the equation on protein synthesis. Using the elite of any sport will not translate to the lay person as we're not programmed in the same manner as them when it comes to talent and genetics. Training and using the same AAS cocktail like Ronnie or Chuck Vogelpohl will not make you into them or even put you in the same league as them. This is the main reason that the applicability of professionals of any sport has little bearing on the overwhelming majority of the population.

    To address the IF and intensity (granted n=1 here), while I implemented this particular diet, I added over 200lbs to my total while losing approximately 15-18lbs in a period of about 6 months. The only reason I deviated from it was that my training schedule changed and my bench and squat/deadlift sessions wouldn't end until after my feeding window was open and my geared sessions would take close to 2-3 hours.
    BCAAs take advantage of the benefits of frequent, regular ingestion of amino acids just like the diets some people seem to hold in contention for lack of research as to the efficacy of said diet. The TEF angle was only one in the discussion of frequency too. It evolved to protein synthesis and essentially became the argument of many that frequent meals are unnecessary all the way around and the use of such a diet is archaic, while leangains minions are frequently ingesting strategic macros (whole protein) and aminos (bcaa) outside their feeding times anyways. Official feeding times carrying the label that is.

    I took the whey suggestion from leangains FAQ section but it may have been only pre-workout though this still acknowledges a need for nutrient timing and frequent ingestion of aminos, still contradictory to the argument that a frequent ingestion of aminos isn't effective due to a lack of research. I realize these are general argument points and come from a smattering of people across a few topic threads but it's a ridiculous box to be on as they down protein around the clock or at least as frequently as 5 or 6 times per day between meals and supplementation, especially when that camp seems to believe it doesn't matter when macros are ingested as long as they are. It's a lot of dancing around to eat within a window and then outside of it with supps when you could just break it all down to 5 or 6 meals, have the same macros ingested in the same time frame along with frequent protein intake.

    Yes, copious doses of AAS do change the protein synthesis ballgame. That said, if LG and the Warrior Diet were the optimum bulk dieting methodologies, AAS coupled with LG or Warrior would be the "weapon of choice", but it isn't. And yeah, genetics do play a huge role in aesthetics. Muscle belly insertions, fiber types, shape et cetera. Even ugly people grow though and everyone in between. One person on diet X may have a bicep that inserts an inch or two higher than another on the same diet. The fact the longer bicep will look better has no bearing on the diet's efficacy. Furthermore, many people on this board use AAS. There is even a forum for it. If not AAS, pro-hormones. I believe your company sells supplements to ellicit hormonal changes? The general readership is a mixture of naturals, users, beginners, intermediates and a handful of seemingly experts, or at least well versed lifters so sampling for a specific population or excluding one isn't very accurate, except for maybe elite level bodybuilders or powerlifters but you never know. Either way, a diet is a diet for a pro or joe alike.

    Congratulations on adding 200lbs to your total. That is significant and a source of accomplishment I'm sure. As an aside, and only for my curiosity, are you natural? Do you use PES products? And, unfortunately without a time machine, nobody will ever know if that time period could've produced a 250 lb gain. Also, while powerlifting and bodybuilding are similar in that we both lift weights, different physiological reactions are the goal for each sport.

    Bodybuilding, where bulking traditionally finds it's home, is designed to induce as much muscle damage as possible, where powerlifting largely takes advantage of neural adaptations. There is of course cross over but it's plainly obvious an hour or two of bodybuilding training vs. powerlifting ellicits much different results which can change the ballgame of protein synthesis significantly as well.

    We don't have many studies to refer to on this point. The closest measures something like .8 grams of protein per pound of lean mass on a sample tested for powerlifting. Powerlifting /=/ Bodybuilding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy View Post
    BCAAs take advantage of the benefits of frequent, regular ingestion of amino acids just like the diets some people seem to hold in contention for lack of research as to the efficacy of said diet. The TEF angle was only one in the discussion of frequency too. It evolved to protein synthesis and essentially became the argument of many that frequent meals are unnecessary all the way around and the use of such a diet is archaic, while leangains minions are frequently ingesting strategic macros (whole protein) and aminos (bcaa) outside their feeding times anyways. Official feeding times carrying the label that is.

    I took the whey suggestion from leangains FAQ section but it may have been only pre-workout though this still acknowledges a need for nutrient timing and frequent ingestion of aminos, still contradictory to the argument that a frequent ingestion of aminos isn't effective due to a lack of research. I realize these are general argument points and come from a smattering of people across a few topic threads but it's a ridiculous box to be on as they down protein around the clock or at least as frequently as 5 or 6 times per day between meals and supplementation, especially when that camp seems to believe it doesn't matter when macros are ingested as long as they are. It's a lot of dancing around to eat within a window and then outside of it with supps when you could just break it all down to 5 or 6 meals, have the same macros ingested in the same time frame along with frequent protein intake.

    Yes, copious doses of AAS do change the protein synthesis ballgame. That said, if LG and the Warrior Diet were the optimum bulk dieting methodologies, AAS coupled with LG or Warrior would be the "weapon of choice", but it isn't. And yeah, genetics do play a huge role in aesthetics. Muscle belly insertions, fiber types, shape et cetera. Even ugly people grow though and everyone in between. One person on diet X may have a bicep that inserts an inch or two higher than another on the same diet. The fact the longer bicep will look better has no bearing on the diet's efficacy. Furthermore, many people on this board use AAS. There is even a forum for it. If not AAS, pro-hormones. I believe your company sells supplements to ellicit hormonal changes? The general readership is a mixture of naturals, users, beginners, intermediates and a handful of seemingly experts, or at least well versed lifters so sampling for a specific population or excluding one isn't very accurate, except for maybe elite level bodybuilders or powerlifters but you never know. Either way, a diet is a diet for a pro or joe alike.

    Congratulations on adding 200lbs to your total. That is significant and a source of accomplishment I'm sure. As an aside, and only for my curiosity, are you natural? Do you use PES products? And, unfortunately without a time machine, nobody will ever know if that time period could've produced a 250 lb gain. Also, while powerlifting and bodybuilding are similar in that we both lift weights, different physiological reactions are the goal for each sport.

    Bodybuilding, where bulking traditionally finds it's home, is designed to induce as much muscle damage as possible, where powerlifting largely takes advantage of neural adaptations. There is of course cross over but it's plainly obvious an hour or two of bodybuilding training vs. powerlifting ellicits much different results which can change the ballgame of protein synthesis significantly as well.

    We don't have many studies to refer to on this point. The closest measures something like .8 grams of protein per pound of lean mass on a sample tested for powerlifting. Powerlifting /=/ Bodybuilding.
    And you say that I ramble...

    There's too much crap in this post to even take the time to address other than your red herrings.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    And you say that I ramble...

    There's too much crap in this post to even take the time to address other than your red herrings.
    Ok.
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    AAS =/= natural.

    LG, Doggcrapp, Warrior Diet, etc, are designed for the person that is not utilizing steroids. You add any PEDs and everything goes up in the air. A person going on a natural lean bulk would never add +1500 calories to their maintenance level; a person who has a cocktail of Winstrol, D-Bol, etc, etc, can very well manage to go that route and still continue to have it being a "lean bulk". That's the purpose of steroids - to allow you to make gains you wouldn't naturally make. In the same coin, steroids will also allow you to "overtrain" and get away with it while still making gains, therefore, not quite relevant to the discussion.
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    "I can't apply inferred knowledge from a picture book but I know how to pick a popular forum member and ride his opinion coat tails while ingesting macros 5-6 times per day and then slamming the notion of ingesting macros 5-6 times per day. Oh yah, and back to my original post in this thread; if you can't get your macros in, just skip them. It's cool." - Celorza

    And thanks for the laughs. I still want you to let me know when you break the buck fifty club in the bulking forum with all this super magic diet knowledge that makes all of bodybuilding before it a unicorn or something.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bla55 View Post
    AAS =/= natural.

    LG, Doggcrapp, Warrior Diet, etc, are designed for the person that is not utilizing steroids. You add any PEDs and everything goes up in the air. A person going on a natural lean bulk would never add +1500 calories to their maintenance level; a person who has a cocktail of Winstrol, D-Bol, etc, etc, can very well manage to go that route and still continue to have it being a "lean bulk". That's the purpose of steroids - to allow you to make gains you wouldn't naturally make. In the same coin, steroids will also allow you to "overtrain" and get away with it while still making gains, therefore, not quite relevant to the discussion.
    This completely nullifies the argument that it doesn't matter when you get them in as long as you get them in, steroids or not. Steroids are a tool alongside training and diet. They are a multiplier. If the warrior diet is optimum without, it is accelerated with.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy View Post
    "I can't apply inferred knowledge from a picture book but I know how to pick a popular forum member and ride his opinion coat tails while ingesting macros 5-6 times per day and then slamming the notion of ingesting macros 5-6 times per day. Oh yah, and back to my original post in this thread; if you can't get your macros in, just skip them. It's cool." - Celorza

    And thanks for the laughs. I still want you to let me know when you break the buck fifty club in the bulking forum with all this super magic diet knowledge that makes all of bodybuilding before it a unicorn or something.
    Lol I'm still waiting for you to get a brain and/or understand different goals in life are possible. I do not care about being a freak-show that can't wipe it's own ass. Oh and forgive me...but I have FAR more stuff going in my life than being under 10% BF (which I usually am anyway...).

    Now as far as waiting comes...I'm waiting for you to try and prove your totals in strength with me I am still sure I am stronger than you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy View Post
    This completely nullifies the argument that it doesn't matter when you get them in as long as you get them in, steroids or not. Steroids are a tool alongside training and diet. They are a multiplier. If the warrior diet is optimum without, it is accelerated with.
    Please explain how this nullifies the argument? And steroids are a tool, a multiplier, that are to be taken COMPLETELY out of the picture when deciding whether a diet for REGULAR people searching for NATURAL gains.

    It would be like me telling you to bulk the sh1t up, eat 6k calories above your maintenance a day and work your a$$ off in the gym, when you're done, just go and get liposuction done. I mean, it is a tool alongside training and diet as well, right?
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    Brb logging into bb.com to get away from pointless drama.

    "You're tiny brah"


    "I bet I lift more lb for lb brah"

    Stop being a bunch of babies. You don't agree, get over it and move on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    Brb logging into bb.com to get away from pointless drama.

    "You're tiny brah"


    "I bet I lift more lb for lb brah"

    Stop being a bunch of babies. You don't agree, get over it and move on.
    Stop being the meddling bitch if you don't like it. Just saying !
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    Re: Meals


    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post
    Stop being the meddling bitch if you don't like it. Just saying !
    Everyone chill out... Good lord

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post
    Stop being the meddling bitch if you don't like it. Just saying !
    seriously?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmftisftw View Post
    seriously?
    ' no one gets the annoying relationship Jim and I have, he talks to me like that, I do too...not being serious with him, neither is he sometimes when he dizzes me.

    Question is to you: Seriously?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post

    ' no one gets the annoying relationship Jim and I have, he talks to me like that, I do too...not being serious with him, neither is he sometimes when he dizzes me.

    Question is to you: Seriously?
    Idk cel, that was a little beyond what generally goes on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post
    Lol I'm still waiting for you to get a brain and/or understand different goals in life are possible. I do not care about being a freak-show that can't wipe it's own ass. Oh and forgive me...but I have FAR more stuff going in my life than being under 10% BF (which I usually am anyway...).

    Now as far as waiting comes...I'm waiting for you to try and prove your totals in strength with me I am still sure I am stronger than you.
    LOL. Talk about a meddling bitch. You can give all the neg rep points you want but I'm going to let you in on a secret, internet points don't mean anything. Real world application and results do. You are a very, very, very little dude in a bulking forum giving bulking advice, kind of. For all the studies you allegedly can read, you don't have a leg to stand on because application is another story altogether and you haven't done it.

    You instead try to change the subject and suggest a dude just skip some of his needed macros and then deduct points from people who call you out on that.

    All the internet points in the world won't make that advice in context smart. And again, I don't give a **** what your totals are. We are after different physiological effects, and yours clearly isn't hypertrophy.

    After football, bodybuilding became my goal and I would bet at the peak of my strength training I was stronger than you,even if I'm not still. Faster, more agile and more flexible with better reflexes too. You may have a ratio on me either now or then but hey, to go off topic (to the second power?) and briefly myself, I bet I was much more talented at applying my strength to an actual endeavour outside of just building it. And I'll take that over being a trivial little internet bitch the size of a 7th grader all day, along a physique you don't even know how to achieve, although you'll argue methodologies to such a physique as if you do.

    Now I typically prefer not to go in to the personal realm but it can be fun when it's brought to me. You sir, are a little bitch who wouldn't know how to bulk out of a baby crib and are talking out of your ass where results are concerned. All the studies in the world won't make your bs advice to the OP of this thread applicaple. Feel free to deduct away though, I heard it can add a few pounds during a fast. Hell, if I knew how I'd transfer all my points to you. They might make up for your body!


    Now getting back on topic, please tell the OP who needs to meet X amount of calories per day and is having trouble doing so how skipping some of them will help him, in his chosen diet, achieve his goal?

    Let's see whose actually deserving of +/- reputation points where applicaple advice is concerned, shall we? Or set me straight as a newb, are points intended for cattiness exhibited by posters?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza

    ' no one gets the annoying relationship Jim and I have, he talks to me like that, I do too...not being serious with him, neither is he sometimes when he dizzes me.

    Question is to you: Seriously?
    Lmao. Seriously?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick

    Idk cel, that was a little beyond what generally goes on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy View Post

    LOL. Talk about a meddling bitch. You can give all the neg rep points you want but I'm going to let you in on a secret, internet points don't mean anything. Real world application and results do. You are a very, very, very little dude in a bulking forum giving bulking advice, kind of. For all the studies you allegedly can read, you don't have a leg to stand on because application is another story altogether and you haven't done it.

    You instead try to change the subject and suggest a dude just skip some of his needed macros and then deduct points from people who call you out on that.

    All the internet points in the world won't make that advice in context smart. And again, I don't give a **** what your totals are. We are after different physiological effects, and yours clearly isn't hypertrophy.

    After football, bodybuilding became my goal and I would bet at the peak of my strength training I was stronger than you,even if I'm not still. Faster, more agile and more flexible with better reflexes too. You may have a ratio on me either now or then but hey, to go off topic (to the second power?) and briefly myself, I bet I was much more talented at applying my strength to an actual endeavour outside of just building it. And I'll take that over being a trivial little internet bitch the size of a 7th grader all day, along a physique you don't even know how to achieve, although you'll argue methodologies to such a physique as if you do.

    Now I typically prefer not to go in to the personal realm but it can be fun when it's brought to me. You sir, are a little bitch who wouldn't know how to bulk out of a baby crib and are talking out of your ass where results are concerned. All the studies in the world won't make your bs advice to the OP of this thread applicaple. Feel free to deduct away though, I heard it can add a few pounds during a fast. Hell, if I knew how I'd transfer all my points to you. They might make up for your body!

    Now getting back on topic, please tell the OP who needs to meet X amount of calories per day and is having trouble doing so how skipping some of them will help him, in his chosen diet, achieve his goal?

    Let's see whose actually deserving of +/- reputation points where applicaple advice is concerned, shall we? Or set me straight as a newb, are points intended for cattiness exhibited by posters?
    Bro just let it go.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy View Post


    Now getting back on topic, please tell the OP who needs to meet X amount of calories per day and is having trouble doing so how skipping some of them will help him, in his chosen diet, achieve his goal?

    Let's see whose actually deserving of +/- reputation points where applicaple advice is concerned, shall we? Or set me straight as a newb, are points intended for cattiness exhibited by posters?
    its already been covered by hvac and others haha just add healthy fats like natty pb and a couple glasses of milk should be too easy to get those extra cals!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by bla55 View Post
    Please explain how this nullifies the argument? And steroids are a tool, a multiplier, that are to be taken COMPLETELY out of the picture when deciding whether a diet for REGULAR people searching for NATURAL gains.

    It would be like me telling you to bulk the sh1t up, eat 6k calories above your maintenance a day and work your a$$ off in the gym, when you're done, just go and get liposuction done. I mean, it is a tool alongside training and diet as well, right?
    First you tell me why, if IF or Warrior are optimal natural, they aren't even more so on steroids? You can still eat 6,000 calories on those diets and allegedly it doesn't matter when you get them in as long as you do. Using steroids makes 6000 calories eaten in and IF fashion somehow inferior? How and why?


    - And for the record, my tone is quizzical. Hopefully you won't be turning petty too. I can appreciate a conversation, even some personal jabs. Especially if I wind up learning something, though so far, as far as I'm concerned, you and I see different paths to same place and acknowledge them as such. For the most part. I do believe mine is more effective though but I'm sure you do to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    Idk cel, that was a little beyond what generally goes on.
    It's not the first time he thinks he can belittle me for not being a heavy kid, my goal is neither aesthetics nor brute-sized physique...my goal is strength, and my weight class is MY choice for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmftisftw View Post
    its already been covered by hvac and others haha just add healthy fats like natty pb and a couple glasses of milk should be too easy to get those extra cals!!
    Good. It was a rhetorical question for Celorza though, who initally inferred the OP just skip the macros altogether with no advice as to hitting them and who offered no legitimate defense as to why his initial advice of skipping instead was a good idea but felt that attacking diets addressing the question was somehow helpful.

    HVAC does post good stuff, I've appreciated reading some of it around the boards.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post
    It's not the first time he thinks he can belittle me for not being a heavy kid, my goal is neither aesthetics nor brute-sized physique...my goal is strength, and my weight class is MY choice for it.
    And it shows. Get out of the bulking forum with your ****ty bulking advice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R3ACTION
    Bonus!
    Quit being a meddling bitch Nate. It's cool this is how we talk to each other. We are bff's!
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy View Post

    And it shows. Get out of the bulking forum with your ****ty bulking advice.
    He said, or someone said, that not eating breakfast could increase his appetite and allow him to eat more later in the day IIRC.

    Which means he did give a reason for it. If you don't agree with that reasoning then more power to you but maybe you should BOTH take a step back and keep the petty attacks out of this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    Bro just let it go.
    Yeah, I can't believe I'm actually getting frustrated on the internet, and while talking internet points down! I'm going to go hit some clean presses for reps and eat my fifth meal after.

    S$%T!





    As a general comment to the thread, I've said my piece, the Layne Norton article and all it's studies pertaining to meal frequency and anabolism are out there as are the obvious limitiations to protein synthesis studies as applied to bodybuilding and hopefully lesser experienced guys will look in to the ideas presented on both sides before buying hype, even if they choose the current popular diet in the long run.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiveToLift View Post

    Quit being a meddling bitch Nate. It's cool this is how we talk to each other. We are bff's!
    How dare you! Your bedside manner is outrageous!
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy View Post
    And it shows. Get out of the bulking forum with your ****ty bulking advice.
    Lol , the dynamic duo are here (as usual) , I'll take you on some other time when the power puff twins are not stalking as usual.

    Anyhow, I never told him to skip macros, and I stand by what I said...breakfast is neither necessary nor important...even when bulking. Also like I said, I do not need to be a bulky animal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza

    Lol , the dynamic duo are here (as usual) , I'll take you on some other time when the power puff twins are not stalking as usual.

    Anyhow, I never told him to skip macros, and I stand by what I said...breakfast is neither necessary nor important...even when bulking. Also like I said, I do not need to be a bulky animal.
    I like the way that sounds. Funny you would call someone a stalker though so I do take offense there sir. :-)
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    He said, or someone said, that not eating breakfast could increase his appetite and allow him to eat more later in the day IIRC.

    Which means he did give a reason for it. If you don't agree with that reasoning then more power to you but maybe you should BOTH take a step back and keep the petty attacks out of this.
    Jiggz implied this, right or wrong. He later acknowledged that diets are designed differently to take advantage of different metabolic pathways and that applying one to another isn't optimal or even effective.

    Celorza was just incorrect with no justification but, as mentioned in reply to your other post, what eva. Little gets what little gives. Hopefully people will consider the source when making a decision on bulking strategies. Now I'm sure he could give some lessons in powerlifting, or being a worker ant.

    But off I go, the garage is getting cold.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy View Post
    Jiggz implied this, right or wrong. He later acknowledged that diets are designed differently to take advantage of different metabolic pathways and that applying one to another isn't optimal or even effective.

    Celorza was just incorrect with no justification but, as mentioned in reply to your other post, what eva. Little gets what little gives. Hopefully people will consider the source when making a decision on bulking strategies. Now I'm sure he could give some lessons in powerlifting, or being a worker ant.

    But off I go, the garage is getting cold.
    As far as advice on PLing Rodja would be best to hit up for that, I am merely but a neophyte at that for now. Yet my love and passion for more and more power does drive me good enough to keep at it for as long as it takes!

    What's the good of being a big husky animal if a mere "small guy" like me can lift more ! I appreciate the innate benefits of power, in all aspects of life, hence I crave and need it for my hobbies, passion and ambitions!
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    BM you are right that was so sig worthy!
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiveToLift View Post
    BM you are right that was so sig worthy!
    you guys are so cute! lolol
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmftisftw View Post
    you guys are so cute! lolol
    Why thank you.
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    Why so serious? -joker-
    Email me for free prodigy samples
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    Quote Originally Posted by howwedo107 View Post
    Why so serious? -joker-
    You wanna know how I got these scars?
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    Re: Meals


    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post
    You wanna know how I got these scars?
    From all the newbs that hate you and want to hurt you????lol.
  

  
 

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