You know your Country is f@#ked when...

Glawry

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FROM the NCPA (National center for policy analysis)
It is a common fantasy that gun bans make society safer. In 2002 -- five years after enacting its gun ban -- the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime. In fact, the percent of murders committed with a firearm was the highest it had ever been in 2006 (16.3 percent), says the D.C. Examiner. Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:

  • In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
  • Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
  • Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:

  • Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.
  • During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
  • Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
  • Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
  • At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
  • Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.

Hahaha these figures make me laugh.

For starters, sexual assault doesn't just include rape in Australia. Sexual assault includes things as petty as sexual harassment. Sexual assault basically refers to any unwanted sexual behaviour which makes a person feel uncomfortable, threatened or scared. It covers a range of different types of assault. So to include this in your figures compared to actual RAPE figures in USA is laughable. Don't confuse rape with sexual assault because they mean totally different things, sexual assault can be so minor it's funny.

And you are quoting figures from 5 years after the reforms? Well guess what, the figures have continued to decrease to the point it is less than half now then when the reforms were brought in. 2002 was 11 years ago mate. Things have changed considerably since then, evidenced by the real world STATISTICS I provided.

Wow robbery increased 6.2 percent? Hahahaha. I would much rather want robbery to ever so slightly increase as a trade off to having gun deaths more than half since reforms brought it.

Your post and 'figures' just made you look more stupid. LOL. Thanks mate
 
McCrew530

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Did the facts I put up confuse you?
 
Glawry

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Did the facts I put up confuse you?

Nothing to be confused about mate. You just made yourself look stupid. And you didn't put up facts you just posted an article with some percentages, not numbers. An article is different to facts and figures. And the figures you posted were so insignificant anyway. All you said was that gun deaths had reduced 31 percent 5 years after the reforms, what's your point? And in the 11 YEARS since 2002 where you got your figures from, gun deaths have even more considerably dropped to a very insignificant number.

As I mentioned before how broad a description 'sexual assault' covers in Australia and how minor it most of the time, the same with normal assault, is a very broad term and can be something as small as threatening/swearing at someone or getting in a harmless fist fight at a nightclub.

You take your chances with your gun deaths and I'll take my chances with 'assaults'. Death vs 'assault', I know what most people would prefer.

Are you McConfused???
 

Jstrong20

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'Criminals will still find a way to kill someone' wow u people are so educated. I would much rather take my chances against anything other than a gun. Do u think those 70 people shot and killed watching batman would have been killed with a Knife? Hell no! Maybe a couple but not a massacre.

Would Adam Lanza been able to kill all those school children if he wasn't able to access guns so easily? Of course not.

Wake up America, real problems need to be fixed with real solutions, not your gun toting hillbilly ideas.
Do you think before you speak? You said you would rather face a gun than anything else. Really? Only 1 out of 7 people shot by a hand gun actually die. I would rather face a gun than a bomb anyday. "Would adam lanza been able to kill as many children without a gun?". You said "no". Your answer is wrong. A bomb could kill way more. What about the oklahoma city bomb. Killed something like 168 people and over 500 million in damage.
 
Glawry

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Do you think before you speak? You said you would rather face a gun than anything else. Really? Only 1 out of 7 people shot by a hand gun actually die. I would rather face a gun than a bomb anyday. "Would adam lanza been able to kill as many children without a gun?". You said "no". Your answer is wrong. A bomb could kill way more. What about the oklahoma city bomb. Killed something like 168 people and over 500 million in damage.

Another stupid hillybilly has joined the thread, please please explain to me where I said I would rather face a gun?? If you read properly you will see I said I would rather face anything OTHER than a gun (meaning knife, bat, whatever like I've explained in several comments. Please read before you post because you just made yourself look so stupid.

How often do bombs go off? Not very often at all, this is just fresh on your mind because of the boston bombing, don't let that cloud reality. Guns can be controlled and are killing 10's of thousands of people every year, ON PURPOSE, How many do bombs kill in your country? I don't even want to hear any stupid answers because it is pointless to throw bombs on a gun debate.

Ofcourse bombs have massive powers of destruction but your just being ridiculous now. 'what if' someone let off an atomic bomb in amercia. That sort of stuff is so rare it's not worth debating. What we are debating is GUNS and how easily accessible they are. Go back and read every individual post since the start of the thread because you have no idea and I feel like I'm wasting precious seconds of my life just typing this to you.
 

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OP, you keep talking about defending yourself with your fists. Come to the DFW, TX area and this "gun toting, back woods redneck" will gladly beat your ass with his fists. I'll even give you a few free cheap shots. You really have a lot of life lessons to learn, not only about people you demonize, but about those you seem to think will cause you no harm because "you have fists".

If you think you are so bad, bring it. I'm no fighter, I'm a law abiding 5'7" 250 pound fat ass that will gladly prove how wrong you are about your "no need for guns" view.
 
McCrew530

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Nothing to be confused about mate. You just made yourself look stupid. And you didn't put up facts you just posted an article with some percentages, not numbers. An article is different to facts and figures. And the figures you posted were so insignificant anyway. All you said was that gun deaths had reduced 31 percent 5 years after the reforms, what's your point? And in the 11 YEARS since 2002 where you got your figures from, gun deaths have even more considerably dropped to a very insignificant number.

As I mentioned before how broad a description 'sexual assault' covers in Australia and how minor it most of the time, the same with normal assault, is a very broad term and can be something as small as threatening/swearing at someone or getting in a harmless fist fight at a nightclub.

You take your chances with your gun deaths and I'll take my chances with 'assaults'. Death vs 'assault', I know what most people would prefer.

Are you McConfused???
The report came from 2009 so your stupid. That's 4 years ago. Plus the fact that An Australian women is three times as likely to get raped not only speaks on how pathetic you treat your women. Plus the main thing you should go back a read is that Violent crime jumped over 40%. And since we are comparing a vast great country like the US to England's prison colony percentages are an easy way to compare the two. Let me guess im stupid is that your reply. Troll.
 
lukehayd

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Wow! Gotta love it when a person from another country tries to tell someone how their country "should" handle things. Love all the name calling too. Usually in a debate, that is a very good indicator of frustration and feeling a loss is eminent. I'm not going to look it up but just wonder what the statistics are about "crimes stopped by firearms" (obviously not including law enforcement) to throw in some more food for the troll. How about how many of the guns in America are used for hunting or what a ban would do to that industry or the wildlife population. Insurance companies push for longer hunting seasons on deer because of all the wrecks, injuries and deaths caused by deer running into the roads. How much more would that be if there were no hunters to control the populations of wildlife? We are an agricultural country and the wildlife flourish because of it.
 
Glawry

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OP, you keep talking about defending yourself with your fists. Come to the DFW, TX area and this "gun toting, back woods redneck" will gladly beat your ass with his fists. I'll even give you a few free cheap shots. You really have a lot of life lessons to learn, not only about people you demonize, but about those you seem to think will cause you no harm because "you have fists".

If you think you are so bad, bring it. I'm no fighter, I'm a law abiding 5'7" 250 pound fat ass that will gladly prove how wrong you are about your "no need for guns" view.

I never said I'm a bad ass that can't beat every one with my fists. But it should be fists over guns. And ofcourse if it comes down to it then fists can do some damage.

So correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be implying that if you were losing a fist fight that you would pull out a gun and shoot someone to defend yourself? That's weak man, you are a coward. This is the problem I'm trying to tell you about, at the first sign of thinking you need to protect yourself you (and a lot of other Americans) will pull out a gun which ends up with someone being shot.

You talk a big game over the internet, go pull your internet dcik while you're at it. 250 pounds at 5'7, wow, no wonder you have a gun, you definitely would find it hard to run.

I'm asking you a serious question, would you rather be confronted with someone that has a gun or that someone that wanted a fist fight? Better yet, would you want a family member to be confronted with a gun or for them to be in a fist fight? If they have a gun and you have a gun then it's 50/50 chance you are going to die. A fist fight rarely involves with someone dying. Seriously mate you lack common sense.

Lastly, just because we don't have guns here in Australia doesn't mean there is fist fights happening everywhere LOL, from my time in America and in Australia I've seen way more fights in America. Everyone is chilled here in Australia, no worries mate, we don't have to 'think' to protect ourselves because it's not like that here. So again, you are looking quite silly comparing guns vs fists. You have said nothing valid whatsoever.
 
Swanson52

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Sounds like y'all a bunch of gun toting hillbilly rednecks.

Your solution is more guns. That proves how messed up things are.

Well in USA the only reason the small number of states with tight gun control have high gun deaths is because the guns are still sooooo easy to get! How hard do u think it is to get a gun from one state to another? Its not like fricken mexico to usa. If u r too stupid to understand that then u r more stupid then i thought.

The solution is NATIONAL reforms which everyone has to abide by. The problem is the stupid f@#king 2nd amendment which u gun toting hicks think is a god given right, it was made up by stupid gun toting fools centuries ago, just coz it was made a Law then doesnt make it right now.

USA should follow in the foot steps of Australia. I have been to Australia several times and have friends that live there and i can say firsthand how much safer it is there (BTW i have travelled the world and seen it all). Since they had a shooting massacre in 1996 they brought in gun reforms and guns are now illegal to carry, there is barely 200 shooting deaths in the whole country per year and most of those are bike/gang/drug related so its just the scum killing eachother. No one carries guns there, there is no gun shops anywhere and very hard to get a hold of a gun. When the reforms were brought in, the government offered a buy-back scheme to subsidise people giving up their guns and this proved very successful. Obviously this doesnt take all the guns off the street but over the years 2 things happened. 1) anyone caught with a gun got sent to jail and gun confiscated obviously, and 2) the small number of guns that were floating around- how cheap do u think these were to buy on the black market? Quite expensive due to being very hard to get and for most criminals they just couldnt afford to buy one. Obviously this takes time for this to work, its not an overnight fix. And NO, other violent crime did not significantly rise in the country, just the number of guns deaths significantly reduced. As i said, i have been to Australia several times and can say firsthand how safe it is to live there. U think u live in a free country because u can carry a gun? Thats not my idea of a free country, to me a free country is not worrying about getting shot and needing to protect myself with gun.

And to pre-empt some of your comments-

'Guns dont kill people, people kill people' thats f@#king the most stupidest thing ive heard. When u have guns so easily accessible to criminals and crazy people then they will be MUCH more likely to kill someone.

'But criminals dont follow the Law' no **** sherlock, but when these criminals cannot access guns so easily the chances of them shooting someone to death are very slim.

'Criminals will still find a way to kill someone' wow u people are so educated. I would much rather take my chances against anything other than a gun. Do u think those 70 people shot and killed watching batman would have been killed with a Knife? Hell no! Maybe a couple but not a massacre.

Would Adam Lanza been able to kill all those school children if he wasn't able to access guns so easily? Of course not.

Wake up America, real problems need to be fixed with real solutions, not your gun toting hillbilly ideas.
Just quoting this so you can't edit.

In the above post you refer to AUS as "there" and a place you've visited.

Now you're saying you live in AUS.

Trololololol. Reported.
 

tsugsr

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Run? Why run? I'm not a wuss, if someone wants to fight ill fight. If they wanna put my life in danger then id pull my weapon. No need too unless my life was in danger.

You can mock my weight all you want online, make the same comments in person and my perceived inability to run wont matter. I can run a 400 sprint faster than many, and I'm willing to bet that will include you.
 
Glawry

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The report came from 2009 so your stupid. That's 4 years ago. Plus the fact that An Australian women is three times as likely to get raped not only speaks on how pathetic you treat your women. Plus the main thing you should go back a read is that Violent crime jumped over 40%. And since we are comparing a vast great country like the US to England's prison colony percentages are an easy way to compare the two. Let me guess im stupid is that your reply. Troll.

Did you not read my post? They are comparing our 'sexual assault' vs your country's actual RAPE figures. Go back and read, or FYI- 'sexual assault doesn't just include rape in Australia. Sexual assault includes things as petty as sexual harassment. Sexual assault basically refers to any unwanted sexual behaviour which makes a person feel uncomfortable, threatened or scared. It covers a range of different types of assault. So to include this in your figures compared to actual RAPE figures in USA is laughable. Don't confuse rape with sexual assault because they mean totally different things, sexual assault can be so minor it's funny' Do you understand that? Or will I need to post it again in another post??

I'm not sure about England and don't have time to be comparing every other country.

You have given me no actual numbers of what the violent crime is/was, just a percentage. It could have gone from 10 to 14 in our whole country. Is a rise of 4 significant? You understand what i'm trying to say? And violent crime is still not as bad as death, do you understand that as well? It feels like i'm trying to explain things to school children.
 
mikeg313

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Someone open a window... It smells like douche in here
 
mustang0341

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Your comment was so worthless and pathetic that it didn't warrant a response. Your comment was answered in several previous posts anyway so I have no need to keep repeating myself.
classic "goose stepping" response, Simply admit you did not read it and stfu.

I'm not sure about England and don't have time to be comparing every other country.
Yet you have plenty of time to pull bs stats from the internet about YOUR country?? I am glad your an Aussie but I feel sorry for my Aussie bros on here that you're one of them.

Why concern yourself with our politics in the first place? oh i know because you like every other socialist talking head can't help but spew your rhetoric at every juncture.....really lame. And your constant name calling is first class, that is the perfect way to support your own arguments.
 
lukehayd

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Wow! Gotta love it when a person from another country tries to tell someone how their country "should" handle things. Love all the name calling too. Usually in a debate, that is a very good indicator of frustration and feeling a loss is eminent. I'm not going to look it up but just wonder what the statistics are about "crimes stopped by firearms" (obviously not including law enforcement) to throw in some more food for the troll. How about how many of the guns in America are used for hunting or what a ban would do to that industry or the wildlife population. Insurance companies push for longer hunting seasons on deer because of all the wrecks, injuries and deaths caused by deer running into the roads. How much more would that be if there were no hunters to control the populations of wildlife? We are an agricultural country and the wildlife flourish because of it.

I honestly wondered what the troll had to say about hunting and such. I like how he said he was posting it on multiple forums = more evidence of being a TROLL.
 
lukehayd

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As far as rather fist fighting, if some guys breaks into my place, why would I want to engage them in a fist fight? What if they are on drugs? I've seen it take six cops to subdue a guy on drugs. The guy's ankle was all busted and he was still walking on it. He was so out of it that he wasn't registering the pain. How do you stop a guy like that by yourself when it took six trained men to do it? Why would I risk losing a fist fight where they might then choose to rape/ kill my wife and daughter after they beat me lifeless? No, I'd give them a double tap and then give my girls a hug.
 
ax1

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I'm asking you a serious question, would you rather be confronted with someone that has a gun or that someone that wanted a fist fight? Better yet, would you want a family member to be confronted with a gun or for them to be in a fist fight? If they have a gun and you have a gun then it's 50/50 chance you are going to die. A fist fight rarely involves with someone dying. Seriously mate you lack common sense.
Think about this...if more people had guns would a guy with a gun be more cozy knowing chances are someone in their home doesn't have a gun are knowing that the home owner may possibly be armed to the teeth?

Think about this...most of these "mass" killings happen in gun free zones.
 

Jstrong20

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Another stupid hillybilly has joined the thread, please please explain to me where I said I would rather face a gun?? If you read properly you will see I said I would rather face anything OTHER than a gun (meaning knife, bat, whatever like I've explained in several comments. Please read before you post because you just made yourself look so stupid.

How often do bombs go off? Not very often at all, this is just fresh on your mind because of the boston bombing, don't let that cloud reality. Guns can be controlled and are killing 10's of thousands of people every year, ON PURPOSE, How many do bombs kill in your country? I don't even want to hear any stupid answers because it is pointless to throw bombs on a gun debate.

Ofcourse bombs have massive powers of destruction but your just being ridiculous now. 'what if' someone let off an atomic bomb in amercia. That sort of stuff is so rare it's not worth debating. What we are debating is GUNS and how easily accessible they are. Go back and read every individual post since the start of the thread because you have no idea and I feel like I'm wasting precious seconds of my life just typing this to you.
Sorry phone was messing up and had to retype numerous times. Ment to say you said you would rather face anything else besides a gun. and point was a bomb is worse. Also to call me a hillbilly is way off ha. Come to my neighborhood at night and walk through it. Tell me how many hillbillies you see. I live in Pittsburgh. Lol Nice little place called hazelwood.
 

Jstrong20

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Besides even if guns are illegal I will still have them. It makes no diffrence. Well... actually it would. Since they would be illegal anyway I would convert my ak to full auto. Lol.
 
MIGUEL1J

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Tell me this, wanker, your 'lady' with a gun vs a criminal crazy with a gun, who is more likely to get shot dead? Also factoring in the time it takes for your wife to get into the safe to get a gun, your lady would already be shot dead. I would much rather my wife not be put in that situation. Crazy people don't just do massacres, they also just do 'murders' which is why your murder and gun death rate are so high. Capish?
You have to be really stupid to think that we lock our gun safe, my wife can drop some one up-to 500 feet away. I can't wait to my son turns 13 I'm going to teach him to. Really dude grow balls
 
Bigcountry08

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Sounds like y'all a bunch of gun toting hillbilly rednecks.

Your solution is more guns. That proves how messed up things are.

Well in USA the only reason the small number of states with tight gun control have high gun deaths is because the guns are still sooooo easy to get! How hard do u think it is to get a gun from one state to another? Its not like fricken mexico to usa. If u r too stupid to understand that then u r more stupid then i thought.

The solution is NATIONAL reforms which everyone has to abide by. The problem is the stupid f@#king 2nd amendment which u gun toting hicks think is a god given right, it was made up by stupid gun toting fools centuries ago, just coz it was made a Law then doesnt make it right now.

USA should follow in the foot steps of Australia. I have been to Australia several times and have friends that live there and i can say firsthand how much safer it is there (BTW i have travelled the world and seen it all). Since they had a shooting massacre in 1996 they brought in gun reforms and guns are now illegal to carry, there is barely 200 shooting deaths in the whole country per year and most of those are bike/gang/drug related so its just the scum killing eachother. No one carries guns there, there is no gun shops anywhere and very hard to get a hold of a gun. When the reforms were brought in, the government offered a buy-back scheme to subsidise people giving up their guns and this proved very successful. Obviously this doesnt take all the guns off the street but over the years 2 things happened. 1) anyone caught with a gun got sent to jail and gun confiscated obviously, and 2) the small number of guns that were floating around- how cheap do u think these were to buy on the black market? Quite expensive due to being very hard to get and for most criminals they just couldnt afford to buy one. Obviously this takes time for this to work, its not an overnight fix. And NO, other violent crime did not significantly rise in the country, just the number of guns deaths significantly reduced. As i said, i have been to Australia several times and can say firsthand how safe it is to live there. U think u live in a free country because u can carry a gun? Thats not my idea of a free country, to me a free country is not worrying about getting shot and needing to protect myself with gun.

And to pre-empt some of your comments-

'Guns dont kill people, people kill people' thats f@#king the most stupidest thing ive heard. When u have guns so easily accessible to criminals and crazy people then they will be MUCH more likely to kill someone.

'But criminals dont follow the Law' no **** sherlock, but when these criminals cannot access guns so easily the chances of them shooting someone to death are very slim.

'Criminals will still find a way to kill someone' wow u people are so educated. I would much rather take my chances against anything other than a gun. Do u think those 70 people shot and killed watching batman would have been killed with a Knife? Hell no! Maybe a couple but not a massacre.

Would Adam Lanza been able to kill all those school children if he wasn't able to access guns so easily? Of course not.

Wake up America, real problems need to be fixed with real solutions, not your gun toting hillbilly ideas.
None of your remarks even matter glawry. I have my guns, my family members have there's and my friends all have there's and there's nothing you can do about it. Your never going to get them taken away from me no matter how scared you get, no matter how hard you cry.

You talk about Australia and Europe being peaceful, but there are just as many statistics showing showing gun bans in those countries have made it more dangerous in those countries as there are statistics showing getting rid of guns in America would make it safer here. England is one of the most monitored countries in the world with strict gun bans yet, it is the most violent country in the EU.

I know none of my statements are going to matter to you, because none of your statements matter to me. We both are set in our ways and want what we want. But just relies something if you people finally do get something past through this perverted government system. You will be to blame for any blood shed that goes on, and you better hope your brave enough and willing to pick up arms to fight for what you believe in cause I will tell you here and now I am. Because that army and police force your entrusted to do that for you, well a good majority of those guys are country boy gun lovers to, so who's side do you think there going to be on. But anyways I'm done with this crap.

Have fun being one of the "enlightened ones" glawry.
 
ax1

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You have to be really stupid to think that we lock our gun safe, my wife can drop some one up-to 500 feet away. I can't wait to my son turns 13 I'm going to teach him to. Really dude grow balls
And the sad story is that if you take a picture with your kid + gun and he brings the picture to your school you may have social services knocking on your door later that day trying to take your kid away and finding CNN that night saying, "OMG a gun and a kid, he must belong to some extremest right wing kkk group and the little boy is on the path to terrorize the nation!!!!!"
 
McCrew530

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Eh it looked like Glary's mom restricted his internet access today. I did want to point out something I found interesting in yesterdays posting. Did any one notice how not 1 person supported that kids stance on anti gun legislature, not 1 person. Now this may be because we all know how real men feel about stuff that goes boom or bang. But for all the stats out there saying how most of America is for gun reform, you would think one person would have chimed in with something intelligent to say... Or at least try to play devils advocate
 

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Not for taking away anyone's guns, but expanded background checks is no brainer. Anyone against that is simply being unreasonable, paranoid and/or a combination of both.
 
harbonah

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And to pre-empt some of your comments-

'Guns dont kill people, people kill people' thats f@#king the most stupidest thing ive heard. When u have guns so easily accessible to criminals and crazy people then they will be MUCH more likely to kill someone.

'But criminals dont follow the Law' no **** sherlock, but when these criminals cannot access guns so easily the chances of them shooting someone to death are very slim.

'Criminals will still find a way to kill someone' wow u people are so educated. I would much rather take my chances against anything other than a gun. Do u think those 70 people shot and killed watching batman would have been killed with a Knife? Hell no! Maybe a couple but not a massacre.

Would Adam Lanza been able to kill all those school children if he wasn't able to access guns so easily? Of course not.

Wake up America, real problems need to be fixed with real solutions, not your gun toting hillbilly ideas.

I know your trolling but this is retarded I am sorry to say but this is a total failure of reality....do you have any idea how long it would take to collect all the guns out there do you even understand the monumental size of this kind of operation? rofl something like 80 out of every 100 people own a gun in this country...stop and think about that as it only accounts for what...oh yeah legally obtained guns do you have any idea how long it would take me to buy a gun from someone off the books....do you really think anyone with a felony really will go near a gun store to buy a gun this law an many like it do nothing at all not a damn thing other then waste money trying to enforce a law that will never work.
 
superbeast668

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Not for taking away anyone's guns, but expanded background checks is no brainer. Anyone against that is simply being unreasonable, paranoid and/or a combination of both.
Honestly there's no need for expanding anything. They need to enforce what's in place.
 
harbonah

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Tell me this, wanker, your 'lady' with a gun vs a criminal crazy with a gun, who is more likely to get shot dead? Also factoring in the time it takes for your wife to get into the safe to get a gun, your lady would already be shot dead. I would much rather my wife not be put in that situation. Crazy people don't just do massacres, they also just do 'murders' which is why your murder and gun death rate are so high. Capish?
LOL I am sorry but this made me laugh my money would be on my wife who has been very well trained by an Expert Marksman.. and he sleeps next to her at night....


Not even to mention the fact I did not spend time in the military of this country to have my rights taken away as a citizen.

hell background check everyone I just do not think it will do a damn bit of good that is not how criminals get guns.
 

southpaw23

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Honestly there's no need for expanding anything. They need to enforce what's in place.
Why not? What's the harm in extending background checks in person to person transactions, and enforcing them (because they aren't always enforced) at gun shows? Nothing. In fact the bill that was voted down, if you read the bill it included prohibiting the creation of a national gun registry, so removing that fear, what's the big deal? Even the current head of the NRA was for it before he was against it.



On May 27, 1999, LaPierre testified before the House Judiciary Committee Subcommittee on Crime. The Columbine High School shooting, in which 12 high school students and one teacher were murdered, had happened a month earlier. To rebut what he saw as a demonization of the NRA and its members, LaPierre listed a number of actions and laws he said were good policy.

First on that list was this:


"We think it's reasonable to provide mandatory instant criminal background checks for every sale at every gun show. No loopholes anywhere for anyone," he said. "That means closing the Hinckley loophole so the records of those adjudicated mentally ill are in the system. This isn't new, or a change of position, or a concession. I've been on record on this point consistently, from our national meeting in Denver, to paid national ads and position papers, to news interviews and press appearances."

He also spoke in favor of preventing juvenile felons from ever owning guns, setting up instant background checks at gun shows, and keeping schools gun-free.

There’s additional evidence, too.

New York magazine, in a January 2013 story, dug up the advertising campaign LaPierre mentioned in his testimony. Titled "Be reasonable," the NRA ads that ran in national newspapers said, "We think it's reasonable to provide for instant checks at gun shows just like at gun stores and pawn shops. But what's unreasonable is how the proposed Lautenberg legislation ignores the 250,000 prohibited people, like felons, who've walked away from gun stores — instead of being prosecuted for a federal felony for trying to buy a gun."
We contacted the NRA for our previous story but did not receive a response. In January, NRA board member Sandy Froman told CNN, "The NRA has changed its position, and the reason it's changed its position is because the system doesn't work."
LaPierre himself acknowledged this change in a January 2013 Senate hearing in the wake of the Newtown, Conn., elementary school shooting.
"I do not believe the way the law is working now, unfortunately, that it does any good to extend the law to private sales between hobbyists and collectors. … The fact is, the law right now is a failure the way it's working," he said.
Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., then said, "I understand, back in 1999, you said no loopholes anywhere for anyone. But now you do not support background checks for all buyers of firearms?"
 
harbonah

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Why not? What's the harm in extending background checks in person to person transactions, and enforcing them (because they aren't always enforced) at gun shows? Nothing. In fact the bill that was voted down, if you read the bill it included prohibiting the creation of a national gun registry, so removing that fear away, what's the big deal?
I would say its just simply a waste but **** it we waste so much money why not toss a few million more away on laws to only catch the stupid people trying to buy guns.....because anyone with half a brain will buy it on the streets **** you would be shocked by what one can buy with out going near a legal gun store or show.
 

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I would say its just simply a waste but **** it we waste so much money why not toss a few million more away on laws to only catch the stupid people trying to buy guns.....because anyone with half a brain will buy it on the streets **** you would be shocked by what one can buy with out going near a legal gun store or show.
Well that's what you would say. I'd say in reviewing all the poll numbers, something to the tune of over 80 to 90% of the American people supported expansion of background checks.
 
McCrew530

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I would say its just simply a waste but **** it we waste so much money why not toss a few million more away on laws to only catch the stupid people trying to buy guns.....because anyone with half a brain will buy it on the streets **** you would be shocked by what one can buy with out going near a legal gun store or show.
The problem with the proposed background check bill was that there was a lot more to it than just expanding it to gun shows it would limit some times completely nullify family to family sales. There was an section of the bill that would have negated a personal ability to use their government issued concealed carry permit into other states. I dont think any one would argue against making gun sales at gun shows the same as gun shops but there was so much more to it because the government was trying to be sneaky. Like always. The governments Gun controll bill failed because they tried to present it as a simple change when there was way more to it than they were letting on.
 
superbeast668

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Well that's what you would say. I'd say in reviewing all the poll numbers, something to the tune of over 80 to 90% of the American people supported expansion of background checks.
Get correct stats bro. Quoting Obamas made up stats is so beyond wrong. If it was supported that heavily it would have passed
 

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In regards to family to family sales, there should be a paper trail, it's not like you're trading baseball cards. In Newton, though the mother was within her legal rights to own weapons and had a permit to do so, based on the medical background of her son, there is no way that those weapons should have been readily available to him, simply because he was "family." And with respect to weapons portability, just because you're permitted to carry weapons in one state, does NOT mean you are in another state, case and point New York. There are about 5 states off the top of my head where you CANNOT travel into that state with a weapon without first applying and then being granted a permit within that state.
 
superbeast668

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Let's see your stats "bro." :/
The vote shooting it down is close enough. What was it roughly 60% saying no?

If Obama asked 100% of the democrats 90% support is feasible.
 

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The vote shooting it down is close enough. What was it roughly 60% saying no?

If Obama asked 100% of the democrats 90% support is feasible.
That's a vote, not a poll which is more reflective of the wider "electorate." But nice attempt...
 
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Get correct stats bro. Quoting Obamas made up stats is so beyond wrong. If it was supported that heavily it would have passed
The problem with those stats is that if you answered yes to any one of the multitude of questions then you are in support or gun reform. Like this Superbeast are you in support or complete disarmament of America? : No
Are you in support of an assault rifle ban?: No
Are you in support of a mandatory cool off period when buying a gun:? No
Are you in support of background checks at gun shows the same as a gun shop?: yes
Boom then you are part of the 80-90% of people in support of gun reform. Its such a gray stat that its use is laughable. And they tout it like 90 percent of America is in support of the gun reform the Obama wanted when that was not the case.
 

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The problem with those stats is that if you answered yes to any one of the multitude of questions then you are in support or gun reform. Like this Superbeast are you in support or complete disarmament of America? : No
Are you in support of an assault rifle ban?: No
Are you in support of a mandatory cool off period when buying a gun:? No
Are you in support of background checks at gun shows the same as a gun shop?: yes
Boom then you are part of the 80-90% of people in support of gun reform. Its such a gray stat that its use is laughable. And they tout it like 90 percent of America is in support of the gun reform the Obama wanted when that was not the case.
Yet the current head of the NRA supported some of those very same things BEFORE he was against it. Look at the comments he made in 1999 versus the what he's saying today. Makes absolutely no sense.
 
superbeast668

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That's a vote, not a poll which is more reflective of the wider "electorate." But nice attempt...
Show me who was asked and when. Not for nothing there's maybe 3 people arguing for increased background checks in this thread. Not close to 90%. Show me a LEGITIMATE poll. Not Obamas you guys are ass holes for shooting down my liberal bill numbers.

The vote reflects the feelings of most Americans my friend. Hell even here in ny every county but 3 petitioned to remove the safe act that was late night back room written and passed. Show me a legit stat not Obamas made up number.


Here you go. http://redalertpolitics.com/2013/03/26/new-poll-majority-of-americans-no-longer-back-stricter-gun-control/

47% do not back more strict control.
 
harbonah

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Show me who was asked and when. Not for nothing there's maybe 3 people arguing for increased background checks in this thread. Not close to 90%. Show me a LEGITIMATE poll. Not Obamas you guys are ass holes for shooting down my liberal bill numbers.

The vote reflects the feelings of most Americans my friend. Hell even here in ny every county but 3 petitioned to remove the safe act that was late night back room written and passed. Show me a legit stat not Obamas made up number.


Here you go. wtf I cant quote someone else's link come on 150 posts is insane....

47% do not back more strict control.

I would say I am neither for or against it I just think background checks are a waste of money if the goal is to keep guns out of the hands of criminal's...I suppose it will stop a few really stupid people.
 
McCrew530

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In regards to family to family sales, there should be a paper trail, it's not like you're trading baseball cards. In Newton, though the mother was within her legal rights to own weapons and had a permit to do so, based on the medical background of her son, there is no way that those weapons should have been readily available to him, simply because he was "family." And with respect to weapons portability, just because you're permitted to carry weapons in one state, does NOT mean you are in another state, case and point New York. There are about 5 states off the top of my head where you CANNOT travel into that state with a weapon without first applying and then being granted a permit within that state.
Yes true but the formerly proposed measure would have made it available in zero areas to transfer a concealed carry permits. And I dont know about you but I certainly feel safer when I know sane people with guns are there just incase SHTF. I unfortunately live in CA where our rights are already severely infringed upon by good ol Fienklestine Fienstine. As for the Family to Family sales for the most part I agree with their being some accountability in regards to weapons being sold to family felons or the crazy uncle or son but there is already a law against straw purchases (which this would fall under) so really no further legislation is needed.
 
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Ya just like anyone he can change his mind but he didnt give a single REASON why he did and that is the key issue. The main problem with this entire thing is that no one came forward with a cut and dry this will work because argument and Vise Versa. It was a bunch of no no no or yes yes yes. Zero give and take. But I know for a fact 99.9% of America is against killing kids. Granted every now and again some of them need a whoopen.
 
ax1

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Now they wanna ban black powder. A Senator will be proposing a bill soon.

http://www.examiner.com/article/senator-to-propose-bill-regulating-black-power-wake-of-boston-massacre

When are they going to ban gasoline? After someone, someday douches a nursery school with gasoline and lights in on fire then we must as responsible citizens give up our freedom to pump our own gas at a gas station and limit purchase to 1 gallon.

We can also ban all vehicles since they all can be used as a 2,000+ lb projectile. We must we must....someone can run into the school children lining up to get on a bus, and you all love school children dont you?
 
harbonah

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Now they wanna ban black powder. A Senator will be proposing a bill soon.

When are they going to ban gasoline? After someone, someday douches a nursery school with gasoline and lights in on fire then we must as responsible citizens give up our freedom to pump our own gas at a gas station and limit purchase to 1 gallon.

We can also ban all vehicles since they all can be used as a 2,000+ lb projectile. We must we must....someone can run into the school children lining up to get on a bus, and you all love school children dont you?
I have not read the link yet but wouldn't banning ammonium nitrate fertilizer make about as much sense..
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lukehayd

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Now they wanna ban black powder. A Senator will be proposing a bill soon.

http://www.examiner.com/article/senator-to-propose-bill-regulating-black-power-wake-of-boston-massacre

When are they going to ban gasoline? After someone, someday douches a nursery school with gasoline and lights in on fire then we must as responsible citizens give up our freedom to pump our own gas at a gas station and limit purchase to 1 gallon.

We can also ban all vehicles since they all can be used as a 2,000+ lb projectile. We must we must....someone can run into the school children lining up to get on a bus, and you all love school children dont you?

Sounds reasonable. ;)
 
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mustang0341

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Why not? What's the harm in extending background checks in person to person transactions, and enforcing them (because they aren't always enforced) at gun shows? Nothing. In fact the bill that was voted down, if you read the bill it included prohibiting the creation of a national gun registry, so removing that fear, what's the big deal? Even the current head of the NRA was for it before he was against it.

f?"
Background checks are one thing bro, the Toomey-Manchin bill does more to further deteriorate the 2nd Amendment than it does promote background checks. Please don't be "blind led by the censored ( mass media) " do your own research man. It is your 2nd Amendment right they want to take. NOTHING they could have passes or will pass will prevent ( insert mass shooting )

Well that's what you would say. I'd say in reviewing all the poll numbers, something to the tune of over 80 to 90% of the American people supported expansion of background checks.
Again bro, mass media polls . The media are nothing but talking heads regurgitating what the White House tells them.
Let's see your stats "bro." :/
Look up John Lott, he is the foremost expert on gun control and knows stats from not only the US, but UK, Austrailia, Norway, Sweden.... Etc.

That's a vote, not a poll which is more reflective of the wider "electorate." But nice attempt...
And do not the Senators "represent" the public. Or do you really believe the LIE that Obama stated : "a small minority effected the outcome by pressuring the Senate." If the "majority" of Americans wanted it, it would have passed.
 
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double post
 
mustang0341

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here is something to feast on for thought.... section 115 of the "Manchin-Toomey" bill

SEC. 115. ADDITIONAL PROTECTIONS FOR OUR VETERANS.
(a) In General.-Chapter 55 of title 38, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following new section:
"5511. Conditions for treatment of certain persons as adjudicated mentally incompetent for certain purposes
"(a) In General.-In any case arising out of the administration by the Secretary of laws and benefits under this title, a person who is determined by the Secretary to be mentally incompetent shall not be considered adjudicated pursuant to subsection (d)(4) or (g)(4) of section 922 of title 18 until-
"(1) in the case in which the person does not request a review as described in subsection (c)(1), the end of the 30-day period beginning on the date on which the person receives notice submitted under subsection (b); or
"(2) in the case in which the person requests a review as described in paragraph (1) of subsection (c), upon an assessment by the board designated or established under paragraph (2) of such subsection or court of competent jurisdiction that a person cannot safely use, carry, possess, or store a firearm due to mental incompetency.
"(b) Notice.-Notice submitted under this subsection to a person described in subsection (a) is notice submitted by the Secretary that notifies the person of the following:
"(1) The determination made by the Secretary.
"(2) A description of the implications of being considered adjudicated as a mental defective under subsection (d)(4) or (g)(4) of section 922 of title 18. ***see below
"(3) The person's right to request a review under subsection (c)(1).
"(c) Administrative Review.-(1) Not later than 30 days after the date on which a person described in subsection (a) receives notice submitted under subsection (b), such person may request a review by the board designed or established under paragraph (2) or a court of competent jurisdiction to assess whether a person cannot safely use, carry, possess, or store a firearm due to mental incompetency. In such assessment, the board may consider the person's honorable discharge or decoration.
"(2) Not later than 180 days after the date of enactment of the Public Safety and Second Amendment Rights Protection Act of 2013, the Secretary shall designate or establish a board that shall, upon request of a person under paragraph (1), assess whether a person cannot safely use, carry, possess, or store a firearm due to mental incompetency.
"(d) Judicial Review.-Not later than 30 days after the date of an assessment of a person under subsection (c) by the board designated or established under paragraph (2) of such subsection, such person may file a petition for judicial review of such assessment with a Federal court of competent jurisdiction.
"(e) Protecting Rights of Veterans With Existing Records.-Not later than 90 days after the date of enactment of the Public Safety and Second Amendment Rights Protection Act of 2013, the Secretary shall provide written notice of the opportunity for administrative review and appeal under subsection (c) to all persons who, on the date of enactment of the Public Safety and Second Amendment Rights Protection Act of 2013, are considered adjudicated pursuant to subsection (d)(4) or (g)(4) of section 922 of title 18 as a result of having been found by the Department of Veterans Affairs to be mentally incompetent.
"(f) Future Determinations.-
"(1) IN GENERAL.-Not later than 180 days after the enactment of the Public Safety and Second Amendment Rights Protection Act of 2013, the Secretary shall review the policies and procedures by which individuals are determined to be mentally incompetent, and shall revise such policies and procedures as necessary to ensure that any individual who is competent to manage his own financial affairs, including his receipt of Federal benefits, but who voluntarily turns over the management thereof to a fiduciary is not considered adjudicated pursuant to subsection (d)(4) or (g)(4) of section 922 of title 18.
"(2) REPORT.-Not later than 30 days after the Secretary has made the review and changes required under paragraph (1), the Secretary shall submit to Congress a report detailing the results of the review and any resulting policy and procedural changes.".
(b) Clerical Amendment.-The table of sections at the beginning of chapter 55 of such title is amended by adding at the end the following new item:
"5511. Conditions for treatment of certain persons as adjudicated mentally incompetent for certain purposes.".
(c) Applicability.-Section 5511 of title 38, United States Code (as added by this section), shall apply only with respect to persons who are determined by the Secretary of Veterans Affairs, on or after the date of the enactment of this Act, to be mentally incompetent, except that those persons who are provided notice pursuant to section 5511(e) shall be entitled to use the administrative review under section 5511(c) and, as necessary, the subsequent judicial review under section 5511(d).

** from above these are the sections of Title 18 sec 922 the bill refers to for "mental defective."
D(4) has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been
committed to any mental institution;
G(4) who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution;


my notes below
*NOTE THE BS TITLE TOO "additional protections" when all it talks about is taking rights not protecting them. So tell me, what part of this increases background checks? I am a Marine Veteran, a Law Abiding Citizen and a Gun Owner. I also am diagnosed with PTSD. What part of this bill or the "vague" section it refers to tells me what they deem "mentally defective." An administration that is working tirelessly to limit our 2nd Amendment Right is to be expected to "biasedly" adjudicate which veterans are able to carry a firearm? Yea right, Obama is A#1 and playing the emotions to get what HE WANTS passed. How many times do you hear the news mention, "former military etc with PTSD kills...etc"? Yes it does happen but all they will do is play on this to say Veterans with PTSD should not have weapons becuase look at what these few did. Complete and utter BS. I will not stand by and let the administration take away my 2nd Amendment right due to PTSD which I have from defending THIS COUNTRY. And the last part where it talks about "Protecting Rights of Veterans With Existing Recordsexisting records" all this is is taking records "old" records which should have been protected for their use. Thank You, I am so glad we love our veterans so much that we encourage them to talk about their problems. Now we are going to go back through all those records and if we find one thing we don't like then they will be "adjudicated" as such.

Fing Law Abiding Citizens is all this administration is about.
 
ax1

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Not for taking away anyone's guns, but expanded background checks is no brainer. Anyone against that is simply being unreasonable, paranoid and/or a combination of both.
Its going to become a registry. Ultimately its going to favor goverment vs. the people when its time to go door to door and confiscate guns.

They have done so in our recent past in New Orleans with Katrina for example. They went door to door and confiscated thousands of guns from law abiding gun owners. All they have to do is declare martial law for whatever reason (economy crashing, natural disaster, war, a small act of terrorism, etc...) and they know exactly where to go to pick up their prize.

I say the hell with background checks.



 

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