Meals

[jimbuick]

 

[Rodja]

Ok fine, you win the whole internet Rodja.

It still doesn't make any sense at all to tell a guy struggling to hit his macros to skip meals but you can be the winner. All while you time your nutrients and keep the aminos flowing against the best advice of modern research.

Where did I tell the OP to skip meals and where is this "modern research?"

 

[Celorza]

Because steak is delicious. :hump:

When I want bulking advice from a 146 lb dude, I'll ask for it. I don't know anybody with any appreciable mass that eats 1 or less gram of protein per pound of bodyweight.

Speaking of studies, every study I've read showing proteins effect on building mass doesn't come close to mimicing the effort bodybuilding requires in the gym.

When you break the buck fifty club with all this nonsense, let me know.

"Yeah, but I'm short..." Still small.

Maybe this website is not quite the collection of anabolic minds as it seems, yuppie minds sounds more accurate after this thread.

Lol post up your totals, real please and vids if possible...if I am lb for lb stronger than you maybe you will learn the difference between training for aesthetics and size, and training for strength and powerlifting. Anyhow, I am still waiting for your research and articles proving me wrong, when you post them and prove me wrong (if possible, on this matter I mean) then come to me with your higher than thou attitude...

 

[TexasGuy]

Lol post up your totals, real please and vids if possible...if I am lb for lb stronger than you maybe you will learn the difference between training for aesthetics and size, and training for strength and powerlifting. Anyhow, I am still waiting for your research and articles proving me wrong, when you post them and prove me wrong (if possible, on this matter I mean) then come to me with your higher than thou attitude...

I don't give a piss about your ratios. My lifts are in my profile and no, I won't go to the trouble of planning out max lifts on film for you, sorry. And in B4 "you're probably BSing then"... I realize that gives you room to win some of the internets from Rodja in your mind.

This has turned in to a weird pissing contest though, with two dudes who should seem to know better than to discount methodologies that have been building impressive physiques and aiding strength athletes for decades.

Anyways, here is a link to an article by Dr. John Berardi, I assume you've heard of him. If not, you can learn about him on the site.

No, this is not a peer reviewed study straight out of pubmed, but if you can read an article on the merits of high protein intake from an author much more accomplished and knowledgeable than you with an open mind, you might learn something. Remove the unnecessary spacing.

Well, AM says I have to have 150 posts before I can post links. Google "precision nutrition limit protein to 20 grams per meal?" Or I can try PMing the link if you aren't just being a smartass know it all.

Interestingly, it touches on a handful of talking points in this thread.

 

[Celorza]

I don't give a piss about your ratios. My lifts are in my profile and no, I won't go to the trouble of planning out max lifts on film for you, sorry. And in B4 "you're probably BSing then"... I realize that gives you room to win some of the internets from Rodja in your mind.

This has turned in to a weird pissing contest though, with two dudes who should seem to know better than to discount methodologies that have been building impressive physiques and aiding strength athletes for decades.

Anyways, here is a link to an article by Dr. John Berardi, I assume you've heard of him. If not, you can learn about him on the site.

No, this is not a peer reviewed study straight out of pubmed, but if you can read an article on the merits of high protein intake from an author much more accomplished and knowledgeable than you with an open mind, you might learn something. Remove the unnecessary spacing.

Well, AM says I have to have 150 posts before I can post links. Google "precision nutrition limit protein to 20 grams per meal?" Or I can try PMing the link if you aren't just being a smartass know it all.

Interestingly, it touches on a handful of talking points in this thread.

You started it with the know it all attitude, and brought no real studies to the table. I'll read the article don't worry, for now just know that you come here trying to bash something we respect here in AM...SCIENCE. Say what you want about me, in the end Idc at all, but dude...messing with Rodja, who does nothing but help people? Who actually brings articles to the table, who has a career on this and who is a competitive power lifter? Bro you are kinda out of line. I don't doubt you are a someone in your community, but if you wanna be someone here at least just post up some articles and real science before doing blatant claims...

 

[TexasGuy]

You started it with the know it all attitude, and brought no real studies to the table. I'll read the article don't worry, for now just know that you come here trying to bash something we respect here in AM...SCIENCE. Say what you want about me, in the end Idc at all, but dude...messing with Rodja, who does nothing but help people? Who actually brings articles to the table, who has a career on this and who is a competitive power lifter? Bro you are kinda out of line. I don't doubt you are a someone in your community, but if you wanna be someone here at least just post up some articles and real science before doing blatant claims...

I've said from the beginning IF works, though I doubt its dominance. You have been denying essentially every lifting accomplishment achieved outside of a lifter utilizing IF protocols for peer reviewed science, which I did post.

Rodja came out of left field, off topic and pretty well self contradictory. His own diet utilizes nutrient timing and a steady stream of aminos and he spent two pages tellimg me diets based on nutrient timing are inferior because he doesn't feel enough peer reviewed studies exist to legitimize them.

I'm not going to kowtow bull**** to fit in to a forum. I will read, post and take legitimately helpful advice and insight to heart though.

 

[Rodja]

I've said from the beginning IF works, though I doubt its dominance. You have been denying essentially every lifting accomplishment achieved outside of a lifter utilizing IF protocols for peer reviewed science, which I did post.Rodja came out of left field, off topic and pretty well self contradictory. His own diet utilizes nutrient timing and a steady stream of aminos and he spent two pages tellimg me diets based on nutrient timing are inferior because he doesn't feel enough peer reviewed studies exist to legitimize them.I'm not going to kowtow bull**** to fit in to a forum. I will read, post and take legitimately helpful advice and insight to heart though.

Funny how you somehow inferred my dietary protocol out of all of this as you obviously have ZERO clue as to how I actually eat for my goals. You have been spouting off about how the science supports your position, but have yet to produce a single article showing such. Your etiolated attempts to straw man my position are entirely asinine as you have failed miserably to understand my entire premise that meal frequency has an insignificant impact upon metabolism.

 

[bla55]

Yeah well in that case IF is the fast track to fata$$! :banana:

As I said a few times, I don't discount the research or anecdotal evidence that IF can help people achieve physiques they want, I'm also not going to discount time tested methods. As far as research is concerned, there is basically all of bodybuilding prior to 2010 or so. Call it dogma but sitting down and eating 300 grams of protein in one meal won't have the same effect as eating the same amount over 5-6 meals. Most of it would just turn to poo. But nutrient absorption is another topic so we can't talk about that :no: even though many facets tie in together where nutrition and physiques are concerned.


Speaking of anecdotal, how many fad diets with purported research have turned belly up? Oodles. I have high hopes for IF but as mentioned, at best it will find it's permanent resting place among a smattering of other tried and true diets as time moves on. Plus it totally utilizes nutrient timing and a constant barrage of aminos so I'm still not sure what all the fuss is about. Or how it pertains to the OP.

I do IF, I eat it all in 2 meals a day and I poop way less than when I made 6 meals a day. N=1, but don't see how my "nutrient" absorption has gone down.

 

[Jiigzz]

Yeah well in that case IF is the fast track to fata$$! :banana:

As I said a few times, I don't discount the research or anecdotal evidence that IF can help people achieve physiques they want, I'm also not going to discount time tested methods. As far as research is concerned, there is basically all of bodybuilding prior to 2010 or so. Call it dogma but sitting down and eating 300 grams of protein in one meal won't have the same effect as eating the same amount over 5-6 meals. Most of it would just turn to poo. But nutrient absorption is another topic so we can't talk about that :no: even though many facets tie in together where nutrition and physiques are concerned.


Speaking of anecdotal, how many fad diets with purported research have turned belly up? Oodles. I have high hopes for IF but as mentioned, at best it will find it's permanent resting place among a smattering of other tried and true diets as time moves on. Plus it totally utilizes nutrient timing and a constant barrage of aminos so I'm still not sure what all the fuss is about. Or how it pertains to the OP.

You misinterpret my post; bodybuilding in of itself and the practices taught within the pro community, particulary those referenced inb BB magizines are by no means legitimate sources for you to base your diet off; how can you be certain that they actually practice what they preach? And, had they known about IF or that meal frequency is of no concern, would there results reflect this new approach? Yes, of course 6 meals/ day with a steady stream of aminos works, simply because they are reaching their macronutrient goals. But that is not a means to an end.

http://www.leangains.com/2011/01/better-blood-glucose-with-lower-meal.html

 

[tyga tyga]

Sub'd for ppl ridin coat tails

Finally caught up and what a debate!

.....as you all were...

 

[JudoJosh]

Looks like I missed all the fun

 

[Celorza]

Looks like I missed all the fun

Pretty much.

 

[meathead249]

facepalm* you need breakfast its important so you dont go in a catabolic state im shocked by all answers this every 2 hours eating is so you can fuel your body but if you have problem getting meals just keep trying i had same and i got used to it in end

 

[Lukef2000]

facepalm* you need breakfast its important so you dont go in a catabolic state im shocked by all answers this every 2 hours eating is so you can fuel your body but if you have problem getting meals just keep trying i had same and i got used to it in end

Did you not read some of the above posts that specify studies showing some of these old myths are just that! Have you ever heard of lean gains style dieting or the warrior diet?? I might suggest not being so close minded as there area my ways people diet that all seem to work.

 

[Lukef2000]

Did you not read some of the above posts that specify studies showing some of these old myths are just that! Have you ever heard of lean gains style dieting or the warrior diet?? I might suggest not being so close minded as there area my ways people diet that all seem to work.

*many ways people diet that all seem to work. Damn auto correct lol

 

[TexasGuy]

Did you not read some of the above posts that specify studies showing some of these old myths are just that! Have you ever heard of lean gains style dieting or the warrior diet?? I might suggest not being so close minded as there area my ways people diet that all seem to work.

That whole conversation was off topic though. What became a multi-thread argument was basically that yes, various diets work in their own unique ways. No one was actually disagreeing, well, not in the end. A few from the leangains camp initially put all other diets on the defensive as if leangains is some magic wonder diet like all the rest before it and the diets to come after were and will be purported. We then went down a few tangents that pulled the conversation even further from the issue at hand and spread the argument out in to a largely incoherent mishmash of misapplied ideologies across the boards.

The real, initial problem was people were arguing X diet vs. Y diet on X diets terms.

The OP has a diet of some sort. It requires an intake of macronutrients that he was having trouble downing in a given day. Someone inferred that it would be ok if he just skipped breakfast, which effectively applied X diet methodologies to Y diet application. This is just stupid and in the actual context the studies are useless. They don't apply.

Low Fat/High Carb diets work too if utilized correctly. So do Low Carb/High Fat diets. You sure as **** wouldn't recommend a guy on a low carb diet to eat pasta and rice three or four times a day along with his official diet plan. All the studies showing a high carb diet (comparatively) would benefit from this carb intake would support his pasta but we can deduce that the incorrect application is irrelevent.

Same difference in this thread. If you're having trouble getting a 650 calorie meal down, good luck just waiting a few hours and scarfing 1,300 calories to make up for it, especially when your diet may very well be designed to take advantage of nutrient timing and macro ratio benefits drawing from a TEF scale.

 

[meathead249]

all i saw was someone say skip breakfast but sounded like it got out of hand i agree some types of diets work for diffrent poeple i guess it what poeples goals are to everybody elses

 

[hvactech]

I never eat breakfast, skipping breakfast DOES NOT mean you become catabolic

 

[Sean1332]

agreed with tech. I think breakfast should be treated as any other meal. if I miss lunch, my body doesn't become catabolic

 

[hvactech]

Touche'

 

[Lukef2000]

That whole conversation was off topic though. What became a multi-thread argument was basically that yes, various diets work in their own unique ways. No one was actually disagreeing, well, not in the end. A few from the leangains camp initially put all other diets on the defensive as if leangains is some magic wonder diet like all the rest before it and the diets to come after were and will be purported. We then went down a few tangents that pulled the conversation even further from the issue at hand and spread the argument out in to a largely incoherent mishmash of misapplied ideologies across the boards.

The real, initial problem was people were arguing X diet vs. Y diet on X diets terms.

The OP has a diet of some sort. It requires an intake of macronutrients that he was having trouble downing in a given day. Someone inferred that it would be ok if he just skipped breakfast, which effectively applied X diet methodologies to Y diet application. This is just stupid and in the actual context the studies are useless. They don't apply.

Low Fat/High Carb diets work too if utilized correctly. So do Low Carb/High Fat diets. You sure as **** wouldn't recommend a guy on a low carb diet to eat pasta and rice three or four times a day along with his official diet plan. All the studies showing a high carb diet (comparatively) would benefit from this carb intake would support his pasta but we can deduce that the incorrect application is irrelevent.

Same difference in this thread. If you're having trouble getting a 650 calorie meal down, good luck just waiting a few hours and scarfing 1,300 calories to make up for it, especially when your diet may very well be designed to take advantage of nutrient timing and macro ratio benefits drawing from a TEF scale.

Yes and while I do agree with some thing both parties rambled on about if you look at the post I was replying to the guy said breakfast is a must or you go catabolic.... The reason I brought lean gains and the warrior diet into the conversation was to point out that people don't need to have breakfast, or lunch for that matter. Do you think that people go catabolic after an 8 hour fast? If this was the case then these fasting diets would not be so popular and people wouldn't get the results that they get. Fasting type diets are not for me due to my work schedule but I do utilize the fasted training side of it. Does that mean im catabolic on a daily basis? No. All I was saying is that he should be a bit more open minded as a lot of different methods work. Different strokes for different folks

 

[TexasGuy]

Yes and while I do agree with some thing both parties rambled on about if you look at the post I was replying to the guy said breakfast is a must or you go catabolic.... The reason I brought lean gains and the warrior diet into the conversation was to point out that people don't need to have breakfast, or lunch for that matter. Do you think that people go catabolic after an 8 hour fast? If this was the case then these fasting diets would not be so popular and people wouldn't get the results that they get. Fasting type diets are not for me due to my work schedule but I do utilize the fasted training side of it. Does that mean im catabolic on a daily basis? No. All I was saying is that he should be a bit more open minded as a lot of different methods work. Different strokes for different folks

And as a stand alone opinion yours is fine. Let's not confuse X and Y again is what I'm saying. And catabolism isn't all or nothing. Unless you're running lab panels daily you have no idea if you're catabolic or not. You make up for it later but may be running at 70% efficiency + or - 30 for all you know. I'll take my sure bet on anabolism personally but alas, to each his own. Just food for thought. Not interested in arguing X against Y on Y's premise again. Plus I almost forgot about the recommended bcaa and whey supplementation anyways. A rose by another name...

 

[Lukef2000]

And as a stand alone opinion yours is fine. Let's not confuse X and Y again is what I'm saying. And catabolism isn't all or nothing. Unless you're running lab panels daily you have no idea if you're catabolic or not. You make up for it later but may be running at 70% efficiency + or - 30 for all you know. I'll take my sure bet on anabolism personally but alas, to each his own. Just food for thought. Not interested in arguing X against Y on Y's premise again. Plus I almost forgot about the recommended bcaa and whey supplementation anyways. A rose by another name...

Im not confusing x and y again I was simply stating that you won't go into a catabolic state after fasting for 8 hours or 10 hour or even 20 hours.... I'm not saying anything about x or y diet types I'm saying that just because he's been told to follow x type dieting doesn't mean it's the only way to do things.

 

[Spaniard]

There are recent studies showing protein specifically in two to three hour feedings is advantageous to the bodybuilder.

- Valdez

 

[jimbuick]

There are recent studies showing protein specifically in two to three hour feedings is advantageous to the bodybuilder.

- Valdez

Link?

 

[Spaniard]

Link?

Yea I might fall asleep first lol I think zirred linked it

- Valdez

 

[jimbuick]

Yea I might fall asleep first lol I think zirred linked it

- Valdez

I haven't seen it.

 

[Spaniard]

I haven't seen it.

I just looked I'll find it...later I'm going to bed now. Broncos tomo

- Valdez

 

[TexasGuy]

Im not confusing x and y again I was simply stating that you won't go into a catabolic state after fasting for 8 hours or 10 hour or even 20 hours.... I'm not saying anything about x or y diet types I'm saying that just because he's been told to follow x type dieting doesn't mean it's the only way to do things.

You are suggesting a Y solution to an X problem for the record. OP has trouble hitting certain macros and calories within his allotted time and skipping a meal in his situation is dumb, period. So is diet hopping. See one through within a selected goal period or you will basically not be dieting at all by jumping from strategy to strategy. Diets don't work like buffet lines. Next time he wants to gain, he can investigate alternatives so long as he sticks to which ever chosen methodology until his goal is achieved. Otherwise it goes back to High Fat/Low Carb vs Low Carb/High Fat. Both work but not together.

Back off topic though, I posted an article referencing a number of studies by Layne Norton, I believe it was in this thread but can find it again if not. You may take his interpretations at face value or look up his references, understand them all in tandem on your own and come up with your summary. Just make sure it's accurate.

He shows that regular, frequent meals high in protein do elevate protein synthesis, as do fasting based diets over a significant number of hours, which would seem to negate a need for eating every two or three. However, he was able to show that while in an anabolic state, ingesting protein either by food or supplementation in frequent intervals did spike protein synthesis over and above the elevated rate propagated by a variety of diets, effectively demonstrating that frequent, multiple meals per day is more beneficial than fasting where protein synthesis and essentially anabolism are concerned.

I italicized more because yes, multiple dieting strategies work. The problem I have with IF and the Warrior Diet is that catabolism and anabolism are not black and white issues.

I can't draw pictures here unfortunately but imagine a color scale of black on one end and white on the other, with shades of grey going from darker to lighter between.

Black is catabolic, white is anabolic. You can make gains in the light grey area and you can gain in the darkest of grey. Gaining in the lighter shade lends itself to greater protein synthesis, however. When I'm done lifting, I want my body to be building at as close to 100% optimally as possible. According to the studies used in the article, regular, frequent intake of meals or supplements high in protein allow this to happen given an elevated rate of protein synthesis plus an extra boost for those who do consume food every 3 hours or so.

Just because you may get 10 lbs stronger on the squat every week (or in a longer interval depending on your experience) doesn't mean you are "dialed in" when you could be gaining 15-20 pounds instead. It's a deceptive gain and according to the studies could be better.

And deviating from the black and white world of lab coats to the grey area of real world application, I know when I don't eat 5-6 meals a day, and especially breakfast before my morning lifting sessions, I can not train at the same intensity or recover at the same rate. Training intensity and recovery are like the golden goose to Jack's beanstalk in bodybuilding and limiting (not totally stunting, of course) both is ridiculous. Yeah people say they get used to it but I would like to see an honest outline and breakdown of their routine and intensity. Not what they should be doing, but what actually happens. I just don't see snatches, cleans, heavy deads and presses or high volume of the same at 100%. And we are talking about bulking so your intensity better be high. I realized I just opened a can of worms to purely subjective and defensive bull**** "you don't know me" type arguments but take an honest look.

Anecdotally, the kings of mass building don't utilize IF or Warrior diets, at least not as a staple for bulking which is what this forum is about. You wouldn't tell Kai Greene or Jay Cutler how to bulk any more than you would tell LeBron James how to play basketball. Or maybe you would, I don't know. And yeah, I get that people don't all want to look like that, but if a bulk is your goal you want to gain quality mass as fast as possible, universally. Your upper limit is just lower than theirs. Getting to yours should be done as effectively and efficiently as possible, which, again, is the problem I have with IF and especially Warrior Diets. At least one IF diet, Leangains, recommends whey and bcaa intake between meals while pretending to be a fasting diet. It'll put you farther up the grey scale to white.

 

[Rodja]

LG does NOT promote whey between meals. You've said that over and over yet it is not close to true. Yes, BCAA is recommended, but not whey between meals. Whey can be used as an alternative to BCAA pre-training, but not haphazardly between meals.

No person on this board is competing at the IFBB level and, elephant in the room, copious doses of AAS vastly change the equation on protein synthesis. Using the elite of any sport will not translate to the lay person as we're not programmed in the same manner as them when it comes to talent and genetics. Training and using the same AAS cocktail like Ronnie or Chuck Vogelpohl will not make you into them or even put you in the same league as them. This is the main reason that the applicability of professionals of any sport has little bearing on the overwhelming majority of the population.

To address the IF and intensity (granted n=1 here), while I implemented this particular diet, I added over 200lbs to my total while losing approximately 15-18lbs in a period of about 6 months. The only reason I deviated from it was that my training schedule changed and my bench and squat/deadlift sessions wouldn't end until after my feeding window was open and my geared sessions would take close to 2-3 hours.

 

[TexasGuy]

LG does NOT promote whey between meals. You've said that over and over yet it is not close to true. Yes, BCAA is recommended, but not whey between meals. Whey can be used as an alternative to BCAA pre-training, but not haphazardly between meals.

No person on this board is competing at the IFBB level and, elephant in the room, copious doses of AAS vastly change the equation on protein synthesis. Using the elite of any sport will not translate to the lay person as we're not programmed in the same manner as them when it comes to talent and genetics. Training and using the same AAS cocktail like Ronnie or Chuck Vogelpohl will not make you into them or even put you in the same league as them. This is the main reason that the applicability of professionals of any sport has little bearing on the overwhelming majority of the population.

To address the IF and intensity (granted n=1 here), while I implemented this particular diet, I added over 200lbs to my total while losing approximately 15-18lbs in a period of about 6 months. The only reason I deviated from it was that my training schedule changed and my bench and squat/deadlift sessions wouldn't end until after my feeding window was open and my geared sessions would take close to 2-3 hours.

BCAAs take advantage of the benefits of frequent, regular ingestion of amino acids just like the diets some people seem to hold in contention for lack of research as to the efficacy of said diet. The TEF angle was only one in the discussion of frequency too. It evolved to protein synthesis and essentially became the argument of many that frequent meals are unnecessary all the way around and the use of such a diet is archaic, while leangains minions are frequently ingesting strategic macros (whole protein) and aminos (bcaa) outside their feeding times anyways. Official feeding times carrying the label that is.

I took the whey suggestion from leangains FAQ section but it may have been only pre-workout though this still acknowledges a need for nutrient timing and frequent ingestion of aminos, still contradictory to the argument that a frequent ingestion of aminos isn't effective due to a lack of research. I realize these are general argument points and come from a smattering of people across a few topic threads but it's a ridiculous box to be on as they down protein around the clock or at least as frequently as 5 or 6 times per day between meals and supplementation, especially when that camp seems to believe it doesn't matter when macros are ingested as long as they are. It's a lot of dancing around to eat within a window and then outside of it with supps when you could just break it all down to 5 or 6 meals, have the same macros ingested in the same time frame along with frequent protein intake.

Yes, copious doses of AAS do change the protein synthesis ballgame. That said, if LG and the Warrior Diet were the optimum bulk dieting methodologies, AAS coupled with LG or Warrior would be the "weapon of choice", but it isn't. And yeah, genetics do play a huge role in aesthetics. Muscle belly insertions, fiber types, shape et cetera. Even ugly people grow though and everyone in between. One person on diet X may have a bicep that inserts an inch or two higher than another on the same diet. The fact the longer bicep will look better has no bearing on the diet's efficacy. Furthermore, many people on this board use AAS. There is even a forum for it. If not AAS, pro-hormones. I believe your company sells supplements to ellicit hormonal changes? The general readership is a mixture of naturals, users, beginners, intermediates and a handful of seemingly experts, or at least well versed lifters so sampling for a specific population or excluding one isn't very accurate, except for maybe elite level bodybuilders or powerlifters but you never know. Either way, a diet is a diet for a pro or joe alike.

Congratulations on adding 200lbs to your total. That is significant and a source of accomplishment I'm sure. As an aside, and only for my curiosity, are you natural? Do you use PES products? And, unfortunately without a time machine, nobody will ever know if that time period could've produced a 250 lb gain. Also, while powerlifting and bodybuilding are similar in that we both lift weights, different physiological reactions are the goal for each sport.

Bodybuilding, where bulking traditionally finds it's home, is designed to induce as much muscle damage as possible, where powerlifting largely takes advantage of neural adaptations. There is of course cross over but it's plainly obvious an hour or two of bodybuilding training vs. powerlifting ellicits much different results which can change the ballgame of protein synthesis significantly as well.

We don't have many studies to refer to on this point. The closest measures something like .8 grams of protein per pound of lean mass on a sample tested for powerlifting. Powerlifting /=/ Bodybuilding.

 

[Celorza]

Rojda=3
Rest of the bro-scientists=0

And thanks for the laugh of the day.

 

[Rodja]

BCAAs take advantage of the benefits of frequent, regular ingestion of amino acids just like the diets some people seem to hold in contention for lack of research as to the efficacy of said diet. The TEF angle was only one in the discussion of frequency too. It evolved to protein synthesis and essentially became the argument of many that frequent meals are unnecessary all the way around and the use of such a diet is archaic, while leangains minions are frequently ingesting strategic macros (whole protein) and aminos (bcaa) outside their feeding times anyways. Official feeding times carrying the label that is.

I took the whey suggestion from leangains FAQ section but it may have been only pre-workout though this still acknowledges a need for nutrient timing and frequent ingestion of aminos, still contradictory to the argument that a frequent ingestion of aminos isn't effective due to a lack of research. I realize these are general argument points and come from a smattering of people across a few topic threads but it's a ridiculous box to be on as they down protein around the clock or at least as frequently as 5 or 6 times per day between meals and supplementation, especially when that camp seems to believe it doesn't matter when macros are ingested as long as they are. It's a lot of dancing around to eat within a window and then outside of it with supps when you could just break it all down to 5 or 6 meals, have the same macros ingested in the same time frame along with frequent protein intake.

Yes, copious doses of AAS do change the protein synthesis ballgame. That said, if LG and the Warrior Diet were the optimum bulk dieting methodologies, AAS coupled with LG or Warrior would be the "weapon of choice", but it isn't. And yeah, genetics do play a huge role in aesthetics. Muscle belly insertions, fiber types, shape et cetera. Even ugly people grow though and everyone in between. One person on diet X may have a bicep that inserts an inch or two higher than another on the same diet. The fact the longer bicep will look better has no bearing on the diet's efficacy. Furthermore, many people on this board use AAS. There is even a forum for it. If not AAS, pro-hormones. I believe your company sells supplements to ellicit hormonal changes? The general readership is a mixture of naturals, users, beginners, intermediates and a handful of seemingly experts, or at least well versed lifters so sampling for a specific population or excluding one isn't very accurate, except for maybe elite level bodybuilders or powerlifters but you never know. Either way, a diet is a diet for a pro or joe alike.

Congratulations on adding 200lbs to your total. That is significant and a source of accomplishment I'm sure. As an aside, and only for my curiosity, are you natural? Do you use PES products? And, unfortunately without a time machine, nobody will ever know if that time period could've produced a 250 lb gain. Also, while powerlifting and bodybuilding are similar in that we both lift weights, different physiological reactions are the goal for each sport.

Bodybuilding, where bulking traditionally finds it's home, is designed to induce as much muscle damage as possible, where powerlifting largely takes advantage of neural adaptations. There is of course cross over but it's plainly obvious an hour or two of bodybuilding training vs. powerlifting ellicits much different results which can change the ballgame of protein synthesis significantly as well.

We don't have many studies to refer to on this point. The closest measures something like .8 grams of protein per pound of lean mass on a sample tested for powerlifting. Powerlifting /=/ Bodybuilding.

And you say that I ramble...

There's too much crap in this post to even take the time to address other than your red herrings.

 

[TexasGuy]

And you say that I ramble...

There's too much crap in this post to even take the time to address other than your red herrings.

Ok.

 

[bla55]

AAS =/= natural.

LG, Doggcrapp, Warrior Diet, etc, are designed for the person that is not utilizing steroids. You add any PEDs and everything goes up in the air. A person going on a natural lean bulk would never add +1500 calories to their maintenance level; a person who has a cocktail of Winstrol, D-Bol, etc, etc, can very well manage to go that route and still continue to have it being a "lean bulk". That's the purpose of steroids - to allow you to make gains you wouldn't naturally make. In the same coin, steroids will also allow you to "overtrain" and get away with it while still making gains, therefore, not quite relevant to the discussion.

 

[TexasGuy]

"I can't apply inferred knowledge from a picture book but I know how to pick a popular forum member and ride his opinion coat tails while ingesting macros 5-6 times per day and then slamming the notion of ingesting macros 5-6 times per day. Oh yah, and back to my original post in this thread; if you can't get your macros in, just skip them. It's cool." - Celorza

And thanks for the laughs. I still want you to let me know when you break the buck fifty club in the bulking forum with all this super magic diet knowledge that makes all of bodybuilding before it a unicorn or something.

 

[TexasGuy]

AAS =/= natural.

LG, Doggcrapp, Warrior Diet, etc, are designed for the person that is not utilizing steroids. You add any PEDs and everything goes up in the air. A person going on a natural lean bulk would never add +1500 calories to their maintenance level; a person who has a cocktail of Winstrol, D-Bol, etc, etc, can very well manage to go that route and still continue to have it being a "lean bulk". That's the purpose of steroids - to allow you to make gains you wouldn't naturally make. In the same coin, steroids will also allow you to "overtrain" and get away with it while still making gains, therefore, not quite relevant to the discussion.

This completely nullifies the argument that it doesn't matter when you get them in as long as you get them in, steroids or not. Steroids are a tool alongside training and diet. They are a multiplier. If the warrior diet is optimum without, it is accelerated with.

 

[Celorza]

"I can't apply inferred knowledge from a picture book but I know how to pick a popular forum member and ride his opinion coat tails while ingesting macros 5-6 times per day and then slamming the notion of ingesting macros 5-6 times per day. Oh yah, and back to my original post in this thread; if you can't get your macros in, just skip them. It's cool." - Celorza

And thanks for the laughs. I still want you to let me know when you break the buck fifty club in the bulking forum with all this super magic diet knowledge that makes all of bodybuilding before it a unicorn or something.

Lol I'm still waiting for you to get a brain and/or understand different goals in life are possible. I do not care about being a freak-show that can't wipe it's own ass. Oh and forgive me...but I have FAR more stuff going in my life than being under 10% BF (which I usually am anyway...).

Now as far as waiting comes...I'm waiting for you to try and prove your totals in strength with me I am still sure I am stronger than you.

 

[bla55]

This completely nullifies the argument that it doesn't matter when you get them in as long as you get them in, steroids or not. Steroids are a tool alongside training and diet. They are a multiplier. If the warrior diet is optimum without, it is accelerated with.

Please explain how this nullifies the argument? And steroids are a tool, a multiplier, that are to be taken COMPLETELY out of the picture when deciding whether a diet for REGULAR people searching for NATURAL gains.

It would be like me telling you to bulk the sh1t up, eat 6k calories above your maintenance a day and work your a$$ off in the gym, when you're done, just go and get liposuction done. I mean, it is a tool alongside training and diet as well, right?

 

[jimbuick]

Brb logging into bb.com to get away from pointless drama.

"You're tiny brah"


"I bet I lift more lb for lb brah"

Stop being a bunch of babies. You don't agree, get over it and move on.

 

[Celorza]

Brb logging into bb.com to get away from pointless drama.

"You're tiny brah"


"I bet I lift more lb for lb brah"

Stop being a bunch of babies. You don't agree, get over it and move on.

Stop being the meddling bitch if you don't like it. Just saying !

 

[Spaniard]

Stop being the meddling bitch if you don't like it. Just saying !

Everyone chill out... Good lord

- Valdez

 

[bmftisftw]

Stop being the meddling bitch if you don't like it. Just saying !

seriously?

 

[Celorza]

seriously?

¬¬' no one gets the annoying relationship Jim and I have, he talks to me like that, I do too...not being serious with him, neither is he sometimes when he dizzes me.

Question is to you: Seriously?

 

[jimbuick]

¬¬' no one gets the annoying relationship Jim and I have, he talks to me like that, I do too...not being serious with him, neither is he sometimes when he dizzes me.

Question is to you: Seriously?

Idk cel, that was a little beyond what generally goes on.

 

[TexasGuy]

Lol I'm still waiting for you to get a brain and/or understand different goals in life are possible. I do not care about being a freak-show that can't wipe it's own ass. Oh and forgive me...but I have FAR more stuff going in my life than being under 10% BF (which I usually am anyway...).

Now as far as waiting comes...I'm waiting for you to try and prove your totals in strength with me I am still sure I am stronger than you.

LOL. Talk about a meddling bitch. You can give all the neg rep points you want but I'm going to let you in on a secret, internet points don't mean anything. Real world application and results do. You are a very, very, very little dude in a bulking forum giving bulking advice, kind of. For all the studies you allegedly can read, you don't have a leg to stand on because application is another story altogether and you haven't done it.

You instead try to change the subject and suggest a dude just skip some of his needed macros and then deduct points from people who call you out on that.

All the internet points in the world won't make that advice in context smart. And again, I don't give a **** what your totals are. We are after different physiological effects, and yours clearly isn't hypertrophy.

After football, bodybuilding became my goal and I would bet at the peak of my strength training I was stronger than you,even if I'm not still. Faster, more agile and more flexible with better reflexes too. You may have a ratio on me either now or then but hey, to go off topic (to the second power?) and briefly myself, I bet I was much more talented at applying my strength to an actual endeavour outside of just building it. And I'll take that over being a trivial little internet bitch the size of a 7th grader all day, along a physique you don't even know how to achieve, although you'll argue methodologies to such a physique as if you do.

Now I typically prefer not to go in to the personal realm but it can be fun when it's brought to me. You sir, are a little bitch who wouldn't know how to bulk out of a baby crib and are talking out of your ass where results are concerned. All the studies in the world won't make your bs advice to the OP of this thread applicaple. Feel free to deduct away though, I heard it can add a few pounds during a fast. Hell, if I knew how I'd transfer all my points to you. They might make up for your body!


Now getting back on topic, please tell the OP who needs to meet X amount of calories per day and is having trouble doing so how skipping some of them will help him, in his chosen diet, achieve his goal?

Let's see whose actually deserving of +/- reputation points where applicaple advice is concerned, shall we? Or set me straight as a newb, are points intended for cattiness exhibited by posters?

 

[LiveToLift]

¬¬' no one gets the annoying relationship Jim and I have, he talks to me like that, I do too...not being serious with him, neither is he sometimes when he dizzes me.

Question is to you: Seriously?

Lmao. Seriously?

 

[LiveToLift]

Idk cel, that was a little beyond what generally goes on.

:big ok:

 

[jimbuick]

LOL. Talk about a meddling bitch. You can give all the neg rep points you want but I'm going to let you in on a secret, internet points don't mean anything. Real world application and results do. You are a very, very, very little dude in a bulking forum giving bulking advice, kind of. For all the studies you allegedly can read, you don't have a leg to stand on because application is another story altogether and you haven't done it.

You instead try to change the subject and suggest a dude just skip some of his needed macros and then deduct points from people who call you out on that.

All the internet points in the world won't make that advice in context smart. And again, I don't give a **** what your totals are. We are after different physiological effects, and yours clearly isn't hypertrophy.

After football, bodybuilding became my goal and I would bet at the peak of my strength training I was stronger than you,even if I'm not still. Faster, more agile and more flexible with better reflexes too. You may have a ratio on me either now or then but hey, to go off topic (to the second power?) and briefly myself, I bet I was much more talented at applying my strength to an actual endeavour outside of just building it. And I'll take that over being a trivial little internet bitch the size of a 7th grader all day, along a physique you don't even know how to achieve, although you'll argue methodologies to such a physique as if you do.

Now I typically prefer not to go in to the personal realm but it can be fun when it's brought to me. You sir, are a little bitch who wouldn't know how to bulk out of a baby crib and are talking out of your ass where results are concerned. All the studies in the world won't make your bs advice to the OP of this thread applicaple. Feel free to deduct away though, I heard it can add a few pounds during a fast. Hell, if I knew how I'd transfer all my points to you. They might make up for your body!

Now getting back on topic, please tell the OP who needs to meet X amount of calories per day and is having trouble doing so how skipping some of them will help him, in his chosen diet, achieve his goal?

Let's see whose actually deserving of +/- reputation points where applicaple advice is concerned, shall we? Or set me straight as a newb, are points intended for cattiness exhibited by posters?

Bro just let it go.

 

[bmftisftw]

Now getting back on topic, please tell the OP who needs to meet X amount of calories per day and is having trouble doing so how skipping some of them will help him, in his chosen diet, achieve his goal?

Let's see whose actually deserving of +/- reputation points where applicaple advice is concerned, shall we? Or set me straight as a newb, are points intended for cattiness exhibited by posters?

its already been covered by hvac and others haha just add healthy fats like natty pb and a couple glasses of milk should be too easy to get those extra cals!!