PWO besides mesomorph (but same strength)

[bpowell1985]

NooWave Supplements POWR. I can't post images on here yet but if you do a search on google you can find it. Looks solid.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Just a quick note about the Wicked, about 50% of my customers love it, and 50% said it took about 2 hours to kick in, or was just very weak but long acting. DMAA with any silicate apparently messes with some peoples absorption rate of the stimulant. It actually worked well for me, but was too inconsistent across the board. Hi Tech had told me that it did not come out as they had planned.

On a side note with all these DMAA preworkouts, does anyone feel the same sense of euphoria/ motivation as the preworkouts that used DMAA 5 or so years ago? It just seems like its a completely different compound. Ive asked many people, and most agree, but can not explain why.

Back during the previous "pre-ban," wave of DMAA pre-workouts, was when I first started using pre-workouts. Back then, even most of the PWOs in Vitamin Shoppe had DMAA. I used them lifting in HS (for football, and lifting class), so I was not used to taking any pre-workouts or stimulants besides coffee and energy drinks, so now I was going from maybe 200mg caffeine to 200-300mg+ caffeine AND DMAA. Needless to say, it was amazing, with tons of energy and tunnel vision focus. Tolerance built up over time, going from the normal serving to the max serving for a lot of people. Then DMAA got banned, and people still wanted that feeling, so new stims were tried, and, more commonly, caffeine and other stimulant doses were increased. So, from then to now, you're looking at 5+ years of building a stimulant tolerance, and probably using more caffeine and stimulants each year than the last (what's a stim break? Most people don't really take them), and it's hard to have that same crazy effects as back in the day, IMO. With that said, I had some bulk DMAA, and mixed it with caffeine and whatnot, and, even at moderate doses (I think 250mg caffeine and 50mg DMAA), the feeling brought me back a little, and I didn't play with the 300mg+ caffeine and 70mg+ DMAA, plus maybe even some other stims. Just my $0.02.

 

[shockrock3]

Just a quick note about the Wicked, about 50% of my customers love it, and 50% said it took about 2 hours to kick in, or was just very weak but long acting. DMAA with any silicate apparently messes with some peoples absorption rate of the stimulant. It actually worked well for me, but was too inconsistent across the board. Hi Tech had told me that it did not come out as they had planned.

On a side note with all these DMAA preworkouts, does anyone feel the same sense of euphoria/ motivation as the preworkouts that used DMAA 5 or so years ago? It just seems like its a completely different compound. Ive asked many people, and most agree, but can not explain why.

I've been harping on this for a LONG time now...the answer is no. I'm telling you it's being cut with something else...now do I have proof, of course not but it's not the same feeling, not even close. Like your customers...word is spreading that "this" DMAA now isn't the same as back then...something extremely fishy is up, something stinks bad.
Now like you mentioned...it could possibly be all these ingredients in today's pre's are negating the effects of DMAA when mixed together, entirely possible....or....we as the consumer are getting ripped off.
OG Jack3d 25mg of DMAA felt damn good...yes we eventually had to increase the scoops but you still got that intense zoned "feeling"...nowadays you see these products i.e. Wicked/SP250, etc. etc. at 70mg threshold of DMAA a scoop and....practically nada??? 70mg of DMAA should rock you out....yet people aren't getting tweaked?? Something isn't right man...and it just falls on deaf ears.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I've been harping on this for a LONG time now...the answer is no. I'm telling you it's being cut with something else...now do I have proof, of course not but it's not the same feeling, not even close. Like your customers...word is spreading that "this" DMAA now isn't the same as back then...something extremely fishy is up, something stinks bad.
Now like you mentioned...it could possibly be all these ingredients in today's pre's are negating the effects of DMAA when mixed together, entirely possible....or....we as the consumer are getting ripped off.
OG Jack3d 25mg of DMAA felt damn good...yes we eventually had to increase the scoops but you still got that intense zoned "feeling"...nowadays you see these products i.e. Wicked/SP250, etc. etc. at 70mg threshold of DMAA a scoop and....practically nada??? 70mg of DMAA should rock you out....yet people aren't getting tweaked?? Something isn't right man...and it just falls on deaf ears.

I have a different potential explanation:

Anyone who has significant experience with the "pre-ban" DMAA products ~5-6 years ago has likely been using pre-workouts consistently for that entire time, and it seems that most people don't actually take stimulant breaks. So, we already know that people using the old DMAA products had to go from 1 scoop to 2 scoops (etc), so they already started building tolerance. Then DMAA was taken off the market, and people still wanted that same energy and feeling from a pre-workout, so the pre-workouts just added even more caffeine and other stimulants to try to get the same feeling back. So, for these last 5 years of so, we've had people continually increase the dose of caffeine and other stimulants they use. Then DMAA comes back, and, even though the doses are pretty high, you've had 5 years of building a tolerance to caffeine and stimulants in general, so it's not really reasonable to expect the same kick as that long ago. To illustrate this, get some feedback on people new to pre-workouts (or only used to C4-type products) to try a full serving of one of these new DMAA pre-workouts and see what they think; it's likely that it'll be too strong for them (or they'll love the intensity of it). Sort of like we did back when we first tried DMAA and didn't have massive stimulant tolerance. Again, that's just my $0.02.

 

[WhiteRabbit]

Yes, you are EXACTLY right with your description. Part of my thought process went to 2 possibilities. 1- That was NOT dmaa back then, but similar to the Craze Phenethylamine derivative, amphetamine analog. 2- Is there an isomer of dmaa? I know they can have differing affects from isomers, etc. at the molecular level. But technically my guess is that DMAA is now multiple different compounds, similar aspect to AMP Citrate being (i believe 7?) different actual compounds. I have never had a workout like I did off original dmaa, and I took an 8 month break from stimulants, still with disappointing results, so the tolerance theory is out for me. Also, how can a brand new gym goer use high caffeine more effectively than 65mg dmaa? And back then, I dont remember DMAA working differently in everyone. We ALL had awesome experiences. So i am extremely skeptical that this new dmaa is really even bioavailable or dmaa at all.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Yes, you are EXACTLY right with your description. Part of my thought process went to 2 possibilities. 1- That was NOT dmaa back then, but similar to the Craze Phenethylamine derivative, amphetamine analog. 2- Is there an isomer of dmaa? I know they can have differing affects from isomers, etc. at the molecular level. But technically my guess is that DMAA is now multiple different compounds, similar aspect to AMP Citrate being (i believe 7?) different actual compounds. I have never had a workout like I did off original dmaa, and I took an 8 month break from stimulants, still with disappointing results, so the tolerance theory is out for me. Also, how can a brand new gym goer use high caffeine more effectively than 65mg dmaa? And back then, I dont remember DMAA working differently in everyone. We ALL had awesome experiences. So i am extremely skeptical that this new dmaa is really even bioavailable or dmaa at all.

If I had to buy into either of these theories, and I'm not saying I do, it would definitely be the first one you mentioned in the above post. With all of the companies that have gotten in trouble for spiking products (even amino spiking with protein), the rise of fully-disclosed labels (less prop blends today then back then), more educated consumers in general, and increased "interest" and threats of involvement/regulations/bans (and actual penalties for violations) by the government, it seems more likely that something was added to or removed from the label back then as opposed to now.

 

[Atl7391]

That makes sense, the body adapts over time.

 

[nbfootball65]

Wicked I though was better than mesomorph. Dust Extreme is also good but, I feel like it doesn't last as long as mesomorph. Superpump 250 is also a good pre.

 

[WhiteRabbit]

That makes sense, the body adapts over time.

How can someones body adapt to a substance it has never been exposed to?

 

[Atl7391]

I meant in regards to putting stimulants in your body over time. And DMAA being mixed with all these other stimulants, it won't hit you as hard. Kind of like when you smoke weed for the first time, you get high af and the giggles and hungry. But over time of you for instance do Coke and drink that weed won't hit you as hard anymore.

 

[Brandinooooo]

How can someones body adapt to a substance it has never been exposed to?

Cross tolerance for the same receptors. And yes there are analogues to DMAA. So its possible that pre ban was an analogue and now we have regular or vice versa.

 

[WhiteRabbit]

Cross tolerance for the same receptors. And yes there are analogues to DMAA. So its possible that pre ban was an analogue and now we have regular or vice versa.

Which receptor? and which other common stimulant are you assuming would even cause a down regulation at that specific receptor?

 

[scump]

How can someones body adapt to a substance it has never been exposed to?

if you were never exposed to it then how can you say todays DMAA is weaker then the pre-ban DMAA?

You would have nothing to compare it to so your opinion is moot.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Cross tolerance for the same receptors. And yes there are analogues to DMAA. So its possible that pre ban was an analogue and now we have regular or vice versa.

????

 

[BlackTiger22]

I see wat you did there

 

[AntM1564]

Cross tolerance for the same receptors. And yes there are analogues to DMAA. So its possible that pre ban was an analogue and now we have regular or vice versa.

This is always interesting to me. Whenever a thread about a stim break pops up, it seems like various forum members are split 50/50 on whether this helps or not.

 

[shockrock3]

I have a different potential explanation:

Anyone who has significant experience with the "pre-ban" DMAA products ~5-6 years ago has likely been using pre-workouts consistently for that entire time, and it seems that most people don't actually take stimulant breaks. So, we already know that people using the old DMAA products had to go from 1 scoop to 2 scoops (etc), so they already started building tolerance. Then DMAA was taken off the market, and people still wanted that same energy and feeling from a pre-workout, so the pre-workouts just added even more caffeine and other stimulants to try to get the same feeling back. So, for these last 5 years of so, we've had people continually increase the dose of caffeine and other stimulants they use. Then DMAA comes back, and, even though the doses are pretty high, you've had 5 years of building a tolerance to caffeine and stimulants in general, so it's not really reasonable to expect the same kick as that long ago. To illustrate this, get some feedback on people new to pre-workouts (or only used to C4-type products) to try a full serving of one of these new DMAA pre-workouts and see what they think; it's likely that it'll be too strong for them (or they'll love the intensity of it). Sort of like we did back when we first tried DMAA and didn't have massive stimulant tolerance. Again, that's just my $0.02.

I can't discredit your assessment...it's possible obviously....but this widespread? Everyone just got tolerant of DMAA after years of it being off the market? Again you make a valid argument, I just don't believe it. Knowing how shady this industry is I wouldn't doubt that whatever is being masqueraded as DMAA...isn't even DMAA at all like someone said. I still have a hard time believing that DMAA comes back, the dose is jacked up to 70mg in some products...and people aren't getting zooted. I still think something is very fishy.

The only pre that honestly has rocked me the past year or two was a non DMAA pre....Yeah Buddy by Ronnie Coleman hit me like a freight train.

if you were never exposed to it then how can you say todays DMAA is weaker then the pre-ban DMAA?

You would have nothing to compare it to so your opinion is moot.

There are plenty of us who were exposed to it pre ban...and now...and I can assure you the "feeling" is not the same...not even close.

 

[Brandinooooo]

Which receptor? and which other common stimulant are you assuming would even cause a down regulation at that specific receptor?

Analogues:

N-Methyl-DMAA
1,3-dimethylbutylamine
1,4-dimethylamylamine (I'm not entirely sure if its an analogue of DMAA)

Target of DMAA is adrenergic receptors being a catecholamine reuptake inhibitor. I can post a study when I get home.

View attachment 143205????

lmfao

This is always interesting to me. Whenever a thread about a stim break pops up, it seems like various forum members are split 50/50 on whether this helps or not.

Yeah I know. I try not to get pulled into them.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I can't discredit your assessment...it's possible obviously....but this widespread? Everyone just got tolerant of DMAA after years of it being off the market? Again you make a valid argument, I just don't believe it. Knowing how shady this industry is I wouldn't doubt that whatever is being masqueraded as DMAA...isn't even DMAA at all like someone said. I still have a hard time believing that DMAA comes back, the dose is jacked up to 70mg in some products...and people aren't getting zooted. I still think something is very fishy.

The only pre that honestly has rocked me the past year or two was a non DMAA pre....Yeah Buddy by Ronnie Coleman hit me like a freight train.



There are plenty of us who were exposed to it pre ban...and now...and I can assure you the "feeling" is not the same...not even close.

Oh, I loved the old DMAA supplements. I remember taking them at the end of my class before lifting for HS football (I didn't take it for actual practice luckily), and I had absolute laser-like tunnel-vision focus. Granted, I was a pre-workout rookie, so it was baptism by fire, but I loved it. I think I used Napalm and PreSurge Unleashed, which both had DMAA at the time. As for today's DMAA not being like yesterday's DMAA, perhaps it's more likely that we were getting something not on the label back then than it is that we'e being lied to now. See my previous post (copied below with the comment it responded to):

Yes, you are EXACTLY right with your description. Part of my thought process went to 2 possibilities. 1- That was NOT dmaa back then, but similar to the Craze Phenethylamine derivative, amphetamine analog. 2- Is there an isomer of dmaa? I know they can have differing affects from isomers, etc. at the molecular level. But technically my guess is that DMAA is now multiple different compounds, similar aspect to AMP Citrate being (i believe 7?) different actual compounds. I have never had a workout like I did off original dmaa, and I took an 8 month break from stimulants, still with disappointing results, so the tolerance theory is out for me. Also, how can a brand new gym goer use high caffeine more effectively than 65mg dmaa? And back then, I dont remember DMAA working differently in everyone. We ALL had awesome experiences. So i am extremely skeptical that this new dmaa is really even bioavailable or dmaa at all.

If I had to buy into either of these theories, and I'm not saying I do, it would definitely be the first one you mentioned in the above post. With all of the companies that have gotten in trouble for spiking products (even amino spiking with protein), the rise of fully-disclosed labels (less prop blends today then back then), more educated consumers in general, and increased "interest" and threats of involvement/regulations/bans (and actual penalties for violations) by the government, it seems more likely that something was added to or removed from the label back then as opposed to now.

I still do think that DMAA packs a punch, haha.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Analogues:

N-Methyl-DMAA
1,3-dimethylbutylamine
1,4-dimethylamylamine (I'm not entirely sure if its an analogue of DMAA)

Target of DMAA is adrenergic receptors being a catecholamine reuptake inhibitor. I can post a study when I get home.





lmfao



Yeah I know. I try not to get pulled into them.

Okay so basically you are making reference to a whole class of compounds know as aliphatic amines which share the same (similar) MOA. However, DMAA is DMAA is DMAA. It is the same compound used today as used years ago in Jack3d.

 

[Brandinooooo]

Okay so basically you are making reference to a whole class of compounds know as aliphatic amines which share the same (similar) MOA. However, DMAA is DMAA is DMAA. It is the same compound used today as used years ago in Jack3d.

I said Its Possible.

Do you know what an analogue is?

 

[NoAddedHmones]

I said Its Possible.

Do you know what an analogue is?

Please enlighten me. Why would companies adulterate a supplement with an analogue and label it as DMAA

 

[Brandinooooo]

Please enlighten me. Why would companies adulterate a supplement with an analogue and label it as DMAA

Same reason companies are selling bunk products and products claiming to be other things. Money.

I'm not going to argue with you about this.

 

[shockrock3]

Oh, I loved the old DMAA supplements. I remember taking them at the end of my class before lifting for HS football (I didn't take it for actual practice luckily), and I had absolute laser-like tunnel-vision focus. Granted, I was a pre-workout rookie, so it was baptism by fire, but I loved it. I think I used Napalm and PreSurge Unleashed, which both had DMAA at the time. As for today's DMAA not being like yesterday's DMAA, perhaps it's more likely that we were getting something not on the label back then than it is that we'e being lied to now. See my previous post (copied below with the comment it responded to):


If I had to buy into either of these theories, and I'm not saying I do, it would definitely be the first one you mentioned in the above post. With all of the companies that have gotten in trouble for spiking products (even amino spiking with protein), the rise of fully-disclosed labels (less prop blends today then back then), more educated consumers in general, and increased "interest" and threats of involvement/regulations/bans (and actual penalties for violations) by the government, it seems more likely that something was added to or removed from the label back then as opposed to now.

I still do think that DMAA packs a punch, haha.

Valid point. "If" that's the case and every DMAA product was spiked back then....well...put that f'in ingredient back in because whatever is being paraded around as DMAA now, sux and sux bad.

 

[Brandinooooo]

Valid point. "If" that's the case and every DMAA product was spiked back then....well...put that f'in ingredient back in because whatever is being paraded around as DMAA now, sux and sux bad.

Agreed. Especially when its paired with Yohimbe. I can't stand it.

 

[WhiteRabbit]

if you were never exposed to it then how can you say todays DMAA is weaker then the pre-ban DMAA?

You would have nothing to compare it to so your opinion is moot.

Please dont be one of those who just make a single point and pretend it invalidates any other position on the topic. I was not even referring to myself. However I had taken 18 months off (only continuing with caffeine) due to an injury and there is no way it is the same compound as what I was using previously.


I think "DMAA" (whatever it really is) does not cause the same dopamine release or euphoric feeling as the compound used in the jack3d/ 1mr. My intention wasnt for argument, just to give some input that the "DMAA" in mesomorph may not be giving any of the actual kick to it, and there are many more options for preworkouts than just ones that include DMAA on the label. I tend to feel ANS Ritual more than Mesomorph for example. Point being, no one who actually knows what was used in those preworkouts has come out and said it, so this is all just speculation anyway.

 

[Ricky10]

Please dont be one of those who just make a single point and pretend it invalidates any other position on the topic. I was not even referring to myself. However I had taken 18 months off (only continuing with caffeine) due to an injury and there is no way it is the same compound as what I was using previously.


I think "DMAA" (whatever it really is) does not cause the same dopamine release or euphoric feeling as the compound used in the jack3d/ 1mr. My intention wasnt for argument, just to give some input that the "DMAA" in mesomorph may not be giving any of the actual kick to it, and there are many more options for preworkouts than just ones that include DMAA on the label. I tend to feel ANS Ritual more than Mesomorph for example. Point being, no one who actually knows what was used in those preworkouts has come out and said it, so this is all just speculation anyway.

You may have a point there. I feel nada from Mesomorph. Hi-tech HydroxyElite Pro...a replacement for OxyElite Pro..I think not. I tried another OxyElite knock off by another somewhat obscure brand and that just gave me a headache. I am over the DMAA supplements overall, however I am interested to try Super Pump 250..

 

[Brandinooooo]

You may have a point there. I feel nada from Mesomorph. Hi-tech HydroxyElite Pro...a replacement for OxyElite Pro..I think not. I tried another OxyElite knock off by another somewhat obscure brand and that just gave me a headache. I am over the DMAA supplements overall, however I am interested to try Super Pump 250..

HydroxyElite Pro is paired with Yohimbe. That's why it can give anxiety.

 

[AntM1564]

Analogues:

N-Methyl-DMAA
1,3-dimethylbutylamine
1,4-dimethylamylamine (I'm not entirely sure if its an analogue of DMAA)

Target of DMAA is adrenergic receptors being a catecholamine reuptake inhibitor. I can post a study when I get home.





lmfao



Yeah I know. I try not to get pulled into them.

Can I ask you on your opinion of this? You can PM me to not hijack.

 

[Darkhorse192]

weren't they being spiked with amphetamine salts or something like that a la OG Craze

 

[Ricky10]

weren't they being spiked with amphetamine salts or something like that a la OG Craze

Can you be more specific when you say they?

 

[The_Old_Guy]

This is always interesting to me. Whenever a thread about a stim break pops up, it seems like various forum members are split 50/50 on whether this helps or not.

I guess "help" would have to be defined? I'm not so up on performance/contractile force, etc.. due to long term stimulant use, but there is 100% scientifically proven data showing tolerance, ie. takes more to feel the same effect the older, lesser dose gave. And this depends on the substance - you can take Ephedrine for a really looooooooooooooooong time, yet Clenbuterol definitely needs to be stopped within weeks because it "fits" the receptor perfectly, where Ephedrine does not. Caffeine fits it's receptor pretty well too. Taking this to a non-supplement level - if you've ever used Tobacco, you know you will NEVER AGAIN get the same "feel" from a Dip/Cigarette, as you did the very first time you tried them. Receptor tolerance.

 

[Darkhorse192]

Valid point. "If" that's the case and every DMAA product was spiked back then....well...put that f'in ingredient back in because whatever is being paraded around as DMAA now, sux and sux bad.

Can you be more specific when you say they?

was referring to the post above where he said "every DMAA product was spiked back then", and it was also mentioned in the new product release thread where I had said I remember the feeling of OG Dark Rage and OG 1MR and nothing, not even the new DMAA, being as good or better, and the same comment was made that all original DMAA pres were either "spiked" or contained much higher doses of DMAA than was stated.

 

[shockrock3]

You may have a point there. I feel nada from Mesomorph. Hi-tech HydroxyElite Pro...a replacement for OxyElite Pro..I think not. I tried another OxyElite knock off by another somewhat obscure brand and that just gave me a headache. I am over the DMAA supplements overall, however I am interested to try Super Pump 250..

Well...someone send Wicked/Meso/Dust Xtreme/SP250 off to be tested just for 1,3 content ? My guess is the results won't come back the way we are hoping.

 

[Brandinooooo]

The closest thing I've tried that was close to the OG jack3d is half a scoop meso and half kraken. So 1,3 and 1,4 DMAA. Still lacking the oomph but not quite the euphoria. Dmha feels pretty good by itself but isn't as stimulating.

 

[Brandinooooo]

Well...someone send Wicked/Meso/Dust Xtreme/SP250 off to be tested just for 1,3 content ? My guess is the results won't come back the way we are hoping.

I do have an old tub of jack3d original that I would be willing to have tested lol.

 

[Darkhorse192]

DMAA is a funny one, back in the day it use to razz me up bigtime, seems we build a permanent tolerance to it because since it has been brought back to the market, I have been very underwhelmed. the AMP-HCL is amazing for energy.

The crop/batch of DMAA nowadays is sh*t compared to back in the day. A lot of funny stuff is going on concerning the potency of DMAA, people aren't stupid...whatever crap DMAA they are putting in today's formulas sux. Something is up.....

mesomorph back in the day with the bright pink powder and medicine taste would actually make my heart a subwoofer, it was insane stuff. New stuff literally spaced me out and basically nada energy wise.

Haha so its definitely a decrease in quality.

nothing to do with over-exposure to stims or the large quantity of stims available now as opposed to say 6 years back?

What if someone gave you some DMAA from back then and it had a reduced effect on you? would you then say its started to break down due to shelf life or accept that your body no longer responds the same way it did back then? (fwiw i still have heaps of DMAA caps from back then and feels the same as a new tub of meso)

Always preferred AMP C over DMAA... Ampitropin was amazing to mix with a pre. Yet to try DMHA so can't comment on him, hopefully have some on the way though.

hell yeah, I remember the original (true original) of Dark Rage (MHP) and 1MR were nuts. I remember thinking someone was going to have to put “two to the chest and one to the head” to put me down on this stuff. Very little has created a similar feeling or come close, maybe original Ultimate Orange in high school though im not sure that was DMAA.

Def. a decrease in quality. Myself, I don't over abuse DMAA. Back in the day people were getting lit off 25mg...yeah you had to bump up the scoops after awhile but you still got zoned. Now, you're looking at 50-75mg a scoop for alot of DMAA pre's and reading people take 1.5-2 scoops and being "mildly" stimulated? I'm not buying it.
The only one that's felt like OG DMAA was Meso...but I haven't had a tub of it since Tuitty Fruitty came out.
I'm just not buying the theory that the extracts nowadays match the potency of the GOOD years.

All these OG pre were spiked imo lol

Ricky10 was referring to these snippets from a similar convo in the new product release thread about DMAA and its perceived effectiveness

posts #10450 in that thread fyi

 

[WhiteRabbit]

You may have a point there. I feel nada from Mesomorph. Hi-tech HydroxyElite Pro...a replacement for OxyElite Pro..I think not. I tried another OxyElite knock off by another somewhat obscure brand and that just gave me a headache. I am over the DMAA supplements overall, however I am interested to try Super Pump 250..

Id wait for the Super Pump 250, the bottles all have the DMAA mixed to the bottom of the bottle. I wont be carrying it again, multiple people said dosing is ALL over the place, and again, like Wicked, The silicate in it had someone waiting TWO HOURS before it kicked in! Just be careful, you dont want to over do it with other ingredients at high quantities, and if the mixture is not homogenous, then neither is any other ingredient. Actually if you want to try one let me know and I can give you a good deal on one, lol.

 

[Ricky10]

Id wait for the Super Pump 250, the bottles all have the DMAA mixed to the bottom of the bottle. I wont be carrying it again, multiple people said dosing is ALL over the place, and again, like Wicked, The silicate in it had someone waiting TWO HOURS before it kicked in! Just be careful, you dont want to over do it with other ingredients at high quantities, and if the mixture is not homogenous, then neither is any other ingredient. Actually if you want to try one let me know and I can give you a good deal on one, lol.

Nice to know...thanks! That sounds ridiculous..were they drunk during the manufacturing/quality control process?

 

[schizm]

I've been using superpump250 for about a week now, love it...maybe even moreso than (gasp) mesomorph.

 

[R1balla]

I've been using superpump250 for about a week now, love it...maybe even moreso than (gasp) mesomorph.

I used to use 250 back in the day. Good stuff back then.

 

[shockrock3]

Id wait for the Super Pump 250, the bottles all have the DMAA mixed to the bottom of the bottle. I wont be carrying it again, multiple people said dosing is ALL over the place, and again, like Wicked, The silicate in it had someone waiting TWO HOURS before it kicked in! Just be careful, you dont want to over do it with other ingredients at high quantities, and if the mixture is not homogenous, then neither is any other ingredient. Actually if you want to try one let me know and I can give you a good deal on one, lol.

Honestly...I see this industry moving towards these underdosed "Gamer" formulas i.e. noot formulas. Everything out in this niche is badly underdosed except Matt's Clear Edge which I'm going to grab.
Everyone is going to start producing underdosed or underdosed prop blended Gamer formulas. If the first wave is indicitive of what we'll see going forward there isn't much to be hopeful for.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Honestly...I see this industry moving towards these underdosed "Gamer" formulas i.e. noot formulas. Everything out in this niche is badly underdosed except Matt's Clear Edge which I'm going to grab.
Everyone is going to start producing underdosed or underdosed prop blended Gamer formulas. If the first wave is indicitive of what we'll see going forward there isn't much to be hopeful for.

There are a few good, properly dosed nootropic formulas out now, although they're not all labeled/marketed primarily as "gamer" supplements, and I know of at least 1 more that will be dosed well.

 

[cubsfan815]

There are a few good, properly dosed nootropic formulas out now, although they're not all labeled/marketed primarily as "gamer" supplements, and I know of at least 1 more that will be dosed well.

This^^^

I have only seen one actually labeled for gamers, unless I have missed others. I never used many nootropics, however the older I get the less into stims I get. Taking a well dosed noot product on stressful days at work has actually opened up a new world of supplementing for me. That mental edge of seeing my next step before I take it is great.

As far as gaming, I think I'd try the CL product or more NootropiMax when it releases, for my PSVR. VR is exciting and a well dosed nootropic would probably intensify it.

 

[shockrock3]

This^^^

I have only seen one actually labeled for gamers, unless I have missed others. I never used many nootropics, however the older I get the less into stims I get. Taking a well dosed noot product on stressful days at work has actually opened up a new world of supplementing for me. That mental edge of seeing my next step before I take it is great.


As far as gaming, I think I'd try the CL product or more NootropiMax when it releases, for my PSVR. VR is exciting and a well dosed nootropic would probably intensify it.

C&P Aggro, ANS Rave, BPI XP, etc. etc.....ANS "supposedly" has a special Lion's Mane extract, the clinical dose is 3g of extract...they are using 50mg. I mean that's just one example. If you're going to do a gamer/nooot formula, do it right.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

C&P Aggro, ANS Rave, BPI XP, etc. etc.....ANS "supposedly" has a special Lion's Mane extract, the clinical dose is 3g of extract...they are using 50mg. I mean that's just one example. If you're going to do a gamer/nooot formula, do it right.

Elixir is good, Focus XT is good, Noowave High Performer is good (although it has too much theanine IMO), and NootropiMax will be very good as well, keep an eye out for it. There are good options out there.

 

[WhiteRabbit]

Honestly...I see this industry moving towards these underdosed "Gamer" formulas i.e. noot formulas. Everything out in this niche is badly underdosed except Matt's Clear Edge which I'm going to grab.
Everyone is going to start producing underdosed or underdosed prop blended Gamer formulas. If the first wave is indicitive of what we'll see going forward there isn't much to be hopeful for.

I said this about 4 years ago, and agree with you 100%... Nootropics are going to be the industry's new direction. Unfortunately most of the ones used, (noopept, phenylpiracetam, chaos and pains 2 products with aniracetam, oxiracetam-which are a mess and dont work, choline, carnitine, etc.) are all very "light". IMO, you have to really try for a placebo effect. However, with nootropics being so new to everywhere, not just supplements, but to everyone in general, I think it makes for a pretty interesting twist to an industry that has basically been going backwards for the past couple years. Olympus Labs used Galantamine which is a prescription AChE Inhibitor, but atleast it does something. But they had said that may be changed shortly too, so who knows.

Plus, real nootropics tend to be pretty expensive, and a lot of them are either subq, sublingual or even intranasal. I doubt SubQ shots will be coming from supplement companies any time soon.

 

[Ricky10]

Honestly...I see this industry moving towards these underdosed "Gamer" formulas i.e. noot formulas. Everything out in this niche is badly underdosed except Matt's Clear Edge which I'm going to grab.
Everyone is going to start producing underdosed or underdosed prop blended Gamer formulas. If the first wave is indicitive eof what we'll see going forward there isn't much to be hopeful for.

I actually think PWOs have gone the opposite direction in recent years. Much more focus on patented clinically dosed ingredients for blood flow, pump, recovery. Many formulas are in the 20g range per serving size compared to a few years ago when most were around 8g. As far as nootropics go, I say bring me on! Much better feel to it than a mega dose of caffeine and that hideous Yohimbe crap. Many formulas are coming out that offer no artificial flavors, sweeteners, dyes etc.. for people that are into that as well. Having said all that...I still miss the original Craze...haha!

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I said this about 4 years ago, and agree with you 100%... Nootropics are going to be the industry's new direction. Unfortunately most of the ones used, (noopept, phenylpiracetam, chaos and pains 2 products with aniracetam, oxiracetam-which are a mess and dont work, choline, carnitine, etc.) are all very "light". IMO, you have to really try for a placebo effect. However, with nootropics being so new to everywhere, not just supplements, but to everyone in general, I think it makes for a pretty interesting twist to an industry that has basically been going backwards for the past couple years. Olympus Labs used Galantamine which is a prescription AChE Inhibitor, but atleast it does something. But they had said that may be changed shortly too, so who knows.

Plus, real nootropics tend to be pretty expensive, and a lot of them are either subq, sublingual or even intranasal. I doubt SubQ shots will be coming from supplement companies any time soon.

Properly dosed choline (CDP or GPC) + huperzine-A/galantamine) + racetam/noopept is actually a pretty nice basic stack, especially paired with some caffeine and maybe an adaptogen or two. There are plenty of effective oral nootropics out there, you just don't see them dosed well together in very many products. It's not often you see effective ingredients AND doses, but when you do, it's great.

 

[mattikus]

Any word on ingredient profile or projected release date on Performax's product? Been six months of hype now, let's go lol