Test levels dropping every cycle.

[mxrider28]

Hey guys, little concerned. I knew the risks when I started cycling but want your opinion here. At what point do you get on TRT.
I have had blood work done before, during, and after each cycle. Bloods were always done 2-3 months after PCT
Before any cycle test levels were 720
Took pro hormones 8 weeks test after was 620
Test cycle 12 weeks test after was 505
Test cycle with oral. test after was 443 FSH 2.1
Ive done everything properly and ran nolvadex and clomid for 6 weeks after each cycle
I dont notice any low test symptoms. But at what point should I say **** it and hop on TRT. Im 26. Should I be worried with these levels?

 

[dezzy84]

I was 470ish when I went on TRT...but I'm also 10 years older then you and not worried about fertility.

I'd hold out if you feel fine when your test is in the 400's. Especially if you want kids in the near future.

 

[mxrider28]

Yeah definitely want kids. Thats my main reason for not committing.

 

[trumac]

Mine were in the 300s before I started. Also started a little older at 34. If you feel good I wouldn’t start TRT so young. Maybe a clomid jump start to try to get your natural production back up especially if you want kids. Maybe someone else can chime in about that protocol.

 

[Mathb33]

Well first as you age your levels will keep on getting lower and of course doing gear only increases that. You’re still young though but 500 isn’t THAT bad at all idk exactly the stats but I think it’s the average for 30 years olds... it’s not bad actually. If you’re concerned about it getting worse which it will, stop doing gear.

 

[trumac]

Well first as you age your levels will keep on getting lower and of course doing gear only increases that. You’re still young though but 500 isn’t THAT bad at all idk exactly the stats but I think it’s the average for 30 years olds... it’s not bad actually. If you’re concerned about it getting worse which it will, stop doing gear.

But...but..THE GAINZZZZ

 

[Mathb33]

But...but..THE GAINZZZZ

If you want the GAINNZZZ then you blast and cruise and you become a real idiot like me on trt

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Just because you run clomid for 6 weeks post each cycle doesnt mean you are recovering properly.

How long between each of these cycles?

As an example, you could have done 6 week of clomid right after you finished your test cycle and esters would have only have just cleared your system. Your balls probably havent regained full Steroidogenesis function and then you dive into another cycle.

 

[Renew1]

Just because you run clomid for 6 weeks post each cycle doesnt mean you are recovering properly.

How long between each of these cycles?

As an example, you could have done 6 week of clomid right after you finished your test cycle and esters would have only have just cleared your system. Your balls probably havent regained full Steroidogenesis function and then you dive into another cycle.

^^^ Yep. ^^^

Suggeted time-off guidelines are MINUMUM suggested time-off periods .... IF Your Body Has Recovered.

 

[Whisky]

Just because you run clomid for 6 weeks post each cycle doesnt mean you are recovering properly.

How long between each of these cycles?

As an example, you could have done 6 week of clomid right after you finished your test cycle and esters would have only have just cleared your system. Your balls probably havent regained full Steroidogenesis function and then you dive into another cycle.

yep yep yep, as I was reading down this is what I was thinking.

2-3 months after pct isn’t long enough to know your true natural numbers.

obviously it’s individual but imo it’s 6-12 months off everything before you start to see where your natural levels are really at. I know of people who took 18 months (granted they were on for 3 years consistently) to get their test back up.

you need to take a longer time off and check. I personally would stop any cycling until my family was complete (I didn’t start gear until after I’d had the snip). Just not worth the risk and you won’t enjoy the process as much if your worried about stuff like that.

 

[trumac]

If you want the GAINNZZZ then you blast and cruise and you become a real idiot like me on trt

Sames

 

[Jinsun]

Wow, I definetly wouldn't cycle if my levels kept plummeting like that. Switch to peptides bro or maybe insulin? If you continue this, you are getting on trt very soon.

I presume you aren't running HCG with these cycles?

 

[Jinsun]

Also, am I reading this correctly; you did a methyl test only cycle??

 

[NoAddedHmones]

yep yep yep, as I was reading down this is what I was thinking.

2-3 months after pct isn’t long enough to know your true natural numbers.

obviously it’s individual but imo it’s 6-12 months off everything before you start to see where your natural levels are really at. I know of people who took 18 months (granted they were on for 3 years consistently) to get their test back up.

you need to take a longer time off and check. I personally would stop any cycling until my family was complete (I didn’t start gear until after I’d had the snip). Just not worth the risk and you won’t enjoy the process as much if your worried about stuff like that.

Frankly, in an overwhelming amount of situations a person can regain full HPTA function, depending on abuse/duration/esters/compounds it just requires different strategies and recovery agents.

 

[mxrider28]

Just because you run clomid for 6 weeks post each cycle doesnt mean you are recovering properly.

How long between each of these cycles?

As an example, you could have done 6 week of clomid right after you finished your test cycle and esters would have only have just cleared your system. Your balls probably havent regained full Steroidogenesis function and then you dive into another cycle.

This was all done over a 3 year period. Finish test cycle wait 18 days to start PCT. Took about a year off between each cycle.

 

[mxrider28]

Also, am I reading this correctly; you did a methyl test only cycle??

i did not
prohormones then 2 test cycles

 

[CroLifter]

Wow, I definetly wouldn't cycle if my levels kept plummeting like that. Switch to peptides bro or maybe insulin?

Sorry man hahaha had to do it. I would be scared to take insulin tbh. I get hypo episodes as it is.

 

[Jinsun]

Sorry man hahaha had to do it. I would be scared to take insulin tbh. I get hypo episodes as it is.

Well ... if you know what you are doing ... insulin and GH can substitute aas to a degree, but I can't speak from experience. Had lot's of contact with diabetics for some projects I did and it doesn't look that scary tbh. They do it all their life. But you know, just peptides, albeit more expensive, can do a lot. If my test levels kept doing what OP is experiencing, I wouldn't cycle once I saw my TT go down after the first cycle! Yet alone 3 or 4 ...

 

[bad rad]

What are your LH levels and did you take hCG on cycle or during PCT?

One trend I've seen on the last 20 years is over complicating cycles and putting little thought/effort into PCT. Balancing hormones is a complex puzzle.

 

[user567]

You dont want to be on TRT at 26 years old!

 

[mxrider28]

What are your LH levels and did you take hCG on cycle or during PCT?

One trend I've seen on the last 20 years is over complicating cycles and putting little thought/effort into PCT. Balancing hormones is a complex puzzle.

Never used HCG. Seemed like the negatives outweighed the positives.

 

[mxrider28]

Well ... if you know what you are doing ... insulin and GH can substitute aas to a degree, but I can't speak from experience. Had lot's of contact with diabetics for some projects I did and it doesn't look that scary tbh. They do it all their life. But you know, just peptides, albeit more expensive, can do a lot. If my test levels kept doing what OP is experiencing, I wouldn't cycle once I saw my TT go down after the first cycle! Yet alone 3 or 4 ...

So your saying you levels always return back to normal a few monthes after PCT?

 

[bad rad]

Never used HCG. Seemed like the negatives outweighed the positives.

This could be the issue. If the testes remain dormant for prolonged periods they don't respond properly to LH/FSH. The attached slide shows that both of these hormones return to sufficient levels quickly but the testes remain unresponsive to the signaling. hCG hits them harder to wake them up after cycle and establish HPTA function. The graph was after 20 weeks of 250mg Testosterone only.

Most people take too much hCG and this causes a lot of excessive intratesticular E2 from localized aromatase. 500iu E3D works very well.

 

[UNX]

Never used HCG. Seemed like the negatives outweighed the positives.

I would say the opposite. 250 IU E4D on cycle will only benefit you.

 

[CroLifter]

I would say the opposite. 250 IU E4D on cycle will only benefit you.

Would always recommend running hcg throughout the cycle rather than blasting high doses at the end. 250 - 400iu 2x per week works well. Then after you stop iniecting run the hcg some more until the esters clear and then stop hcg, wait few days and bam! Start your clomid. I have been on test for 8 months and except fits of rage due to clomid i had no issues coming off.

 

[Jinsun]

So your saying you levels always return back to normal a few monthes after PCT?

Till now, yes. It's actually a tad higher then before I started cycling.

 

[Jinsun]

HCG is 250IU e36h. This is the dose that was used in the study, that saw the same intratesticular testosterone as non shutdown subjects. Or to be exact, 250IU put subjects 7% below baseline, and 500IU put subjects 26% over baseline.

I wish everybody would just remember this and stop shouting random HCG protocols : D C'mon, 20 bro's were put on 200mg's test in order to get shutdown and then had their balls poked with needles in order for us to have this info!

In the study they did e2d not e36h, but if you want more stable blood levels of hcg then do it on it's half life, ie. 36h.

https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/90/5/2595/2836735

 

[CroLifter]

Would always recommend running hcg throughout the cycle rather than blasting high doses at the end. 250 - 400iu 2x per week works well. Then after you stop iniecting run the hcg some more until the esters clear and then stop hcg, wait few days and bam! Start your clomid. I have been on test for 8 months and except fits of rage due to clomid i had no issues coming off.

One more thing i did when i estimated that clomid was clearing my body (dont remember how many days post last tab it was, i think it was like 8-10 days post last 25mg eod dose) i went a little harder on aromasin, i took 12.5 mg ed for 4-5 days. That way I made sure, as serm was clearing my body, i had no residual high estrogen levels left which could suppress the hpta.

 

[mjdel05]

I would also recommend you take another look at hcg. And if you do continue to cycle probably add it into your weekly protocol. Just keep doses low like recommended and it will absolutely help. If anything I’m surprised your wary of hcg and not clomid

 

[mxrider28]

Yeah Ive read alot about the negative sides from clomid but have never had any. And my sex drive is always the same rather on cycle, PCT, or off completely.

 

[jtbull]

To the op. Were all those levels off cycle and not the higher levels you should have on cycle?

 

[mxrider28]

To the op. Were all those levels off cycle and not the higher levels you should have on cycle?

Yes these were taken 3 monthes after pct. On cycle levels with 500mg test were at 2350

 

[jtbull]

Yes these were taken 3 monthes after pct. On cycle levels with 500mg test were at 2350

That is tough man. Seems like you respond decent to test. Are those typical dosages on cycles? I mean pros have kids and their cycles usually have total mg of 2500 considered lightweight Some use just that much in test. THe main thing you might want to see is how your sperm counts are. I wish i could tell you the compounds to avoid i forget exact ones but I understand a couple not using if you might want kids. Just test is probably one way to go. Remember Arnold had kids and i know he used test, deca and dboll and at sizable doses for the time.

 

[mxrider28]

That is tough man. Seems like you respond decent to test. Are those typical dosages on cycles? I mean pros have kids and their cycles usually have total mg of 2500 considered lightweight Some use just that much in test. THe main thing you might want to see is how your sperm counts are. I wish i could tell you the compounds to avoid i forget exact ones but I understand a couple not using if you might want kids. Just test is probably one way to go. Remember Arnold had kids and i know he used test, deca and dboll and at sizable doses for the time.

Yeah exactly. I know a bunch of guys that have obviously used and still had kids. Just don’t want low test levels in between cycles

 

[Jinsun]

Yeah exactly. I know a bunch of guys that have obviously used and still had kids. Just don’t want low test levels in between cycles

My friend cycled and now has a kid. It's really not uncommon for people that cycle or are on trt to have kids. HCG is of importance here as FSH levels are (i think) what matters for this.

 

[Whisky]

My friend cycled and now has a kid. It's really not uncommon for people that cycle or are on trt to have kids. HCG is of importance here as FSH levels are (i think) what matters for this.

thor’s missus has just had a kid hasn’t she?