Review: 1,5 years cycling SARMs (female, bloods, comparison pictures, Ostarine + Rad)

[Chimas]

Cheers,

Posthistory here on AM
it's been a while since my first post here on AM about SARMs - pretty much exactly 18 months.
In my first thread here ("Female: First cycle on Ostarine and Ligandrol, some open questions"), I had some basic questions, back then about Osta and Ligandrol, which I considered. After that, I decided to go for Osta only for one cycle and after that added RAD-140. I wrote a review about my second cycle overall including both, Osta and Rad-140, which you can find under "Female cycle on Ostarine and Rad-140 (Bloods included)". In the first thread, you can read a pretty detailed log about my first cycle with Osta including pictures of changes within my first cycle.

General things about me

• Female
• 29 now
• Weight training for a little more than 5 years now
• BW at 71-73kg currently
• 165cm
• Obvious living somewhere where the metric system applies
• Workout at 6 days (4-split with heavy and "light" units with tons of volume), Cardio at 5-7 days
• No competitions so far, no plans to do so, neither bodybuilding nor powerlifting

Cycle design

• First cycle: 8mg Osta only
• Second cycle: 8weeks Osta 10mg ed, 6 weeks Rad-140 4mg ed
• Third to last cycle: 10mg Osta and 4mg Rad-140 ed for 8 weeks
• In between always 8-10 weeks off
• I believe an overall of 6 or 7 cycles

Other supplements alongside

• TUDCA 500mg ed on-cycle, and 250mg ed until 2 weeks past cycle
• NAC 2*500mg starting mid 2nd cycle (please note my "comments section"! This is an important one!!)
• Omega-3 ed 3-4gr
• Krill oil 2g ed starting within the 4th cycle
• Beta-Alanin pre-workout 5gr starting 3rd cycle
• Non-stim pre-workouts
• In phases Alpha GPC, Huperzine A, Naringinin, Quadrulingus cissus - sorry I don't recall during which cycles exactly
• HMB 5gr ed
• Creatin 10gr ed
• Curcumin 2000mg ed
• Vitamin D e2d 2000iµ
• Multivit ed
• Zinc 25mg ed
• Magnesium 3-4gr ed

Bloodwork (Basline/Peak cycle/8weeks past cycle)
June 2017 is baseline. September 2018 is 8weeks off SARMs and right before I started my last cycle with SARMs so far. With both, baseline and September 2018, I was in follicular phase.
Please note the comment section!!! Important info there about my testosterone levels...

Strenght

• Went up very much during the first two to three cycles
• Was after that maintainable but did not increase noticably for squats (but for bench)
  • Start Squat: 100kg (220lbs) * 5 reps / 3 sets @70kg (154lbs) BW
  • End Squat: 125 kg (275lbs) *5 reps / 3 sets @ 71kg BW (156lbs) I typically don't max out squats
  • Start Bench: 55kg (121lbs) * 5 reps / 5 sets @70kg and a 1RM of 65kg (143lbs) BW (started flat benching again in my second cycle, so pretty much in the beginning as well)
  • End Bench: 80kg (176lbs) *3 reps @ 71kg BW (156lbs)

Well being, body changes etc along the cycles

• I am still not a big dieter, as you can see. My eating is not bad, I would say, but I simply have appettite like a monster Don't tell me about clean-eating: I don't mind eating 500gr Oats with 300gr Whey at once for breakfast
• Lifestyle changes, illnesses and other training impacting factors:
  • I quit smoking in September 2017 and did not start again ever since
  • My eardrum was perforated in April 2018. I continued training high volume but was off heavy lifts for approx 3-4 weeks.
  • I had a bike accident in July 2018 and surgery in August 2018 (not related to the accident, but shortly after). Both got me out of heavy training for approx 3-4 weeks (but I continued training high volume)
  • Travel time was rather low and always off cycle.
  • I might have missed an overall of 12-14 workouts in those 18 months.
• In my former posts, I described an immense increase in sex drive, well being, strength and quite some leaning out throughout the first two cycles along with some quite vivid dreams. I also did not have my menstruation anymore. All of those effects vanished slowly starting with the third cycle (although not changing brands and even still using the same bottle!).
• I initially blamed stress but got very very suspicious... I did not see a reason why this is happening. At the same time, I added quite some additional supplements as described above to my daily consume, including NAC. I did so, because Osta and Rad were brutal on my lipids, which I misinterpreted at that time and overrated completely. I was afraid that they could be harsh on my liver over time as well, although I had bloodwork coming back fine (from December 2017, see above - cycle peak!!).
• I never doubted that the things I was taking was legit!
• I stopped worrying about the vanishing effect and my constantly decreasing sex drive (also on-cycle!) and just thought "Nevermind... let's just switch to the "real stuff" once you finish the bottle".
• Only in the beginning of my last cycle, I came across an article where NAC is used to lower testosterone levels in PCOS women (see picture attached). In this article, they also show (see image from the study below!) that it also lowers testosterone levels in healthy adult women. By now, I am convinced that this is what happened to me. You can clearly see in my bloodwork from September 2018, that my testosterone was significantly lower than baseline (almost below reference!).
• I immediately stopped taking NAC (I was on-cycle that time). 2 weeks later, the "on-feeling" came back again like in my first cycle. I did not get my menstruation. Strength went up.
• I am going to have a final bloodwork done in February before I start actual AAS. I am excited to see what my testosterone levels look like then. By then I will be off NAC for a good 4 months and off sarms for 12 weeks, which should be a decent time to recover my own test levels.
• On the other handside, I am also pretty confessed that NAC saved me from any signs of virilization. I did not experience anything. I have read quite some logs by now, and I think it is very likely that virlization would normally occur during cycles of that length and with that frequency because of the severe SHBG suppression.

Picture from Fulghesu, A. (2002). N-acetyl-cysteine treatment improves insulin sensitivity in women with polycystic ovary syndrome. Fertility and Sterility, 77(6), 1128–1135. doi:10.1016/s0015-0282(02)03133-3

Resumee
What would I do differently? What do I regret?

• Taking NAC!!
  Without any reason in bloodwork, but simply proactively to prevent any damage (that was even provingly not there!)!
• Research
  I normally am very careful with my research and well aware that women work differently than men. I however trusted everything I read about NAC without doing research on the specific effect on women. That was a mistake.
• Nutritional experiments
  I dont think I can ever leave that be (check out my first post here on AM for details) but I tend to do very stupid things every now and then. I think I did that 3 times during my cycles, including several WEEKS on 600kcal taken in purely via shakes. Please don't ask for reasons... It is... complicated...

Way ahead
Going to switch to something different now. I considered sticking with SARM for some more time after I took out the NAC and noticed that the nice effects came back. However, after knowing more about the effects of SARMs to females, I do not believe in the claim that they are explicitly female friendly anymore. Also, their legal status is not an argument anymore.

Show me those pics!
Yeah and I know that y'all look for those pics... well... there you go.
Messed up the back pose in the more recent pics.

Feel free to speculate whether this could have been done naturally or not. Really. I don't mind but also don't care, because frankly - we all don't know what would have been possible for me personally. I don't know how impressive or unimpressive my results are for that timeframe, strengthwise and physically, because I personally have not seen such a "long term" cycle report from a female (neither from a male, I think). One of the reasons to post here.


Hope this was informative. Let me know if you have any questions or I missed anything.

 

[Nac]

1) as a male, I think you look great in both sets of pics. Youre very lucky, looks like you carry butt/thigh weight in a "non sloppy" way, lol if that makes sense

2) your bench numbers improved nicely given the timeframe

 

[BlockBuilder]

There are some changes but you really need to focus on diet and if I were you I would try to do a progressive cut. Lose as much bodyfat as you can while maintaining strength and muscle and you’ll look phenomenal. The best success I’ve had with bulking was when I lost as much bodyfat as possible and THEN did a lean bulk which I’m in the process of now

 

[Humble]

Subbed to learn.

What is/are your goal(s)?

They seem to be a body recomposition (leaning out) and to gain strength. Is that correct?

 

[Chimas]

There are some changes but you really need to focus on diet and if I were you I would try to do a progressive cut. Lose as much bodyfat as you can while maintaining strength and muscle and you’ll look phenomenal. The best success I’ve had with bulking was when I lost as much bodyfat as possible and THEN did a lean bulk which I’m in the process of now

Thanks for your comment. Eventually I will cut, maybe I won't. It is a question of goals really. I have quite some history with battling whatever i am at the moment. I come from an eating disorder (anorexia, was down to 32kg at my worst) and probably that is one of the reasons why it makes a lot more sense to me to respect/appreciate whatever I might be at the moment without any destructive behavior on myself. Thinner doesn't necessarily make me happier. But I can always go with stronger.
Also, ever since i have been in some hormonal disbalance that doesn't help much.
Do I want to know what's under the chubby? Hell yeah. But mostly, "moderate cutting" will escalate with me. Nature of the thing.

I do understand all the perspectives on what would be best from a bodybuilding point of view. However, this might simply not be my objective. I'm not planning to compete. I want to be strong, ideally also look like that - sure. I'm going with what works for me and what feels safe for me at the moment. Lifting always does, for diet that can change within a matter of days.

Subbed to learn.

What is/are your goal(s)?

They seem to be a body recomposition (leaning out) and to gain strength. Is that correct?

That is the ideal outcome I'm not looking for very lean though. Unfortunately, I can not describe what i would like to look like - I would not describe my own body (that's part of the body dissociation I guess). Currently I feel extremely comfortable and probably most self- confident in the gym being one strong b'tch

 

[tyga tyga]

You can see visual differences in your quads and abductors.

Pretty cool to see bloodwork on a female who’s used sarms.

 

[jim2509]

Congrats on the gains firstly...impressive.
Slightly concerning the shift in your LDL but am sure that'll return to normal levels in time with help.

Forgot to add if you are going to cut in a future cycle try out Iron Legions Invictus/VII-KT stack I had some good results with it.

 

[RickyBlobby]

1) as a male, I think you look great in both sets of pics. Youre very lucky, looks like you carry butt/thigh weight in a "non sloppy" way, lol if that makes sense

2) your bench numbers improved nicely given the timeframe

This. Honestly I think you look better with a little more meat on ya. It's in the right places

 

[Old Witch]

I had read that women could likely use the same doses of certain sarms as men because of the very selectivity that makes them the sarms they are. Namely lgd and ostarine specifically. Should be no virilization or hirsutism, though if I’m wrong I’d love to read more about it. I have been trying to crash course myself on hydantoin and aryl propionamide analogs such as lgd 4033 (hydantoin based) and ostarine (aryl propionamide based) as well as s4 (aryl propionamide based) for he best part of this year as they were not on the market at all really when I last stopped using PEDs.

 

[BarryScott]

In honesty, from the photos it wouldn't seem like there's a huge difference for that kind of timeframe. Bit more outer quad sweep, bit more tricep. It would be decent enough if it were 3-6 months, but a year and a half, hmm. I'm not saying this to be negative or a dick but because you said you worked out 6 days a week and did a lot of volume, my guess (and it's just my guess) would be that you're overtraining and would get better results from less.

 

[Chimas]

I had read that women could likely use the same doses of certain sarms as men because of the very selectivity that makes them the sarms they are. Namely lgd and ostarine specifically. Should be no virilization or hirsutism, though if I’m wrong I’d love to read more about it. I have been trying to crash course myself on hydantoin and aryl propionamide analogs such as lgd 4033 (hydantoin based) and ostarine (aryl propionamide based) as well as s4 (aryl propionamide based) for he best part of this year as they were not on the market at all really when I last stopped using PEDs.

There is no dedicated study about it afaik, so I am going to explain it in my words from my understanding of the processes.
Virlization appears to be not a problem of high free test in general in women but the ratio between estrogen and free test. The biggest problems for women must occur once you bind to SHBG very effectively, which SARMs do. As so often, binding to SHBG does something completely different for men than for women - which often leads to statements that are made either based on a study performed exclusively on men or by a man who does not know too much about female hormone system. Actually for us, the affinity to bind to AR should be rather low than high. SARM are suppressive to quite some extent. We know that by now. For women, they suppress - other than men - estrogen. So the situation you're creating is a low-estrogen environment with an increased free testosterone level, which is the perfect baseline for virilization. However, the free test is not as high as with AAS, so it does not occur that quickly. To combine SARMs with let's say Var might be rather a worse idea (talking about virilization) than a good one. Whenever you manage to keep the ratio between your hormones as similar as possible to natural level as a women (e.g. by taking estrogen while on-cycle) you could go around most of the virlization.

In honesty, from the photos it wouldn't seem like there's a huge difference for that kind of timeframe. Bit more outer quad sweep, bit more tricep. It would be decent enough if it were 3-6 months, but a year and a half, hmm. I'm not saying this to be negative or a dick but because you said you worked out 6 days a week and did a lot of volume, my guess (and it's just my guess) would be that you're overtraining and would get better results from less.

I have kind of been waiting for this because I pretty much agree especially looking at how much I was working on my shoulders. I do think that they grew quite a bit, but yeah... Bodyfat probably -.- The process was even less the year before I would say (in my first thread). Maybe this is where I can push myself to? Often thought about getting a personal trainer, but then thought it is silly to do so, if I do not have any aspirations to compete... Also I was afraid that people would not believe me that e.g. putting me on a rigid diet 1) might do me more harm than good and 2) might not work the way it works for others.
Baseline is: I am absolutely underwhelmed myself. I am not saying at all that you can not reach more. I have been working out seriously for 4 years when I started (which is probably not visible, but I think my strength values were pretty solid in the beginning as well, considering the fact that I was not powerlifting, but more into ... something between powerlifting and bodybuilding).
I usually train even 6-7 days a week in a 4-split. The first 4 days might be "lighter" with high volume, the next 4 days would then be heavy. I don't always go all in and never had issues with injuries, recovery or exhaustion. But yeah. I am also not very good at listening to the signals of my own body.

 

[Heybros1]

More proof that sarms suck

 

[mase1]

Yeah genetics are king or queen.

 

[user567]

Are you really taking 10g of creatine daily? That's high.

Sarms definitely wreck your lipids. My LDL went up 70 points during 10 week LGD run. Settled back down after cycle

 

[Chimas]

Are you really taking 10g of creatine daily? That's high.

Sarms definitely wreck your lipids. My LDL went up 70 points during 10 week LGD run. Settled back down after cycle

Hey. Didn't feel like 10gr is much, considering what is in some of the boosters alone. Typically, I consume 5gr before and 5gr after my workout.

I am going for my next extensive bloodwork in the end of Feb. End of Dec 17 and End of Sept 18 were different labs I was testing through (so were all the lipid-only checks I did in between (6 in total, I think)).

 

[user567]

Hey. Didn't feel like 10gr is much, considering what is in some of the boosters alone. Typically, I consume 5gr before and 5gr after my workout.

I am going for my next extensive bloodwork in the end of Feb. End of Dec 17 and End of Sept 18 were different labs I was testing through (so were all the lipid-only checks I did in between (6 in total, I think)).

Most studies show no benefit over 5grams a day once your body is "loaded" with creatine. Also the timing of injestion doesnt matter either.