NTBM phytoserm

[oufinny]

With that guarantee I am surely going to get HCG or Phyto for my PCT without a doubt. I know with HCG I will be totally happy since I repsond well to the ingredients and the samples, as for Phyto, I really really really want this to work for me!!!!! Here's to hoping.

 

[thebigt]

With that guarantee I am surely going to get HCG or Phyto for my PCT without a doubt. I know with HCG I will be totally happy since I repsond well to the ingredients and the samples, as for Phyto, I really really really want this to work for me!!!!! Here's to hoping.

yup-not completely sold on pytoserm, but hcgenerate is on my after christmas list.

 

[Rahl]

yup-not completely sold on pytoserm, but hcgenerate is on my after christmas list.

Honestly, that is my favorite supp. It's on my everyday list.

 

[thebigt]

Honestly, that is my favorite supp. It's on my everyday list.

i have heard that too many times, from too many people to ignore it. i will definately be getting some after i spoil my family with christmas gifts.:chairfall:

 

[DreamWeaver]

I'm on day 7 of my PCT and I am already experiencing involuntary wood (remember I'm 52) I am however using a lot of products as this is PCT and I would never put my eggs in one basket loll ... I am hopefull of a good recovery though...

 

[james122]

I'm on day 7 of my PCT and I am already experiencing involuntary wood (remember I'm 52) I am however using a lot of products as this is PCT and I would never put my eggs in one basket loll ... I am hopefull of a good recovery though...

lol at the "eggs" reference

 

[thebigt]

I'm on day 7 of my PCT and I am already experiencing involuntary wood (remember I'm 52) I am however using a lot of products as this is PCT and I would never put my eggs in one basket loll ... I am hopefull of a good recovery though...

phytoserm or hcghenerate, dw?

 

[delsolrob]

subbed for 50's second set of blood work!

Great discussions in here guys!

 

[Mr.50]

I know the name (Phytoserm) seems to indicate the mechanism of action of Bulbine is as a SERM but has anyone actually proven the mechanism of action to be a SERM effect.....and if that is the case should an AI be run in a reverse at the cessation of use of Phytoserm to make sure to ward off any estrogen rebound effects?

Mr.50

 

[DreamWeaver]

phytoserm or hcghenerate, dw?

Phyto but I am taking testopro and SA as well oh and low dose Tor... :sgrin:

 

[broons]

i have heard that too many times, from too many people to ignore it. i will definately be getting some after i spoil my family with christmas gifts.:chairfall:

That is originally what I was going to get but it's always out of stock whenever i look! So I went with the phytoserms to give it a test run.

I may actually pull the trigger on another bottle of phyto just to give it a full 8 weeks cycle to completely gauge my response to it. Whether I do or not, in part, depends on what Mr 50's bloodwork looks like.

I know it's doing something cuz the last couple days my nuts have been pretty swole lol. Haven't seen any strength gains or better recovery yet, but I've been feeling pretty good during my workouts like just wanting to kill it. Aggression is getting pretty elevated, almost too much outside of working out lol. Only other thing I've noticed the last 2 days is that twice now I have noticed a small amount of "leakage" from the tip of my boy parts.

 

[Mr.50]

Well guys the bloodwork is back.... its improvement but nothing very impressive


TEST TOTAL: 11/23 = 419ng/dL 12/8 = 490 ng/dL

Free Test: 11/23 = 10.6 pg/ML 12/8 = 12.3 pg/ML


So I realize it is only 2 weeks (wish I could have waited longer but for personal reasons I needed to do the blood work now) and there is a trend towards improvement but the magnitude of improvement is not that impressive. There is the possibility that I may have the blood work repeated again in another few weeks. I will keep taking the Phyto and if I have the blood work done again I will post....no promises on the blood work though (paying out of pocket so the cost can be prohibitive).

Mr.50

 

[thebigt]

Well guys the bloodwork is back.... its improvement but nothing very impressive


TEST TOTAL: 11/23 = 419ng/dL 12/8 = 490 ng/dL

Free Test: 11/23 = 10.6 pg/ML 12/8 = 12.3 pg/ML


So I realize it is only 2 weeks (wish I could have waited longer but for personal reasons I needed to do the blood work now) and there is a trend towards improvement but the magnitude of improvement is not that impressive. There is the possibility that I may have the blood work repeated again in another few weeks. I will keep taking the Phyto and if I have the blood work done again I will post....no promises on the blood work though (paying out of pocket so the cost can be prohibitive).

Mr.50

did you have estrogen/prolactin checked?

 

[broons]

So unless I completely suck at math, looks like about a 15% increase after 2 weeks?

 

[Mr.50]

did you have estrogen/prolactin checked?

The when the script was ordered originally to include Estrodiol, someone f'ed up and forgot to do the estrodiol.

So I didnt have it repeated on this run either (since there was no baseline). Also if this works as a SERM it may give a falze positive for elevated Estrodiol .....of course no one has bothered to address my question above as to the mechanism of action of bulbine? (I have asked here and over in IForce's thread and no one seems to want to respond to it).

My Prolactin levels are slightly elevated (both on the original test and on this one 22 and 24 respectively) but I would urge you not to read too far into that since I am on an SSRI and all SSRI's have the potential to raise prolactin. I have some prescription grade Cabergoline (liquid research chems for Cab are junk) on the way to attempt to counteract the prolactin increase form the SSRI.

Mr.50

 

[Mr.50]

So unless I completely suck at math, looks like about a 15% increase after 2 weeks?

Yup.....its something but not clear if there is a clinical significance....please remember that testosterone levels can vary a great deal throughout the day.

Mr.50

 

[thebigt]

The when the script was ordered originally to include Estrodiol, someone f'ed up and forgot to do the estrodiol.

So I didnt have it repeated on this run either (since there was no baseline). Also if this works as a SERM it may give a falze positive for elevated Estrodiol .....of course no one has bothered to address my question above as to the mechanism of action of bulbine? (I have asked here and over in IForce's thread and no one seems to want to respond to it).

My Prolactin levels are slightly elevated (both on the original test and on this one 22 and 24 respectively) but I would urge you not to read too far into that since I am on an SSRI and all SSRI's have the potential to raise prolactin. I have some prescription grade Cabergoline (liquid research chems for Cab are junk) on the way to attempt to counteract the prolactin increase form the SSRI.

Mr.50

GOOD POST-i hope your results continue to improve!

 

[Mr.50]

GOOD POST-i hope your results continue to improve!

Thanks bro.

Mr.50

 

[james122]

GOOD POST-i hope your results continue to improve!

x 2

 

[SouthernCharm]

Ive been waiting to see this bloodwork. For two weeks in, it may not be remarkable, but you yourself stated a very overlooked truth. Lot of things affect test levels throughout the day. If you have the funds for it, I would like to see the bloodwork in a few weeks. Are you running one bottle or two?

Ive been following along with this thread, but have really been waiting to say something when mr 50 got his bloodwork. Anyone can claim they're getting a libido boost from a product, but at least he got some bloods done. A libido boost could be anything. Your dopamine levels could be up, your wife could have worn something sexy or cooked your favorite meal. Hell it could just be your day.

I also believe that 4 weeks is a short run, on any test booster. Every test booster I have ever tried I have purchased two bottles and run it for 8 weeks. Some kicked in "sooner" then others, while some had me tearing everything up at the gym towards the end. I'm not gonna mention products, because I didn't get bloodwork to compare the results, so saying one worked more than another would be going off of pure speculation. I am glad to see that you did finally notice the effects.

In my honest opinion I think that the amount of PMs I get on a regular basis on advice about stacks, how to incorporate products into a routine, and so forth, that our products speak for themselves and we have had many satisfied loggers, customers, with a few exceptions. Yeah, we're the new guys in town and some of the reps came off a bit strong when our sponsorship started but lets be realistic everybody. It would be borderline insane to invest so much money into a company and supplement formulation, the marketing and everything else just to throw out sugar pills. We want to be a house hold name. We want to help with goals. You have guarantees that state your money is not lost if you're not satisfied with something.

 

[Mr.50]

Ive been waiting to see this bloodwork. For two weeks in, it may not be remarkable, but you yourself stated a very overlooked truth. Lot of things affect test levels throughout the day. If you have the funds for it, I would like to see the bloodwork in a few weeks. Are you running one bottle or two?

Ive been following along with this thread, but have really been waiting to say something when mr 50 got his bloodwork. Anyone can claim they're getting a libido boost from a product, but at least he got some bloods done. A libido boost could be anything. Your dopamine levels could be up, your wife could have worn something sexy or cooked your favorite meal. Hell it could just be your day.

I also believe that 4 weeks is a short run, on any test booster. Every test booster I have ever tried I have purchased two bottles and run it for 8 weeks. Some kicked in "sooner" then others, while some had me tearing everything up at the gym towards the end. I'm not gonna mention products, because I didn't get bloodwork to compare the results, so saying one worked more than another would be going off of pure speculation. I am glad to see that you did finally notice the effects.

In my honest opinion I think that the amount of PMs I get on a regular basis on advice about stacks, how to incorporate products into a routine, and so forth, that our products speak for themselves and we have had many satisfied loggers, customers, with a few exceptions. Yeah, we're the new guys in town and some of the reps came off a bit strong when our sponsorship started but lets be realistic everybody. It would be borderline insane to invest so much money into a company and supplement formulation, the marketing and everything else just to throw out sugar pills. We want to be a house hold name. We want to help with goals. You have guarantees that state your money is not lost if you're not satisfied with something.

I agree with the above post. I would have liked to see a greater increase (of course, who wouldnt) but overall it is still an increase and money willing I will get the blood work repeated again in another few weeks. I will probably just run this one bottle so maybe on the last day of this bottle.

Many factors could effect the subjective (feeling results) and even the objective (blood work results). All I can say for certain is the blood work posted here.

Mr.50

 

[SouthernCharm]

Do you get your bloodwork done by your physician? I dont know how much you're paying but privatemdlabs is 50$ for test, est, lh, and fsh, and im sure you can add free test to it for cheap

 

[bdcc]

I agree with running T boosters for a longer period to assess results.

It seems a very defensive post from SouthernCharm? Nobody is slagging off the product- it is still very early days!

Admittedly the 347% rise which has been advertised and used as the marketing angle seems very unlikely in the only person who had test levels within the normal range (so far).

 

[Mr.50]

Do you get your bloodwork done by your physician? I dont know how much you're paying but privatemdlabs is 50$ for test, est, lh, and fsh, and im sure you can add free test to it for cheap

That is cheaper. I will check them out and see if they have a draw site around here. If they do, for that price I will def get it done again.

Mr.50

 

[SouthernCharm]

I agree with running T boosters for a longer period to assess results.

It seems a very defensive post from SouthernCharm? Nobody is slagging off the product- it is still very early days!

Admittedly the 347% rise which has been advertised and used as the marketing angle seems very unlikely in the only person who had test levels within the normal range (so far).

No just offering my two cents if anyone cares to take it lol..

Sorry if it came off defensive, just been reading this thread this whole time and havent really said much. And that was about the sum of it all

 

[SouthernCharm]

That is cheaper. I will check them out and see if they have a draw site around here. If they do, for that price I will def get it done again.

Mr.50

Any labcorp. www.privatemdlabs.com

Choose the female panel. Then fill your info out, and when you go get drawn, they'll automatically switch you to a male panel (unless you look like Ru Paul :lol and your results will be emailed to you within 48 hours.

 

[bdcc]

If I am being honest it is a hard job for reps. Product claims often overhype the product and you get the grief from people when they don't deliver.

If a test booster was as successful as advertised "ripped muscle", "6-9lbs in a month", "roadmap vascularity" there wouldn't be people constantly offering their opinion on which is the new and most effective supplement to hit the market. Everyone would just stick with the one that does as it says.

 

[Mr.50]

Any labcorp. www.privatemdlabs.com

Choose the female panel. Then fill your info out, and when you go get drawn, they'll automatically switch you to a male panel (unless you look like Ru Paul :lol and your results will be emailed to you within 48 hours.

Yeah is the female panel cheaper? Cause the male panels and the individual tests are not as cheap as you referenced (still cheaper then directlabs but maybe the prices went up). LabCorp I can do.

Also there is the possibility that a doctor's appointment I have next week might allow me to con the doc into ordering them and then insurance can pay! LOL

 

[SouthernCharm]

If I am being honest it is a hard job for reps. Product claims often overhype the product and you get the grief from people when they don't deliver.

If a test booster was as successful as advertised "ripped muscle", "6-9lbs in a month", "roadmap vascularity" there wouldn't be people constantly offering their opinion on which is the new and most effective supplement to hit the market. Everyone would just stick with the one that does as it says.

Thats true my friend. First and foremost, it's an honor being a rep, although it has it's challenges..

As for the products... This is a supplement industry. Compare it to just about any other industry. There IS no end all be all.. Not in cars, not in clothes, not in bedding, furniture, building supplies, etc. Products work but many factors go into play. And everything has to be marketed. That's just the way it is. But at the end of the day I know I share something in common with the man who was generous enough to offer me this position.. Knowing that I've helped someone get closer to their goal. That's what its all about. Take away all the advertising, the sales, the fancy packaging that industry products get and in the end it's the consumer choosing what works for THEM and what helps them achieve their goals. Supplements are the icing on the cake in bodybuilding, not the foundation. That is my view on it any way.

 

[bdcc]

If this consistently provides increases near to 347% this would be the be all and end all herbal test booster.

Ingredient wise anyway, obviously different companies will come out with different formulations.

 

[SouthernCharm]

Yeah is the female panel cheaper? Cause the male panels and the individual tests are not as cheap as you referenced (still cheaper then directlabs but maybe the prices went up). LabCorp I can do.

Also there is the possibility that a doctor's appointment I have next week might allow me to con the doc into ordering them and then insurance can pay! LOL

The only thing I wouldn't like about having my insurance pay for my bloodwork, is that everything gets put on your medical record. I plan to get tested before and after every cycle, and so if I went in for testing every time, then I'm sure it would raise some questions. Wouldn't want that unless I had to go on TRT..

Here's the link to cheap bloodwork...

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/157529-cheap-bloodwork-how.html

 

[Mr.50]

The only thing I wouldn't like about having my insurance pay for my bloodwork, is that everything gets put on your medical record. I plan to get tested before and after every cycle, and so if I went in for testing every time, then I'm sure it would raise some questions. Wouldn't want that unless I had to go on TRT..

Here's the link to cheap bloodwork...


http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/157529-cheap-bloodwork-how.html

Thanks bro!

Mr.50

 

[Rahl]

I'll be using that lab deal in the next weak to get my baseline before my next cycle. Google for discount codes too. They're up to 15% all the time.

 

[SouthernCharm]

I'll be using that lab deal in the next weak to get my baseline before my next cycle. Google for discount codes too. They're up to 15% all the time.

If you actually sign up at their website they send you the updated discount codes. No need for google in that matter lol

 

[thebigt]

If you actually sign up at their website they send you the updated discount codes. No need for google in that matter lol

good info sc!

 

[broons]

I'm glad this thread has sparked so much interest and great discussion and points being made.

Based solely off my experience with it so far, I do feel that this supplement is effective, but not really any more effective than cheaper alternatives. YMMV obviously. My run with it is not finished yet so that could, and I hope will, change. I can carry around a piece of paper with me saying my test went up over 9000, but at the end of the day, its the gains I've made that really matter.

 

[more knowledge]

Is it possible the results are not as dynamic as expected because there are too many mgs of BN per serving?Sorry if that has been discussed i didn't read all five pages.I know the testosterone production graph is an unusuall upsidedown "u" where once the graph peaks with the optimal amount of mgs there is diminishing production with a continual increase in mgs.How many mgs of BN are being used?has that been disclosed?

 

[thenightmare2]

I just started my run today! I will be brining my log over from NTBM to here soon!

 

[broons]

Is it possible the results are not as dynamic as expected because there are too many mgs of BN per serving?Sorry if that has been discussed i didn't read all five pages.I know the testosterone production graph is an unusuall upsidedown "u" where once the graph peaks with the optimal amount of mgs there is diminishing production with a continual increase in mgs.How many mgs of BN are being used?has that been disclosed?

Yes I have read that too as far as diminishing returns with too high of a dose. I trust that NTBM has the dose correct for maximum impact which is why I wont take more than the recommended dose.

I think its still unclear as far as the dynamic results. Mr 50 and I started at pretty much the same time and hasn't even been thirty days yet. I'm going to run another bottle just to get a full 8 weeks and make my judgment based on that. I think it is effective, takes quite awhile to kick in though for me anyways. Its the priceerformance ratio I'm still uncertain about with all the cheaper alternatives available that have very good consumer response.

 

[Mr.50]

Hey guys another interesting point..... I had other blood work done at the same time as the test levels....one of the other parameters was slightly out of wack also and I thought it was unrelated so I did not mention it here.....I just read something over in the I-Force thread on the bulbine product that was interesting though.....


On my second set of blood work (after using Phytoserms for 2 weeks) my Neutrophils were low. The bottom of the normal range was 1.8 and mine were 1.6. Now it does not appear that this decrease is something for me to be concerned with (especially if it is related to the Bulbine) but it is interesting that some of the studies have shown a decrease in immune cells (including neutrophils) and then after 2 weeks of using a bulbine product that is what my blood results show.

As I said, this is not related to the testosterone results but...


Mr.50

 

[DreamWeaver]

Yes I have read that too as far as diminishing returns with too high of a dose. I trust that NTBM has the dose correct for maximum impact which is why I wont take more than the recommended dose.

I think its still unclear as far as the dynamic results. Mr 50 and I started at pretty much the same time and hasn't even been thirty days yet. I'm going to run another bottle just to get a full 8 weeks and make my judgment based on that. I think it is effective, takes quite awhile to kick in though for me anyways. Its the priceerformance ratio I'm still uncertain about with all the cheaper alternatives available that have very good consumer response.

That's a fair assesment. What I have done is stack it wirh Testopro, cuz Testopro kicks in very fast (within a few days for me now). Since this takes time to kick in I recommend something like Testopro. I know you guys have HCGenerate but I read somewhere that takes time to kick in as well. Anywho 10 days into PCT and I am almost fully recovered and have the libido of a teenager.... this PCT is really starting to rock!!!

 

[BrockR]

Any labcorp. www.privatemdlabs.com

Choose the female panel. Then fill your info out, and when you go get drawn, they'll automatically switch you to a male panel (unless you look like Ru Paul :lol and your results will be emailed to you within 48 hours.

I've used privatemdlabs before, but I didn't know they would switch you to the male panel if you purchased the female. You sure about that?

It would be great if they did!

 

[broons]

Hey guys another interesting point..... I had other blood work done at the same time as the test levels....one of the other parameters was slightly out of wack also and I thought it was unrelated so I did not mention it here.....I just read something over in the I-Force thread on the bulbine product that was interesting though.....


On my second set of blood work (after using Phytoserms for 2 weeks) my Neutrophils were low. The bottom of the normal range was 1.8 and mine were 1.6. Now it does not appear that this decrease is something for me to be concerned with (especially if it is related to the Bulbine) but it is interesting that some of the studies have shown a decrease in immune cells (including neutrophils) and then after 2 weeks of using a bulbine product that is what my blood results show.

As I said, this is not related to the testosterone results but...


Mr.50

That is very interesting, and something to consider. Are you still taking the Phytoserms Mr 50?

 

[Mr.50]

That is very interesting, and something to consider. Are you still taking the Phytoserms Mr 50?

Yes sir!

 

[needtogetmuscle]

Hey guys another interesting point..... I had other blood work done at the same time as the test levels....one of the other parameters was slightly out of wack also and I thought it was unrelated so I did not mention it here.....I just read something over in the I-Force thread on the bulbine product that was interesting though.....


On my second set of blood work (after using Phytoserms for 2 weeks) my Neutrophils were low. The bottom of the normal range was 1.8 and mine were 1.6. Now it does not appear that this decrease is something for me to be concerned with (especially if it is related to the Bulbine) but it is interesting that some of the studies have shown a decrease in immune cells (including neutrophils) and then after 2 weeks of using a bulbine product that is what my blood results show.

As I said, this is not related to the testosterone results but...


Mr.50

Of course this is going to happen my friend. Estrogen has a positive effect on the immune system and if the product is doing its job then it is lowering estrogen. :fest30:

 

[VaughnTrue]

Of course this is going to happen my friend. Estrogen has a positive effect on the immune system and if the product is doing its job then it is lowering estrogen. :fest30:

agreed

 

[needtogetmuscle]

That's a fair assesment. What I have done is stack it wirh Testopro, cuz Testopro kicks in very fast (within a few days for me now). Since this takes time to kick in I recommend something like Testopro. I know you guys have HCGenerate but I read somewhere that takes time to kick in as well. Anywho 10 days into PCT and I am almost fully recovered and have the libido of a teenager.... this PCT is really starting to rock!!!

hcgenerate takes almost no time to kick in. If you are talking about the sex drive aspect from it anyway.. This is often felt in the first 2-3 days max.

 

[needtogetmuscle]

Phyto but I am taking testopro and SA as well oh and low dose Tor... :sgrin:

Great little combo right there bro

 

[needtogetmuscle]

The when the script was ordered originally to include Estrodiol, someone f'ed up and forgot to do the estrodiol.

So I didnt have it repeated on this run either (since there was no baseline). Also if this works as a SERM it may give a falze positive for elevated Estrodiol .....of course no one has bothered to address my question above as to the mechanism of action of bulbine? (I have asked here and over in IForce's thread and no one seems to want to respond to it).

My Prolactin levels are slightly elevated (both on the original test and on this one 22 and 24 respectively) but I would urge you not to read too far into that since I am on an SSRI and all SSRI's have the potential to raise prolactin. I have some prescription grade Cabergoline (liquid research chems for Cab are junk) on the way to attempt to counteract the prolactin increase form the SSRI.

Mr.50

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/bodybuilding-supplements/bulbine-natalensis-faq-frequently-asked-questions-phytoserm-347-a-727955.html
prob find some interesting things in this thread bro.

As for its mechanism of action Nothing has been confirmed as to weather it is Ai or serm like. But taking into consideration your findings ( through your own testing) that phytoserm-347 lowered your neutrophils. Then its actions might be closer to Tamoxifen based off the fact that through testing it has been shown to do the same http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15696052

But again nothing has been set in stone ether way.

 

[needtogetmuscle]

Is it possible the results are not as dynamic as expected because there are too many mgs of BN per serving?Sorry if that has been discussed i didn't read all five pages.I know the testosterone production graph is an unusuall upsidedown "u" where once the graph peaks with the optimal amount of mgs there is diminishing production with a continual increase in mgs.How many mgs of BN are being used?has that been disclosed?

No my friend as we have worked closely with the people who first discovered the compound since day one!!! Hence why Rlssupplements was the first to come out with the product my friend. In fact I spoke to the people who have been at the ground level of the this new herb just the other day. Through speaking with them about things it is more likely that he is not taking enough then it is that he is taking to much..

1 cap twice a day for people weighting 201 or less and 1 cap 3 times a day for people weighting over this is what I was told to put out to the public from the main people behind the bulbine prolinsis herb.