TST and TRN Metabolites
- 06-13-2006, 02:23 PM
- 06-13-2006, 02:34 PM
Thanks, I'll be sure to check that out.
- 06-16-2006, 08:20 AM
Ok ,after a discussion last night with a family member, I found out that not only do I/he have access to a mass spectromiter, but turns out he owns it, (paid for by grant money), and doesnt cost anything to run something through.
Now, it's at a research facility on metabolic desieses, in another state then me, so mailing a sample could take a little while, plus, you have to make the substance volitile- and you kinda have to know a few things about what you are looking for to run the comparrisions.
Im not all that familure with what is needed. I mean, I have actually used the machine before, and got a demo with the entire process last year.
I guess, what Im asking, is what sort of information would I need to to give on TST that would help? Has anyone done these type of things before? Actually, Im not even sure as to the type of results that I'll get from this test. I know the output is in graph form, and the comparrision is to a database, so if this is a "new" substance, and not in a database, would any of the information gathered from this bennifit anyone?
06-16-2006, 06:34 PM
Originally Posted by stxnas
6mg was the dose that did it to me too. I was already on cycle so had been taken hawthorne berry taurine milkthistle all the regular . My sides stopped a few days after stopping the trn
06-16-2006, 06:50 PM
Floss - Klaus would be the best one to ask about testing. I'm not good enough with analytics to tell you.
Dr. D may be able to help too.
06-16-2006, 10:14 PM
Originally Posted by xtraflossy
I have no idea what the answers are to your questions but I'm bumping this because someone will.
06-17-2006, 05:59 PM
Bumpity Bump! I'm starting my Trn/Tst/Trans 4AD tomorrow. It'd be nice to have some sort of idea of what I'm putting in my body.Originally Posted by yeahright
06-17-2006, 06:18 PM
I doubt you'd have an answer by tomorrow even if he were to get instructions.
Organic chem labs were stupidly long (he's doing some stuff that we did in class - only we "knew" the compound).
06-17-2006, 06:40 PM
Yeah- I knew we wouldn't have an answer by tomorrow- It'd just be nice to know. I'm gonna ingest whatever it is......and get freakin great gains. Later-Originally Posted by jmh80
Bye the way Jmh how's your weight doing? Where are you at? Anymore crazy work schedules? Those were jacked up especially on.
06-17-2006, 06:49 PM
No more crazy sh*t. I just get beat on by the elders....
I haven't weighted myself in a few days - will do tomorrow morning. But, early this week I was still at 170 lbs.
The Powerfull/V-12 Turbo/Rebound Reloaded/DHEA-bAET-7-OH-7 oxo transdermal/nettle root/Retain stack is really starting to kick in!
(AKA the Kitchin Sink - because I make too much money and don't spend it on anything but food, bills, and supps)
Had a great leg workout just now (except for knee pain during lunges - I had to stop).
The only issue is "the squirts" initially with the V-12 turbo. I think I'm going to see if Xceed may help (by taking it pre-WO and V-12 post-WO).
Thanks for asking Sea223. Good to see folks still read my logs.
06-18-2006, 03:21 PM
Yeah-, I was thinking Klaus would know as well. Smart cartoon charecter he is!
- I mean, someone has done something like this.
Monday Im going to compile all the "valid" info that hasbeen theorized, thinking that I can send it with the sample- it MIGHT help!?
06-18-2006, 05:27 PM
I only read your logs to look at those freakin girls, slurp....oops I drooled.J/K. Keep up the good work.Originally Posted by jmh80
Flossy- Looking forward to test results. Thanks
06-18-2006, 06:02 PM
Flossy - he's at IBE.
Let me PM him and tell him to come to this thread. (Hopefully he'll see it via email notice - cuz I ain't seen him on in a while.)
Edit - apparently not. I'm not sure how to get ahold of him then....
06-19-2006, 08:03 AM
Well, like I said before, Im not really exactly sure what infor I'll need. I mean, If Im getting testing and such, I dont need even more speculatiuon, and I beleive Klause has made quite a few comments already to TST (If I remember correctly).
Ill do a little general research on mass spectromity and see what I get out of it.
06-19-2006, 01:53 PM
It will be interesting to see how close this is to known reference compounds.
Last edited by yeahright; 06-19-2006 at 11:45 PM.
06-19-2006, 07:49 PM
He posted what he thought the structure was of TRN for sure.
Not sure on TST.
But, I know he put a PDF of what he thought TRN was. I'd send that along. That should help deduce what the peaks mean.
If that's even what MS is. I took organic lab like 3 years ago - and promptly forgot after the final. I don't do that sort of stuff on a daily basis. We have a chemist for that.
06-20-2006, 08:10 AM
Well, I wasn't able to dig anything up,.. things got rough at work so I didnt have the time.Originally Posted by jmh80
I'll be sending my belated Father's day card out this week (I already gave him a call,.. so don't jump on me!) and should send samples out at the same time.
I CAN include a TRN pill as well- I wont miss one ya know.
Hell, I guess I could send him one of everything I got, but if this is going to be done in the spare time (my sis is actually working at the lab too, using the machine- ) it could take longer for results: and thats assuming it produces something usefull.
I really dont know what else I'd send. Id DEFINATELY send an ERGOMAX though!! I have been wondering what that is supposed to be since I first popped one last year!
Anyways- I'll send him a TST, a TRN and an ERGO- It wont cost anything extra anyways- I'll have hime test the TST first though.
06-20-2006, 08:18 AM
I just sent you a PM XtraFlossy.
06-20-2006, 10:10 AM
I'd love to see a testing of the first batch of Halodrol. Curious as to just how much DMT was present. Kellner got locked up before he could post the results.
06-20-2006, 10:35 AM
LOL, I guess we were both trying to tell each other the same thing Xtraflossy. We all appreciate you getting involved with this.Originally Posted by stxnas
06-20-2006, 11:17 AM
Lol- Have you seen that Siegnfield episode where George forgoes anything to do with women, then gets real smart; always into books, teaching school kids about science.....all because of the lack of sex....(for the next 6 months)Originally Posted by stxnas
Yeah- It's kinda like that
06-20-2006, 11:21 AM
I find myself comparing almost everyday to an episode of Seinfeld...Looking forward to those results. It should be interesting.
06-20-2006, 03:01 PM
Well, Im just posting my GUESS on what it could be.
I am not a chemist, nor do Ieven know if this is a possibility, but just for S&G: (feel free to post your guess as to what TST may be).
Synthesis of 13,14-secotestosterone derivatives.
Khripach VA, Zhabinskii VN, Kuchto AI, Zhiburtovich YY, Fando GP, Lyakhov AS, Govorova AA, Groen MB, van der Louw J, de Groot A.
Institute of Bioorganic Chemistry, National Academy of Sciences of Belarus, Kuprevich Street 5/2, 220141 Minsk. firstname.lastname@example.org
A number of testosterone analogs with a 13,14-secosteroidal fragment have been prepared from (13S)-13-iodo-6beta-methoxy-3alpha, 5-cyclo-13,14-seco-5alpha-androstan-14,17-dione. The key steps involved stereoselective deiodination of the starting compound with triphenylphosphine and selective protection of the 17-keto group with trimethylsilylcyanide. Removal of iodine at C-13 proceeded with inversion of the configuration at C-13, which has been established by X-ray crystallography. 13,14-Secotestosterone analogues substituted and non-substituted at C-14 have been prepared. The obtained compounds containing flexible CD ring fragments are of great interest for comparative studies in biological tests together with testosterone and other steroids with a rigid tetracyclic skeleton.
PMID: 15246780 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
- Um,.. "methoxy", "3alpha", "17"-dione = 17b-methoxy-triensterone.
Lol- just for fun.
06-20-2006, 04:04 PM
Not a bad guess.Originally Posted by xtraflossy
Trienosterone implies that there are three -ene bonds (this one's an androstane), and a single -one (instead of two as in di-one). That compound also has it's methoxy at the 6b position, and not 17b.
But you may be on to something with the secotestosterone derivatives... I don't know, I gave up and am waiting for the FDA to do their thing, and then ALR to reveal it...
06-23-2006, 02:07 AM
Maybe an isomer of tren. Either the 9 or the 11,12 double bond moved over to the 1 position. It'd be dbol with an extra double bond, and a methoxy of course.
06-23-2006, 09:49 AM
Well, if it worked like dbol that would be nice, unfortuniately, users are just not getting very impressive relults in comparrision.Originally Posted by bigSMokey
Does anyone know of a good place on the web that I could get information on what chemical structures mean? Things like Hydroxy, methoxy, and what the placement in the structure names imply?
Ive seen a few good posts here, but Its hard to find them again.
Basicly, like a structure 101 (but for anabolics) - ?
06-23-2006, 11:33 AM
I would just check out an organic chemistry book. I think I still have one. Send me your email in a PM and I'll try and send you good literature that you can reference easily.Originally Posted by xtraflossy
06-23-2006, 12:40 PM
06-23-2006, 05:41 PM
Remember that m-dien, which was was methyltren minus and double bond. It turned out to be not nearly as potent or toxic as expected. In fact the initial dose of 1mg was eventually quadrupled by underground labs. So, perhaps in this case a compound with an added double bond could result in lower potency, but also lower toxicity (in comparison to dbol).Originally Posted by xtraflossy
I basically pulled the dbol analog out of the air since, ethically, I don't think this stuff could be much else other than a triene of some sort. If I were this co., I'd be much more worried about misrepresentation (I.e. implying methoxytest is a triene), than the feds finding out the stuff actually is methoxytest.
But anyways, yes an O-chem book would be the best for finding out what the various functional groups represent. However, as for your other request, steroid structure 101, here is an excellent resource:
The Nomenclature of Steroids Home Page
Stop by the first entry, 3S-1 General, first off. It gives the numbering system showing exactly where all these functional groups fall on the steroid skeleton.
This resource even helped me figure out some possible structures for that monstrous compound, (13S)-13-iodo-6beta-methoxy-3alpha, 5-cyclo-13,14-seco-5alpha-androstan-14,17-dione, listed the other day. I'm still stumped on how the cyclo relates to that seco.
06-23-2006, 06:45 PM
I don't think cyclo relates to seco. But, I could be wrong. I'm not familiar with seco. I don't remember that from organic.
Floss - Klaus put up his own steroid nomenclature PDF on here. Look for that.
06-23-2006, 06:46 PM
S means clockwise direction at the chiral carbon. (Most important group to least important is in the clockwise direction.)
06-24-2006, 11:59 AM
Seco indicate the breaking of a bond at the specified location (here it's 13,14), with the formation of two new alkyl chains. However, from my understanding, when cyclo is introduced in front of this type of term, it indicates that this broken "seco" bond's two new alkyl chains meet up at a new location, forming a new ring, hence the "cyclo". However, if one looks at the ring number layout on a nomenclature page, these 13 & 14 carbons form a very warped molecule if they rebond at 5.Originally Posted by jmh80
But at any rate, when considering this exotic rebonding and the halogen, methoxy, etc. substitution, I seriously doubt this or anything similar, could be in TST. The cost would be extreme.
I think a methoxytren isomer or methoxytest are the only reasonable guesses at this point. With test being the forerunner because the product was discontinued so fast (methoxytren itself is still out there, so why would an isomer be discontinued?).
06-26-2006, 07:22 AM
Oh man , all this chemistry discussion is going to make my head explode.... I have run the TST and TRN .. NICE COMBO , did not break out from this , it seems that is affecting a lot of dudes.. Libido was through the roof on this stuff.. I want to pick up a couple of more bottles before it goes away.. I got a bottle of the Kilo product but from this thread it appears to be crap ..
06-26-2006, 01:22 PM
Well, it's something. It apparently isn't a copy of the original but I would assume that it is some anabolic formulation.Originally Posted by raider1
06-26-2006, 02:47 PM
Just an update- as most of the stuff on this particular page just went over my head....
The sample is packaged, in an envelope, stamped and will be mailed tomarrow for testing.
-Would have dont it today, except it was raining kinda hard when I left for work this morning, and didn't want things to get wet on the way to the mailbox I pass (which, is about 2 miles- not the closest, but on the way)
06-26-2006, 04:08 PM
I asked them about that, this was the responseOriginally Posted by yeahright
China makes all kinds of Chemicals I canít really see why this one would be any different or harder to make? IMO
06-26-2006, 10:21 PM
Well, to make something you have to know what it is. It's my understanding (and I could be wrong) that this is a unique compound....so when you try and analyze what it is, there isn't any reference compound to compare it to. ALRI has mentioned this and Bioscience mentioned that they had no luck synthesizing the compound until ALRI told them what to look for.Originally Posted by kappaz
This is all just stuff that I've gleaned from various threads and could be completely wrong.....but ALR seemed pretty confident of it and I'd have to defer to his expertise.
06-27-2006, 10:19 AM
IT was also said, (in addition to it not being a metabolite of test) that TST is very detectable.Originally Posted by yeahright
Actually synthesizing and figureing out the exact compound structure and makeup is one thing, testing possitive os another. I would assume that what you came up possitive for would be a fairly accurate guess at the compound they were tring to mimic legaly..(?)
06-30-2006, 07:42 PM
I would just like to say , there is alot of questions unanswered about the KS M-TRN but I've been off for 3weeks and kept all my gains. If I was to give my thoughts about it I would say It was like taking about 40mg of Tren EOD. No BS!!!!
07-01-2006, 12:48 PM
ALR stated that this wasnt the same compound and that they didnt know how to synthesize it. In reality, I think all the companies are getting their raws from China or somewhere. Plus, based off ALL of the feedback I've read on Trenadrol and Mega-TRN, they seem to be consistent thus implying that it is the same compound.Originally Posted by dirtysouthmuscl
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