The Anabolic Diet

[xR1pp3Rx]

there is a formula for water intake.. according to how much carbs you take in, some thing like 4 ounces of water per gram of carbs.

 

[volt]

Matthandyo, how is the diet coming along? I have been following along so I know what to expect. I usually stay between 150 and 200 grams of Carbs but I decided to try this diet for a change up. I started last Friday. I had a sweet taste in my mouth a few hours ago however my keto strip tested negative. I drink about 2 gallons of water per day so that could be the reason for the negative result I guess.

 

[LiftWithDonuts]

Well this weekend I did a carb up on Friday and Saturday with Friday at around 200gs of carbs and Saturday at around 250 and I didn't check my weight until Sunday night and I was at 197 compared to last weeks carb up which was only one day where I was up to 206 after my carb day. Today was awesome, glycogen was still full and I had an awesome arm workout. And my weight is 194-195. I'm guessing after my glycogen is depleted I'll be around 192-193. I'm also bringing in around 2 gallons of water. I've read somewhere that keto sticks only actually read right when your first getting into ketosis, before your using ketones solely for energy. Once they are being burned for energy you won't pee them out anymore. I could be wrong, I don't remember where I read that. It's going good, I'm a fan of burgers, eggs and cheese so this diet is pretty easy haha. Honestly today was the best I've felt in the gym in a long time. Not bloated from carbs, but full yet still feeling lean.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

keto sticks only show ketones that are present in the urine. if you are in ketosis then your body is using those ketones for fuel. just because they don't test positive and you haven't ate carbs in a week then its likely you are burning up the available ketones. try testing first thing in the morning after a good nights rest.
you don't use much energy to sleep so there is a good chance that you will test positive during that window.

 

[volt]

Glad to hear it's going well. I did Atkins many years back for over a year. Lost a bunch of weight but felt like hell most of the time. But I was only eating around 15 grams of Carbs per day. The anobolic diet seems like it will work out better because of the carb up's.
Thanks for the info xR1pp3Rx. I was down 1/2" in the waist this morning. I will try out a keto strip in the morning just out of curiosity.

 

[LiftWithDonuts]

Wasn't Atkins high protein moderate fat very low carb?

 

[volt]

Yeah but in most cases I actually tried "no carb" and very low fat so I just felt run down and weak. I did it wrong, thinking that I would maximize the results. Test strips still showed a negative this morning but I was down another lb. the anabolic diet book says not to lose more than one and a half pounds per week. However, shouldn't I expect a faster weight loss then that for the first week or tw? I am also currently running the LG science cut kit. I don't want to burn up my muscle ya know.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

lets clear this up.. (again)... you are only concerned with the total loss at the end of each week
if you are in the 1-2 lb good.. any more and your prolly burning muscle.

there is a lot of mechanics going on while on this diet and wild weight fluctuations are normal but confusing. just watch the end of the week weight and don't even worry about it at all any other time!!

also do you get up at night to pee? if so you may have pissed out any ketones before your morning test..

another thing.. some people take a while to transition into ketosis. how long you been no carbing it?
remember that lowering carbs to trace and or lowering calories even further just to try and see purple on a keto stick will not help you achieve your goals any faster.

 

[volt]

lets clear this up.. (again)... you are only concerned with the total loss at the end of each week
if you are in the 1-2 lb good.. any more and your prolly burning muscle.

there is a lot of mechanics going on while on this diet and wild weight fluctuations are normal but confusing. just watch the end of the week weight and don't even worry about it at all any other time!!

also do you get up at night to pee? if so you may have pissed out any ketones before your morning test..

another thing.. some people take a while to transition into ketosis. how long you been no carbing it?
remember that lowering carbs to trace and or lowering calories even further just to try and see purple on a keto stick will not help you achieve your goals any faster.

I have been eating between 150 and 200 Carbs a day for quite awhile. A year maybe. Sometimes lower if I began to feel bloated /heavy. Just last Friday I dropped my Carbs to 30 per day. So it's only been 4 days on the anobolic diet. The book is unclear to me but it sounds like you don't do a carb-up until you have been in ketosis for one week. I have already experienced some of the symptoms but I am not sure if I am actually in ketosis or if it's just sides from dropping my carbs. I don't want to carb-up too soon but my resistance training is already suffering. I lowered my Carbs but I have kept my calories the same. I felt weak as hell yesterday in the gym. I pushed through but it took everything I had.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

sounds like your transistioning into keto. the thing about keto diets is you don't really want to work out while on them as its very catabolic. the days you would want to key in on are the first couple days after you carb up. that's when you work on depleting the glycogen stores and can push your self. the other days of the week shouldn't be much more than calves and abs.

 

[volt]

sounds like your transistioning into keto. the thing about keto diets is you don't really want to work out while on them as its very catabolic. the days you would want to key in on are the first couple days after you carb up. that's when you work on depleting the glycogen stores and can push your self. the other days of the week shouldn't be much more than calves and abs.

Ok. Sounds good. I downloaded the book online. It doesn't specify that. Makes sense though. In your experience should I carb up this weekend or wait until I know for a fact that I am in full ketosis? Which it sounds like knowing is a shot in the dark without a blood test. Thanks for the info by the way. The book seems really vague.

 

[LiftWithDonuts]

sounds like your transistioning into keto. the thing about keto diets is you don't really want to work out while on them as its very catabolic. the days you would want to key in on are the first couple days after you carb up. that's when you work on depleting the glycogen stores and can push your self. the other days of the week shouldn't be much more than calves and abs.

I work out mon-Friday and my carb up days are on sat-sun. Would it make more sense to have my carb up days on like Wednesday and Sunday? Since the most focus on workouts should be on days after carbing up?

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

that would be more like a TKD.. time keto diet. which would be fine, the thing I recommend most is to read each book and descimenate what works best for your individual body...
even dan duchaine knew this would be the best approach.. he speculated that you might be able to reach out to 10 days in ketosis and not lose too much mass that it couldn't be regained during a super comp.
the only problem I have with a TKD is they seem like to much work. I get the best results using duchaines method with some personal tweaks.

I like some supplements. for instance.. oils. I like ALOT of fish oils and CLA.. I also like to use GDAs and a few other goodies. you have to use them as macros tho so pay attention.

 

[LiftWithDonuts]

that would be more like a TKD.. time keto diet. which would be fine, the thing I recommend most is to read each book and descimenate what works best for your individual body...
even dan duchaine knew this would be the best approach.. he speculated that you might be able to reach out to 10 days in ketosis and not lose too much mass that it couldn't be regained during a super comp.
the only problem I have with a TKD is they seem like to much work. I get the best results using duchaines method with some personal tweaks.

I like some supplements. for instance.. oils. I like ALOT of fish oils and CLA.. I also like to use GDAs and a few other goodies. you have to use them as macros tho so pay attention.

Okay, I'll be sure to give his stuff a look when I get a chance. Thank you for that info man. Also, i have some recompadrol and in taking fish oils. So far I'm really liking this diet. It's easy and I work just fine in keto. How would I count the gda as a macro? And if I were to keep my refeeds on sat/sun or Sunday/Monday would that mean that my Friday workout should be light? That's shoulder day.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

you will count the oils as macros. I havnt read the anabolic diet in like 20+ yrs so I cant comment on how the good dr would have you train.

 

[EMPIREMIND]

you will count the oils as macros. I havnt read the anabolic diet in like 20+ yrs so I cant comment on how the good dr would have you train.

I know from speaking to og bodybuilders who ran the diet when it first dropped that they would do thier heaviest days and work on thier weak points they wanted to bring up on the last carb up day and the day after. So probably sunday and monday when the carbs are really taking effect. I personally would increase the volume and drop the weight on the last no carb day. I found my pumps were the worst and i looked the worst lol. I would just try to deplete myself as much as possible before the carb up.

 

[EMPIREMIND]

I think some great supps i have found that work on this diet well are ara, phosphatic acid via sl granuales. Fat based supps, but def need to be calculated into macros. Also things like intra carbs, post carbs and maybe even gdas on some of the carb meals. The gda might not be conpletely nessesary, but if trying to cut it may help. Then the staples like creatine protein etc. Also i really think a good pump blend with citrulline and agmatine can help with the pumps and keeping you mentally focused, because the lack of pump for a bodybuilder can be soul crushing lmao

 

[LiftWithDonuts]

Yeah I've been trying to bring out my delts/traps more so I might switch my schedule around so that one of the carb days fall on that day. Also, I'm taking pre jym +1g agmatine so the pump is awesome hah. I'm also taking bb.com ultra fish oil and I just got recompadrol in the mail

 

[LiftWithDonuts]

Update: I'm down to 194 this morning. That's ten pounds since May 4th(I dropped the carbs starting then and dropped some water weight and started this thread on the 6th) I have yet to feel weaker in the gym even with less then 20gs of carbs and I feel really good. I'm guessing it's because I'm not bloated from the carbs. Thanks everybody for helping me out with this.

 

[DirtyWilly]

Thanks to those who recommended BodyOpus! I can't stop reading it, clarifies (and validates) so much.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

yes... duchaine was a brilliant mind.

believe it or not.. a lot of the supplementation he recommended is still very applicable today~

 

[bmallen01]

Do you think the 15% BF is where you need to be to start opus, or would you just recommend starting where you are?

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

well dan postulated the reason behind this was due to keto acidosis, which in effect you are trying to avoid by cycling your ketosis. that said there are plenty of people who use these diets year round.

the only other thing I might throw out there is the fact that if you diet down to 15 % prior to starting the body opus, at least it wont be that big of a shock to your system as you will likely be used to eating smaller meals and in decent shape.

 

[DirtyWilly]

I don't see why you can't be higher than 15% to start, Dan really didn't list a reason as to why not other than he wanted dedicated people. However, the argument could be that being higher than 15% might not be optimal for fat-loss. Dan states that for every 3 pounds of fat you lose, you lose 1 pound of muscle. That might be true for 15%, but someone with more to lose, that's probably not true.

For example, say there's a 400 pound guy with 150 pounds of lean mass. If he loses 200 pounds dieting, does that mean he will also lose 66 pounds of muscle? He would be 90 pounds of lean mass at 200 pounds... Doesn't seem to add up. Anyone over 15% might be better off sticking to low-cal/keto until you get closer to 15%. Since most restrictive diets tend to protect muscle as best as possible in heavy/obese people while losing weight, it really comes down to what's more optimal.

My own two cents on this, but I would say maybe consider BodyOpus, but on a two week cycle instead of one until you get closer to 15%. Maybe adjusting a value like time (a re-feeding once a month instead of once a week) would work better until 15%? Either way I don't see a reason you couldn't start it over 15%.

 

[bmallen01]

Thanks for the responses, I was thinking along the same lines dirty. I'm at 20% now, and was starting my new diet this coming week, and had not looked at the opus until today.

 

[elhosk]

Enjoyed reading the discussions on this diet. As a carb fan i could never work out the practicality of getting so many calories from fat and protein.

 

[LiftWithDonuts]

Enjoyed reading the discussions on this diet. As a carb fan i could never work out the practicality of getting so many calories from fat and protein.

High fat burgers, cheese and eggs man. Plus the greens and you're good to go

 

[hvactech]

High fat burgers, cheese and eggs man. Plus the greens and you're good to go

1/2lb Sirloin burgers, full fat cheese with fried egg on top... oh, and spinach!


Freakn delicious

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

lulz// don't forget pork rinds with spray cheese FTW!!! ~~
thank me now.. or later :dance:

 

[DirtyWilly]

This shouldn't be too far off-topic, but how many carbs/proteins/fats are you supposed to eat on BodyOpus during the carb-up phase? I'll use easy numbers...

200lbs with 150lbs of lean mass or 68kg.
16g x 68kg = ~1100g.
1100g of carbs x 4 = 4400 calories.

Would a 200lbs person with 150lbs of lean mass have to eat 4400 calories of carbs in 24 hours? Dan mentions 15% of maintenance in healthy fats, so that's 450 calories in fat (50g) of a 3000 calorie diet. But I didn't see mention of how many proteins you're supposed to eat. We're already at 4850 calories and haven't included protein yet, that just seems high...

He mentions 25% of protein from other diets, so from a 3000 calorie diet that would be 750 calories in protein (187g).

We're looking at 5600 calories per day Saturday/Sunday. Is this right??

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

for a guy who is over 15 % I would cut that number back to near diet level.. remember this is a competition style diet. since you are not sub 10% bodyfat these numbers are way too high. you can do really well on a lot less.

pay close attention to pages 305-310

 

[DirtyWilly]

Thanks again xR1pp3Rx! I happened to run across a great article by Lyle McDonald that seems like an update to the Anabolic/BodyOpus diets. Answered everything.

This article is a gold mine to anyone on these diets!
http://www.simplyshredded.com/research-review-an-in-depth-look-into-carbing-up-on-the-cyclical-ketogenic-diet-with-lyle-mcdonald.html

 

[LiftWithDonuts]

had to like the post after seeing dancing-suit-smiley guy haha

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

yes lyles' book the ud2.0 is a collaboration of work between he and dan. its more for the masses. by all means use which ever version you feel best suits your needs

 

[LiftWithDonuts]

After being on this diet for a month I think I might keep at it for another couple of months if I keep seeing progress. Fat loss in noticeable as well as muscle growth. Really glad I started this diet.

 

[Dark Knight]

View attachment 119085
View attachment 119086
View attachment 119087

I'm a beginner. Haven't started anything yet due to tending to my wife since she is about to give birth any day now.

I am just wondering, of these three what order should I start them. I am 6'3", 284 lbs, and approximately 34% body fat (my guess). I want to lose fat and lean out. Goal weight is 235 lbs.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

honestly bro.. the easiest thing to do rather than start out with one of these diets is to slowly cut out your carbs over a two week period. then just try and stay on point with the no/low carb thing for a few weeks.. see if you can hang. by this time, you will see about 10-20 lbs lost and you can access whether or not this style of diet is for you. if it is, great, I recommend the UD2.0 for guys like yourself just wanting to get into shape.

 

[DirtyWilly]

I've done Anabolic Diet in the past with limited success. It tends to be a little easier than the others to follow since it doesn't really have set times or amounts to follow. I'd call Anabolic Diet modified Atkins, or cyclical keto. The problem I ran into was not knowing how much to eat on carb loading days. While it worked in the beginning, after awhile I found I was just spinning my wheels, couldn't get past a certain weight.

BodyOpus is a GREAT read and Dan writes it in a manner that makes it easy to read. Great for getting the concepts and learning the how's and why's, but it's out-of-date. It's a pretty strict diet when you break it down, I'm not sure I could recommend this to anyone starting out. I highly recommend reading it though, just to learn of things like glycogen depletion, supercompensation, and such is worth it all.

Ultimate Diet 2.0 tends to be a mix of AD and BO but more up-to-date. It's a strict diet as well, but not quite as strict as BO. Honestly, if you learn about BO, you have to read UD2 to update it. I like some parts of UD2, again the information is invaluable, but I think it needs a little updating as well. I would say this diet probably works the best but needs to be updated, modified or mixed with BO. Not sure I could suggest BO or UD2 for starting out.

My personal experience (also having lost lots of weight) is that strict cyclical keto diets aren't very helpful and can be mostly counter productive until you get closer to 20-25% bodyfat. You'll lose the most weight on straight keto without losing much muscle. If you don't lift often, you probably won't lose any muscle and will even gain some in the beginning. As suggested before, I'd probably throw a carb loading day similar to BO or UD2 in once every month. You'll find on straight keto you really start to slow down after a month and a carb load day will not only replenish you mentally, but can really kick off the weight loss again. High protein keto diets are easy to follow and produce OK results (to a point), but high fat keto diets will produce more weight-loss. They're not as easy to follow.

 

[gator67]

I have just begun the anabolic diet. I am 48 yrs old and have been training on and off for 25 years. Unfortunately mostly off for the last ten. I am now about 35 lbs heavier than my previous in shape weight. I have been training hard for the past six months and am very happy with my results other than my mid section. Been following an iso caloric diet, about 3000 calories a day. I know from past that low carb diets work for me, but I tend to drop mass quickly as well. Hoping to avoid this with the AD. I'm going to aim low at first with the carb reloads and see how it goes. I tried ultimate diet 2 and gained weight from the excessive carb loading. My questions are what the best proteins have been for others and what supplements you use post workout on low carb days. My initial meals are whole eggs, salmon, and steak, but gonna need some variety. Also ask going with whey plus added bcaas post workout but was wondering if anyone had other ideas. Thanks

 

[EMPIREMIND]

I have just begun the anabolic diet. I am 48 yrs old and have been training on and off for 25 years. Unfortunately mostly off for the last ten. I am now about 35 lbs heavier than my previous in shape weight. I have been training hard for the past six months and am very happy with my results other than my mid section. Been following an iso caloric diet, about 3000 calories a day. I know from past that low carb diets work for me, but I tend to drop mass quickly as well. Hoping to avoid this with the AD. I'm going to aim low at first with the carb reloads and see how it goes. I tried ultimate diet 2 and gained weight from the excessive carb loading. My questions are what the best proteins have been for others and what supplements you use post workout on low carb days. My initial meals are whole eggs, salmon, and steak, but gonna need some variety. Also ask going with whey plus added bcaas post workout but was wondering if anyone had other ideas. Thanks

Best proteins are steak and eggs. Both are staples in ad. As far as fats definitely recommend olive oil shots, was recommended by dr mauro depasquale. I also love coconut oil especially through the day and pre workout. Avocado, cheeses with low carbs, NATURAL peanut butter(higher fiber, much lower carbs).

The thing about this diet is youll go flat, but will def blow up after the carb ups. The high protein is what maintains your muscle. I would do atleast 1g per lb. Also make sure you keep your fats high especially in the initiation phase. Once you get adjusted you can back it down.

 

[Dark Knight]

I appreciate all your info and advice. Unfortunately I am unable to focus on a strict diet for a while since our son has arrived but my wife did not survive. I must now raise our children alone (daughter age 8 and newborn son). I will do as xR1pp3Rx and begin cutting my carbs. I will return here in 2 months with updates. Again, thank you all.

 

[liftandswim]

Heart goes out to you. Stay strong

 

[Dark Knight]

Thanks lifandswim. Now more than ever I must get in shape.

 

[gator67]

Best proteins are steak and eggs. Both are staples in ad. As far as fats definitely recommend olive oil shots, was recommended by dr mauro depasquale. I also love coconut oil especially through the day and pre workout. Avocado, cheeses with low carbs, NATURAL peanut butter(higher fiber, much lower carbs).



The thing about this diet is youll go flat, but will def blow up after the carb ups. The high protein is what maintains your muscle. I would do atleast 1g per lb. Also make sure you keep your fats high especially in the initiation phase. Once you get adjusted you can back it down

Thanks, I was wondering about coconut oil. I usually scramble my eggs in it but the pdf I read said to stay away from mct's. I'm shooting for 11/2 g/lb protein and staying in the 55-60% fat range.

 

[Johnston]

Thanks, I was wondering about coconut oil. I usually scramble my eggs in it but the pdf I read said to stay away from mct's. I'm shooting for 11/2 g/lb protein and staying in the 55-60% fat range.

Not sure why it would say to stay away from MCT's?? They're great.

I've had good success myself following a high fat protocol, with weekly carb ups... at least in terms of recomping. I've been doing this since mid-Feb and my weight hasn't changed (75kg/165lb), but I've been at maintenance calories and wasn't really expecting it to. I have seen changes in the mirror though, and am leaner than when I started, probably hovering around 10-11% BF now. Furthermore, I had my cholesterol tested the other week (just out of curiosity), and the numbers were spot on, with triglycerides low (as expected).

I'm not sure how best to approach a lean bulk though, as and when I want to do that. I would like to start putting on more size at some point. Some people seem to recommend more than one high carb day, or should I simply add more protein/fat on my low carb days, increasing cals beyond maintenance? Or there's cycling cals also. I'm wary how best to approach it, as whenever I've bulked in the past I invariably just end up feeling bloated, putting on bodyfat and it depresses me.

 

[gator67]

The reasoning Dr Depasquale gave was that the mct's bypass the process the A/D creates and therefore slow the results. I'm still going to use 1tbsp a day for the overall health benefits. If you Google the A/D pdf, the guidelines are given for bulking and cutting. There are formulas for both. If you stick to the A/D the calories are extremely high, but it's a fun way to eat, at least for me. I'm going to eat at maintenance for the first month, then begin to cut. I would like to drop 5% bf by fall which is when I have a recomp cycle scheduled.

 

[gator67]

Dark Knight, very sorry to hear of your loss. Perhaps a more standard iso caloric diet would be more suitable for awhile as you have allot on your plate. Easier to follow and easier on the psyche. Prayers going out to you and your family.

 

[Dark Knight]

Dark Knight, very sorry to hear of your loss. Perhaps a more standard iso caloric diet would be more suitable for awhile as you have allot on your plate. Easier to follow and easier on the psyche. Prayers going out to you and your family.

Thanks gator. Greatly appreciated. What is a standard ISO caloric diet. I'm still very very new to the lingo used here.

 

[liftandswim]

Thanks gator. Greatly appreciated. What is a standard ISO caloric diet. I'm still very very new to the lingo used here.

He means maintenance level calories (i.e. not gaining or losing weight).

 

[gator67]

Isocaloric means getting an equal% of calories from the three macronutrients. Basically the zone diet. I'd probably recommend 40% protein,30% carbs, and 30% fats. There are different schools of thought on the carbs. Spread them out evenly, eat the majority in the morning and around workouts, or mostly in the evening and around workouts. It's very individual. Thus is probably an easy"diet" to start with and then make the transition to a low or very low carb plan.