Unanswered Well I ordered some andros

[stopstalking]

I’m currently running mk677, rad140 and now I just went for it and picked up Andro the giant, super mandro and androvar

Thinking I’m gonna run the Andro the giant double dose, and the mandro and androvar and regular dose. Yes I have supper supps and a solid pct. think these doses are okay ?

 

[bradleyt1]

Why does everyone bother with this dhea crap?? i Guess younger guys have no Idea of the REAL andro that are available if you look around..

 

[Afi140]

I’m currently running mk677, rad140 and now I just went for it and picked up Andro the giant, super mandro and androvar

Thinking I’m gonna run the Andro the giant double dose, and the mandro and androvar and regular dose. Yes I have supper supps and a solid pct. think these doses are okay ?

Those are good doses. Definitely don’t exceed the 600mg of giant though. I might ease into that dose but overall the stack should be very good.

As to the post above there are many reasons people choose the current andros. Might not want to do anything illegal first off. People might also want to keep side effects at a minimum as cycled tend to be much more enjoyable. Lastly, the andros are proven effective and at 8 weeks much of the gains attained are keepable (which definitely isn’t the case with some other wet compounds).

 

[stopstalking]

Why does everyone bother with this dhea crap?? i Guess younger guys have no Idea of the REAL andro that are available if you look around..

I’ve taken all the OG stuff, M1T, superdrol, tren, etc. along with most injectables. I really just wanted to give this a shot and see what they are about. Tired of pinning and thought it was at least worth a shot.

 

[stopstalking]

Those are good doses. Definitely don’t exceed the 600mg of giant though. I might ease into that dose but overall the stack should be very good.

As to the post above there are many reasons people choose the current andros. Might not want to do anything illegal first off. People might also want to keep side effects at a minimum as cycled tend to be much more enjoyable. Lastly, the andros are proven effective and at 8 weeks much of the gains attained are keepable (which definitely isn’t the case with some other wet compounds).

I have Aromasin on hand also. Should I wait to start it or start right away. Not to sure what to expect with estrogen sides from 4andro. Also what dose Aromasin would you start at ? Thanks !

 

[bradleyt1]

I’ve taken all the OG stuff, M1T, superdrol, tren, etc. along with most injectables. I really just wanted to give this a shot and see what they are about. Tired of pinning and thought it was at least worth a shot.

I feel you on pinning getting to be a pain as it’s so much easier to swallow a pill...if you check an older post of mine.. I tried to take a break from pinning test and got real 4-ad androtest which is the 1 step conversion to test.. and I mega dosed it and it honestly felt nothing like test at all.. like I felt edgy and kinda crappy.. my guess is that the precursor itself has the main effect in the body and doesn’t convert much at all to testosterone.. I would have loved to have gotten bloods taken to see test levels..

 

[bradleyt1]

Those are good doses. Definitely don’t exceed the 600mg of giant though. I might ease into that dose but overall the stack should be very good.

As to the post above there are many reasons people choose the current andros. Might not want to do anything illegal first off. People might also want to keep side effects at a minimum as cycled tend to be much more enjoyable. Lastly, the andros are proven effective and at 8 weeks much of the gains attained are keepable (which definitely isn’t the case with some other wet compounds).

I mean as far as illegal.. people order the original 4-ad Androtest from the UK all the time with no problems.. and as far as testosterone.. plenty of anti-aging clinics that will give you a pretty above average dose of test per week. I just i from experience the dhea isomers come out with all these silly delivery systems and I feel they are a gimmick

 

[cheftepesh1]

As far as your stack I think your good. I would increase dosing slowly as it is easier to find the best mg for yourself.

 

[stopstalking]

As far as your stack I think your good. I would increase dosing slowly as it is easier to find the best mg for yourself.

Any advice on the Aromasin ? Dose and should I start it day 1 ?

 

[Afi140]

Any advice on the Aromasin ? Dose and should I start it day 1 ?

I wouldn’t start it until you have some sensitivity tbh. I feel like it’s pretty mild and I have never had any estro issues from 4-andro. If you want to for peace of mind maybe low dose 12.5mg eod and adjust accordingly.

 

[stopstalking]

I wouldn’t start it until you have some sensitivity tbh. I feel like it’s pretty mild and I have never had any estro issues from 4-andro. If you want to for peace of mind maybe low dose 12.5mg eod and adjust accordingly.

Thank you. I’ll prob give it a week or two and add 12.5 eod if needed

 

[Colin]

You are using 6 anabolics?

Less is more.

 

[stopstalking]

You are using 6 anabolics?

Less is more.

I’m actually cutting out the GW. Will continue the rad and mk677. Will and the andros

 

[Colin]

I mean as far as illegal.. people order the original 4-ad Androtest from the UK all the time with no problems.. and as far as testosterone.. plenty of anti-aging clinics that will give you a pretty above average dose of test per week. I just i from experience the dhea isomers come out with all these silly delivery systems and I feel they are a gimmick

Why do you think the delivery systems are gimmicks?

 

[Colin]

I’m actually cutting out the GW. Will continue the rad and mk677. Will and the andros

Still seems like overkill.

 

[stopstalking]

Still seems like overkill.

I know the 1andro/4adro are supposed to stack well together. My thinking is the the higher Androgenic ratio in the androvar will help increase the almost non existent sex drive I have from the rad140.

 

[stopstalking]

Still seems like overkill.

Also I’m open to suggestions as what you would change.

 

[Wobmarvel]

I’m actually cutting out the GW. Will continue the rad and mk677. Will and the andros

You didn't even say you were taking gw, anyway that doesn't compete for the same receptors. I have been reading a lot about how stacking can be less effective than running singles when it comes to orals. Debate has been going for a while.

 

[Wobmarvel]

GW (if you mean cardarine) and mk are fine to add to anything. Rad and the Andros will compete and your results will be primarily based on whichever attaches most with the rest excreted or converted to useless compounds possibly increasing negative sides such as lethargy.

 

[stopstalking]

You didn't even say you were taking gw, anyway that doesn't compete for the same receptors. I have been reading a lot about how stacking can be less effective than running singles when it comes to orals. Debate has been going for a while.

Oh I have been taking it for the last 8 weeks but honestly don’t notice much from it. The mk677 has been awesome for sleep, recovery.

 

[Colin]

Also I’m open to suggestions as what you would change.

Id just run the 2 andro's by themselves, at regular dosing. the fact that youre having sex drive issues is indicitive that youre fucking with your hpta....less is more, my dude.
No sense in making recovery harder.

 

[Old Witch]

Not sure you’re going to get much for results off such weak stuff but we can hope.

 

[Old Witch]

You didn't even say you were taking gw, anyway that doesn't compete for the same receptors. I have been reading a lot about how stacking can be less effective than running singles when it comes to orals. Debate has been going for a while.

GW (if you mean cardarine) and mk are fine to add to anything. Rad and the Andros will compete and your results will be primarily based on whichever attaches most with the rest excreted or converted to useless compounds possibly increasing negative sides such as lethargy.

No.

 

[Old Witch]

Still seems like overkill.

No. Underkill. Not even kill.


For one, GW and mk are more like year round supplements versus cyclable anabolics, so they don’t even factor in.

Secondly, andros are weak as ****, there is zero point in using them unless you’re taking close to a gram of each, which he plans to.

Thirdly, stacking a sarm like rad 140 with a steroid or a stack of steroids would be the ideal.


This is a decent stack. Could use stronger steroids... but this might work.

 

[bradleyt1]

Why do you think the delivery systems are gimmicks?

Because it’s been a joke for years now! Come advanced muscle science first with the liquid under the tongue.. than tablet under the tongue.. than effervescent blah blah.. I mean don’t get me wrong the original andros from the 2000s had weird systems too but they actually worked as in they were 1 step.. all these 2 steps I just never saw much of anything from them besides waste an insane amount of money!!

 

[Old Witch]

Because it’s been a joke for years now! Come advanced muscle science first with the liquid under the tongue.. than tablet under the tongue.. than effervescent blah blah.. I mean don’t get me wrong the original andros from the 2000s had weird systems too but they actually worked as in they were 1 step.. all these 2 steps I just never saw much of anything from them besides waste an insane amount of money!!

3 weeks into 1 andro at 600mg I finally started getting the results I’d see in a week on 1AD at 300mg or one single day of M1T.

 

[bradleyt1]

3 weeks into 1 andro at 600mg I finally started getting the results I’d see in a week on 1AD at 300mg or one single day of M1T.

Hey I don’t know if you chimes in on the other thread but besides anabolic pharmaceuticals 1-AD do you know any other brands of 1-AD?? I’m guessing all UK based

 

[Wobmarvel]

No.

This is definitely a thing. I'm just not good at explaining myself. Testosterone has one fifth the binding affinity of dht for example. Some say "well then you need to take 5 times as much to get an even Ballance" others say " there are only so many receptors to go round" so depending on the dosing of dht, test won't get a look in and you end up with higher conversion rates to estrogen i.e. worse sides. We know that every compound has a point of diminished returns, I believe that this is a factor. I have read studies, cant find them just now but will post if I do so you can rip them apart.

I think that there is also more evidence for receptor competition when stacking sarms as they are all selective and again you end up with a lot of waste. If sarms being studied end up being used for medical treatments I guarantee that they won't be stacked. You pick the one that will do the job you need then move on. I've stacked them myself in the past cos a lot of sites selling them obviously want you to thing you need 4 compounds at a time, take ostarine as a base for lean gains and healing then stack with lgd or rad to really add mass then throw in S4 to bring out the hardness and vascularity.

 

[Old Witch]

This is definitely a thing. I'm just not good at explaining myself. Testosterone has one fifth the binding affinity of dht for example. Some say "well then you need to take 5 times as much to get an even Ballance" others say " there are only so many receptors to go round" so depending on the dosing of dht, test won't get a look in and you end up with higher conversion rates to estrogen i.e. worse sides. We know that every compound has a point of diminished returns, I believe that this is a factor. I have read studies, cant find them just now but will post if I do so you can rip them apart.

I think that there is also more evidence for receptor competition when stacking sarms as they are all selective and again you end up with a lot of waste. If sarms being studied end up being used for medical treatments I guarantee that they won't be stacked. You pick the one that will do the job you need then move on. I've stacked them myself in the past cos a lot of sites selling them obviously want you to thing you need 4 compounds at a time, take ostarine as a base for lean gains and healing then stack with lgd or rad to really add mass then throw in S4 to bring out the hardness and vascularity.

This is definitely a broscience thing, yes.

In reality, this is not how drugs work, secondly steroids do not competitively bind to receptors, they activate them and move on. Receptor affinity has to do with how often/easily this occurs. Only tren or another notable anti-androgen can block another steroid from attaching to the AR.

 

[Old Witch]

The point of diminishing returns as far as steroids are concerned is in the grams per day dosing. It takes a hell of a lot.

 

[Wobmarvel]

The point of diminishing returns as far as steroids are concerned is in the grams per day dosing. It takes a hell of a lot.

So is this the same for sarms? Or do we not really know? A lot of people will say with rad 140 for example that 20-30 mg is the sweet spot and any more will see no further benefits but more sides. Is this also bro?

 

[Old Witch]

So is this the same for sarms? Or do we not really know? A lot of people will say with rad 140 for example that 20-30 mg is the sweet spot and any more will see no further benefits but more sides. Is this also bro?

This is also bro.

You also need to remember that every time you double the dose of any anabolic you only get a 30% increase in effect. It is exactly the same as audio volume production. Doubling the power gets you 30% more. It is the golden ratio at work. The Pythagorean theorem follows the exact same ratio.

So at a certain point you aren’t doubling the dose anymore, not seeing more positives, only more negatives. Make sense?

 

[Old Witch]

20mg vs 40mg you’ll notice more effects.

40mg vs 60mg you’ll notice more sides.

It would take 80mg to increase the effect.

 

[Wobmarvel]

This is also bro.

You also need to remember that every time you double the dose of any anabolic you only get a 30% increase in effect. It is exactly the same as audio volume production. Doubling the power gets you 30% more. It is the golden ratio at work. The Pythagorean theorem follows the exact same ratio.

So at a certain point you aren’t doubling the dose anymore, not seeing more positives, only more negatives. Make sense?

Cool. So negative aspects increase by 30% too? Doesn't make sense. If an anabolic oral elevated liver enzymes by 30% then doubling the dose would only raise them by 39% I.e. thirty percent of the original elevation.

If smoking 100 fags a day increases your chance of lung cancer by 50% smoking 200 fags increases it by 65%

Sorry for derailing the thread, loving these conversations whilst trying to get my kids to sleep.

 

[Old Witch]

Cool. So negative aspects increase by 30% too? Doesn't make sense. If an anabolic oral elevated liver enzymes by 30% then doubling the dose would only raise them by 39% I.e. thirty percent of the original elevation.

If smoking 100 fags a day increases your chance of lung cancer by 50% smoking 200 fags increases it by 65%

Sorry for derailing the thread, loving these conversations whilst trying to get my kids to sleep.

No. Doubling the dose doubles toxic exposure. Negative effects are directly additive but positive effects are rational. It’s why you can’t just take 160mg of rad and call it good.

 

[Wobmarvel]

No. Doubling the dose doubles toxic exposure. Negative effects are additive but positive effects are rational. It’s why you can’t just take 160mg of rad and call it good.

Well that's just a big hairy pile of sh1t!!

Anyway, on with the show gentlemen, I'll shut up now.

 

[stopstalking]

No. Doubling the dose doubles toxic exposure. Negative effects are directly additive but positive effects are rational. It’s why you can’t just take 160mg of rad and call it good.

Is liver toxicity really an issue with Rad ?

 

[Wobmarvel]

Hang on I'm back. Btw that last comment wasn't aimed at you. It's the toxic effect doubling that's sh1t.. as in a downer.

How come 40mg dbol is more effective than 10mg? By the 30% rule then 1mg should be optimal then 2mg will be 30% extra of the effects of 1mg and so on.

 

[Old Witch]

Hang on I'm back. Btw that last comment wasn't aimed at you. It's the toxic effect doubling that's sh1t.. as in a downer.

How come 40mg dbol is more effective than 10mg? By the 30% rule then 1mg should be optimal then 2mg will be 30% extra of the effects of 1mg and so on.

Optimal at 1mg? Says whom? Dianabol doesn’t even start being effective until 15mg. This is why it was prescribed at 5mg 3x per day. And that wasn’t even enough to do it for some people.

Different drugs have different effective dosages to start with. Optimal dosage would be the point where doubling the dose to get another 30% increase is too toxic for sure by far, the point of diminishing return for an oral.

If 80mg winstrol gets you x result, it will take 160mg to get a 30% better result. It will be twice as toxic, though. So 80-100mg is the point of diminishing returns for winstrol and in fact many orals. Anadrol and S4 are some of the few you can take as much as 160mg.

 

[Wobmarvel]

Optimal at 1mg? Says whom? Dianabol doesn’t even start being effective until 15mg. This is why it was prescribed at 5mg 3x per day. And that wasn’t even enough to do it for some people.

Different drugs have different effective dosages to start with. Optimal dosage would be the point where doubling the dose to get another 30% increase is too toxic for sure by far, the point of diminishing return for an oral.

I realise that, that was my point. So there is a point where you can double an anabolic and actually double the positive effects. The 30% rule only kicks in beyond optimal dosing? Which I also assume varies from person to person based on sex, height, weight, stimulus.

 

[Old Witch]

I realise that, that was my point. So there is a point where you can double an anabolic and actually double the positive effects. The 30% rule only kicks in beyond optimal dosing? Which I also assume varies from person to person based on sex, height, weight, stimulus.

Well each dose will affect each man differently but it will come down to this: if at a certain dose you are at x for sides, adding any amount more without fully doubling to dose will not be noticeably more anabolic in any meaningful way. You will however notice exactly that much more side effect.

Also none of this accounts for the actual effective dosage thresholds.

A few mgs can make or break a dose when it’s near the threshold of effect. That 30% rule can’t apply if there aren’t effects to be had.

 

[Old Witch]

It’s important here also to distinguish that this 30% return with each doubling of the dose is reflected by the studies, regarded as the general rule of thumb for dosing steroids. I didn’t just make it up. Much like audio volume production. It’s an actual fact of the data, reflected in the data, and repeatable. It’s only a minor part of our discussion, not the crux of the matter. The crux of the matter is, when is the point of diminishing returns reached?

 

[Old Witch]

Is liver toxicity really an issue with Rad ?

At 30 and likely 60mg not really, no. At 120mg I’m sure it is.

 

[Colin]

No. Underkill. Not even kill.


For one, GW and mk are more like year round supplements versus cyclable anabolics, so they don’t even factor in.

Secondly, andros are weak as ****, there is zero point in using them unless you’re taking close to a gram of each, which he plans to.

Thirdly, stacking a sarm like rad 140 with a steroid or a stack of steroids would be the ideal.


This is a decent stack. Could use stronger steroids... but this might work.

Tbh, ive been out of the loop on ph's for well over a decade. I was basing my thoughts on ph compounds from years ago, thinking 4ad wasnt as apparently weak as the ph's i used years ago.

apparently the only ph thst is a "test base"...close to test anyway, is actually underdosed shite? Well, that def is not good news.

Last ph's I used were havoc....definitely potent at regular dosing.Hurt my joints tho.

Also 1-t tren, very potent at regular dosing.

11oxo was also good, not as strong as it wasnt an anabolic per se.

I dropped ph's entirely when i got a source for bulk powders (test e and var) in around 2007.

wish that guy was still around, just got back into training this month and natural isnt feasible at my age and body comp....apparently neither are ph's....they never really were tho, compared to test cycles.

 

[Old Witch]

Tbh, ive been out of the loop on ph's for well over a decade. I was basing my thoughts on ph compounds from years ago, thinking 4ad wasnt as apparently weak as the ph's i used years ago.

apparently the only ph thst is a "test base"...close to test anyway, is actually underdosed shite? Well, that def is not good news.

Last ph's I used were havoc....definitely potent at regular dosing.Hurt my joints tho.

Also 1-t tren, very potent at regular dosing.

11oxo was also good, not as strong as it wasnt an anabolic per se.

I dropped ph's entirely when i got a source for bulk powders (test e and var) in around 2007.

wish that guy was still around, just got back into training this month and natural isnt feasible at my age and body comp....apparently neither are ph's....they never really were tho, compared to test cycles.

And that’s all pretty sound reasoning, those compounds were strong enough.

These andros are just not very strong, and sarms, well they’re definitely not comparable to oral steroids even though the doses are similar. They’re more like injectables, they’re not rapid acting unless you take a LOT. They’re for longer winded cycles yielding low gains at the doses you see thrown around.

 

[stopstalking]

At 30 and likely 60mg not really, no. At 120mg I’m sure it is.

I’ve been dozing 40 and from what I can tell it’s been better since moving up from 30.... or maybe it’s just I’m starting to notice the gains now

 

[Colin]

And that’s all pretty sound reasoning, those compounds were strong enough.

These andros are just not very strong, and sarms, well they’re definitely not comparable to oral steroids even though the doses are similar. They’re more like injectables, they’re not rapid acting unless you take a LOT. They’re for longer winded cycles yielding low gains at the doses you see thrown around.

Can you suggest any PH's that are currently available that would be fairly comparable to a say, a lower dose test e 250mg/week cycle?

or do all of the 4ad like compounds (that convert to test) take 4x times or more suggested label dosing to have any signifigant effect?

far as anabolics go, only one i really think is worth ising, fdom a sagety, efficacy, sides and cost ratio is test.

i always loved var too but i know there is nothing on the legal market that magically cinverts ro var in the body.

 

[JoePaul39]

You didn't even say you were taking gw, anyway that doesn't compete for the same receptors. I have been reading a lot about how stacking can be less effective than running singles when it comes to orals. Debate has been going for a while.

Interesting topics to read on. Have any links of what you have been reading. I would like to read up on this.

 

[JoePaul39]

3 weeks into 1 andro at 600mg I finally started getting the results I’d see in a week on 1AD at 300mg or one single day of M1T.

Ya, that is why I sold my supply of 6 bottles of 1 andro for dirt cheap recently. As a first or 2nd cycle though I think they are useful, but certainly not for an intermediate or advanced anabolic user unless one were to run it at at near 1000mg a day 1 andro and that would be FN expensive so it wouldn’t make any sense from a cost perspective.

 

[Old Witch]

Can you suggest any PH's that are currently available that would be fairly comparable to a say, a lower dose test e 250mg/week cycle?

or do all of the 4ad like compounds (that convert to test) take 4x times or more suggested label dosing to have any signifigant effect?

far as anabolics go, only one i really think is worth ising, fdom a sagety, efficacy, sides and cost ratio is test.

i always loved var too but i know there is nothing on the legal market that magically cinverts ro var in the body.

M1A at about 60mg a day would produce a similar effect to test E 250mg/wk. probably some faster weight gain too. Won’t have that good mental feeling though. The effect is remarkably comparable, though. First thought on my mind when the batch I’m on kicked in was that it was pretty much just as strong as the test I had just tried before that. The blood pressure effect is increased versus test, too. Kind of like a light dose of dianabol as far as BP.

But that wouldn’t be a base. For something to use as a base you would want androhard, which will give that good mental feeling.

There are also real old school 4AD products available online from the UK but if you remember, that stuff had to be taken every three hours for the least side effects. Otherwise your levels go all fucky.

And there was an oxandrodiol product out for awhile, called anavar-diol. Literally what it was, the diol precursor to anavar.