Nabisco's Unnatural Transformation (PP/Epi/Form TD STACK)

[Nabisco]

Day 10​

Rough day at work, manufacturing line went down and I had to find and fix the problem so we could get back up an running. Long story short I missed my 9:30 meal and didnt get to eat until 11:30. To make up for this I pounded another meal at 1:30, then another just after 3:30. This caught me up on calories for the day. On to the workout.

Workout:

Hanging leg raises (to the sides for obliques)
BWx10, BWx10, (strapped to chinup bar at this point) BWx18, BWx18, BWx16

Squats
205x12, 225x6, 245x4

Leg Extensions
125x12, 140x8, 160x6

Leg Curls
100x12, 110x8, 120x6

Standing Machine Calf Raises
250x15, 250x15, 260x15, 270x15, 300x10

SLDLs
155x10, 175x6, 195x4

Goodmornings
65x10, 85x6, 105x4

15 minutes walking around the track.

Pretty good workout overall. Didn't get the full amount of reps on my 2nd or 3rd set of squats, but was happy with the weight. It just felt heavy today. Leg Extensions were easy, will have to increase weight next leg day, Leg curls remain hard and I struggle to add weight to these. My calf raises are increasing but I want to be doing more than twice my body weight by the end of the cycle. SLDLs and Goodmornings are my heavy sets, hence the 10,6,4 instead of the normal 12,8,6 and those have been steadily increasing. So overall Im happy with the workout and with my progress. I'm kind of disappointed that I didnt get a second bottle of PP, because then I could have ran 3 full weeks of PP and the fourth been transition to Epi, as opposed to my current setup.

Mood: Had to restrain myself today during a verbal altercation with one of the hourly employees at my job. DEFINITELY increase in aggression as Im normally easy going and just shrug stuff off.
Libido: No noticeable change
Energy: Good
Endurance: Good
Joints: I've spread out my stance for squats a little bit, just barely outside of shoulder width and its taken a lot of pressure off my knees
Pumps: Slight back pumps from the heavy sets.
Weight: 187.2 (+4.0) I'm expecting the gains to increase much more rapidly come next week. And I just have to keep telling myself I have 5 more weeks of PP then Epi after this week. Plenty of time to get over 200lbs.

prld2gr8ns: I was afraid that it was just that my body comp carries fat in my chest. I'd definitely say Im around 13% bf, I was almost hoping it would be something that I could have get rid of with Form. I'll keep dosing the Form TD as I have scheduled for the cycle just to keep an AI in my system. I'll have to look up lipoderm as I've never really researched it before. I'm going to take your and PumpingIron's advice and decrease my sodium consumption and try to up my water intake. Its very difficult for me to get over 2 gallons of water a day.

PumpingIron: Appreciate your input man, Im going to try to bump my protein over the 400 mark as best I can. And once I get into the Epistane, I'm going to cut back on some of the carbs and try to utilize its leaning effect that most people experience. Morning cardio (jump rope) will join my routine once I hit the Epistane as well. I want to use the PP to its best ability, bulking as much as I can with it.

thebigt: Im gonna keep the form at 60mg/day for this week, but next week its definitely going up. I'll find my sweet spot soon.

metroba: I agree, that forearm roller is the ****. I get such a better forearm workout with that than anything else.

nycste: Thanks man, hopefully there are plenty more to come. I'd love to be able to throw up 315 on bench with excellent form just once. I'd have to video tape that ****, just to prove it to my friends back home, lol.

 

[thebigt]

i know what you mean about keeping machines up and running. i work 3rd shift at a box factory. it gets hot as hell in there in the summer and tempers always get short.:cheers:

 

[Nabisco]

Alright, need some opinions on this here. I'm soon going to order a mixture of supps I want to add in soon, as well as, for PCT. Tell me what you guys think. I'm figuring on spending 200-250 on these supps.

Super Cissus Rx (Wanted to add this on top of Incarnate to see if it doesn't help my shoulder)
Poseidon (Im gonna run out soon)
Retain 2 (Have a bottle of the old retain, but its pretty old)
X-lean (wanted to try something new, instead of Rebound)

Sesamin? (Im almost out of fish oil, this seems like a reasonable substitute)

Lecithin? (Arnold uses granules of this in all his protein shakes. Not sure what people think of it today)

And if there is room maybe some X-dreams because who doesn't like IBE's products?

 

[prld2gr8ns]

Retain and xlean are two of the same.. both are cort blockers. Just go with one or the other. Lecithin, I don't really see much benefit from. Arnold used it primarily as a emuslifier to help blend and mix his protein shakes, has a good dose of choline so if your looking for mood enhancement then go for it. Cissus of course would be good for the ol shoulder, stacked with Incarnate should be solid. Sesamin is always a good option, if the budget allows I would take'em with some fish oil. Lot's of people report they work really well together. As for Poseidon, well the lord of hydration is always a safe purchase, should go nicely with any of the aformentioned products.

 

[Nabisco]

What do you think about for my AI then? I have some Rebound XT sitting at home from an older cycle, but I've heard that 6-oxo helps with libido better, and thats where I tend to suffer after my cycles. I've only used Rebound before, so I'm not sure what the big differences are between and ATD and oxo.

 

[prld2gr8ns]

A lot of people complain about the libido loss with ATD. If it doesn't bother you and you already have some, I'd say go for it. Bulk Trione(6oxo) would work exceptionally well in a dermal carrier, oral 6oxo would tend to add up if you wanted to get in the higher doses i.e 600mg+. Personally, I really like the 6-bromo type ai's even with all the speculation surrounding them now. RR or Restore are two of my personal favs.

 

[PumpingIron]

Nabisco, whats your bench right now?

 

[metroba]

Retain and xlean are two of the same.. both are cort blockers. Just go with one or the other. Lecithin, I don't really see much benefit from. Arnold used it primarily as a emuslifier to help blend and mix his protein shakes, has a good dose of choline so if your looking for mood enhancement then go for it. Cissus of course would be good for the ol shoulder, stacked with Incarnate should be solid. Sesamin is always a good option, if the budget allows I would take'em with some fish oil. Lot's of people report they work really well together. As for Poseidon, well the lord of hydration is always a safe purchase, should go nicely with any of the aformentioned products.

:goodpost: also agree on the 6 bromo.

 

[Nabisco]

I can max about 235 ntome: ) right now, which is sadly depressing. I can't for the life of me seem to get past this plateau, so i was going to hit heavy dbs for a couple of workouts.

 

[metroba]

I can max about 235 ntome: ) right now, which is sadly depressing. I can't for the life of me seem to get past this plateau, so i was going to hit heavy dbs for a couple of workouts.

Do you do the same chest w/o everytime..or do you change it up everytime.

 

[thebigt]

you might try the new cissusdrol, sinner seems to like it and you get cissus/6-bromo in one. nothing like saving a buck.:burg:

 

[metroba]

you might try the new cissusdrol, sinner seems to like it and you get cissus/6-bromo in one. nothing like saving a buck.:burg:

Ill vouche for this. Im using it in my pct. Sense of well being is awesome. Joint/ligaments are better than on cycle with bulk cissus. Strength continues to go up. Sex drive goes up. Overall good stuff.

 

[PumpingIron]

I can max about 235 ntome: ) right now, which is sadly depressing. I can't for the life of me seem to get past this plateau, so i was going to hit heavy dbs for a couple of workouts.

Whats your entire routine look like? Whats your specific chest day look like?

 

[Nabisco]

I've been doing the same thing for chest for about 3 weeks now. Trying hard to build some much lacking mass and strength in my chest, which I feel is my weakest body part.

I'll have to check out Cissusdrol. Thanks bros.

 

[metroba]

I've been doing the same thing for chest for about 3 weeks now. Trying hard to build some much lacking mass and strength in my chest, which I feel is my weakest body part.

I'll have to check out Cissusdrol. Thanks bros.

Dont ever do the same exercise 2 weeks in a row. Do bb bench press wk 1, db bench wk 2, bb bench wk 3, etc. Your muscles get accustomed to the same w/o and you stop gaining.

 

[PumpingIron]

Oh, as far as the supplementation...If you want 6-bromo and a cort blocker and a test booster, look into ALRI Restore.

I am actually on it right now and loving it. I actually think I'm turning into a 6-bromo addict, everytime I use the stuff i am in the best mood.

 

[PumpingIron]

Dont ever do the same exercise 2 weeks in a row. Do bb bench press wk 1, db bench wk 2, bb bench wk 3, etc. Your muscles get accustomed to the same w/o and you stop gaining.

Not necessarily.

 

[metroba]

Not necessarily.

just my opinion. I dont get any stronger by doing the same thing 2 weeks in a row. When I change it up I my strength goes up. Whats your reasoning pi?

 

[Nabisco]

Entire routine is posted as a word document at the beginning of the cycle. Its a variation of Arnold's beginners workout, focused mainly on strength and mass building with lots of compound exercises. Meanwhile, here is the chest workout.

BB Bench Press
20reps, 10reps, 5reps, 3reps, 1-2reps x 5

Incline BB Press
12, 8, 6

Flys (I vary between flat, incline, and decline each workout)
12, 8, 6

DB Pullovers
12, 8, 6

Then back exercises are on the same day

Chinups, Bentover Rows, Deadlifts

 

[PumpingIron]

Nabisco, you are coming lose to overtraining, even on gear.

 

[PumpingIron]

just my opinion. I dont get any stronger by doing the same thing 2 weeks in a row. When I change it up I my strength goes up. Whats your reasoning pi?

I agree with you here. 2-3 workouts in a row, no progression, no major changes in your life/diet/supp/etc. then I would most def. change things around.

I guess I misunderstood you before.

 

[metroba]

This helped me up my bench quite a bit. http://www.building-muscle101.com/how-to-increase-your-bench-press.html

 

[Nabisco]

Any suggestions on what to cut out/switch up? I didn't think that i was putting too much volume in there.

 

[nycste]

Any suggestions on what to cut out/switch up? I didn't think that i was putting too much volume in there.

when i was starting to bench 225 and got 2-3 reps max

then got 4-5 some days i was soo pumped ya know what i did sent my body into shock

i did 10 sets of 3 reps at 205 then slowly bumped it up to 225

then i was doing 235x3 and 245x3 and i think thats where it stopped it was sick the weight was so easy. something to think about

 

[metroba]

when i was starting to bench 225 and got 2-3 reps max

then got 4-5 some days i was soo pumped ya know what i did sent my body into shock

i did 10 sets of 3 reps at 205 then slowly bumped it up to 225

then i was doing 235x3 and 245x3 and i think thats where it stopped it was sick the weight was so easy. something to think about

I tried this while I was on epi and it works very well.

 

[Nabisco]

So you just took a chest day and did 10 sets of 3 reps at 205? What do you mean by slowly bumped it up to 225? I just want to make sure I'm on the same page. So you do 10 sets of 3 reps at 205, then next day do 10 sets of 3 reps at 210? then 215? and so on?

 

[metroba]

no each chest w/o. not good long term but to get your bench up its a good one.

 

[nycste]

So you just took a chest day and did 10 sets of 3 reps at 205? What do you mean by slowly bumped it up to 225? I just want to make sure I'm on the same page. So you do 10 sets of 3 reps at 205, then next day do 10 sets of 3 reps at 210? then 215? and so on?

Bench Press
(week 1) 225x3,3,3 235x3,3 245x3,3,3,3,3
(week 2) 225x3,3 235x3,3 245x3,3,3,3 225x 3(A)
(week 3) 225x4,4,4,4,4,4,4 275x1 (died on 2)

found part of my old log cannot find the actual full workouts but thats an example of what i did.. dont remmeber what my maxes were then or anything. and i would imagine my breaks for these were short cuz only doing 2-3 reps not max isnt that hard

 

[TRX250R]

Subbed for later :woohoo:

 

[Nabisco]

Day 11​

Well now, no changes with dosing. Was a little off on my diet today, went out to lunch with some co-workers and had Indian food (buffet style). Heavy in carbs, a little light on protein and probably fairly fatty (the sauces were creamy). But other than that stuck to chicken, rice, and veggies, along with my breakfast of 6 egg whites, 2 eggs, and 2 pieces of whole wheat toast, with one scoop whey in milk. So my calories were definitely up today. Was afraid that cheat meal today would adversely affect my lift, but let me tell you WOW. Today was the best lift yet, so lets get right to it.

Workout:

DB Bench Press
75x12, 85x8, 100x2 (PR!) I've never even thought of touching the 100's before. This had me really pumped.

Weighted Decline Ab Crunches
15x10, 25x10, 25x8, 25x7, 25x5

Incline DB Bench Press
60x12, 70x8, 80x6 (PR!) The strength was through the roof today.

Decline DB Flys
30x12, 40x8, 40x6 (with extra low stretch)

Chinups
BWx12, BWx10, BWx10, BWx8, BWx6, BWx4

One arm Bent over DB Rows
60x12, 70x8, 80x6

Deadlifts (heavy set)
225x10, 275x6, 315x4 (PR) I was strapped in for the 315, but I feel like I could have gone higher. But I was stoked about 315 for 4.

Overall, best workout yet without a shadow of a doubt. Strength through the roof, 3 PRs in one day. I was high as a kite leaving the gym. My lifting partner (who doesnt know Im on gear) was absolutely blown away. Even some of the larger guys in the gym said something about my 315x4 for deads. Because compared to them Im tiny, hahaha.

Mood: Fantastic, but the awesome lift helped.
Libido: No noticeable change
Energy: Very good all day
Endurance: Excellent, getting better through my workouts
Joints: Shoulder twinged a little when I dropped the 100s after my last set, but otherwise fine.
Pumps: I felt swole today in the gym. Like my back and chest were popping out of my clothes, swole. I felt like I should look like someone twice my size
Weight: Will weigh in on Saturday (Day 13) Hope to crest the 190 mark and if I don't Im hogging down mucho calories this weekend.

To the feeling you get after an awesome day in the gym :cheers:

 

[thebigt]

i hope thats protein in them mugs:cheers: great job.

 

[Nabisco]

Thanks man, its always a great feeling knowing you're getting bigger, better, and stronger. And yeah, thats my post wo shake...whey, cycle support, and ground up oats. Although beer would give me some simple carbs :rofl:

 

[prld2gr8ns]

My guess is the high GI/carb content of your buffet had a lot to do with the awesome workout. I always get the best pumps after a meal with some extra zing in it. You get the hydration, and glycogen loading of the carbs working and all just goes great.

 

[nycste]

im to lazy to check all your workouts but sometimes it would be cool to switch your rep tempo

instead of doing
easy weight x 12 mid weight x8 heavy weight x1-5

try
warmup x15 easy weight x3 mid x2 max x WHATEVER...

just some food for thought. either way CONGRATZ on moving the 100s woot. i will secretly add you to the 100lb db club. dont tell anyone else.


o yea. ps. if you think eating one indian food mean is a cheat meal. u really gotta losen up bro haha

 

[metroba]

agree with nycste and pr on the indian food. I eat indian food all the time and Im losing fat at the same time. Its not that bad. Wow! 100lb on db bench. Id rep you again but it wont let me. Nice work!

 

[Nabisco]

Day 12​

Skipped out of work at lunch time and hit the gym. Its friday, my boss is gone, and I have stuff to do after work. So obviously I was running on fewer calories than I normally have before I lift, but other than that, same old same old. On to the workout!

Workout:​

Light Shoulders today to get back into it

DB Shoulder Press
50x12, 55x8, 60x6

Front/Side/Rear Lat Raises
25x10, 25x10, 25x10

Standing Military BB press
95x10, 95x8, 95x7

Standing BB Curls
95x8, 95x5, 95x4, 65x10

Concentration Curls
35x5, 30x8, 30x6

Skull crushers
65x12, 75x8, 85x6

Pulldowns
95x12, 100x8, 110x8

Felt like my biceps could use a little more...

Standing Cable Curls
40x15, 45x10, 50x8

Overall, good workout. I'm going to really focus in the upcoming arm workouts on really blasting my triceps, and really focus on the contraction for biceps. Again, today had that awesome fullness all throughout the workout. Like my muscles are bigger...not pumped...just...bigger. Its hard to explain. Its not anything like the pumps you get on NO products or creatine. Just a good solid full/tight feeling.

Mood: Angry day...work related, but an angry day all around.
Libido: No noticeable change
Energy: Very good all day
Endurance: unlimited during workouts it seems
Joints: Shoulder felt better working it today. It still pops every now and then, but no pain associated with it.
Pumps: Same full/tight feeling as yesterday...I LOVE it
Weight: Will weigh in on Saturday (Day 13)

Looking much fuller in the mirror at the gym today. Will post pictures two mondays from now which will be the end of the PP and the second week of Epi...ie the midway point of the cycle.

 

[Nabisco]

Final order from Nutraplanet.com today.

10lb ON Whey
4lb ON Casein
NOW Fish Oil Capsules
Retain 2
PowerFULL
Super Cissus Rx
Poseidon

Total: $250

Cycle Total: $600+ :run:

 

[prld2gr8ns]

Man needs his protein.

Looks like your getting what I like to referr to as contractile pumps(or dry pumps), where everything seems to always be in a semi contracted state. It's a pretty good feeling man, and really helps push those workouts even more. Sounds like it's working it's magic for ya man.

 

[Nabisco]

Day 13​

Its the weekend finally. Got an early night in last night, slept in this morning. Woke feeling refreshed and surprisingly not very sore or tight. Hit the gym at 3 today with only two square meals under my belt (since I slept in).

Workout​

Hanging Oblique Raises
BWx10, BWx10, BWx10, BWx10, BWx10

Squats (felt like going heavy today)
225x6, 255x5, 275x3

Leg Extensions
140x12, 155x8, 170x6

Leg Curls
100x12, 110x8, 120x6

Calf Raises
250x15, 270x15, 290x12, 310x12, 330x10

SLDLs
135x10, 165x6, 185x4

Goodmornings
65x10, 85x6, 95x4

15 minutes of brisk walking. Only downside is I completely forgot to weigh in today, so I'll have to wait until Monday's workout.

Mood: Subdued, Im still dealing with work issues from yesterday.
Libido: I think I've completely lost libido...it seems I have no desire to go out and hunt up some chicks. So I'm forcing myself out tonight with a buddy of mine.
Energy: Good, constant energy
Endurance: Still mighty good during workouts
Joints: No issues, I think the cissus from Incarnate is helping my knees and shoulders.
Pumps: Slight pumps after my Leg extensions
Weight: :sad: Forgot, will weigh in Monday.

Just waiting for my protein to get here...I have a feeling I'll run out today. I shouldn't have waited this long to order...but oh well Nutra delivers fast.

Tomorrow is my last day of solo PP. Starting Monday I will be increasing the dosage of Form TD to 80mg/day, PP will stay constant at 30mg for the first few days, then drop to 20 mg for the rest of the week. The epistane will start monday at 10mg, and will ramp up to 20mg as soon as the pp drops to 20 mg for the rest of the week. So we'll see how well my body transitions from one to the other, and what differences I'll see. Until monday gents.

 

[thebigt]

cant run out of the protein. in cases of emergency i go to wal-mart and get the six star brand. its only $15 and i think its made by same people who make muscle tech. it really aint to bad.:thumbsup:

 

[DefTek]

Just throwing this out there -- check into some of Doggcrapp's training principles to get you over those plateaus. DC stretches on my last set or two seem to help get me over those hurdles. Between cissus / and DC stretches I have been able to get my 235lb max bench (with pain) up to 275lbs (without.)

STREATCH and you body will thank you.

I am really thinking about diving into just a DC style workout when I do an epi cycle. That will definately be a shock to my system compared to how I lift now...

Keep the log rolling Nabisco - great reading so far!!!

 

[metroba]

Just throwing this out there -- check into some of Doggcrapp's training principles to get you over those plateaus. DC stretches on my last set or two seem to help get me over those hurdles. Between cissus / and DC stretches I have been able to get my 235lb max bench (with pain) up to 275lbs (without.)

STREATCH and you body will thank you.

I am really thinking about diving into just a DC style workout when I do an epi cycle. That will definately be a shock to my system compared to how I lift now...

Keep the log rolling Nabisco - great reading so far!!!

:goodpost: Do you think you can post a link to this? Im really interested in this.

 

[prld2gr8ns]

cant run out of the protein. in cases of emergency i go to wal-mart and get the six star brand. its only $15 and i think its made by same people who make muscle tech. it really aint to bad.:thumbsup:

BodyFortress for 13 bucks, and taste pretty darn good too.

 

[thebigt]

BodyFortress for 13 bucks, and taste pretty darn good too.

prid i should have known you would go with the 'cheaper' one. :drunk:

 

[prld2gr8ns]

:goodpost: Do you think you can post a link to this? Im really interested in this.

http://dc-training.blogspot.com/2005/11/unofficial-exercise-rep-ranges-and.html

DC training is legit and one of my personal favs to do.... not for the weak of heart as the rep/rest scheme is intense, not to mention the stretching.

 

[prld2gr8ns]

prid i should have known you would go with the 'cheaper' one. :drunk:

But it really is pretty good.

 

[Nabisco]

Day 15​

Well I have bad news gentlemen. I weighed in today at 186, which is only +3.0 lbs from when I started two weeks ago and I can't even attribute that to solid gain. I mean ****, I've fluctuated more than 3 lbs between two days before. So I'm trying to figure out what is going on...and I've come to the conclusion that PumpingIron was correct. I feel that I must be overtraining. My last cycle of PP was in college, and I ate what I wanted probably 3 times a day if that. I'd eat 1200-1600 calories in one meal (dining hall food), and I gained 12lbs and leaned out incredibly. Now I'm eating 7 times a day, getting 400+ grams of protein, a good amount of carbs, and only healthy fats and look at me...no where. I've made some smaller strength gains, but the size just isn't there to back it up. I got so depressed about this during my lift, I cut it short. My solution for now...lifting only 3 times a week (MWF). Same program, since its got the compound exercises, but see how that treats the weight gain. I'm hoping that I'll see a sharp increase in weight by next monday, with the reduction in lifting days. Anyone feel free to toss your 2c in here. I'm very open to some ideas, programs, anything to increase size.

Workout​

DB Bench Press
60x10, 60x8, 85x4, Now my working sets 95x6, 95x2, 60x10 (w/ 5s negatives)

DB Incline Press
60x8, 60x8, 60x5 (Was wasted from bench)

Flat DB Flys
30x12, 40x8, 40x6

Chinups
13, 10, 7, 6, 5, 4

Seated Cable Rows
120x10, 170x8, 180x8, 200x8

Cut out deadlifts...tossed some half-hearted abs in there.

Dosed 40mg Form TD this morning and 40mg Form TD this evening. Dosed 30mg PP spread throughout the day, and 10mg Epi this morning. Other than that, all supplement dosing has stayed the same. I just have to remember that most people, including myself!, don't see large weight gains until the third and fourth week. I know what you're thinking because Im thinking it too. Shut your hole you pansy and lift some heavy damn weight. :whiner:

 

[Nabisco]

I have read up on the DC Training program and it seems reasonable. I've just never tried to develop a plan based off of it. If anyone would be willing to offer some help/advice on gearing a good DC program to gain some solid mass, Im all ears.:blink:

 

[Nabisco]

On another note...I've really gotten the anabolic sh1ts for the past few days. I'm just trying to figure out how to stop it...:dump:

 

[metroba]

On another note...I've really gotten the anabolic sh1ts for the past few days. I'm just trying to figure out how to stop it...:dump:

Get some gut health. Will fix ya right up. Its for when you are taking in more protein and you are taking in a lot of protein. If you responded better in college to eating more=mass. Then try it out again. Plus you have what looks like a fast metabolism. Would prob be best to up your calories. My cousin had to eat (bwx20) instead of (bwx15) and it worked well. I have a mediocre metablism and its very hard for me to lose fat. I ate lotsssss of protein and then some stuff that isnt considered clean eating and i gained 9lbs and lost bf at the same time. Hope this helps. GL with the rest of your cycle.