NTBM phytoserm

[Mr.50]

That is quite interesting you are noticing no effects still outside of the general libido boost. Maybe you don't respond to bulbine... I get nothing from any tribulus product but I do from many other test boosting ingredients (even though trib technically does not boost test).

Its possible...... I will say that I have never tried any compound, hormonal or non, that I have not had any effects from (some effects are good and some bad).....but its possible I guess.

Mr.50

 

[thebigt]

Its possible...... I will say that I have never tried any compound, hormonal or non, that I have not had any effects from (some effects are good and some bad).....but its possible I guess.

Mr.50

keep us updated

 

[antknee]

Its possible...... I will say that I have never tried any compound, hormonal or non, that I have not had any effects from (some effects are good and some bad).....but its possible I guess.

Mr.50

Well, you never know- Hcgen had zero effect on me that I could FEEL...and everyone and their mother swears by the stuff...hopefully its just taking this stuff a while to kick in on you, never the less, I'm glad I waited to pull the trigger on this one.

 

[Outstanding]

Well, you never know- Hcgen had zero effect on me that I could FEEL...and everyone and their mother swears by the stuff...hopefully its just taking this stuff a while to kick in on you, never the less, I'm glad I waited to pull the trigger on this one.

It took 6 weeks until HCGenerate truly created a shift in my sexual behavior dynamic enough it could NOT be ignored or denied. It works... my goodness does it work (stares off wistfully into the distance).

 

[antknee]

Lol, derma and a T booster always kicks in like that for me in 3 days..and right now I'm on day 6 and loving it..

 

[Mr.50]

Yeah guys.... please dont misunderstand me I am not knocking anything here.... the blood work will speak for itself and my subjective feeling could be on the money or it could be off for any number of reasons.

Mr.50

 

[mw1]

True we could both be non responders.

Are you 2 guys the only ones logging this?

 

[Mr.50]

Are you 2 guys the only ones logging this?

I think there are others.... and I really had no intention of logging it.... I just ordered a bottle to try it sometime and then I had some blood work scheduled and the bottle came in the day before..... so I took the blood work in the morning and then took my first dosage....then when I came home that day I saw Broons had started this thread and I sort of unintentionally hijacked it a bit.... (sorry Broons) and then here we are....

I think there are some actual logs out there but I have not read them to see how they are going. Probably wont until my final opinion is rendered...

Mr.50

 

[hoopem6]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a 347% increase in testosterone be more noticeable than a minor libido boost?

 

[ambulldog]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a 347% increase in testosterone be more noticeable than a minor libido boost?

exactly. you believe that iforce, in their write up for their product that also contains bulbine, is claiming that it will bring your test levels into the supra range lol. all marketing hype. i used to love test boosters but if you expect more than a bump in libido, some attitude/aggression you have bought into the marketing hype

 

[Mr.50]

exactly. you believe that iforce, in their write up for their product that also contains bulbine, is claiming that it will bring your test levels into the supra range lol. all marketing hype. i used to love test boosters but if you expect more than a bump in libido, some attitude/aggression you have bought into the marketing hype

My baseline test was just over the midpoint of the range....I am not expecting a supraphysiological test from this product no matter the hype.... if I was near the top of the range I would be impressed. We'll see.

Mr.50

 

[mw1]

Hmmmm..well its still kind of early on so perhaps it will still happen for you guys. Are there any recommendations on taking Bulbine? with or without food ,etc?
I'm still interested in trying this soon from one of the companies using this

 

[ambulldog]

My baseline test was just over the midpoint of the range....I am not expecting a supraphysiological test from this product no matter the hype.... if I was near the top of the range I would be impressed. We'll see.

Mr.50

and that would give you exactly what someone should expect from a t-booster. i dont think some people really READ some of the stuff that gets thrown at them. ie say you have tt of 500 and comp x says prod x will give you 350% increase in test. that puts you at 2250 tt. yeah i dont think so. if it did its spiked for sure or the guy who gave the blood for the test is, well, on test

 

[andrew732]

and that would give you exactly what someone should expect from a t-booster. i dont think some people really READ some of the stuff that gets thrown at them. ie say you have tt of 500 and comp x says prod x will give you 350% increase in test. that puts you at 2250 tt. yeah i dont think so. if it did its spiked for sure or the guy who gave the blood for the test is, well, on test

Realize that won't mean much, since after all; its ENDOGENOUS testosterone and not a synthetic source of it. I like to take myself as an example, I still can obtain over 2000ng/dl naturally and am not that big of a dude, but I got plenty of ANDROGENIC attributes. :439:

 

[broons]

I think there are others.... and I really had no intention of logging it.... I just ordered a bottle to try it sometime and then I had some blood work scheduled and the bottle came in the day before..... so I took the blood work in the morning and then took my first dosage....then when I came home that day I saw Broons had started this thread and I sort of unintentionally hijacked it a bit.... (sorry Broons) and then here we are....

I think there are some actual logs out there but I have not read them to see how they are going. Probably wont until my final opinion is rendered...

Mr.50

Oh dude no apology necessary. That was my goal starting this thread. Seeing how this is such a new compound I just wanted to get as much user feedback collected as possible.

I don't really consider this a log at all per se, just the opinions of those who have tried it so far on how you feel it is working. As long as people are interested in hearing my subjective opinion, ill continue to post updates until my bottle is gone.

 

[Mr.50]

"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Broons again"


Mr.50

 

[james122]

so 2 weeks for both of you?

 

[Mr.50]

so 2 weeks for both of you?

Yup

 

[Mr.50]

not a good sign. only because even with daa I had strength increases. I am interested in your bloodwork, I had bloods done on schedual 2 months ago, a week after finishing nutra bulk daa and my test was still elevated enough for my dr to notice and ask whats up that was a big suprise! I guess i had high hopes for this supp.

Well dont get down yet.....I was in the sack with my lady last night and clearly felt some interesting positive effects BUT not sure if that was from Phyto or if it was because it had been a while (scheduling and travel problems, and Im trying to be faithful, LOL). But I can say it was pretty extreme.....will have to run another "experiment" and then see if the reuslts can be reproduced or if it was just a fluke.

Again the true test will be the followup blood work.

Mr.50

 

[OnTheRoadTo]

I think we should all step back for a minute and see how ****ing irresponsible it is for supplement companies to start marketing their products as SERM replacements.

"Sorry bro, you were just a non-responder! There's always TRT." Gross.

 

[thebigt]

I think there are others.... and I really had no intention of logging it.... I just ordered a bottle to try it sometime and then I had some blood work scheduled and the bottle came in the day before..... so I took the blood work in the morning and then took my first dosage....then when I came home that day I saw Broons had started this thread and I sort of unintentionally hijacked it a bit.... (sorry Broons) and then here we are....

I think there are some actual logs out there but I have not read them to see how they are going. Probably wont until my final opinion is rendered...

Mr.50

you and broons are doing a great job- i really hope you guys see effects and don't feel you wasted your money.

 

[broons]

I know most my own and Mr 50's anecdotal experience so far has seemed disappointing, but it has really only been 14-15 days. Could just be a slow acting supp? I do believe it is starting to slowly ramp up a little. I've had more energy, my sack is definitely "fuller" and libido is definitely increasing. And my workouts the last few days have been the best I've had in the last couple weeks as far as focus and just wanting to tear **** up. Last night at work someone asked me if I had anger problems cuz I was going off on every little thing that annoyed me.

For me, biggest question is priceerformance. Stuff wasn't cheap and theres no disclaimer saying requires 2 bottles to really kick in.

 

[james122]

I know most my own and Mr 50's anecdotal experience so far has seemed disappointing, but it has really only been 14-15 days. Could just be a slow acting supp? I do believe it is starting to slowly ramp up a little. I've had more energy, my sack is definitely "fuller" and libido is definitely increasing. And my workouts the last few days have been the best I've had in the last couple weeks as far as focus and just wanting to tear **** up. Last night at work someone asked me if I had anger problems cuz I was going off on every little thing that annoyed me.

For me, biggest question is priceerformance. Stuff wasn't cheap and theres no disclaimer saying requires 2 bottles to really kick in.

no it not cheap, well glad to hear its better, i would have hoped it would not take 2 bottle two, we will se i guess?

 

[Mr.50]

I know most my own and Mr 50's anecdotal experience so far has seemed disappointing, but it has really only been 14-15 days. Could just be a slow acting supp? I do believe it is starting to slowly ramp up a little. I've had more energy, my sack is definitely "fuller" and libido is definitely increasing. And my workouts the last few days have been the best I've had in the last couple weeks as far as focus and just wanting to tear **** up. Last night at work someone asked me if I had anger problems cuz I was going off on every little thing that annoyed me.

For me, biggest question is priceerformance. Stuff wasn't cheap and theres no disclaimer saying requires 2 bottles to really kick in.

Well guys because of personal reasons I will be getting my second blood draw either tomorrow or wednesday.

Mr.50

 

[bdcc]

iForce have posted blood results from two testers with large increases.

Both were below the floor on test levels so we are yet to see anything from someone in range.

 

[ambulldog]

Realize that won't mean much, since after all; its ENDOGENOUS testosterone and not a synthetic source of it. I like to take myself as an example, I still can obtain over 2000ng/dl naturally and am not that big of a dude, but I got plenty of ANDROGENIC attributes. :439:

you my friend are a different story

 

[Outstanding]

Well guys because of personal reasons I will be getting my second blood draw either tomorrow or wednesday.

Mr.50

I'm really looking forward to this! Report back when you have a chance.

iForce have posted blood results from two testers with large increases.

Both were below the floor on test levels so we are yet to see anything from someone in range.

Hi, could you please link me to these posted blood panels? Thanks a lot

 

[thebigt]

you my friend are a different story

yup-andrew is a freak of nature, lol.

 

[bdcc]

I'm really looking forward to this! Report back when you have a chance.



Hi, could you please link me to these posted blood panels? Thanks a lot

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/i-force-nutrition/165154-tropinol-alpha-tester.html

As you said please and thank you I couldn't resist. Manners maketh man.

 

[Outstanding]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/i-force-nutrition/165154-tropinol-alpha-tester.html

As you said please and thank you I couldn't resist. Manners maketh man.

Reps a' comin your way!

 

[broons]

Well guys because of personal reasons I will be getting my second blood draw either tomorrow or wednesday.

Mr.50

Cant wait to see your results man!

I do feel as if this supp is starting to slowly kick in and I say slooowly. Libido and aggression are rising steadily. I'm guessing that about the time the bottle is empty I'll be really feeling it.

 

[Mr.50]

Cant wait to see your results man!

I do feel as if this supp is starting to slowly kick in and I say slooowly. Libido and aggression are rising steadily. I'm guessing that about the time the bottle is empty I'll be really feeling it.

Had my blood drawn this morning (then went for some fasted cardio). Should have the results back in a few days. I do have to agree with Broons though...it feels as if it is really subtly kicking in....very even increase though subjectively. Not like other test boosters where 2 days after you start taking them you want to screw anything in sight. We'll see what the blood work says.

Mr.50

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

Realize that won't mean much, since after all; its ENDOGENOUS testosterone and not a synthetic source of it. I like to take myself as an example, I still can obtain over 2000ng/dl naturally and am not that big of a dude, but I got plenty of ANDROGENIC attributes. :439:

Are you saying that endogenous testosterone levels released by the HPTA axis...the thing that sky rockets during puberty in men...has no effect on strength, recovery, and muscle mass?

 

[Mr.50]

Are you saying that endogenous testosterone levels released by the HPTA axis...the thing that sky rockets during puberty in men...has no effect on strength, recovery, and muscle mass?

I think what he was trying to get at, Please correct me if I am wrong, is that if you already hover at the top of the normal range (say 1200ng) then going to slightly above the normal range (say 1400ng) will not have a tremendous noticable effect. This is not the same as say when a male going through puberty goes from very low testosterone (pre-puberty) and his body starts producing test in the normal range for an adult male (say 1000ng). That represents a significant change in the homeostatic environment which is really the link to anabolism, not any particular level of test. So a significant change in test level over any particula person's baseline (which can be different person to person of course) is what leads to the effects we usually associated with increased testosterone (not the level of the testosterone itself).

So a 347% increase should do something. But if that effect is only for people at the bottom of the normal range or below normal then for people with high normal baseline test the % increase may only be 20% and that is likely not noticable subjectively.

Mr.50

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

I think what he was trying to get at, Please correct me if I am wrong, is that if you already hover at the top of the normal range (say 1200ng) then going to slightly above the normal range (say 1400ng) will not have a tremendous noticable effect. This is not the same as say when a male going through puberty goes from very low testosterone (pre-puberty) and his body starts producing test in the normal range for an adult male (say 1000ng). That represents a significant change in the homeostatic environment which is really the link to anabolism, not any particular level of test. So a significant change in test level over any particula person's baseline (which can be different person to person of course) is what leads to the effects we usually associated with increased testosterone (not the level of the testosterone itself).

So a 347% increase should do something. But if that effect is only for people at the bottom of the normal range or below normal then for people with high normal baseline test the % increase may only be 20% and that is likely not noticable subjectively.

Mr.50

Well the reason why i ask is that according to his post(unless i misread it)....even if there is a 347% increase due to the bulbine...it would make a difference since the test is being released endogenously.

Me...a perfectly healthy 23 year old male never having used a hormonal cycle...suddenly expereinces a 347% increase in testosterone, i dont care if its exogenous(which shutdown the HPTA) or endogenous...i will definitely note an increase in training performance.

The decrease in endogenous testosterone has been well documented in the research literature to negatively effect training performance and various other factors(including cognitive ability if i remember an article i read not too long ago). Endogenous levels of testosterone are vital for training and if they drop, you will know it. If they raise, well it can only help. Even if a 20% raise helps an extra 5% in overal gains...ill gladly take that 5% considering these are safe gains with no short or long term side effects.

 

[james122]

Well the reason why i ask is that according to his post(unless i misread it)....even if there is a 347% increase due to the bulbine...it would make a difference since the test is being released endogenously.

Me...a perfectly healthy 23 year old male never having used a hormonal cycle...suddenly expereinces a 347% increase in testosterone, i dont care if its exogenous(which shutdown the HPTA) or endogenous...i will definitely note an increase in training performance.

The decrease in endogenous testosterone has been well documented in the research literature to negatively effect training performance and various other factors(including cognitive ability if i remember an article i read not too long ago). Endogenous levels of testosterone are vital for training and if they drop, you will know it. If they raise, well it can only help. Even if a 20% raise helps an extra 5% in overal gains...ill gladly take that 5% considering these are safe gains with no short or long term side effects.

I have to agree with this. Long term side effects are a bear to deal with, thats why I want bulbine to be legit!

 

[Mr.50]

Well the reason why i ask is that according to his post(unless i misread it)....even if there is a 347% increase due to the bulbine...it would make a difference since the test is being released endogenously.

Me...a perfectly healthy 23 year old male never having used a hormonal cycle...suddenly expereinces a 347% increase in testosterone, i dont care if its exogenous(which shutdown the HPTA) or endogenous...i will definitely note an increase in training performance.

The decrease in endogenous testosterone has been well documented in the research literature to negatively effect training performance and various other factors(including cognitive ability if i remember an article i read not too long ago). Endogenous levels of testosterone are vital for training and if they drop, you will know it. If they raise, well it can only help. Even if a 20% raise helps an extra 5% in overal gains...ill gladly take that 5% considering these are safe gains with no short or long term side effects.

No no.... I agree. BUT what I am saying is that the percentage increase is really the only relevant factor in determining if you "notice" a difference. The total level is really not that relevant because in a living system there are many other hormones that play a factor as well as neurological factors. So if your baseline is 1200ngs of Test then your body may or may not (depending on your body's internal set points for homeostasis) raise estrogen conversion, cortisol production, insuling sensitivity, etc to attempt to make sure the "anabolic" effect throughout your body does not go unchecked. So its the relative change compared to the baseline values (and their relationship to the baseline values of the other hormones and factors) that really tells the tale.

Mr.50

 

[Mr.50]

I have to agree with this. Long term side effects are a bear to deal with, thats why I want bulbine to be legit!

I went back and reread the original poster's post (andrew) and I disagree with it based on my above explainations. Andrew obviously has a naturally occuring baseline value for test that is high but looking at that and using that with the factor that he is not that big of a guy (he said it not me) to reach a conclusion about if high endogenous test will produce an effect is an erroneous argument because it discounts the other internal factors in Andrew's body that may offset the anabolic effect of his high natural test.

Mr.50

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

No no.... I agree. BUT what I am saying is that the percentage increase is really the only relevant factor in determining if you "notice" a difference. The total level is really not that relevant because in a living system there are many other hormones that play a factor as well as neurological factors. So if your baseline is 1200ngs of Test then your body may or may not (depending on your body's internal set points for homeostasis) raise estrogen conversion, cortisol production, insuling sensitivity, etc to attempt to make sure the "anabolic" effect throughout your body does not go unchecked. So its the relative change compared to the baseline values (and their relationship to the baseline values of the other hormones and factors) that really tells the tale.

Mr.50

You make an excellent point that I overlooked in our discussion. Good post.

 

[oufinny]

Good discussion happening in here and I have enjoyed reading these posts. That said, regardless of what the total % increase in free/total test is, the real question is how effective is it over a large population of users. Moreover, how will it perform for those using it standalone like GHGH will as a natural athlete versus someone like me who wants to use it after a cycle of Epi or anyone else using it after a hormonal cycle. Lastly, test needs to be raised for more than just a few weeks to be truly effective so if this cannot be ran for say 8 weeks where you test is elevated for 6 of those weeks to a much higher than baseline level, it may not really be worth the cost. Some may disagree with this but for anyone who has taken a natural test booster, most agree that those runs are best at 8 weeks in length and produce the most gains that way as well.

 

[broons]

One thing I was wondering that I don't think I've seen anywhere. Does anyone know if this is like most natty boosters where 8 weeks is the maximum recommended cycle?

 

[Rahl]

I think the label recommends no more than 8.

 

[thebigt]

Good discussion happening in here and I have enjoyed reading these posts. That said, regardless of what the total % increase in free/total test is, the real question is how effective is it over a large population of users. Moreover, how will it perform for those using it standalone like GHGH will as a natural athlete versus someone like me who wants to use it after a cycle of Epi or anyone else using it after a hormonal cycle. Lastly, test needs to be raised for more than just a few weeks to be truly effective so if this cannot be ran for say 8 weeks where you test is elevated for 6 of those weeks to a much higher than baseline level, it may not really be worth the cost. Some may disagree with this but for anyone who has taken a natural test booster, most agree that those runs are best at 8 weeks in length and produce the most gains that way as well.

OH MAN, DO I AGREE WITH THIS POST. when i started trt my test was very low-my doc called me into office and i got a 400mg shot. he also gave me a script for self injections. within a couple of days my libido went through the roof, i started feeling more energetic within a week.

BUT it was at least a month after starting trt that i felt any true difference in strength at the gym.

now-the question is, how could you expect a otc test booster to give results in the gym faster than actual testosterone?

 

[james122]

OH MAN, DO I AGREE WITH THIS POST. when i started trt my test was very low-my doc called me into office and i got a 400mg shot. he also gave me a script for self injections. within a couple of days my libido went through the roof, i started feeling more energetic within a week.

BUT it was at least a month after starting trt that i felt any true difference in strength at the gym.

now-the question is, how could you expect a otc test booster to give results in the gym faster than actual testosterone?

that being said, I guess that is the real question? maybe it is something that needs to be run for 8 weeks or more?

 

[thebigt]

that being said, I guess that is the real question? maybe it is something that needs to be run for 8 weeks or more?

to get true, substantial gains in the gym i think 8 weeks for every test booster-with maybe the exception of daa, not sure on that one yet. it seems that test needs to be elevated for a period of time before results start to happen- that is why people run aas for long cycles, imo.

 

[oufinny]

to get true, substantial gains in the gym i think 8 weeks for every test booster-with maybe the exception of daa, not sure on that one yet. it seems that test needs to be elevated for a period of time before results start to happen- that is why people run aas for long cycles, imo.

Test IMO shares that same property of needed duration [exceeding 8 weeks] that HGH has of 6 months based on what I read. Plus, as BigT said in his other post, it is not just feeling better that means it is working it is the anabolic properties showing themselves and decreased fat mass that comes with higher test levels for extended periods. I.E. why everyone run injectible test, relatively safe and wildly effective. Now, if Phyto works as it is advertised which I REALLY do hope it does, then we have ourselves winner boys and girls .

 

[needtogetmuscle]

Hey awesome thread going here guys and I would have to agree on the 8 weeks being Ideal for stand alone test/performance boosting. Doing a give away ont he product in another thread to get as may different logs going as we can too..

I noticed some one mentioned something to the effect of "hope you did not waste your money" .. Come on guys I would think by now everyone would know that any product I deal with and own You are never going to have to worry about wasting your money.. Contact me, send the empty bottle back for all I care and I will get you a refund. Take the money and spend it on another product I sell until you find one that you do like.

Its called a trusting business relationship between a customer and a seller. I am in it for the long hall with my customers and friends. Not the quick sales and I will make sure you are given every opportunity to find a product you do love through me and not worry about wasting any of your money in the process. That is how it should be done IMO..

Love and respect for all. And always here 24 hours a day.

 

[broons]

I noticed some one mentioned something to the effect of "hope you did not waste your money" .. Come on guys I would think by now everyone would know that any product I deal with and own You are never going to have to worry about wasting your money.. Contact me, send the empty bottle back for all I care and I will get you a refund. Take the money and spend it on another product I sell until you find one that you do like.

Its called a trusting business relationship between a customer and a seller. I am in it for the long hall with my customers and friends. Not the quick sales and I will make sure you are given every opportunity to find a product you do love through me and not worry about wasting any of your money in the process. That is how it should be done IMO..

Love and respect for all. And always here 24 hours a day.

Reps to you. Nice to see a company put their money where their mouth is, literally, and stand up for their products.

 

[thebigt]

Reps to you. Nice to see a company put their money where their mouth is, literally, and stand up for their products.

i agree, the man was generous enough to let me try 2 of his products [formastanzol/skeletal balm] and i can honestly say i was very impressed with both.

this doesn't guarantee that this product will be a winner but the money back guarantee sure does sweeten the pot, imo.

 

[scoooter]

Well dont get down yet.....I was in the sack with my lady last night and clearly felt some interesting positive effects BUT not sure if that was from Phyto or if it was because it had been a while (scheduling and travel problems, and Im trying to be faithful, LOL). But I can say it was pretty extreme.....will have to run another "experiment" and then see if the reuslts can be reproduced or if it was just a fluke.

Again the true test will be the followup blood work.

Mr.50

Curious to learn how the 2nd "experiment" turn out ?
Arousal increase, would most certainly be an attribute to the supp., I would think.