Meals

[TexasGuy]

I'm going to call my chest crack Celorza from now on. It'll bring a whole new meaning to Coleman's "light weight" mental prep for heavy bench day.

Insert smiley face

 

[Celorza]

I'm going to call my chest crack Celorza from now on. It'll bring a whole new meaning to Coleman's "light weight" mental prep for heavy bench day.

Insert smiley face

Lol seems legit, I'll call my first warm up set for Sumo TexasGuy since your BW seems pretty much the weight of my warm ups.

 

[TexasGuy]

Lol seems legit, I'll call my first warm up set for Sumo TexasGuy since your BW seems pretty much the weight of my warm ups.

Haha, still bringing powerlifting to the bulk forum, I like your style.

As I mentioned earlier, my current lifts are in my profile. You can check if you want though i feel it bears repeating that after football my focus switched from athleticism and applied strength to creating a set of wheels each the size of your body. And my interest is here, in the bulking forum. Where I don't tell people on Diet Plan X they should cross with Diet Plan Y for reasons that shouldn't need to be explained.

 

[Celorza]

Haha, still bringing powerlifting to the bulk forum, I like your style.

As I mentioned earlier, my current lifts are in my profile. You can check if you want though i feel it bears repeating that after football my focus switched from athleticism and applied strength to creating a set of wheels each the size of your body. And my interest is here, in the bulking forum. Where I don't tell people on Diet Plan X they should cross with Diet Plan Y for reasons that shouldn't need to be explained.

And here you act like a nincompoop if you think that caloric surplus has no place in powerlifting...while we don't focus on weight gain we do need to at times to get bigger totals...Bulking is not only to be the size of a fridge...

 

[TexasGuy]

And here you act like a nincompoop if you think that caloric surplus has no place in powerlifting...while we don't focus on weight gain we do need to at times to get bigger totals...Bulking is not only to be the size of a fridge...

Just don't get too big there, Chestcrack.

 

[Celorza]

Just don't get too big there, Chestcrack.

Why should I? Fridge

 

[Lukef2000]

Naww how cute! You two even have nicknames for each other now

 

[bla55]

My internets is bigger than all of yours!

And screw diets, just get a liposuction after a ridiculous dirty bulk!

P.S.: since you are asking what a powerlifter, who doesn't want to get to big, is doing at the bulking forum, here's one for you: what is a steroid proponent doing on a nutrition forum? As far as I know nutrition has to do with food and steroids have a place of their own in this board.

 

[TexasGuy]

The same that helped me bulk from 125.6lbs to 150 in around 6 months without much change in body fat, and it also took my total up around 100lbs...I merely said skip breakfast and you fired at me, I didn't say skip the macro's from the breakfast. Being IF has nothing wrong, else Chris Duffin wouldn't be the powerful beast he is.

Good morning. And I'm calling bull****. I believe you added 100 pounds to a powerlifting total in six months. I believe you could've added 25 pounds of allegedly lean mass in 6 months on newbie gains but 25 pounds of lean tissue is quite a bit in that time span, even for a newb. You would have had to have your training really dialed in and if you training had been dialed in enough to add 25 lean pounds, between the big three, that training should have given you much greater strength gains than 100 pounds.

Figure 30 pounds on the squat, 40 on the deadlift and 30 on the bench press... that's pretty weak in six months for a guy packing on a legitimate pound of muscle per week. Maybe you were measuring with a scale or one of those hand held thingings with a deviation of plus or minus like 30 percent?

Also, would you tell a guy on a low carb diet to merely add rice to lunch and dinner if he's having trouble getting chicken breasts and olive oil down?

 

[TexasGuy]

My internets is bigger than all of yours!

And screw diets, just get a liposuction after a ridiculous dirty bulk!

P.S.: since you are asking what a powerlifter, who doesn't want to get to big, is doing at the bulking forum, here's one for you: what is a steroid proponent doing on a nutrition forum? As far as I know nutrition has to do with food and steroids have a place of their own in this board.

I'm not a steroid proponent...

Either way, those boards discuss various stacks, protocols et cetera. Bulking is still bulking. Steroids just make all the discussions that happen here faster and easier. But I don't use them and wouldn't recommend anyone to outside of someone with a legitimate shot at a pro sports contract who needs a little boost in tryouts or aging men using TRT through a doctor.

 

[Celorza]

Good morning. And I'm calling bull****. I believe you added 100 pounds to a powerlifting total in six months. I believe you could've added 25 pounds of allegedly lean mass in 6 months on newbie gains but 25 pounds of lean tissue is quite a bit in that time span, even for a newb. You would have had to have your training really dialed in and if you training had been dialed in enough to add 25 lean pounds, between the big three, that training should have given you much greater strength gains than 100 pounds.

Figure 30 pounds on the squat, 40 on the deadlift and 30 on the bench press... that's pretty weak in six months for a guy packing on a legitimate pound of muscle per week. Maybe you were measuring with a scale or one of those hand held thingings with a deviation of plus or minus like 30 percent?

Also, would you tell a guy on a low carb diet to merely add rice to lunch and dinner if he's having trouble getting chicken breasts and olive oil down?

Lets see, weight gain wasn't 100% lean or of lean tissue completely. Like I said not much change in bf, 3% for me I don't mind , I was way too low actually. Gains have been on muscle mass, glycogen stores and water. Also you fail to look at the whole picture of powerlifting, I am not geared at all I am in a raw division, I haven't used AAS and also, an increase of 100lbs to a total in 6 months , I'd say it's a win.

It would mean that roughly (a bit more actually) 5lbs were increasing in all my lifts on average, when it actually shifter itself heavily on my dead and squat lately...bench is odd for me. However what did you expect? I was using 5/3/1 with periodization assistance schemes...do you have any idea how much you are to increase the 1RM and how often on 5/3/1?

 

[hvactech]

Why should I? Fridge

cause you'll have to trade your extra small shirts in for mediums and clothes get expensive! :lmao:

 

[Celorza]

cause you'll have to trade your extra small shirts in for mediums and clothes get expensive! :lmao:

I mean , why should I get big or too big lol

But good point though!

 

[vidapreta]

I mean , why should I get big or too big lol

So you can be a Bouncer at the Club..

Or even Mr.Olympia..

 

[blueblood]

I'm kinda new here, just spent the last 45 min reading this thread..... Made me skip breakfast...... DAMN IT AM!

 

[TexasGuy]

Lets see, weight gain wasn't 100% lean or of lean tissue completely. Like I said not much change in bf, 3% for me I don't mind , I was way too low actually. Gains have been on muscle mass, glycogen stores and water. Also you fail to look at the whole picture of powerlifting, I am not geared at all I am in a raw division, I haven't used AAS and also, an increase of 100lbs to a total in 6 months , I'd say it's a win.

It would mean that roughly (a bit more actually) 5lbs were increasing in all my lifts on average, when it actually shifter itself heavily on my dead and squat lately...bench is odd for me. However what did you expect? I was using 5/3/1 with periodization assistance schemes...do you have any idea how much you are to increase the 1RM and how often on 5/3/1?

So now we are talking about maybe ten pounds of muscle in a six month period, which is pretty weak. You should be reading the bulk forum, not giving advice in it. And you are making leangains look like ****, ftr.

Congrats adding 100 natty pounds to yout total. It would be expected in a six month period and you clearly did what needed to be done but it sure as **** isn't brag worthy, chestcrack.

 

[Rodja]

So now we are talking about maybe ten pounds of muscle in a six month period, which is pretty weak. You should be reading the bulk forum, not giving advice in it. And you are making leangains look like ****, ftr.

Congrats adding 100 natty pounds to yout total. It would be expected in a six month period and you clearly did what needed to be done but it sure as **** isn't brag worthy, chestcrack.

Any points that you may have made along the way have been severely degraded by your childish bantering. I already knew that logical arguments weren't your forte, but, for someone that surely try to say you weren't going to get involved in a pissing contest, you sure as hell have been going against your own words. Didn't you say you were done with this thread about 5 pages ago?

 

[Celorza]

Any points that you may have made along the way have been severely degraded by your childish bantering. I already knew that logical arguments weren't your forte, but, for someone that surely try to say you weren't going to get involved in a pissing contest, you sure as hell have been going against your own words. Didn't you say you were done with this thread about 5 pages ago?

Not to mention that he fails to regard the fact that even more advanced and experienced lifters barely put up 10-15 lbs a year of quality lean muscle mass...Aw well, we tried bro, and I also failed into his category and ended up in a pissing contest ¬¬'.

 

[LiveToLift]

Not to mention that he fails to regard the fact that even more advanced and experienced lifters barely put up 10-15 lbs a year of quality lean muscle mass...Aw well, we tried bro, and I also failed into his category and ended up in a pissing contest ¬¬'.

This is true but it is not very difficult at all for first year lifters. Do have to remember that.

 

[TexasGuy]

Any points that you may have made along the way have been severely degraded by your childish bantering. I already knew that logical arguments weren't your forte, but, for someone that surely try to say you weren't going to get involved in a pissing contest, you sure as hell have been going against your own words. Didn't you say you were done with this thread about 5 pages ago?

I still want to know if your leangains were natural or if you use prohormones, test boosting supplements or steroids. Do you use PES products?

Or why it's a good idea for some people to slam ingesting nutrients 5-6 times per day while they ingest nutrients 5-6 times per day but call half of them a fast.

Or how steroids nullify one diet for another when it shouldn't matter according to some when macros are ingested as long as they are.

Or why people incessently compare the nutritional needs of bodybuilding and powerlifting as the same when they clearly know each training style induces completely different physiological responses.

And all the other evidently super logical bull**** that's been largely ignored for the sake of taking the conversation on a twist out of context or making personal attacks or snarky comments while altogether ignoring the content of the discussion.

With a lack of double blind, controlled studies on protein synthesis on bodybuilders it's hilarious to watch people step on an invisible soap box and throw the importance of studies around when there isn't one to support their criticism. There is no logic to ignoring such wide reaching, consistent results the frequent meal, high protein diet plans at the center of bodybuilding provide and always have provided.

The logical thing to do would be to default to the next best evidence for efficacy, empirical evidence. It is absolutely not logical to just act like the fact a specific diet on a specific population is lost in the twighlight zone because a university lab has not studied it explicitly.

And yeah, I did respond to chestcrack in kind. Probably shouldn't have but for the record I didn't deduct his internet points for making whimsical comments in a topic he doesn't know anything about while parading around like some kind of smart ass, worker ant hero. It's a real shame points don't actually indicate knowledge but some kind of web politics. It could be very misleading to a newb here who also happens to be a newb in the gym.

We have results and we have dogma. I will logically take results, all day.

 

[R3ACTION]

This is true but it is not very difficult at all for first year lifters. Do have to remember that.

I'd have to agree with you on this Dr. Puff.

 

[LiveToLift]

I'd have to agree with you on this Dr. Puff.

Seriously though, my first 6 months back lifting I went from 142 to 158 and actually lost a percent or 2 of body fat. This was all while diet was not dialed in and training was not to the level it is now. When you are that small for your height you can add weight with out even knowing what the hell you are doing. If I remember right the pic of cel at 124 or whatever had him so depleted that a glass of water would have easily pushed him over 130.

 

[TexasGuy]

Not to mention that he fails to regard the fact that even more advanced and experienced lifters barely put up 10-15 lbs a year of quality lean muscle mass...Aw well, we tried bro, and I also failed into his category and ended up in a pissing contest ¬¬'.

I was talking to you, not an experienced bodybuilder. You were a 125 pound dude by your own admission and I clearly mentioned newb gains in my reply to you. Not only that, you've not even reached the upper limit of your natural capacity and never will as you don't want to outgrow your training diaper. You are not in the advanced category.

It's become my understanding pissing contests are your forte, as well as using internet points politically. Trivial and pissing in the wind. Cool story though.

 

[Celorza]

I was talking to you, not an experienced bodybuilder. You were a 125 pound dude by your own admission and I clearly mentioned newb gains in my reply to you.

It's become my understanding pissing contests are your forte, as well as using internet points politically. Trivial and pissing in the wind. Cool story though.

I am not a bodybuilder lol , neither do I wanna be , sorry brah...but being a freak show ain't my thing.

 

[R3ACTION]

 

[Danb2285]

<img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=72402"/>

That's foul dude I'm outta the trio...eat a hot pocket or something DAMN

 

[bla55]

Can we please keep rambling to a minimum when posting? It gets so annoying to read something that just keeps hitting the same key over and over again and not responding to the topics, just answering questions with questions.

 

[LiveToLift]

Can we please keep rambling to a minimum when posting? It gets so annoying to read something that just keeps hitting the same key over and over again and not responding to the topics, just answering questions with questions.

Boo!!!! Your no fun.

 

[R3ACTION]

Can we please keep rambling to a minimum when posting? It gets so annoying to read something that just keeps hitting the same key over and over again and not responding to the topics, just answering questions with questions.

Wait a minute, there was a legitimate question?

 

[R3ACTION]

That's foul dude I'm outta the trio...eat a hot pocket or something DAMN

Sorry to let you down brother.

 

[Piston Honda]

Do Pop Tarts count as breakfast?

 

[Danb2285]

Do Pop Tarts count as breakfast?

Breakfast, lunch and dinner...obviously. Now enough with absurd questions like this

 

[R3ACTION]

Breakfast, lunch and dinner...obviously. Now enough with absurd questions like this

You shut your whore mouth!

 

[bmftisftw]

You shut your whore mouth!

You're a slut Nathaniel does Jeff know about your escapades?!

 

[bmftisftw]

That's foul dude I'm outta the trio...eat a hot pocket or something DAMN

That's Christian bale lol before the batman movies.. I believe that movie was called the engineer or something like that.. Dunno

 

[R3ACTION]

That's Christian bale lol before the batman movies.. I believe that movie was called the engineer or something like that.. Dunno

Its from the machinist.

 

[R3ACTION]

You're a slut Nathaniel does Jeff know about your escapades?!

That's my government name!

 

[bmftisftw]

That's my government name!

Well now you have stalkers !!!

 

[TexasGuy]

I am not a bodybuilder lol , neither do I wanna be , sorry brah...but being a freak show ain't my thing.

Are you a troll?

I'm responding to your comment about my not regarding advanced gains when I was talking to you about your gains, while you were gaining, before your "subconcious mindset" told you not to get "too big" because you would look like a refrigerator and you're already stronger than a 6 foot, relatively lean (beach bod) 240 pound guy (legitimately lean at 225 or so) with 15+ years experience lifting anyways.

Either you are a true genetic freak or an ignorant yet "know it all" noob who has read just enough to make fly by one liners that kinda, sorta make sense until you examine them in context and then instead of follow the conversation you start, you take people down some weird rabbit hole of CelorzaLand, where you then play the victim when you can't even keep that up.

The bull**** disparities between your lifting totals and added lean mass "without much bodyfat" in a given beginner period, then the backsliding to water and glycogen, then the idea that somehow advanced limitations apply to you...

Either you are flat out looking for a rise from people or you read more than you lift and are trying to write a book report on what you've learned while pretending to have some kind of lifting results and are failing at it as you are applying tidbits of training from all over the board to one single brag that doesn't even make any real world sense.

I'm not even going to try and imagine what kind of delusional conclusions your quest for power "in all aspects of life" has led you to. Collectively they could be a Tim Burton movie, I have no doubt.

 

[TexasGuy]

Can we please keep rambling to a minimum when posting? It gets so annoying to read something that just keeps hitting the same key over and over again and not responding to the topics, just answering questions with questions.

Maybe because the original questions don't have a legitimate premise so the follow ups are setting one?

Why, if leangains and warrior are optimal natural diets, are they trash on steroids when you believe it doesn't matter when a person eats his quota as long as he does?

To use your example, 6,000 calories = 6,000 calories and they will have the same effect on your physique whether you eat them across 5-6 meals, three meals or one meal. But if you're on steroids, 6,000 calories does not equal 6,000 calories on all diets. 6,000 only equals 6,000 sometimes. When, how so and why?

I can't asnwer someone asking me why grass is black, because it's not. There is no answer. Instead I would ask them why they would describe grass as black to begin with.

 

[TexasGuy]

Speaking of questions, I do have a couple:

1) Can someone explain to me the significance of reputation points? I realize they play an integral role in relations around the boards but what are they, what do they do?

2) What does the designation of Company Representitive mean? I get that they promote a company product line but are they actually employed sales reps, good customers receiving some kind of discount for waving the flag or something else altogether?

 

[jimbuick]

Speaking of questions, I do have a couple:

1) Can someone explain to me the significance of reputation points? I realize they play an integral role in relations around the boards but what are they, what do they do?

2) What does the designation of Company Representitive mean? I get that they promote a company product line but are they actually employed sales reps, good customers receiving some kind of discount for waving the flag or something else altogether?

Rep points do nothing. They are solely for relations on the boards. Generally people with higher Rep power have shown themselves to.be helpful and knowledgeable and assist other members when they have questions.

Company reps are people that have shown to be knowledgeable and because of this have been chosen by a company to represent them and help others. They answer questions regarding training, nutrition, and supplementation. Specifically those related to the company they represent. They are employed, generally they recieve product for free or monetary compensation for their ervices.

 

[bla55]

Maybe because the original questions don't have a legitimate premise so the follow ups are setting one?

Why, if leangains and warrior are optimal natural diets, are they trash on steroids when you believe it doesn't matter when a person eats his quota as long as he does?

To use your example, 6,000 calories = 6,000 calories and they will have the same effect on your physique whether you eat them across 5-6 meals, three meals or one meal. But if you're on steroids, 6,000 calories does not equal 6,000 calories on all diets. 6,000 only equals 6,000 sometimes. When, how so and why?

I can't asnwer someone asking me why grass is black, because it's not. There is no answer. Instead I would ask them why they would describe grass as black to begin with.

Because steroids completely alter the scenario of everything, including but not limited to: nutrients utilization, muscle recovery, calorie consumption, muscle strength, etc. A diet that is developed to be utilized under a specific scenario won't necessarily be optimal under another. Easy and simple explanation: IF starts from the premise that your body will be very insulin deficient, highly catabolic and glycogen free in the mornings / early afternoons. It also promotes big spikes of insulin, glycogen and decrease in cortisol later in the afternoon. That's the diet's premise and ground needed for it to work as designed. If someone is taking an anabolic that will trigger an insulin response early in the morning, or that will not allow for glycogen reserves to deplete, or any other way that steroids will affect your balance, the diet will not follow its own guidelines and therefore not be optimal.

Simple as that.

A ketogenic diet thrives in an environment that is glycogen free and with no sugar in the bloodstream, if one is to add outside sources that will cause unnatural spikes of these, the body will never produce Ketosterones, and therefore, the diet goes down the drain.

Workout regimes also change in the presence of steroids as muscle recovery happens faster, allowing for people to do more sets and workout more often; under standard conditions, that person would be overtraining, but with the use of AAS that is no longer the case.

All in all to sum it up, use of AAS =/= a control group environment and therefore holds no ground in a nutrition discussion as everything will be specific to the steroid being utilized, how it reacts and its particular peculiarities. Can we drop this now or will you keep beating this dead horse?

 

[TexasGuy]

Because steroids completely alter the scenario of everything, including but not limited to: nutrients utilization, muscle recovery, calorie consumption, muscle strength, etc. A diet that is developed to be utilized under a specific scenario won't necessarily be optimal under another. Easy and simple explanation: IF starts from the premise that your body will be very insulin deficient, highly catabolic and glycogen free in the mornings / early afternoons. It also promotes big spikes of insulin, glycogen and decrease in cortisol later in the afternoon. That's the diet's premise and ground needed for it to work as designed. If someone is taking an anabolic that will trigger an insulin response early in the morning, or that will not allow for glycogen reserves to deplete, or any other way that steroids will affect your balance, the diet will not follow its own guidelines and therefore not be optimal.

Simple as that.

A ketogenic diet thrives in an environment that is glycogen free and with no sugar in the bloodstream, if one is to add outside sources that will cause unnatural spikes of these, the body will never produce Ketosterones, and therefore, the diet goes down the drain.

Workout regimes also change in the presence of steroids as muscle recovery happens faster, allowing for people to do more sets and workout more often; under standard conditions, that person would be overtraining, but with the use of AAS that is no longer the case.

All in all to sum it up, use of AAS =/= a control group environment and therefore holds no ground in a nutrition discussion as everything will be specific to the steroid being utilized, how it reacts and its particular peculiarities. Can we drop this now or will you keep beating this dead horse?

This certainly is a strong response, however "steroids" are comprised of multiple compounds, each having various effects on the body, kinda like diets. Picking one effect of one group of compounds and using it to sweepingly describe all of steroids and how they would interact with leangains is a false premise and leaves a can of worms open for literally thousands of arguments. Maybe millions as each compound and then stack is argued against each diet, like some kind of meathead tessellation or something.

What I do find interesting is that in this post you are plain as day saying that nutrient timing, selection and intake protocols in general are important factors to consider in a diet, where you have previously suggested it doesn't matter when food is consumed as long as it is and inferred that protein synthesis can not be manipulated above certain levels by ingesting protein frequently (referencing Layne Norton's work referencing studies showing, in fact, this is the case), all of which brings me back to the initial point of the last eight or so pages of this thread.

Don't suggest to the OP he should skip a meal when his diet plan doesn't call for it. Applying X protocols to Y diet is a recipe for failure.

I think you just did put the dead horse to rest, even if inadvertently.




Anyways, happy new years. I'm off to pick up a pretty little thing and get my penis kissed at midnight.

 

[Piston Honda]

What will be that guy's name?

 

[jimbuick]

What will be that guy's name?

 

[Rodja]

I still want to know if your leangains were natural or if you use prohormones, test boosting supplements or steroids. Do you use PES products?

Irrelevant to this discussion.

Or why it's a good idea for some people to slam ingesting nutrients 5-6 times per day while they ingest nutrients 5-6 times per day but call half of them a fast.

Keep reading more about LG before spouting off misinformation.

Or how steroids nullify one diet for another when it shouldn't matter according to some when macros are ingested as long as they are.

If you don't undertand the efficacy of AAS on gene transcription, protein synthesis, nutrient repartitioning, and how this changes EVERYTHING, then you should not be making recommendations.

Or why people incessently compare the nutritional needs of bodybuilding and powerlifting as the same when they clearly know each training style induces completely different physiological responses.

While there are differences, there is much crossover between the two. I could counter with why you adhere to protein recommendations that are based off of Olympic lifters, but I can see the similarities amongst the groups.

And all the other evidently super logical bull**** that's been largely ignored for the sake of taking the conversation on a twist out of context or making personal attacks or snarky comments while altogether ignoring the content of the discussion.

Actually, you're the one that has filled the thread with red herring and ad hominem.

With a lack of double blind, controlled studies on protein synthesis on bodybuilders it's hilarious to watch people step on an invisible soap box and throw the importance of studies around when there isn't one to support their criticism. There is no logic to ignoring such wide reaching, consistent results the frequent meal, high protein diet plans at the center of bodybuilding provide and always have provided.

There also isn't anything to support your position and there is this little thing called burden of proof that lies upon the original claim. In this case, that lies on your shoulders.

The logical thing to do would be to default to the next best evidence for efficacy, empirical evidence. It is absolutely not logical to just act like the fact a specific diet on a specific population is lost in the twighlight zone because a university lab has not studied it explicitly.

The problem with this is the incessant parroting of information that may, or may not, have any truth to it. How much BS is spewed in every gym? There isn't much of a consensus in the BB'ing community as is.

And yeah, I did respond to chestcrack in kind. Probably shouldn't have but for the record I didn't deduct his internet points for making whimsical comments in a topic he doesn't know anything about while parading around like some kind of smart ass, worker ant hero. It's a real shame points don't actually indicate knowledge but some kind of web politics. It could be very misleading to a newb here who also happens to be a newb in the gym.

And you accused me of straying off topic...

We have results and we have dogma. I will logically take results, all day.
It's extremely ironic that you use the word dogma in a derogatory sense here when it is the "traditional" BB'ing dogma that is the core of the discussion.

For someone that has made it their sole parade to "prove" the merits of constant feedings a la typical BB'ing diets, you haven't shown much outside of non-applicable studies and seeking to besmirch individual members. Using the pros in an attempt as some of anecdotal evidence is a very bad argument as no person on here has the ability and/or resources to have similar lives.

 

[TexasGuy]

For someone that has made it their sole parade to "prove" the merits of constant feedings a la typical BB'ing diets, you haven't shown much outside of non-applicable studies and seeking to besmirch individual members. Using the pros in an attempt as some of anecdotal evidence is a very bad argument as no person on here has the ability and/or resources to have similar lives.

Whether or not you used steroids or specific supplements while on a particular diet is absolutely relevent to a discussion defending that particular diet. Your results from the diet would be severely skewed.


Which steroid compound and specific effect correlating to which diet are you referring to?

I've mentioned crossover between various training styles. Irregardless, the physiological effects of one style over another certainly are weighted heavily in one direction or another.

The burden of proof is a tricky one to place as the whole conversation has been off topic. So far, the traditional bodybuilding diet has been put on the defensive, with no legitimate offensive to take except to default to calling it BS because leangains says to something different and it's easier to just ignore decades of empirical evidence for the trendy new diet. And this has essentially been the conversation. It would seem to me burden of proof is on the people flinging poo at traditional diets to prove they aren't effective beyond a doubt and any limitation.

And again, empirical evidence with such broad and consistent results can not be discounted entirely as gym floor bs, not without proving otherwise beyond any limitation or doubt in the face of so much success from the pros on down to the lean bros with decent looking bumps on their arms.

Dogma is a system of belief or doctrine held by a group or organization. The leangains camp is certainly a group spewing dogma while choosing to ignore decades worth of real world results for dogma.

As far as a "sole parade" I've posted outside of this conversation, but within the conversation I do reply to the conversation.

 

[JudoJosh]

Someone tag me in!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

 

[vidapreta]

Someone tag me in!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

Tag your it.