Running Serm inverse to ADT??

[DR.D]

Dr. D
In the not so distant fututre i am planning on a halo 50 cycle. I have read all the posts on what people have used for post cycle therapy. Mixed reviews of course. Checking to see if you might be willing to chime in on what you think is a good post cycle therapy. I know some use nolve some don't and so on. I am starting to get the post cycle therapy suff lined up so i don't drain my pocket at one time. I know the support supps, just wanted to knoe if you thought nolva is must, I know i will have it on hand. thanks for the help

You could probably use any SERM for a simple, short H50 only cycle, but toremifene citrate (Fareston) is my favorite for sure. If you have Nolva on hand already, you can just use that. I'm not a big Nolva fan though.

 

[DR.D]

... (I'm planning on adding RR in here aswell, but is everything ok so far for both the 4 and 6 week cycles?)
I hope to come away with 10 lbs (at the least) of lean body mass after PCT and keep a consistent sex life while "on" and during PCT.

I've been researching RR, but I've come up rather confused in its application. I hear it's supposed to replace RXT and be better, but it seems there are some things to RXT that are better. So here are my questions:

-I want to (a)keep shutdown as minimal as possible(testicular maintenance), (b)keep any "on" cycle gyno at bay, and (c)keep the sex life consistent during cycle. So I was planning on running RXT (25mg-50mg) while "on" in hopes to achieve this. Now I understand RXT is discountinued, and after reading the above post it seems RR may not be able to do this. If RR can't do the above, any recommendations what to do instead? If I misunderstood and RR can do all this, how would I dose it while "on"?

-How do you utilize RR in the "inverse" taper with torm?

Thanks in advance.

I like the 4wk plan best, and yes, RR can replace RXT cap per cap in your plan. Just take 1 or 2 caps/night the whole cycle. If you're using toremifene and Retain, you probably don't need RR post cycle. I think that Retain is designed to work as an AI, but who knows what it really is so I won't make claims as to dosing or whatever. Also, you PCT is big time over kill for the cycle you have planned. I'd reduce the tor doses to 120,60,30,30. That would cure you all by itself with nothing else added, but the ACT and fen additions are always a good idea.

 

[Fearhk213]

Cool, thanks Dr. D. You da man!:head: I'll stick with the 4 wk cycle and the tor suggestions. As far as the Retain, I thought it was just a cortisol blocker not an AI too? I'll scratch it and go with LX since I've used it before and dose it at 150/100/50/50. Since there's no more potential AI's in there would countinuing RR into PCT at 1/1/1-2/1-2 be wise? Is RR supposed to be taken with fats for absorbtion like RXT and LX? I was gonna take tor at night, does it matter if it's taken with or without food?

 

[wmarti7]

Dr. D
I do not have experiance with the torem you recomend. What would be a good dosage to run. I was thinking of running RR with it and some type of test boost. How does that sound.

 

[DR.D]

Cool, thanks Dr. D. You da man!:head: I'll stick with the 4 wk cycle and the tor suggestions. As far as the Retain, I thought it was just a cortisol blocker not an AI too? I'll scratch it and go with LX since I've used it before and dose it at 150/100/50/50. Since there's no more potential AI's in there would countinuing RR into post cycle therapy at 1/1/1-2/1-2 be wise? Is RR supposed to be taken with fats for absorbtion like RXT and LX? I was gonna take tor at night, does it matter if it's taken with or without food?

I think your right. It's just a cort blocker. The continuance of RR would therefore help for sure. I take it with 6ml of oil and 2.4ml of lecithin at night if I'm not eating a regular meal with some fat in it. The tor does not require a meal for good absorption.

Sorry it took me so long to get back to you man. It's been crazy lately.

 

[DR.D]

Dr. D
I do not have experiance with the torem you recomend. What would be a good dosage to run. I was thinking of running RR with it and some type of test boost. How does that sound.

What do you mean? For PCT or as a cycle in itself? If you're just using it to elevate test, 30-60mg/d is perfect and you can do that for months at a time. Adding RR with it and a test booster would be fine. Fenugreek and/or tribulus really stack well with torem and with the RR too you'd be pumping out a lot of test alright!

 

[Rostam]

What do you mean? For post cycle therapy or as a cycle in itself? If you're just using it to elevate test, 30-60mg/d is perfect and you can do that for months at a time. Adding RR with it and a test booster would be fine. Fenugreek and/or tribulus really stack well with torem and with the RR too you'd be pumping out a lot of test alright!

So there is no need to go as high as 120mg/day for the first week or so of PCT? Would it be okay and enough to keep it at 30-60mg/day for 3-4weeks stacked with RR and fenugreek/trib?

 

[DR.D]

So there is no need to go as high as 120mg/day for the first week or so of post cycle therapy? Would it be okay and enough to keep it at 30-60mg/day for 3-4weeks stacked with RR and fenugreek/trib?

No, I misunderstood your question. For PCT use it like normal 120mg for 2-3days, then finish the wk with 90. Then 60, 60-30, 30 for about a month total. I like to stack the fen up front and taper up later with the RR towards the end.

 

[Fearhk213]

I think your right. It's just a cort blocker. The continuance of RR would therefore help for sure. I take it with 6ml of oil and 2.4ml of lecithin at night if I'm not eating a regular meal with some fat in it. The tor does not require a meal for good absorption.

Sorry it took me so long to get back to you man. It's been crazy lately.

No worrys, I just appriciate your willingness to help out. Thanks again. By the way congrats on the IBE thing, I'm looking forward to seeing what gets cooked up. :hot:

 

[garrithv]

I finished a cycle on the 16th June and im still not completely recovered. This is my ordiginal thread:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/48846-superdrol-m1-4-a.html

I ran this for 4 weeks
Nolva 40,40,20,10
Activate 4 tabs a day
Fenugreek 4 tabs a day
DHEA 200mg,200,100,100

then on the 26th July started this
trib (1-2g)
fenu (2-3g)
zma 1 serving
rr (2,3,3,2)
act only had enough for 2 weeks
ended this 2 weeks ago

So after 11 weeks after my cycle im still getting hard on that are only 90%hard? Also libido isnt up like it used to be? My nuts are pretty much all there but I dont get morning wood, any help from DR.D or anyone.

 

[DR.D]

So after 11 weeks after my cycle im still getting hard on that are only 90%hard? Also libido isnt up like it used to be? My nuts are pretty much all there but I dont get morning wood, any help from DR.D or anyone.

Give it 2-3 more wks. If it doesn't kick back in, you may need another mini-PCT w/ Toremifene, RR, fen & ACT for like 2 more wks.

 

[shoestring]

Dr. D , is transdermal ATD in any way superior to oral? The makers of one of them (AIFM) claim that it has a possitive effect on sex drive. Would this make any sense? Also, it is unclear how much atd you are absorbing w/topicals. any opininons??

 

[DR.D]

Dr. D , is transdermal ATD in any way superior to oral? The makers of one of them (AIFM) claim that it has a possitive effect on sex drive. Would this make any sense? Also, it is unclear how much atd you are absorbing w/topicals. any opininons??

I'm not sure. I've heard good things too and I know that SERMs are very effective by topical application, but I am not convinced that libido would be positively influenced.

 

[garrithv]

thanks DR.D I was gonna take the two week to 3 week break anyway justed wanted to know I was on the right track.
I will get tor anyway cause I can use it in future cycles, quick question I only see one board sponsor that stocks tor, any idea how good their IGF is?

Also whats the difference between tor,HCG,HMG?

Definition for HMG: HMG aka Menotropin LH & FSH , compare to HCG contains only LH to cause a slight increase in testicle size. FSH stimulates the Sertoli cells to raise sperm output and cause a much greater increase in testicle size. Men who have used HMG report that their testicles have returned to normal size after long training cycles and frequently much bigger

 

[ABiLiTY]

Dr D

Its been awhile so im going to give an update. Im about to end week 4 out of 6 with this setup.
ATD 1\1\2\2\3\3
Nolva 60\60\40\40\20\20
Cab .250 mcg 2x per week.

I haven't felt much at all from my nipps until latley. They look slightly puffy, or maybe a tad bigger like they did on my last cycle, but its hard to tell because my bodyfat is increasing. I have small lumps which were almost gone maybe a week ago, that are now slightly enlarged, but still very small. None of this is noticable.

I have noticed small white specs on my nipple (1 of them), that might be lactation im not sure, but i don't want to mess with it.

Also Ive had some prostatic fluid droppin when i take a #2, but this has happened to me during my last couple pct's, and went away there after. Think it has something to do with atd.

Thank you

 

[DR.D]

thanks DR.D I was gonna take the two week to 3 week break anyway justed wanted to know I was on the right track.
I will get tor anyway cause I can use it in future cycles, quick question I only see one board sponsor that stocks tor, any idea how good their IGF is?

Also whats the difference between tor,HCG,HMG?

Definition for HMG: HMG aka Menotropin LH & FSH , compare to HCG contains only LH to cause a slight increase in testicle size. FSH stimulates the Sertoli cells to raise sperm output and cause a much greater increase in testicle size. Men who have used HMG report that their testicles have returned to normal size after long training cycles and frequently much bigger

I've never tried hMG, but I hear it should really be used adjunctively with hCG to get the most of it. The tor is a SERM and causes the greatest testicular increase of any other SERM in my experience. Very fast too usually. You could stack all three if long training cycles or over use has reduced your responsiveness to any of them specifically.

The rIGF-L3 sold by that company is very effective relative to others. Cheaper too I think in many cases. It retains potentcy for months diluted in bacteriostatic methyl-B-12 solution with no need for AA too.

 

[DR.D]

Dr D

Its been awhile so im going to give an update. Im about to end week 4 out of 6 with this setup.
ATD 112233
Nolva 606040402020
Cab .250 mcg 2x per week.

I haven't felt much at all from my nipps until latley. They look slightly puffy, or maybe a tad bigger like they did on my last cycle, but its hard to tell because my bodyfat is increasing. I have small lumps which were almost gone maybe a week ago, that are now slightly enlarged, but still very small. None of this is noticable.

I have noticed small white specs on my nipple (1 of them), that might be lactation im not sure, but i don't want to mess with it.

Also Ive had some prostatic fluid droppin when i take a #2, but this has happened to me during my last couple post cycle therapy's, and went away there after. Think it has something to do with atd.

Thank you

Did you ever have you prostate imaged or any tests run? Does it seem enlarged? I think you need some pituitary testing done as well and a full thyroid panel including a TSH. I know it sux but it does not sound like we are going to be able to clear this up and I think you need to go see an endo now. It's ok. Sometimes that's just what it takes and we have taken too long trying to fix this if something is really off or even worse metastatic at this point. Please get an endo and do it now. You are too young to be having this many problems!

 

[ABiLiTY]

I had a few blood test this summer that included a full thyroid panal. I had my nuts imaged, i dont know if any prostate stuff came up on it. After my last batch of tests and the ultrasound i had spoke to my doctor and he said "I had nothing to worry about". He also new about the gyno situation which he didn't think much of. Hopfully my student health has an endo, i'll check it out this week. I also had gone to the doctor the first time i noticed the prostatic fluid during #2, This was about a year ago. He said the only thing it could be was an STD (which i knew i didn't have) but he twice stuck something about the size of the tip of a clothes hanger in my d*ck, making for the worst expierience of my life.

thanks again

 

[TKE-PBOY]

If your prostate is enlarged you should have difficulty urinating are you experincing this??

 

[DR.D]

If your prostate is enlarged you should have difficulty urinating are you experincing this??

bump, plus you should be going more often that usual.

 

[RenegadeRows]

Dr. D ... I have been pondering some things lately.

It is generally agreed upon that gyno will go away after puberty for pre-pubertal and pubertal cases. Usually, as in my case, the gyno went away by the time i reached the age of 19-20.

Do you think the same rings true for steroid induced gynecomastia???
If, after a cycle that provoked gynecomastia, once your levels return to homeostasis for about a year or two, that too will go away on it's own?

I understand that breast tissue that is formed does not go away on it's own, so what do they mean by the teen's gyno going away?

 

[ABiLiTY]

TKE, Dr D

I'm pretty sure I piss the same frequency most of the time. I drink a ton of water so i'm always pissing.

As far as difficulty urinating, I've had some probs on cycle before. All though over the last couple monthes every time i try to take ephedrine i have all kinds of problems urinating, its bad (much worse then the on cycle). This didn't start till this past summer. Prior to this for about the last like 7 years i went pretty hard with ephedrine and never had a problem. This might go for other stimulants\fat burners. I also started taking adderal this past summer, i don't know if it has an effect.

thanks again.

 

[DR.D]

Dr. D ... I have been pondering some things lately.

It is generally agreed upon that gyno will go away after puberty for pre-pubertal and pubertal cases. Usually, as in my case, the gyno went away by the time i reached the age of 19-20.

Do you think the same rings true for steroid induced gynecomastia???
If, after a cycle that provoked gynecomastia, once your levels return to homeostasis for about a year or two, that too will go away on it's own?

I understand that breast tissue that is formed does not go away on it's own, so what do they mean by the teen's gyno going away?

The acute hyperplasia goes away if not present for too long, but if allowed to become fibrous can remain permanently. It only takes a few weeks to do that usually so for all practical purposes, yes, once it's there it's there to stay. Certain things can cause it to flare up on cycle. Too much estrogen, IGF, progesterone (usually combined with too much estrogen) and low androgen levels. Teen's gyno does not really go away either I don't think, unless you catch it extremely early (under 1 month) and hit it with some chemo like a non-aromatizable andro or AI for another month or too. It becomes very dormant and reduced in size and density, but it is still there forever IMO. It only needs the right hormonal environment to respond and grow after that.

 

[DR.D]

TKE, Dr D

I'm pretty sure I piss the same frequency most of the time. I drink a ton of water so i'm always pissing.

As far as difficulty urinating, I've had some probs on cycle before. All though over the last couple monthes every time i try to take ephedrine i have all kinds of problems urinating, its bad (much worse then the on cycle). This didn't start till this past summer. Prior to this for about the last like 7 years i went pretty hard with ephedrine and never had a problem. This might go for other stimulants\fat burners. I also started taking adderal this past summer, i don't know if it has an effect.

thanks again.

That's a common effect of sympathomimetics. Don't worry about urinary retention cause by ephedrine because that's a normal response. It sounds like you may just have a very touchy prostate. If you cycle again, and that should be later after you've stabilized, you might want to consider more prostate friendly compounds like deca or use finasteride simultaneously with milder androgens, not test.

An effective OTC product you may wish to try is Activate. Stack with a mixed phytosterol complex (diosgenin/stigmasterol) like found in fenugreek or tribulus and you can make some good gains with an improvement in prostate status. I don't work for DS anymore so do think I'm just pushing product (I never advise like that anyway.) It really might help and the gains and pumps are no joke.

 

[ABiLiTY]

Thanx DR D. I have used activate before with success, i didn't run it this time around because of all the weird **** going on. I'm thinking about getting back on fenugreek, my libido has been in the ****ter im thinking from the 3 atd and nolva. Although I've taken these together in all my pct's and dont remeber ever having libido problems, but i was usually taking dhea and fenugreek. I'm just a little worried because of how many weeks its been since ive used anabolics, and my cycle was short and not real supressive at all. Ive also been using prostate support and NAC.

Deca is prostate friendly? I was thinking about using it but was worried about the progesterone issue. I was thinking i would have to use compounds like winstrol, masterone, and other non aromatising compounds.

What are some good ways to monitor my gyno? I get very paranoid and I'm always looking, but i dont have anything that has been outstanding or even noticable to anyone else. I used to try to judge by the lumps, but there so small. Also i barley get any sensitivity itching or numbness. Right now I'm slowly getting bigger again so I have more body fat, and it appears my nipples are more puffy. One of them is slighly pionty.

I think i did most of this to my self though 2 cycles ago when i ran nolva and tren together for so long. Then when i noticed lactation, i litarly squeezed my nipps everyday for like 4 monthes (stupid).

thank you again for all your help, its very appreciated.

 

[preston25]

What about using the rebound reloaded instead of xt for pct. Basically the entire nha stack.

 

[ABiLiTY]

i could use RR. although i had used a bottle before i feel like xt was better for gyno.

 

[ABiLiTY]

Dr d

after i finish this 6 week gyno prevention:
ATD 1\1\2\2\3\3
Nolva 60\60\40\40\20\20
cab 1\2 ml 2x's per week

what should i do next? supplement wise, activate?? Do you know anything about diesel test?
I have fenotest and anagen, fenugreek dhea, more atd, and cissus(no way).

what are some good ways to monitor gyno\lactation?

 

[DR.D]

I would just stick to a steroidal AI after that for awhile. You could add the ACT but an AI would be crucial to any future protocol.

 

[ABiLiTY]

How out letro? what dose?

could i do letro, rebound reloaded and activate?
thanks

 

[ITguy]

I'm doing a slight modification to Dr. D's post cycle therapy as follows. Currently at the beginning of week 2.
wk1: Clomid 150mg/d, RXT 0mg/d, DHEA 150mg/d,
wk2: Clomid 100mg/d, RXT 25mg/d, DHEA 150mg/d,
wk3: Nolva 60mg/d, RXT 50mg/d, DHEA 100mg/d,
wk4: Nolva 40mg/d, RXT 50mg/d, DHEA 100mg/d
wk5: Nolva 20mg/d, RXT 75mg/d, DHEA 100mg/d
wk6: RXT 75mg/d, DHEA 100mg/d

Dr. D. or anyone. What do you think of this PCT and how would you dose and add in Diesel Test 2010 in this PCT? Not sure when to begin fenugreek as well. Week1? Week2 Week3?.... Also, I have some Toremifene that I could use as well.

 

[DR.D]

I'm doing a slight modification to Dr. D's post cycle therapy as follows. Currently at the beginning of week 2.
wk1: Clomid 150mg/d, RXT 0mg/d, DHEA 150mg/d,
wk2: Clomid 100mg/d, RXT 25mg/d, DHEA 150mg/d,
wk3: Nolva 60mg/d, RXT 50mg/d, DHEA 100mg/d,
wk4: Nolva 40mg/d, RXT 50mg/d, DHEA 100mg/d
wk5: Nolva 20mg/d, RXT 75mg/d, DHEA 100mg/d
wk6: RXT 75mg/d, DHEA 100mg/d

Dr. D. or anyone. What do you think of this post cycle therapy and how would you dose and add in Diesel Test 2010 in this PCT? Not sure when to begin fenugreek as well. Week1? Week2 Week3?.... Also, I have some Toremifene that I could use as well.

Unless you're really shut down, you can start the Nolva at 40mg right from wk 3 instead of 60. You can start the DT right now with the fen. You can probably cut the doses of each a little by stacking both simultaneously. That's what I do when I use trib and fen together, but the dose must be ramped one more cap every wk for 3 or 4 wks tops to maintain benefits. I'd just save the tor for next time if you are already 2wks into high dose Clomid. The rest looks great.

 

[TKE-PBOY]

That's a common effect of sympathomimetics. Don't worry about urinary retention cause by ephedrine because that's a normal response. It sounds like you may just have a very touchy prostate. If you cycle again, and that should be later after you've stabilized, you might want to consider more prostate friendly compounds like deca or use finasteride simultaneously with milder androgens, not test.

An effective OTC product you may wish to try is Activate. Stack with a mixed phytosterol complex (diosgenin/stigmasterol) like found in fenugreek or tribulus and you can make some good gains with an improvement in prostate status. I don't work for DS anymore so do think I'm just pushing product (I never advise like that anyway.) It really might help and the gains and pumps are no joke.

Dr. D,

I hate to disagree with you on this one:

Don't worry about urinary retention cause by ephedrine because that's a normal response.

Ephedrine sure is a sympathomimetic amine, but it is a vasoconstrictor therefore it has an effect on cardiac output, heart rate and bloodpressure. Due to the increased blood flow the effect on the urinary system is an increased urine output and not water retention. Well that is what i know. There is probably something that you know that i don't, please let me know your reasoning to this.

 

[ABiLiTY]

Intresting. I def have trouble urinating immediatly when i start taking ephedrine.

Dr D, i just picked up some stuff, what kinda stack should i go with for the next 4 weeks? Do you suggest trying something other then nolva or letro? like tore?

but i have on hand: rebound reloaded, atd, act, deisel test, anagen, fenotest, no expload, cialabol (usp new creatine), fenugreek dhea. also have nolva and letro.
been using nolva the last 6 weeks. been using atd probably the last 9 weeks or so. Been using cabergoline for like 5 monthes.

I have noticed that alcohol seems to make my gyno worse. I went to my buddies wedding this week and had a few drinks, thereafter my nipps started itching and became more puffy. Marijuanna seems to have an effect also, only in high doses.

thanx again

 

[BigMattTx]

I am no Dr. D but I personally think that running those compounds for lengthy amounts of time could have serious side effects. Hell, ATD alone made my **** go numb and I only ran it in the 25-50mg range for less than a month!

 

[DR.D]

Dr. D,

I hate to disagree with you on this one: Ephedrine sure is a sympathomimetic amine, but it is a vasoconstrictor therefore it has an effect on cardiac output, heart rate and bloodpressure. Due to the increased blood flow the effect on the urinary system is an increased urine output and not water retention. Well that is what i know. There is probably something that you know that i don't, please let me know your reasoning to this.

Yes! You are quite correct, but ephedrine relaxes the vesical detrusor muscle, and increases contraction of the vesical sphincter (agonist action on the alpha adrenergic receptor) to encourage acute urinary retention in most cases. It is particularly noticeable with the primary amine (phenylpropanolamine, PPA) which is no longer commonly available I don't think but was once a common ingredient of cold caps and OTC diet pills and used to prevent bed wetting by the same mechanism without as much CNS stimulation as ephedrine.

 

[DR.D]

Intresting. I def have trouble urinating immediatly when i start taking ephedrine.

Dr D, i just picked up some stuff, what kinda stack should i go with for the next 4 weeks? Do you suggest trying something other then nolva or letro? like tore?

but i have on hand: rebound reloaded, atd, act, deisel test, anagen, fenotest, no expload, cialabol (usp new creatine), fenugreek dhea. also have nolva and letro.
been using nolva the last 6 weeks. been using atd probably the last 9 weeks or so. Been using cabergoline for like 5 monthes.

I have noticed that alcohol seems to make my gyno worse. I went to my buddies wedding this week and had a few drinks, thereafter my nipps started itching and became more puffy. Marijuanna seems to have an effect also, only in high doses.

thanx again

I would just use a steroidal AI like the ATD or Reload you have and wean off of everything else. Avoid caffeine too. The Nolva has had plenty of time to work and so has the cab really. The NO and creatine stuff is fine to stack, but I'd be really careful and slow adding any new herbals with endocrine manipulating effects. Your system is still not stable if you can't even have a few drinks on the w/e. Hang in there man. It can just take time.

 

[ABiLiTY]

Can i run the activate also? you suggested this to me a couple post back to help with prostate.

no caffine? even pre workout?

So how about
Cialabol
ATD 3 caps?
activate
could i stack rebound reloaded? or would this be rudundant?

thanx again

 

[DR.D]

Can i run the activate also? you suggested this to me a couple post back to help with prostate.

no caffine? even pre workout?

So how about
Cialabol
ATD 3 caps?
activate
could i stack rebound reloaded? or would this be rudundant?

thanx again

Add the Activate slowly and use only one or the other on the ATD or Reload. Caffeine at 200mg/d or less would normally be fine if your nips don't puff on it, but the alcohol sensitivity is what startled me. Caffeine is more estrogenic that alcohol. The Cialabol is fine.

 

[TKE-PBOY]

Yes! You are quite correct, but ephedrine relaxes the vesical detrusor muscle, and increases contraction of the vesical sphincter (agonist action on the alpha adrenergic receptor) to encourage acute urinary retention in most cases. It is particularly noticeable with the primary amine (phenylpropanolamine, PPA) which is no longer commonly available I don't think but was once a common ingredient of cold caps and OTC diet pills and used to prevent bed wetting by the same mechanism without as much CNS stimulation as ephedrine.

I knew there was something that I didn't know, thanks Dr. D.

 

[TKE-PBOY]

Add the Activate slowly and use only one or the other on the ATD or Reload. Caffeine at 200mg/d or less would normally be fine if your nips don't puff on it, but the alcohol sensitivity is what startled me. Caffeine is more estrogenic that alcohol. The Cialabol is fine.

Caffeine is more estrogenic that alcohol.

Interesting, that is definetely something that i didn't know.

 

[ABiLiTY]

thanx dr d.

I may use rebound reloaded, ive been using atd for the past 9-10 weeks, and i have used it an awful lot of it over the past year, probably 75% of the time.

I think caffeine could be a big part of my gyno problem being that i have\do use allot of stimulants.

 

[ABiLiTY]

My nipps have been itching pretty bad. Havent been as bad as it currently is since i was "on".

 

[TKE-PBOY]

Dr. D, how can you determine how estrogenic a compound is or if the compound is estrogenic at all?

 

[preston25]

Im about to start a cycle of test prop. I want to stay lean so i am going to stack it with proviron. As far as pct, is nolva sufficient, or should i add nha stack? I apoplogize if this isnt the right forum. Please advise. this is my first test cycle.

 

[DR.D]

Dr. D, how can you determine how estrogenic a compound is or if the compound is estrogenic at all?

It's not always that well known. Caffeine increases fibrocystic growth in breasts, but not many people know that! The first thing a doc will tell a woman after she is diagnosed with fibrocystic disease is to eliminate caffeine, and that's why. Unfortunately, lots of things floating around in the environment are estrogenic these days.

 

[DR.D]

Im about to start a cycle of test prop. I want to stay lean so i am going to stack it with proviron. As far as post cycle therapy, is nolva sufficient, or should i add nha stack? I apoplogize if this isnt the right forum. Please advise. this is my first test cycle.

The NHA stack is just icing on the cake. It is not "essential".

 

[preston25]

Thanks Dr D!

 

[TKE-PBOY]

It's not always that well known. Caffeine increases fibrocystic growth in breasts, but not many people know that! The first thing a doc will tell a woman after she is diagnosed with fibrocystic disease is to eliminate caffeine, and that's why. Unfortunately, lots of things floating around in the environment are estrogenic these days.

Thanks Dr. D

 

[preston25]

Again i apologize if this is the wrong forum. Im about to start my first cycle of test prop. Through my research ive concluded that proviron would be a good choice for its blocking effects. Would i need to take it the entire cycle of test prop or the few weeks of the cycle. Ive been told that i wouldnt need to take anything at 300mg a week. But i want to keep cut during the cycle. Or would nolva or clomid work better? Nolva seems to be more of a curative approach.