Unanswered Well I ordered some andros

[Old Witch]

Incidentally, now that I’m on it again for the first time in years, I’d say M1A is about 10x stronger than 1AD to the exact mg. And even then, still a bit stronger, waaaaay better pumps on 60mg Methyl 1AD than 600mg 1AD.

 

[Old Witch]

If sarms are what you’re interested in, anyone reading, about 25mg LGD4033 and 45mg ostarine is really really close to that same kind of effect for strength and pumps.

I basically go for the same feel every time. And if I’m not getting that, I up the dose til I do.

 

[Wobmarvel]

Interesting topics to read on. Have any links of what you have been reading. I would like to read up on this.

I will try and find them, I think they were mainly sarm based.

 

[Wobmarvel]

Can SARMs change the degree to which Testosterone activates the Androgen receptor?



Short answer: Yes.
Better answer: It depends.
Full answer: Since a SARM and Testosterone act on the same receptor, they will “compete”. However, some competition would result in relative inhibition, while other competition would result in relative amplification.
Let's imagine an athlete supplementing with Testosterone. Now he's adding a SARM... RAD-140 for example. This is the effect we would expect:

In the skeletal muscle you added a SARM to Testosterone, meaning you added more ligands, (or activating molecules) to the Androgen receptor. It would be molecularly equivalent to adding more Testosterone, since now you have more freely acting agents that bind and activate the Androgen receptors in that skeletal muscle.
In the prostate you also have those two compounds completing on binding to the Androgen receptor, but now there is a negative interaction the SARM has with the aforementioned co-regulatory molecules that exist in the prostate but not in the skeletal muscle. In this case when the SARM binds, the Androgen receptors is rendered less active. In such a way a SARM can either amplify or mitigate the activity of Testosterone in different tissues in the human body. Research on RAD-140 involving both cellular and animal models has actually supported this.

 

[Wobmarvel]

What determines if the Androgen receptors are activated or not?



The overwhelming majority of receptors in the human body, have a baseline activity. That means that given the total number of receptors in the human body, a fraction would be active, while a fraction would be inactive at any point in time. This is determined by the concentration of the ligand, in this case – Testosterone, in the circulation.
This means, that taking exogenous Testosterone causes an increase in free Testosterone concentration, which causes a greater fraction of the Androgen receptors to be bound and rendered active. Once the free Testosterone concentration decreases (i.e. You stop taking exogenous Testosterone) a fraction of the Androgen receptors would go back to their inactive state.

Do Androgen receptors “clear”? Do they “reset”?



This is where you get a lot of stupid statements made. The cells do not classically increase or decrease the number of Androgen receptors. There is a set amount. The effects mediated by these receptors are exclusively due to the ratio of active to inactive receptors. This is regulated by the concentration of the ligand (e.g. Testosterone).
That also means that above a certain amount of exogenous Testosterone – any additional amount wouldn't have an additional effect, since receptors have achieved saturation. In this case – more Testosterone doesn't mean more effect, but it may indeed result in more side effects.

 

[Jeremyk1]

Can SARMs change the degree to which Testosterone activates the Androgen receptor?

The issue I note with most articles written about androgens is that they look at one piece of information (possible a few pieces, but not much) and make definitive statements based on that. They (usually) miss the big picture. Androgen receptors don’t “fill” and I highly doubt you’d ever saturate yours. A lot of people still talk about filling or saturating androgen receptors based on diminishing returns. For example, someone can take 500mg of test, and gain lots of muscle, for a while. After 3 or 4 months, gains slow substantially, often even coming to a halt. He can continue dosing and maintain, come off and lose some gains, or increase dose and gain more. If this hypothetical bodybuilder had full receptors, he would lose gains by maintaining his dose, and a bigger dose wouldn’t help. Yet, I’d bet if he started taking a gram, he’d be able to gain some more.

 

[Wobmarvel]

The issue I note with most articles written about androgens is that they look at one piece of information (possible a few pieces, but not much) and make definitive statements based on that. They (usually) miss the big picture. Androgen receptors don’t “fill” and I highly doubt you’d ever saturate yours. A lot of people still talk about filling or saturating androgen receptors based on diminishing returns. For example, someone can take 500mg of test, and gain lots of muscle, for a while. After 3 or 4 months, gains slow substantially, often even coming to a halt. He can continue dosing and maintain, come off and lose some gains, or increase dose and gain more. If this hypothetical bodybuilder had full receptors, he would lose gains by maintaining his dose, and a bigger dose wouldn’t help. Yet, I’d bet if he started taking a gram, he’d be able to gain some more.

Makes sense. There has to be a reason why, when you read what the pros use there are like 9 different compounds all at crazy high dosages. Just sharing stuff I've read.

 

[Wobmarvel]

Here's an example thrown around on the internet of a pro cycle

1-10 Testosterone Enanthate, 750mg a week (1000-1200mg advanced)
1-10 EQ, 800mg a week (1000mg advanced)
1-10 Tren E, 600mg/week (800mg advanced)
1-8  D-Bol, 50mg every day (up to 100mg advanced)
10-16 100mg Testosterone prop EOD (100mg ED advanced)
10-16 100mg Trenbolone Acetate EOD (75-100mg ED advanced)
10-16 100mg Masteron propionate EOD (100mg ED advanced)
10-16 50mg Winstrol or Anavar ED (sometime I do both)
8-16 Start T3 at 25mcg ED and taper up as needed.
12-16 Halotestin, start at 20mg ED and increase by 10mg every week (not a good choice for those who aren't mentally strong.)

Pharmaceutical GH 6-12 IU ED for the whole cycle (If people can afford more then the sky is the limit. I know guys who've gone up to 30 IU but this is rare.)

Insulin For advanced lifters only! 5-10 IU pre-workout followed by drinking Plazma right away. This is a moderate dosage, a lot of guys are using much more.

 

[Wobmarvel]

Plus this at the same time

Nolvadex (Tamoxifen): 20mg ED for the whole cycle, taper up if needed starting at 6 weeks out.

Arimidex for the whole cycle starting at 1mg EOD and taper up as needed from 6 weeks out.

Provironstarting at 8 weeks out at 25mg ED and taper up as the show gets closer, up to 100mg ED.

 

[Wobmarvel]

I think looking at this even if there was a point of saturation then the average guy running 500mg test per week plus a couple of orals isn't gonna hit it.

So no harm in the OP trying his andro cycle. Personally think you could get similar effects for way less cash but I live in the UK so can get my hands on more powerful orals.

 

[Colin]

M1A at about 60mg a day would produce a similar effect to test E 250mg/wk. probably some faster weight gain too. Won’t have that good mental feeling though. The effect is remarkably comparable, though. First thought on my mind when the batch I’m on kicked in was that it was pretty much just as strong as the test I had just tried before that. The blood pressure effect is increased versus test, too. Kind of like a light dose of dianabol as far as BP.

But that wouldn’t be a base. For something to use as a base you would want androhard, which will give that good mental feeling.

There are also real old school 4AD products available online from the UK but if you remember, that stuff had to be taken every three hours for the least side effects. Otherwise your levels go all fucky.

And there was an oxandrodiol product out for awhile, called anavar-diol. Literally what it was, the diol precursor to anavar.

Good advice here but I did a search on M1A and it appears to be the same compound that converts to Methyl1T....I def remember that PH from the early 2000's.

Liver toxicity was thru the roof and I recall reading numerous reports of feeling completely shut down from 2 werk cycles.

I may be wrong, but M1A is something I def would not want to try.

AndroHard, I recall from back when I was a board rep for Primordial Performance, I know it is at least a safe compound. Never used it myself as I had real test base powder (homebrewed topically) and real test e powder (ran seperately via homebrewed IM injections).

I'd like ro get your take on AndroHard by itself as a mimic/stopgap/replacement for running real test cycles.

I am around 250, just got back into lifting a month ago....gained 50+ pounds of fat fover the past 6 years since I stopped lifting and dowt went rits up.

Dieting ,eating clean now, and not looking to bulk, for obvious reasons. lol.

Fat loss and regaining lost muscle are my goals. I lifted from age 25-36 steadily, started using PH's around 28 and graduated to AAS at 30.

I realize it'll take a good year of hard training, dieting with 30 day on and 30 day off androgen cycles* ,to get back into shape.

Any advice on AndroHard dosing, or anything else, would be appreciated. I could run it with a UK 4ad PH, dosing evrry 3 hours is doable.

 

[Old Witch]

Shutdown is inevitable on steroids.

Liver toxicity is inevitable on effective orals.

Not really sure what you’re getting at.

 

[Old Witch]

The m1A would be much milder than M1T for sure, and only about as strong as a fast acting injectable test in effect.

Androhard would be for the feeling only.

Those together would be pretty damn close in effect and feeling to just pinning some test.

 

[stopstalking]

The m1A would be much milder than M1T for sure, and only about as strong as a fast acting injectable test in effect.

Androhard would be for the feeling only.

Those together would be pretty damn close in effect and feeling to just pinning some test.

Is M1A avails legally in the us ?

 

[Old Witch]

Is M1A avails legally in the us ?

Yes

 

[Jinsun]

So I once did a Spartan Cerberus V2 short cycle. Cyclosome delivery, supposed to be better then I don't know what. Dosing was supposedly 380mg 1 andro and 4 andro and 600mg epiandro.

I did bloods two weeks in if I remember correctly. I was shutdown, that was to be expected, but my test levels were also below lab range as was my estrogen. E2 was I think at 10. Which is way bellow. I felt like crap so I pinned test prop and after 3 days or some test e.

My skin got really bad on this stuff. Especially shoulders. Big under the skin acne that wouldn't go away for quite some time. I don't get this on test at all so it was definetly the andro stack or what ever was in that money wasted bottle. This chit is really expensive. Results? Didn't really notice any tbh and it's hard to tell bc I took test. But test was only at 250mg sooo I should have noticed supposedly the andro stack - but I didn't.

So lesson learned. Andros are expensive, they don't do much, especially 4 andro regarding test conversion, you have no idea what you are actually buying. I paid like 200€ for that crappy 6 week cycle that didn't do anything. For that money you can get reall var, or primo for 12 weeks! Albeit primo at a lower dosage hehe. Or anything else enough for a couple of cycles! It's just stupid how expensive and weak this andros are. And it seems in no matter how many threads I writte this, people still end up buying them haha

 

[Colin]

I feel you on pinning getting to be a pain as it’s so much easier to swallow a pill...if you check an older post of mine.. I tried to take a break from pinning test and got real 4-ad androtest which is the 1 step conversion to test.. and I mega dosed it and it honestly felt nothing like test at all.. like I felt edgy and kinda crappy.. my guess is that the precursor itself has the main effect in the body and doesn’t convert much at all to testosterone.. I would have loved to have gotten bloods taken to see test levels..

I never minded pinning, but i only pinned test e, so pinning once every 4 days wasnt too problematic. Pinning test orop or cyp daily woulda been hellish tho.

curious if you have any thoughts on "liquid labs te"
i may give that a go, stand alone or with androhard.

alternately with low dose havoc ( 5mg twice a day).
ladt time i ran havoc i found that 10mg per day (half a cap morbing, hakf a cap night) to be a decent 6 week stand alone cycle.

 

[Colin]

M1A at about 60mg a day would produce a similar effect to test E 250mg/wk. probably some faster weight gain too. Won’t have that good mental feeling though. The effect is remarkably comparable, though. First thought on my mind when the batch I’m on kicked in was that it was pretty much just as strong as the test I had just tried before that. The blood pressure effect is increased versus test, too. Kind of like a light dose of dianabol as far as BP.

But that wouldn’t be a base. For something to use as a base you would want androhard, which will give that good mental feeling.

There are also real old school 4AD products available online from the UK but if you remember, that stuff had to be taken every three hours for the least side effects. Otherwise your levels go all fucky.

And there was an oxandrodiol product out for awhile, called anavar-diol. Literally what it was, the diol precursor to anavar.

Did some more research....contemplating liquid labs te ran as a test base with possibly androhard as a secondary test base of sorts. androhard conberts to dht apparently, and im not a fan of dht compounds tho due to having pretty bad knees, nearly a torn RC aaaand lower back issues....so androhard wouldnt be dosed at full dosing, just enough to help with mood/lethargy...will start with half label.dosing and tirate from there...on that note, do you think that androhard would have the "feel good/mental" benefits that you described (paraphrased) from half dosing?
fwiw, i responded well to a solo run of havoc at 10mg per day, 6 week cycle, years ago.

while im on this topic, are there any otc pct products that will actually work for pct?
i dont have a source for clomid , at least one i have used before, and i highly doubt that fagodia or tribulus will be sufficient for a proper PCT

 

[Old Witch]

Nothing otc in the US works for PCT.

You can get 6oxo and ATD or formestane from UK websites.

You can get Research grade PCT from a place like MA Research or PRE

 

[stopstalking]

Today is my 4th day on the andros. So far no negative feeling from them. Yesterday was my first workout on them and the pumps were insane. I would say equivalent to injectable cycles I’ve done.

Super mandro 330 mg
Andro the giant 6660m
Androvar (epi Andro) 600 mg


I have notice about 1-2 hour after dosing I sweat very easily. Also about 2 hours after dosing I have experienced random boners. Sex drive seems to be up after dosing. I’ve been breaking my dosing into 4 times a day.

 

[stopstalking]

Today is my 4th day on the andros. So far no negative feeling from them. Yesterday was my first workout on them and the pumps were insane. I would say equivalent to injectable cycles I’ve done.

Super mandro 330 mg
Andro the giant 6660m
Androvar (epi Andro) 600 mg


I have notice about 1-2 hour after dosing I sweat very easily. Also about 2 hours after dosing I have experienced random boners. Sex drive seems to be up after dosing. I’ve been breaking my dosing into 4 times a day.

Also I know many people like ramping up the doses but i always start where i wanna run it and work my way back down if needed. Not sure if it’s the best approach but works for me.

 

[johnny412]

I never minded pinning, but i only pinned test e, so pinning once every 4 days wasnt too problematic. Pinning test orop or cyp daily woulda been hellish tho.

curious if you have any thoughts on "liquid labs te"
i may give that a go, stand alone or with androhard.

alternately with low dose havoc ( 5mg twice a day).
ladt time i ran havoc i found that 10mg per day (half a cap morbing, hakf a cap night) to be a decent 6 week stand alone cycle.

how did you take half a capsule?

 

[Old Witch]

how did you take half a capsule?

Personally I just empty them out, divide the powder in half by weight, take half.

 

[johnny412]

Personally I just empty them out, divide the powder in half by weight, take half.

with the halflife of epistane would you even need to split the dose like that1/

 

[Colin]

how did you take half a capsule?

Opened it up, emptied approcimately half into a Now empty gelcap.

 

[Colin]

with the halflife of epistane would you even need to split the dose like that1/

Cant remember the half life but I always did due diligence before deciding on dosing compounds.

 

[Wobmarvel]

Cant remember the half life but I always did due diligence before deciding on dosing compounds.

6 hours I believe

 

[Colin]

Here's an example thrown around on the internet of a pro cycle

1-10 Testosterone Enanthate, 750mg a week (1000-1200mg advanced)
1-10 EQ, 800mg a week (1000mg advanced)
1-10 Tren E, 600mg/week (800mg advanced)
1-8  D-Bol, 50mg every day (up to 100mg advanced)
10-16 100mg Testosterone prop EOD (100mg ED advanced)
10-16 100mg Trenbolone Acetate EOD (75-100mg ED advanced)
10-16 100mg Masteron propionate EOD (100mg ED advanced)
10-16 50mg Winstrol or Anavar ED (sometime I do both)
8-16 Start T3 at 25mcg ED and taper up as needed.
12-16 Halotestin, start at 20mg ED and increase by 10mg every week (not a good choice for those who aren't mentally strong.)

Pharmaceutical GH 6-12 IU ED for the whole cycle (If people can afford more then the sky is the limit. I know guys who've gone up to 30 IU but this is rare.)

Insulin For advanced lifters only! 5-10 IU pre-workout followed by drinking Plazma right away. This is a moderate dosage, a lot of guys are using much more.

Cycles like this are why most pro's drop dead before they hit 45.

I pinned test e solo at 500mg a week pretty much for 6 years straight (cycled on and off with clomid as pct).

Ran anavar at 50mg ED on about half a dozen of my test e cycles.

Biggest I ever got was 195 (5'10" around 10% bf).

Never wanted to be a pro, all I cared about was being lean, muscular, healthy and maintaining/increasing functional strength & lung caoacity (worked as a brick layer back than).

My goals are the same now, after getting out of "the lifestyle".

To each his own...

...but I will say that if anyone is contemplating taking such liberal doses of multiple duh-rugz, a serious reevaluation of one's priorities in life, is in order.

 

[Old Witch]

Cycles like this are why most pro's drop dead before they hit 45.

I pinned test e solo at 500mg a week pretty much for 6 years straight (cycled on and off with clomid as pct).

Ran anavar at 50mg ED on about half a dozen of my test e cycles.

Biggest I ever got was 195 (5'10" around 10% bf).

Never wanted to be a pro, all I cared about was being lean, muscular, healthy and maintaining/increasing functional strength & lung caoacity (worked as a brick layer back than).

My goals are the same now, after getting out of "the lifestyle".

To each his own...

...but I will say that if anyone is contemplating taking such liberal doses of multiple duh-rugz, a serious reevaluation of one's priorities in life, is in order.

Biggest I ever got was around 270ish 18-ish percent bodyfat 6’3” sort of like an off season 70s pro and I never needed to take this much. I had been trying some winstrol and anavar to cut down to 10% round about when life changed for the much worse.

If this is a real prep or cycle, this guy doesn’t know his own body, taking a ton of tren, so he’s flat, so he’s gotta take DBol.


So then he’s bloated and needs masteron and halo and not just winstrol...

It’s a mess.

Take DHB, no tren, primo and halotestin, no DBol, no winstrol, don’t cut so deep. **** most guys could go from bulk to stage in eight weeks or less with my ideas.

 

[Wobmarvel]

Biggest I ever got was around 270ish 18-ish percent bodyfat 6’3” sort of like an off season 70s pro and I never needed to take this much. I had been trying some winstrol and anavar to cut down to 10% round about when life changed for the much worse.

Not suggesting anyone should be doing this, more suggesting that the fact some people do means my statement about saturated androgen receptors can't really be a think. So basically just debunking myself... Story of my life.

 

[Jinsun]

...but I will say that if anyone is contemplating taking such liberal doses of multiple duh-rugz, a serious reevaluation of one's priorities in life, is in order.

Focusing so much on body image as we do, is dysfunctional in itself. Drugs, in whatever dosage, just deepen the problem... Big dosages like this just mean, you don't care that much about yourself.

 

[Corinbeauvais]

Why does everyone bother with this dhea crap?? i Guess younger guys have no Idea of the REAL andro that are available if you look around..

My dear friend, could you extrapolate on this comment?

 

[johnny412]

My dear friend, could you extrapolate on this comment?

hey now....theres no call for that kind of language!

 

[Renew1]

hey now....theres no call for that kind of language!

I got pretty well extrapolated in a divorce years ago.
It really stings.

 

[Jinsun]

My dear friend, could you extrapolate on this comment?

4 dhea, 1 dhea, is not the same as 1AD or 4AD.