SHIFT PEScience

[HIT4ME]

lol I know everybody always wants more, but since it's not prop blended, it's pretty easy to see everything is dosed nicely. I'm sure people are going to combine this with stims and the last thing I want is people double dosing and stacking it with stims on top of that

I fully understand that doubling the dose is not always good - and often can increase side effects with no gain in positive effect, or maybe even a loss of positive effect.

However, I would use 3-4X the dose of forskolin if I was taking it separately, it has much more noticeable effects there. I would say the same could be said of Olive Leaf extract - but I don't know the specific extract so I understand that.

The only other products I'm using right now are EGCG and Mind and Muscle T2 - and I plan on stopping the EGCG before I begin this, and will most likely finish my bottle of T2 before I start this, and then use this product solo. Maybe on the second bottle I will add the T2 back in - but I think cycling between the two could have good effect, especially since the T2 may cause thyroid hormone decreases, and I would think the olive leaf extract would be a good PCT of sorts for T2.

 

[De__eB]

I fully understand that doubling the dose is not always good - and often can increase side effects with no gain in positive effect, or maybe even a loss of positive effect.

However, I would use 3-4X the dose of forskolin if I was taking it separately, it has much more noticeable effects there. I would say the same could be said of Olive Leaf extract - but I don't know the specific extract so I understand that.

The only other products I'm using right now are EGCG and Mind and Muscle T2 - and I plan on stopping the EGCG before I begin this, and will most likely finish my bottle of T2 before I start this, and then use this product solo. Maybe on the second bottle I will add the T2 back in - but I think cycling between the two could have good effect, especially since the T2 may cause thyroid hormone decreases, and I would think the olive leaf extract would be a good PCT of sorts for T2.

I wouldn't go for a higher dose of olive leaf than what was included personally, especially not knowing the extract data.

And I assume they kept the forskolin dose modest since some people don't tolerate it well at higher doses?

Standalone forslean is cheap regardless, that's really the only ingredient in the product I'd dose higher

 

[whyteboi]

pretty sure green tea negatively effects testosterone a bit

Layne Norton has a youtube video in which his conclusion is that as long as testosterone is within the normal range, there is almost zero difference in anything (strength, fat loss, etc). Going off of my memory, he actually did quote a study to back up his claim.

 

[Auslifter]

Layne Norton has a youtube video in which his conclusion is that as long as testosterone is within the normal range, there is almost zero difference in anything (strength, fat loss, etc). Going off of my memory, he actually did quote a study to back up his claim.

I have seen that, and it's true many different hormones effect building muscle, test is just one part of the puzzle. but still sense of well being and libido might be important to people some people more than muscle building purposes. but Im sure it's not going to make or break you

 

[kbayne]

I fully understand that doubling the dose is not always good - and often can increase side effects with no gain in positive effect, or maybe even a loss of positive effect.

However, I would use 3-4X the dose of forskolin if I was taking it separately, it has much more noticeable effects there. I would say the same could be said of Olive Leaf extract - but I don't know the specific extract so I understand that.

The only other products I'm using right now are EGCG and Mind and Muscle T2 - and I plan on stopping the EGCG before I begin this, and will most likely finish my bottle of T2 before I start this, and then use this product solo. Maybe on the second bottle I will add the T2 back in - but I think cycling between the two could have good effect, especially since the T2 may cause thyroid hormone decreases, and I would think the olive leaf extract would be a good PCT of sorts for T2.

The Forskolin dose in Shift is the dose used in studies showing its effectiveness. As for the other doses of each ingredient, they are also dosed at the amount showing effectiveness. Yes, some ingredients are better at higher doses, but when you have multiple ingredients put together in a product, the synergistic effect among the ingredients makes it so you don't need such a high dose.

 

[Synapsin]

I fully understand that doubling the dose is not always good - and often can increase side effects with no gain in positive effect, or maybe even a loss of positive effect.

However, I would use 3-4X the dose of forskolin if I was taking it separately, it has much more noticeable effects there. I would say the same could be said of Olive Leaf extract - but I don't know the specific extract so I understand that.

The only other products I'm using right now are EGCG and Mind and Muscle T2 - and I plan on stopping the EGCG before I begin this, and will most likely finish my bottle of T2 before I start this, and then use this product solo. Maybe on the second bottle I will add the T2 back in - but I think cycling between the two could have good effect, especially since the T2 may cause thyroid hormone decreases, and I would think the olive leaf extract would be a good PCT of sorts for T2.

I wouldn't go for a higher dose of olive leaf than what was included personally, especially not knowing the extract data.

And I assume they kept the forskolin dose modest since some people don't tolerate it well at higher doses?

Standalone forslean is cheap regardless, that's really the only ingredient in the product I'd dose higher

The Forskolin dose in Shift is the dose used in studies showing its effectiveness. As for the other doses of each ingredient, they are also dosed at the amount showing effectiveness. Yes, some ingredients are better at higher doses, but when you have multiple ingredients put together in a product, the synergistic effect among the ingredients makes it so you don't need such a high dose.

It's basically like deeb and kbayne said. The forskolin dose is a studied dose showing it to be effective, plus some people do not tolerate forskolin well enough to do 100 mg a day. If people want more forskolin, we offer a stand alone product for their convenience to add to Shift if they want. Regarding the olive leaf, it's at a good dose. We have it extracted for two ingredients, but we don't list them in order because there is always some variability.

 

[HIT4ME]

I'm not arguing with Synapsin, De_eb or kbayne here, just discussing. I understand "studied" dose - but forskolin is the perfect example of this. Few on here will argue that 100-200 mg is more effective than 50 mg, yet 50 mg is the studied dose and no one would know if it worked better without trying more.

Having said that, I don't know all of the other ingredients all that well, which is why I was asking about sides - because as De_eb said, forslean is the only ingredient he would dose higher. So that may be the case, I was asking for that type of input.

And I understand that some people may not tolerate Forslean above 50 mg/day - I do, others don't - so the product needs to be designed to accommodate that factor. In doing so, the forslean may be lower and the synephrine high enough to cause issues if you double it - so you are better off adding the forslean separately.

Given that some of these ingredients are newer, or "novel" and the extracts are "novel", I was interested in sides if I dosed higher.

I also know the reps are not going to "recommend" dosing higher, so I'm asking for the negatives of dosing higher. Even if it's just for educational purposes....I mean, I know why you wouldn't dose DNP higher....and I'd be very conservative with that if I ever used it and wouldn't go doubling the dose.

But De_eb basically said his opinion, Forslean is the only ingredient that could be higher. I'm wondering if others in this compound could be of benefit in higher doses, and if anything in this compound could be dangerous in higher doses. It sounds like the answer is "No" on the first question of whether there is any additional benefit. Which is cool.

 

[De__eB]

I'm not arguing with Synapsin, De_eb or kbayne here, just discussing. I understand "studied" dose - but forskolin is the perfect example of this. Few on here will argue that 100-200 mg is more effective than 50 mg, yet 50 mg is the studied dose and no one would know if it worked better without trying more.

Having said that, I don't know all of the other ingredients all that well, which is why I was asking about sides - because as De_eb said, forslean is the only ingredient he would dose higher. So that may be the case, I was asking for that type of input.

And I understand that some people may not tolerate Forslean above 50 mg/day - I do, others don't - so the product needs to be designed to accommodate that factor. In doing so, the forslean may be lower and the synephrine high enough to cause issues if you double it - so you are better off adding the forslean separately.

Given that some of these ingredients are newer, or "novel" and the extracts are "novel", I was interested in sides if I dosed higher.

I also know the reps are not going to "recommend" dosing higher, so I'm asking for the negatives of dosing higher. Even if it's just for educational purposes....I mean, I know why you wouldn't dose DNP higher....and I'd be very conservative with that if I ever used it and wouldn't go doubling the dose.

But De_eb basically said his opinion, Forslean is the only ingredient that could be higher. I'm wondering if others in this compound could be of benefit in higher doses, and if anything in this compound could be dangerous in higher doses. It sounds like the answer is "No" on the first question of whether there is any additional benefit. Which is cool.

Well here's the way I see it.

If you double dose it, you're doubling your cost per day to use it.

Buying extra forslean to take another 50mg with it, is cheaper than doubling your use of shift.

So that's the route I'd go (I ordered a couple of bottles and will probably use it in a month or two)

I wouldn't necessarily see there being any significant risk in double dosing it, I just don't think that it'd be worthwhile to double the cost.

 

[Synapsin]

Well here's the way I see it.

If you double dose it, you're doubling your cost per day to use it.

Buying extra forslean to take another 50mg with it, is cheaper than doubling your use of shift.

So that's the route I'd go (I ordered a couple of bottles and will probably use it in a month or two)

I wouldn't necessarily see there being any significant risk in double dosing it, I just don't think that it'd be worthwhile to double the cost.

The dose of synephrine would be quite high if double dosing because I usually assume people will be using it in combination with stims (even if they swear they won't be, lol). Other than that, no issues with double dosing HIT4ME although IMO (and I am one of the people who came up with the profile) it would be a waste of your money to do so since everything is dosed at effective doses. If you want more, I would use it as directed in combination with norcodrene or alphamine.

 

[kdubson14]

^2x Norco + 2x Shift pre fasted cardio crew checking in

 

[HIT4ME]

Well here's the way I see it.

If you double dose it, you're doubling your cost per day to use it.

Buying extra forslean to take another 50mg with it, is cheaper than doubling your use of shift.

So that's the route I'd go (I ordered a couple of bottles and will probably use it in a month or two)

I wouldn't necessarily see there being any significant risk in double dosing it, I just don't think that it'd be worthwhile to double the cost.

The dose of synephrine would be quite high if double dosing because I usually assume people will be using it in combination with stims (even if they swear they won't be, lol). Other than that, no issues with double dosing HIT4ME although IMO (and I am one of the people who came up with the profile) it would be a waste of your money to do so since everything is dosed at effective doses. If you want more, I would use it as directed in combination with norcodrene or alphamine.

Awesome. Doubling doses doesn't always yield better results...and wasting money on no result is no fun.

The stim issue is heard loud and clear...I actually don't like stims all that much, even though I tolerate them pretty well. I can take 600-800 mg. of caffeine at a time and it feels great. Other stims (particularly yohimbe if that counts) leave me feeling weird.

I'm gonna try this stand alone for a while, then with T2, and then with some Norcodrene probably. The fact the bottle will last a month is cool....it will feel funny taking a dose in the morning and not in the afternoon....but I guess that will speak to its effectiveness.

Part of my questioning is skepticism - I've used a lot of stuff with minimal results (or no results) - so doubling the dose is often necessary and often still ineffective. If this works at 2 pills/day in one morning dose and I can tell a difference....I will be impressed and I will let everyone know it.

 

[mechka_grizli]

^2x Norco + 2x Shift pre fasted cardio crew checking in

How did it treat you

 

[kdubson14]

How did it treat you

My order of Shift gets here Monday. Will work up to 2+2 and report back

 

[mechka_grizli]

My order of Shift gets here Monday. Will work up to 2+2 and report back

Oh alright

 

[kbayne]

Awesome. Doubling doses doesn't always yield better results...and wasting money on no result is no fun.

The stim issue is heard loud and clear...I actually don't like stims all that much, even though I tolerate them pretty well. I can take 600-800 mg. of caffeine at a time and it feels great. Other stims (particularly yohimbe if that counts) leave me feeling weird.

I'm gonna try this stand alone for a while, then with T2, and then with some Norcodrene probably. The fact the bottle will last a month is cool....it will feel funny taking a dose in the morning and not in the afternoon....but I guess that will speak to its effectiveness.

Part of my questioning is skepticism - I've used a lot of stuff with minimal results (or no results) - so doubling the dose is often necessary and often still ineffective. If this works at 2 pills/day in one morning dose and I can tell a difference....I will be impressed and I will let everyone know it.

Glad things got squared away it seems.

Let us know what you notice/how Shift treats you solo. I know I can't personally wait to use it solo and will be soon as I'm about to begin a mini diet (2-4 weeks)

 

[booneman77]

Here it is in all its glory

 

[Whacked]

You want a 3rd thing to stack?

Maybe TTA

Not to detail but why has TTA fallen out of favor/popularity? Great stuff.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Here it is in all its glory View attachment 118432

You tried a serving yet?

 

[bolt10]

Not to detail but why has TTA fallen out of favor/popularity? Great stuff.

I wouldn't say it has, I see it recommended a ton still. The issue is supply of the ingredient is readily available for many. SNS is the only brand that still seems to put it out and they don't actively continue to make new batches (idk though because it does occasionally pop back up).

 

[bolt10]

Sick stacking boone. I want to see the caps though!

 

[avega17]

You tried a serving yet?

I just popped 2 caps 20 minutes ago with an espresso. Don't feel much stimulation at all. (Not in a bad way just saying my first dose was 2 caps and I feel fine)

 

[JudoJosh]

Not to detail but why has TTA fallen out of favor/popularity? Great stuff.

There is pharmaceutical interest in yet (I believe they are currently doing clinical trials with it) so there is a hesitation for supp companies to invest in stocking it since it will end up getting pulled off the market any day now. I think bb.com has already d/c'd its sale

 

[ddfox]

I just popped 2 caps 20 minutes ago with an espresso. Don't feel much stimulation at all. (Not in a bad way just saying my first dose was 2 caps and I feel fine)

Weird, cause I just did 1 scoop Alphamine + 1 Shift & I think I liked it better than when I do 1 Alphamine + 1 Norco.

 

[De__eB]

I wouldn't say it has, I see it recommended a ton still. The issue is supply of the ingredient is readily available for many. SNS is the only brand that still seems to put it out and they don't actively continue to make new batches (idk though because it does occasionally pop back up).

Yep, we've still got it out

 

[booneman77]

Sick stacking boone. I want to see the caps though!

Ask and you shall receive just took my first dose (2caps). Let the shredz commence

 

[CJNator]

Wait its out?

 

[breezy11]

Wait its out?

Yes sir. The insider sale ends tomorrow at 11:59pm EST, so you still have time to take advantage of the deal.

 

[whyteboi]

Is there some sort of dummy matrix detailing what stimulants this can be taken with? YC, EC, etc

 

[Woody]

I have Alphamax and Anabeta Elite.
Would Shift be better for a recomp or stick with Anabeta?

 

[GNO]

I see a bunch of people planning on stacking shift with alphamine, don't both have olive leaf? Is there is a max recommended dose of alpha with shift?

 

[Synapsin]

Is there some sort of dummy matrix detailing what stimulants this can be taken with? YC, EC, etc

No, but it can be taken with Y & C. E & C is at your discretion.

I have Alphamax and Anabeta Elite.
Would Shift be better for a recomp or stick with Anabeta?

I would stick with Anabeta for a recomp, although Shift is still pretty versatile.

I see a bunch of people planning on stacking shift with alphamine, don't both have olive leaf? Is there is a max recommended dose of alpha with shift?

It is fine to combine with alphamine. We actually have recommended doses for combining it with alphamine or norcodrene on the label directions. We suggest to take 1 capsule of Shift with 1-2 scoops of alphamine or 1-2 caps of norcodrene, and then take your second cap of Shift later. We also recommend you don't take more than 320 mg of caffeine with Shift.

 

[Geoforce]

We also recommend you don't take more than 320 mg of caffeine with Shift.

Is this for the entire day or no more than 320 mg per dosing with each cap of shift?

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Is this for the entire day or no more than 320 mg per dosing with each cap of shift?

But how will bro's dose Hyde and Shift for their morning chest workouts??

 

[Geoforce]

But how will bro's dose Hyde and Shift for their morning chest workouts??

I see what you did there.

I don't view 320 mg of caffeine as much for a day though. I'm easily around 600 a lot of days

 

[CJNator]

We also recommend you don't take more than 320 mg of caffeine with Shift.

Workout days I'm pushing 700-800 threw out the day, why shouldn't we take more then 320mg per cap,of shift?

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Workout days I'm pushing 700-800 threw out the day, why shouldn't we take more then 320mg per cap,of shift?

He is talking about in a bolus dose when taking your dose of Shift.

Ie. Pwo

 

[Geoforce]

He is talking about in a bolus dose when taking your dose of Shift.

Ie. Pwo

Thanks, just wanted to make sure. I figured as much, but double checking!

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Thanks, just wanted to make sure. I figured as much, but double checking!

No worries man. Everyone should be prudent with this, you feel like absolute trash if you over do it with caffeine and other stims and synephrine.

 

[Lynks8]

This morning I took 2 shift, 1 scoop alphamine, and 12.5 e (hcl). I'm not a stim junkie and I felt just fine. Looking forward to how this cut compares to last year's with just ec/alphamine.

 

[Synapsin]

Is this for the entire day or no more than 320 mg per dosing with each cap of shift?

Workout days I'm pushing 700-800 threw out the day, why shouldn't we take more then 320mg per cap,of shift?

Each time you take shift.

No worries man. Everyone should be prudent with this, you feel like absolute trash if you over do it with caffeine and other stims and synephrine.

^^^ synephrine side effects stem from it being combined with lots of caffeine

 

[LiveToLift]

Still waiting on some to arrive. Good to see people are receiving their orders and dialing in dosing.

 

[CJNator]

He is talking about in a bolus dose when taking your dose of Shift.

Ie. Pwo

Oh ok thanks!

 

[cubs1987]

stoked it comes today... will be starting up tomorrow AM

 

[bdcc]

Time for summer shreds.

 

[MidwestBeast]

Time for summer shreds.

Just summer? The world of bdcc is filled with 4 seasons of shredz (with a z, because it's serious).

 

[bdcc]

Just summer? The world of bdcc is filled with 4 seasons of shredz (with a z, because it's serious).

Yeah but if we released this product in November I would have said "time for winter shreds!"

 

[MidwestBeast]

Yeah but if we released this product in November I would have said "time for winter shreds!"

Otter hugs!!!

 

[LiveToLift]

stoked it comes today... will be starting up tomorrow AM

Awesome brother! I bet you will be camped out waiting for that order to arrive!

 

[breezy11]

For anyone who hasn't taken advantage of the insider yet (or wants to grab more ), the sale ends tonight at 11:59EST.

 

[LiveToLift]

For anyone who hasn't taken advantage of the insider yet (or wants to grab more ), the sale ends tonight at 11:59EST.

It's the final countdown! Don't miss out PES fam!