My Current TRT State of Affairs

[FOXDIE]

on 75mg/E3D of test cyp, im getting morning wood the morning after my shot only it seems. and that only happens when i wait extra long to take my next shot. i feel that my libido boost is not from my higher T levels but from the transcience of my T levels going from lower to nice and high from a fresh shot.

is there any way to capture that hormonal magic and have it everyday all day? and im taking 200mg of dhea ED now; should i try starting at 25mg and increasing it every few days 25mg at a time to see what works best for me? or is 200mg a nice starting point?

i need my estrodial up from 8 btw. (this was a result from bloodwork done during my hospital stay for a colitis outbreak)


heres the problem: i can get erections if i stimulate myself, or randomly sometimes, or from the vibrations in a car etc....but what keeps my erections from staying strong is the lack of hornyness. i have no drive other than my mind. i KNOW in my head i want women and to ejaculate so i seek it. but the physical drive is gone, and thus the erection quality is less and needs to be maintained by "action".

everything is coming together nicely with my TRT and thyroid stuff...except my sex drive! i have no hornyness!!!

what could cause this?

 

[phatkid77]

your sexual symptoms sound EXACTLY like mine.... i know i want it...just dont to get it?? its weird feeling...i feel lazy?

phats

 

[KSman]

on 75mg/E3D of test cyp, im getting morning wood the morning after my shot only it seems. and that only happens when i wait extra long to take my next shot. i feel that my libido boost is not from my higher T levels but from the transcience of my T levels going from lower to nice and high from a fresh shot.

is there any way to capture that hormonal magic and have it everyday all day? and im taking 200mg of dhea ED now; should i try starting at 25mg and increasing it every few days 25mg at a time to see what works best for me? or is 200mg a nice starting point?

i need my estrodial up from 8 btw. (this was a result from bloodwork done during my hospital stay for a colitis outbreak)


heres the problem: i can get erections if i stimulate myself, or randomly sometimes, or from the vibrations in a car etc....but what keeps my erections from staying strong is the lack of hornyness. i have no drive other than my mind. i KNOW in my head i want women and to ejaculate so i seek it. but the physical drive is gone, and thus the erection quality is less and needs to be maintained by "action".

everything is coming together nicely with my TRT and thyroid stuff...except my sex drive! i have no hornyness!!!

what could cause this?

I worry that your E2 levels from when you were having other medical problems and unknown effects of medication might not reflect your current state.

Your response to transient T is normal in many ways. But everything else also really matches the effect that most get with E2 increases while on TRT. I think that you need new blood work. Get that done 1/2 way between your injections. I would shift the time of injection to the evening if that is better suited to BW 1.5 days after.

With 175mg/we of test/cyp, I don't understand how you could have low E2 levels. Perhaps that E2 blood work is simply wrong. The LEF.org blood work sale has been extended to June 4th.

http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/itemLC004515.html

Good or high FT, FT and DHT are not enough for libido. Yes, low E2 can kill libido as well as higher levels of E2. But the low E2 lab-work results are totally inconsistent with your large doses of T. My hormone levels are high, but when E2=37, everything was wrong. AI reduced E2 to 22 and effects are huge. Now aiming for E2=17-20.

If your E2 is truly low, then HCG might help. There is aromatase in the testes that converts some of the T-->E. The concentration of T inside the testes is typically [in normal men IE not on TRT] 100 times higher than serum levels. So there is a lot of T to act at fuel in the testes to drive the T-->E conversion. The testes, when working, also produce more than T and E. HCG improves mood for most guys on TRT. Some of this may be from the effects of having the testes producing hormones. But the HCG might have a direct effect on the CNS as well.

If you need more E, try a saturation dose of young ladies

 

[FOXDIE]

hey since my e2 reading was 8, and i suffer from symptoms of high/low e2, i was thinking of using dhea to get my e2 in the 10-20 range.

should i start off at 25mg and maintain for a few days, then step up to 50mg and maintain for a few days, etc? and see how it works?

should i increase dosage every day or every week? or is a few days the best?

should i just start at 100mg? or 200mg?

i have been using 200mg lately and i like the cognitive effects and energy. plus it supposed to be good for colitis at this dosage.


i want my hornyness back!

on a side note my erections are great and can last long, etc nowadays

this requires stimulation first and i dont feel very aroused, buti can get myself there...and im taking 400mg of b6 each day for prolactin....

is dhea a poor mans hcg? how are they similiar? different?

 

[pmgamer18]

Not everyone taking DHEA gets there e2 higher. You would do better to add in HCG shots do 500 IU's 3 times a week this will being up your E2.

hey since my e2 reading was 8, and i suffer from symptoms of high/low e2, i was thinking of using dhea to get my e2 in the 10-20 range.

should i start off at 25mg and maintain for a few days, then step up to 50mg and maintain for a few days, etc? and see how it works?

should i increase dosage every day or every week? or is a few days the best?

should i just start at 100mg? or 200mg?

i have been using 200mg lately and i like the cognitive effects and energy. plus it supposed to be good for colitis at this dosage.


i want my hornyness back!

on a side note my erections are great and can last long, etc nowadays

this requires stimulation first and i dont feel very aroused, buti can get myself there...and im taking 400mg of b6 each day for prolactin....

is dhea a poor mans hcg? how are they similiar? different?

 

[JanSz]

hey since my e2 reading was 8, and i suffer from symptoms of high/low e2, i was thinking of using dhea to get my e2 in the 10-20 range.

should i start off at 25mg and maintain for a few days, then step up to 50mg and maintain for a few days, etc? and see how it works?

should i increase dosage every day or every week? or is a few days the best?

should i just start at 100mg? or 200mg?

i have been using 200mg lately and i like the cognitive effects and energy. plus it supposed to be good for colitis at this dosage.


i want my hornyness back!

on a side note my erections are great and can last long, etc nowadays

this requires stimulation first and i dont feel very aroused, buti can get myself there...and im taking 400mg of b6 each day for prolactin....

is dhea a poor mans hcg? how are they similiar? different?

What is your DHEA levels on 200mg/day dose?
What was it before, without supplementation.
200mg is huge.
I was trying to raise my DHEA, was increasing my dose, on end I was taking 350mg/day plus 100mg of DHEA-7keto.
Got only slight raise.
Started on 100mg/1gram of pregnenolone cream, 1gram/day.
My April test shows
DHEA sulfate 306mcg/dL(25-95)

I am 3x over the top range, I since stopped DHEA pills.

 

[plymouth city]

What is your DHEA levels on 200mg/day dose?
What was it before, without supplementation.
200mg is huge.
I was trying to raise my DHEA, was increasing my dose, on end I was taking 350mg/day plus 100mg of DHEA-7keto.
Got only slight raise.
Started on 100mg/1gram of pregnenolone cream, 1gram/day.
My April test shows
DHEA sulfate 306mcg/dL(25-95)

I am 3x over the top range, I since stopped DHEA pills.

Preg Cream is a must, both preg and DHEA have horrible oral bioavailability. We can go with Preg + DHEA till levels stabalize then back off and try preg alone.

Pregnenolone is the mother of all hormones, second only to cholesterol. It will cause a cascade of hormonal increases, not just DHEA but all its metabolites, including all the andro's, T, E, and keeping DHT in check. Not only that, it keeps cortisol in check as well. Both cortisol and estrogen are often the real and hidden culprits behind low T(and androgens in general), and NOT being hypogonadal.

I am starting to see that nowhere near as many people are hypogonadal as many believe. DR's are to quick to write a script for androgel and toss people on the street without looking and reasons why. Unless someone has extremely high LH and very low T(under 300) or no LH and no T, I think its more likely a cortisol and/or estrogen dominance scenario. How many times have we scene a low T scenario and the person had healthy pituitary and testicals?

The beauty of all this is that a good diet and exercise regime, weight loss(there is no reason why ANY of us shouldn't have a single digit BF, its the way we are designed to be) and Preg + DHEA combo + E management can fix this.

I am starting to believe that Pregnenolone + DHEA transdermally is a must for ALL on TRT just the way hCG is.

 

[plymouth city]

What is your DHEA levels on 200mg/day dose?
What was it before, without supplementation.
200mg is huge.
I was trying to raise my DHEA, was increasing my dose, on end I was taking 350mg/day plus 100mg of DHEA-7keto.
Got only slight raise.
Started on 100mg/1gram of pregnenolone cream, 1gram/day.
My April test shows
DHEA sulfate 306mcg/dL(25-95)

I am 3x over the top range, I since stopped DHEA pills.

Not a huge advocate of taking DHEA orally, even 7 keto.

Your basically getting DHEA transdermally threw Preg.

Note that DHEA will break down into diff keto metabolites and pheromones.

 

[FOXDIE]

when i was on 100mg a week i had a level of test. 682 and an e2 level of 8.

i started on 150mg a week of test. cyp. after that last bloodwork. i also started taking 1.25mg of arimidex a week, and wellbutrin. my levels came back test. 1797 and e2 <2.

it is clear i need to elevate my e2 levels. i will stop the arimidex, but im wondering:

are my testosterone levels so high because my e2 was driven so low? like if i stop taking the arimidex, will my levels drop from 1797 and to something more correlated to my 100mg response? (like approx. 1000) i ask this because my doctor wants me to lower my dosage, but if im going to start raising e2 to healthy levels then it may start driving my test levels down right?

also i have been taking 200mg dhea a day. my results came back 481. should i modify this dosage? and after the arimidex is stopped, will this much dhea help put me in better position in the e2 range?

should i start low, and up my dosage 25mg a day?



help!


i read that having e2 very low such as mine permanently allows dopamine receptors to die after as little as 10 days and definitly by the end of 30...i have been with very low e2 for months and months maybe years... do i need to get my dopamine levels checked?


and last but not least, i called my doctors office to get the results. when the nurse said that my levels were high and that the doc wanted my dosage of test cyp reduced, i told the nurse that i was taking something to lower estrogen and that that probably made my testosterone go to high. i told her to have the doc call me so i could talk to her about it. now should i just be honest and explain i was taking arimidex from a damn website i ordered it from? how do doctors react to things like this?

 

[FOXDIE]

Bump

 

[JanSz]

when i was on 100mg a week i had a level of test. 682 and an e2 level of 8.

i started on 150mg a week of test. cyp. after that last bloodwork. i also started taking 1.25mg of arimidex a week, and wellbutrin. my levels came back test. 1797 and e2 <2.

it is clear i need to elevate my e2 levels. i will stop the arimidex, but im wondering:

are my testosterone levels so high because my e2 was driven so low? like if i stop taking the arimidex, will my levels drop from 1797 and to something more correlated to my 100mg response? (like approx. 1000) i ask this because my doctor wants me to lower my dosage, but if im going to start raising e2 to healthy levels then it may start driving my test levels down right?

also i have been taking 200mg dhea a day. my results came back 481. should i modify this dosage? and after the arimidex is stopped, will this much dhea help put me in better position in the e2 range?

should i start low, and up my dosage 25mg a day?



help!


i read that having e2 very low such as mine permanently allows dopamine receptors to die after as little as 10 days and definitly by the end of 30...i have been with very low e2 for months and months maybe years... do i need to get my dopamine levels checked?


and last but not least, i called my doctors office to get the results. when the nurse said that my levels were high and that the doc wanted my dosage of test cyp reduced, i told the nurse that i was taking something to lower estrogen and that that probably made my testosterone go to high. i told her to have the doc call me so i could talk to her about it. now should i just be honest and explain i was taking arimidex from a damn website i ordered it from? how do doctors react to things like this?

What is your SHBG

Stop Arimidex

 

[hardasnails1973]

What is your SHBG

Stop Arimidex

Taper armidex SLOWLY !! DO NOT COLD TURKEY IT.. Or you will get bad e2 rebound..

 

[JanSz]

Taper armidex SLOWLY !! DO NOT COLD TURKEY IT.. Or you will get bad e2 rebound..

I beg to differ.
Read his message, without any Arimidex and on 100mg/week of test his E2=8 and his TotalT was too smal (supposedly, I do not know his SHBG).
He took Arimidex on assumption that using 150mg/week of testosterone will raise his E2.
It did not happened.
There is a good chance that when he uses smaller dose of T, about 120-130) his numbers (FreeT and E2) will fall in place without Arimidex.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Additionally, about any rebound, we test minimum 6 weeks or more after change of schedule for a reason.
One reason is to get over with any instability and draw blood for testing when body is stabilized.

 

[plymouth city]

"He took Arimidex on assumption that using 150mg/week of testosterone will raise his E2":rant: Where do some of these Docs get these ideas, LOL

If anything, Im gonna go ahead and say any initial E flush from a rebound will be a good thing.

 

[hardasnails1973]

"He took Arimidex on assumption that using 150mg/week of testosterone will raise his E2":rant: Where do some of these Docs get these ideas, LOL

If anything, Im gonna go ahead and say any initial E flush from a rebound will be a good thing.

Yes e is good it helps burn fat and clears arteries prevent them from getting all caked up. With e2 that low love to see what homocysteine is as well as your other lipids. After 4 weeks then he should be measured again mr doctor is very familar with this from me being his first "challenging case", but From my case he is learning more about estrogen metabolism and other things that go over looked by tradiational drs. I introduced him to the Genova labs and he was going to have a field day looking in to what testing they have o offer..Only problem is you have to keep on him about things he tends to forget..

 

[JanSz]

Yes e is good it helps burn fat and clears arteries prevent them from getting all caked up. With e2 that low love to see what homocysteine is as well as your other lipids. After 4 weeks then he should be measured again mr doctor is very familar with this from me being his first "challenging case", but From my case he is learning more about estrogen metabolism and other things that go over looked by tradiational drs. I introduced him to the Genova labs and he was going to have a field day looking in to what testing they have o offer..Only problem is you have to keep on him about things he tends to forget..

Nothing personal, just trying to help.

I think FOXIE have to calm down first.

This thread started in middle of May, it is 2.5 months old, 11 weeks.
I see doses of testosterone 100, 150, 175, 200 being discussed.
That is way to frequent change in such a short time.

Between blood tests, waiting for results, waiting for doctor's appointment, starting new routine, stabilizing for 6-8 weeks on new routine and then new blood test, there was hardly enough time to cover one change in routine.

 

[hardasnails1973]

Nothing personal, just trying to help.

I think FOXIE have to calm down first.

This thread started in middle of May, it is 2.5 months old, 11 weeks.
I see doses of testosterone 100, 150, 175, 200 being discussed.
That is way to frequent change in such a short time.

Between blood tests, waiting for results, waiting for doctor's appointment, starting new routine, stabilizing for 6-8 weeks on new routine and then new blood test, there was hardly enough time to cover one change in routine.

Consistancy is the key and follow up blood work in designated time frames.

 

[FOXDIE]

i have only made one, single, solitary switch of dosages. i went from 100mg e6d to 150mg e6d.

since the 150 was too high, and the 100 too low, im starting to use 120mg e6d

but yeah, right now im trying to just take it easy and calm down, and stabilize. no more arimidex, new T dosage, and see where i go from here.

 

[JanSz]

i have only made one, single, solitary switch of dosages. i went from 100mg e6d to 150mg e6d.

since the 150 was too high, and the 100 too low, im starting to use 120mg e6d

but yeah, right now im trying to just take it easy and calm down, and stabilize. no more arimidex, new T dosage, and see where i go from here.

Whatewer weekly dose you end up, but make it E3D routine, specially important when you feel stressed or have depression or anxiety problems.

 

[FOXDIE]

ok so its been a while since i completely stopped arimidex...

since then, my body obviously has been increasing e2, from a tragic "<2" to something higher. How much higher i do not know without blood testing.

what i do know is that since stopping the arimidex things have gotten better with erections (slightly) and morning wood appeared for a few days (slightly) but mostly that is gone.

When e2 is rising, such as when people first start TRT, they usually have a period of great hornyness, energy, etc, and then after weeks/months it goes away due to e2 rising to high. with that being said, wouldnt i have been feeling great for a few days at least, and then went back into a bad T/E2 balance?

or could my e2 have started to increase, and it increased right past the "sweet spot" of what E2 is best for me, and I am now slightly/moderately above what E2 is best for me?

being a little above the correct E2 level would surely be an improvement over being drastically below the correct E2 level. This would contribute to my feeling better than before while on too much arimidex, yet still not feeling how i used to feel prior to having low natural T and TRT. I know how i used to feel 2-3 years ago, before my T levels got crappy and low. I want that raging horny, strong, driven self back.

what are your current thoughts?

 

[hardasnails1973]

NOw is a good time to get blood work done. after I stopped armimidex in 4 weeks my e2 shot up to 78. After stopping your armidex when you loose morning wood start with .25 armidex 1/4 tab every 3 days untill it comes back keep going untill it morning erections stop then go back to .25 every 4 th day untill you find optimal dosage. It usually between .30- 1 mgs a week to hit sweet spot. Also look at shbg ig it is higher then you need more e2 if it is lower you need less to function.
Beacreful progestreone can also come into play as well causing what you think is e2 and its progesterone. MY e2 was 17 at last blood check but since adding hcg I added .15mgs Every 3 day just incase of e2 increase, but I think between the preg and hcg my progesterone is high which is causing symptoms of e2. I tried upping ardmidex for a few days but smptoms have been getting worse insomina, consitpation, joint pains ans confusion. SO i'm going to hold off on armidex untill next blood test then I will see where I am at plus see if my morning wood will return..if my e2 is above 50 i will start with .25 e3rd day then checkl eat in 3-4 weeks to see if it is dropping then goto .25 EOD. For now Im doing calcium D 1500 mgs a day and reservatrol 300 mgs once a day and iodoral 50 mgs till next blood test..


If one has low 2 how would that effect the tsh if i been increaseing my thyroid Even on thyroid pills mine was 2.50 which never made sense..last tiem it was .98. Is it possible th elow e2 was over stressing the adrenals which was resulting in higher tsh

Daily administration of estradiol benzoate (10 microgram/100 g body wt) to intact male rats led to a twofold increase of the plasma TSH (thyroid-stimulating hormone) response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone (TRH) after 4 and 7 days of treatment whereas the basal plasma TSH level was not affected. The basal plasma PRL concentration and the PRL response to TRH were both markedly increased by estrogen treatment. The TSH pituitary content remained unchanged, whereas the PRL pituitary content increased in parallel with the effect on PRL secretion. Treatment with estrogens for 1 wk sensitized the TSH secretory response to low doses of TRH (10 ng), whereas no significant effect on the response was found at high doses of the neurohormone. The present data show that the stimulatory effect of estrogens on the TSH response to TRH is due to true sensitization of the thyrotrophs to the action of the neurohormone, whereas that on prolactin secretion can result partly from increased pituitary prolactin content

 

[JanSz]

ok so its been a while since i completely stopped arimidex...

since then, my body obviously has been increasing e2, from a tragic "<2" to something higher. How much higher i do not know without blood testing.

what i do know is that since stopping the arimidex things have gotten better with erections (slightly) and morning wood appeared for a few days (slightly) but mostly that is gone.

When e2 is rising, such as when people first start TRT, they usually have a period of great hornyness, energy, etc, and then after weeks/months it goes away due to e2 rising to high. with that being said, wouldnt i have been feeling great for a few days at least, and then went back into a bad T/E2 balance?

or could my e2 have started to increase, and it increased right past the "sweet spot" of what E2 is best for me, and I am now slightly/moderately above what E2 is best for me?

being a little above the correct E2 level would surely be an improvement over being drastically below the correct E2 level. This would contribute to my feeling better than before while on too much arimidex, yet still not feeling how i used to feel prior to having low natural T and TRT. I know how i used to feel 2-3 years ago, before my T levels got crappy and low. I want that raging horny, strong, driven self back.

what are your current thoughts?

You have probably been in or close to correct range.
What is not said often enough is that you should use Cialis twice/week continously or E3D.

When you are on E3D routine, pile up everything on that 10 minutes that you devote to TRT once every three days.

(T+hcg+Liquidex+Cialis)

actually there is LiquiCia

Latter on when you figure out your Arimidex dose you may have to continue Cialis or not but Cialis clarifies (amplifies) your situation about your personal E2 range that allows for erections..

With wrong E2 level Cialis is not going to help you much, so do not wory.

 

[FOXDIE]

funny you mention that! well actually last night i took cialis. i knew when i woke up i would have an erection for it. i did. it was harder than usual morning wood that i get. but thats cause cialis, like you said, amplifies effects. i figure even if i get morning wood with cialis, or weak morning wood with cialis, this is because i am close to my e2 perfect number.

i do notice since stopping arimidex that when my e2 came up from basically 0 to wherever it is at now, my penis hangs more looseley than before (NICE!) and that my orgasms are better and more semen is present. so hey, im at least CLOSER to my correct E2 than i was weeks ago...lookin on the bright side! i mean even in class sometimes if a cute girl gets too close ill start to feel my penis come alive...I KNOW IM SO CLOSE TO MY CORRECT E2 (but am i high or low)

but not at my perfect number. i belive if only 2 years ago i was a hormonal stud, and that i am only 22 years young, and my testosterone levels are nice and elevated (guessing between 800-1100), that i would be horny and have very nice erections at my perfect e2 number. i have absouletly no hornyness whatsoever. next to no libido. the other night i was having sex with this girl, and you would figure her being cute and it being our first sex together, i would be nice and horny. no go. i could get an erection, yes. i mean here is a naked college chick haha. sure i got an erection, but i want to have my primal hornyness back. i found that the sex was almost a chore. this isnt psychological as the same thing happens with other women, both hotter (therefor more likely to turn me on) and less hot (more likely to not cause me to be "nervous"). even worse when i view internet porn, i can get an erection with no hand involvement, just like with the girls sometimes, but i just dont feel that burning desire to jack off. i do these things anyway because i am young, and it is hardwired in my brain as a part of my life, but i dont have that feral instinct of ME MAN ME HORNY ME WANT SEX. i never get horny throughout the day, or want sex really that much physically. just in my head.

so to sum it up: erections are a 2 or 3 on a scale of 1-5. hornyness is a 1 on a scale of 1-5.

is it more likely at this point that using a very small amount, say .2ml of liquidex e4d would be a better bet, then assuming that i have STILL low e2, and actually need to continue waiting for my e2 to rise still? or that i may even need estrogen supplementation?

its been 3 weeks at least by the way, since i stopped using arimidex and lowered my T shots from 150 e6d to 120 e6d. (this was due to a level of T of "1797" and E2 "<2" while on heavy arimidex and 150mg e6d


so is e2 a little high now or little low? guessing i can take mild amounts of arimidex, and if it helps, then i was high, if it hurts then i was low....



im sorry my posts are so long and detailed, but im now in my final year of college, and im tired of losing this window of opprtunity, when my plumbing and drive was perfect i would be bangin a new girl every week....i want that back! and i hope all the detail paints a complete picture allowing you guys to better judge my situation.


peace and love, thanks to all who are helping me out!

 

[pmgamer18]

Not doing any arimidex when the wood started back you should have started back on arimidex. I don't remember what dose you were on that drove you down so low but if it was a lot then start at .25mgs every 3 days now and gauge by your wood. If it comes on strong you at the right levels keep at it but if it stops stop the arimidex until it is back then go back on it but do .25mgs every 4 days and so on.

 

[JanSz]

funny you mention that! well actually last night i took cialis. i knew when i woke up i would have an erection for it. i did. it was harder than usual morning wood that i get. but thats cause cialis, like you said, amplifies effects. i figure even if i get morning wood with cialis, or weak morning wood with cialis, this is because i am close to my e2 perfect number.

i do notice since stopping arimidex that when my e2 came up from basically 0 to wherever it is at now, my penis hangs more looseley than before (NICE!) and that my orgasms are better and more semen is present. so hey, im at least CLOSER to my correct E2 than i was weeks ago...lookin on the bright side! i mean even in class sometimes if a cute girl gets too close ill start to feel my penis come alive...I KNOW IM SO CLOSE TO MY CORRECT E2 (but am i high or low)

but not at my perfect number. i belive if only 2 years ago i was a hormonal stud, and that i am only 22 years young, and my testosterone levels are nice and elevated (guessing between 800-1100), that i would be horny and have very nice erections at my perfect e2 number. i have absouletly no hornyness whatsoever. next to no libido. the other night i was having sex with this girl, and you would figure her being cute and it being our first sex together, i would be nice and horny. no go. i could get an erection, yes. i mean here is a naked college chick haha. sure i got an erection, but i want to have my primal hornyness back. i found that the sex was almost a chore. this isnt psychological as the same thing happens with other women, both hotter (therefor more likely to turn me on) and less hot (more likely to not cause me to be "nervous"). even worse when i view internet porn, i can get an erection with no hand involvement, just like with the girls sometimes, but i just dont feel that burning desire to jack off. i do these things anyway because i am young, and it is hardwired in my brain as a part of my life, but i dont have that feral instinct of ME MAN ME HORNY ME WANT SEX. i never get horny throughout the day, or want sex really that much physically. just in my head.

so to sum it up: erections are a 2 or 3 on a scale of 1-5. hornyness is a 1 on a scale of 1-5.

is it more likely at this point that using a very small amount, say .2ml of liquidex e4d would be a better bet, then assuming that i have STILL low e2, and actually need to continue waiting for my e2 to rise still? or that i may even need estrogen supplementation?

its been 3 weeks at least by the way, since i stopped using arimidex and lowered my T shots from 150 e6d to 120 e6d. (this was due to a level of T of "1797" and E2 "<2" while on heavy arimidex and 150mg e6d


so is e2 a little high now or little low? guessing i can take mild amounts of arimidex, and if it helps, then i was high, if it hurts then i was low....



im sorry my posts are so long and detailed, but im now in my final year of college, and im tired of losing this window of opprtunity, when my plumbing and drive was perfect i would be bangin a new girl every week....i want that back! and i hope all the detail paints a complete picture allowing you guys to better judge my situation.


peace and love, thanks to all who are helping me out!

Keep on banging, and do few in my name.
Just make sure to respect me and do it extra special when done in my name.

Warning on Cialis or (Liquidex).

Just right dose or little larger probably does not make much difference.
If you lower frequency from 3 to four days makes little difference.
but
do not use it more often than every 36 hours.

Cialis lowers blood pressure.

Twice I did used it (probably on day2), felt like s-hit next couple days, it is not worth it. No benefit.
.
.

 

[plymouth city]

When e2 is rising, such as when people first start TRT, they usually have a period of great hornyness, energy, etc, and then after weeks/months it goes away due to e2 rising to high. with that being said, wouldnt i have been feeling great for a few days at least, and then went back into a bad T/E2 balance?

No no no.

Rising E2 is not why people feel great initially on HRT.

There is not a shortage of E2 around, trust me. More like a surplus.

People feel great on TRT initially because of an increase in T. They are getting their T back.

 

[FOXDIE]

No no no.

Rising E2 is not why people feel great initially on HRT.

There is not a shortage of E2 around, trust me. More like a surplus.

People feel great on TRT initially because of an increase in T. They are getting their T back.

i am in whatsoever thinking that rising e2 is why people feel great. i am simply stating that many feel great initially on TRT because, like you said, testosterone increases and they are getting it back. but then e2 slowly creeps up and up, and then weeks/months later people dont feel the same as when they started. they then lower there e2 to a nice level and retain most/all of their just-starting-trt-greatness!

and so your also saying that it is extremely unlikely, nigh impossible that my e2 is too low while on 120mg of T e6d? that must mean that since my e2 isnt right then it most, almost certainly is a tad too high.

i took .3mg of arimidex today, and will continue taking .3mg e4d. if this helps i will slightly increase dosage/decrease dosing latency until returns diminish.


thanks all!

 

[KSman]

There is a very strong response to a transient increase in T and then your reactions/horniness normalize. It is the transient that you feel intensely, you level off as the rising E2 also starts to threaten.

 

[Mbmartin]

FOXDIE,

I'm 22 and I've been experiencing all of the same problems you have. It started when I was 17. Since then I've had perhaps 7 or 8 days where I felt like my old self, raging libido and all.

I'm currently on 50mg of depo-test E3D, 3 grains of armour thyroid/day, and 20mgs of HC/day. I feel better but still have absolutely no libido. I have also tried many different dosages over the past 5 years (100mg E7D, 75mg E5D, 150mg E7D, 200mg E7D, 75mg E7D, etc) and I feel the best using an E3D protocol, with my dosage somewhere between 50-60mg. However, still no sex drive; I just can't seem to get my estradiol into the right range (and it doesn't help that the labs here don't run the ultra-sensitive estradiol test).

Keep us updated on how your treatment goes - I'm getting desperate for even 1/10th of the libido I used to have.

 

[hardasnails1973]

FOXDIE,

I'm 22 and I've been experiencing all of the same problems you have. It started when I was 17. Since then I've had perhaps 7 or 8 days where I felt like my old self, raging libido and all.

I'm currently on 50mg of depo-test E3D, 3 grains of armour thyroid/day, and 20mgs of HC/day. I feel better but still have absolutely no libido. I have also tried many different dosages over the past 5 years (100mg E7D, 75mg E5D, 150mg E7D, 200mg E7D, 75mg E7D, etc) and I feel the best using an E3D protocol, with my dosage somewhere between 50-60mg. However, still no sex drive; I just can't seem to get my estradiol into the right range (and it doesn't help that the labs here don't run the ultra-sensitive estradiol test).

Keep us updated on how your treatment goes - I'm getting desperate for even 1/10th of the libido I used to have.

Have you added in hcg or Dhea because your know that in TRT you have to have back fill with pregenelone or dhea, if you are taking cortisol you need to balance it will DHEA i found that out the hard way. My joints and memory was suffering BIG time and could not get hard to save my life no matter what. Being on hcg and TRT my dr stopped dhea and went to preg creame to see if it would raise dhea, but i need both DHEA and preg creame. Since adding dhea back libido has been good getting blood work done in a few days to see where I am at. Next step for you is to examine estrogen metabolism and its pathways too see if there is a blockage and to correct it

 

[JanSz]

FOXDIE,

I'm 22 and I've been experiencing all of the same problems you have. It started when I was 17. Since then I've had perhaps 7 or 8 days where I felt like my old self, raging libido and all.

I'm currently on 50mg of depo-test E3D, 3 grains of armour thyroid/day, and 20mgs of HC/day. I feel better but still have absolutely no libido. I have also tried many different dosages over the past 5 years (100mg E7D, 75mg E5D, 150mg E7D, 200mg E7D, 75mg E7D, etc) and I feel the best using an E3D protocol, with my dosage somewhere between 50-60mg. However, still no sex drive; I just can't seem to get my estradiol into the right range (and it doesn't help that the labs here don't run the ultra-sensitive estradiol test).

Keep us updated on how your treatment goes - I'm getting desperate for even 1/10th of the libido I used to have.

Dr Marianco comented that people with low SHBG benefit when they increase frequency of shots.
What is your SHBG?

Excessive TotalT levels may push SHBG further down.

With lower SHBG it takes less of TotalTestosterone to get FreeT to proper range.

I think that when considering E2 there is similar effect.
What counts (I think) is correct level of FreeE2.
E2 is also binded by SHBG

Quest have a test
Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)
it measures
Estradiol, Free (Males (Adult): < or = 0.45 pg/mL )
Estradiol (Males (Adult): < or = 29 pg/mL)

============================================
Going by my previous exoerience, there is a good possibility that part of problems with controling E2 is with Arimidex.
The pills are very small, hard to cut, I could never get clean even cut. So the dosing of Arimidex is always a gues work.

I am using Liquidex now, it is easy to measure, I am hoping to escape at least some of this type of problems.

 

[hardasnails1973]

Dr Marianco comented that people with low SHBG benefit when they increase frequency of shots.
What is your SHBG?

Excessive TotalT levels may push SHBG further down.

With lower SHBG it takes less of TotalTestosterone to get FreeT to proper range.

I think that when considering E2 there is similar effect.
What counts (I think) is correct level of FreeE2.
E2 is also binded by SHBG

Quest have a test
Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)
it measures
Estradiol, Free (Males (Adult): < or = 0.45 pg/mL )
Estradiol (Males (Adult): < or = 29 pg/mL)

============================================
Going by my previous exoerience, there is a good possibility that part of problems with controling E2 is with Arimidex.
The pills are very small, hard to cut, I could never get clean even cut. So the dosing of Arimidex is always a gues work.

I am using Liquidex now, it is easy to measure, I am hoping to escape at least some of this type of problems.

Would to lower shbg you take less frequent shots?
My main ephaisis lowering shbg to match my normal 17-20 e2 levels.
is that range <29 is that in relationship to the orginal 13-54 range just a narrowed version

 

[JanSz]

Would to lower shbg you take less frequent shots?
My main ephaisis lowering shbg to match my normal 17-20 e2 levels.
is that range <29 is that in relationship to the orginal 13-54 range just a narrowed version

To get SHBG lower;
Not sure if it is right to say that but It think you should "overdose" on testosterone, probably about 10% or so.
The "overdosing" is really done twice here, first you ask for max on FreeT then you increase it again by 10%,
so do not go much higher than that.
I would rather stay on E3D schedule, definitely no longer than once/week.

Using dr Shippen chart, post #41
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html
Assume desired FreeT~250
Take your SHBG number
figure out you desired TotalT
multiply by 1.1
go to post #40
find out your preliminary weekly test dose.
convert it to your E3D shot size

stay on that dose for 2-3 months, retest
adjust test dose and watch your SHBG behaviour.

to adjust E2 use Liquidex, you may also use chrysin but it will get complicated.

Another way to lower SHBG is by using Stinging Nettle, such as in LEF
Advanced Natural Prostate Formula With 5-Loxin, 60 Softgels
Much less fun.
-----------------------------
When blood testing ask for these test (among other tests that you should do)

Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)
Estrogens, Fractionated, LC/MS/MS (36742X)
Estrogen, Total, Serum (439X)
Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
Dihydrotestosterone, Free, Serum (36168X)

 

[hardasnails1973]

To get SHBG lower;
Not sure if it is right to say that but It think you should "overdose" on testosterone, probably about 10% or so.
The "overdosing" is really done twice here, first you ask for max on FreeT then you increase it again by 10%,
so do not go much higher than that.
I would rather stay on E3D schedule, definitely no longer than once/week.

Using dr Shippen chart, post #41
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html
Assume desired FreeT~250
Take your SHBG number
figure out you desired TotalT
multiply by 1.1
go to post #40
find out your preliminary weekly test dose.
convert it to your E3D shot size

stay on that dose for 2-3 months, retest
adjust test dose and watch your SHBG behaviour.

to adjust E2 use Liquidex, you may also use chrysin but it will get complicated.

Another way to lower SHBG is by using Stinging Nettle, such as in LEF
Advanced Natural Prostate Formula With 5-Loxin, 60 Softgels
Much less fun.
-----------------------------
When blood testing ask for these test (among other tests that you should do)

Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)
Estrogens, Fractionated, LC/MS/MS (36742X)
Estrogen, Total, Serum (439X)
Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
Dihydrotestosterone, Free, Serum (36168X)

All those are in the urine test I am waiting to recieve results on. So it ought to be interesting..to see just how wacked out my metabolism.
i found reservatrol 100% active compents 4 tablets are 250 mgs so it ought to be interesting !! To see the results in a few weeks.

 

[FOXDIE]

RECAP: ok so before when i was taking .5mg every other day or so my e2 dropped to basically 0. not good. i stopped taking arimidex as mentioned earlier and started to feel much better and achieve better erections and morning wood, with the help of cialis i must add.

then at the advice of those here, started taking arimidex so that i would not go past normal e2, and into high. my question though, is after taking .3mg, then five days later taking .3mg then four days later taking .3mg again , i would assume i would see some sort of libido increase. i have not noticed any hornyness return. i can get it up like i said before, because when i party with hot chicks and have cialis in me, i can bang for a while. but the intense pleasure is not there, i never get very horny where i NEED sex or any of that good stuff. basically the same **** ive been dealing with without arimidex at lower doses of T, with arimidex with higher doses of T, and now with arimidex at my current dosage of T (60mg e3d).

my question is since my e2, unlike many of you here, was a perfect 23 before I started TRT. I had low levels of T, like 200-400 range, and trouble with erections, and mood but i could be horny.

this has me thinking that maybe young people like myself (22 years old) who start off with fine e2 have a working aromatization "thermostat", as opposed to you most of you older guys. maybe young people dont need arimidex nearly as much as you older folks?

now with that said, do you think that once on TRT even if you had prexisting e2 problems or normal e2, that it all goes out the window when you begin TRT?

or

do you think if i stay off of arimidex long enough i will continue to feel better and better and hit my normal e2? i think i may because my level of T injects should be putting me at the 800-900s, which is normal for my age, and probably where i was before in life with normal e2. in short, my young body will maintain proper e2 with an AI.

or

should i stop the arimidex anyway to at least get to a natural baseline that i can bloodtest and see what my "natural" un-AI'ed level of e2 is?

or

contrary to what many here have told me, it can take weeks for the libido to increase from arimidex use at .3mg e4d? and that i should give it another week (ie. 2 more doses) and see how i feel then? even if the dosage im using isn't enough, surely i would see either a noticeable improvement or degradation of libido.

thanks again to everyone. i cant wait to have all this sorted out!

 

[JanSz]

RECAP: ok so before when i was taking .5mg every other day or so my e2 dropped to basically 0. not good. i stopped taking arimidex as mentioned earlier and started to feel much better and achieve better erections and morning wood, with the help of cialis i must add.

then at the advice of those here, started taking arimidex so that i would not go past normal e2, and into high. my question though, is after taking .3mg, then five days later taking .3mg then four days later taking .3mg again , i would assume i would see some sort of libido increase. i have not noticed any hornyness return. i can get it up like i said before, because when i party with hot chicks and have cialis in me, i can bang for a while. but the intense pleasure is not there, i never get very horny where i NEED sex or any of that good stuff. basically the same **** ive been dealing with without arimidex at lower doses of T, with arimidex with higher doses of T, and now with arimidex at my current dosage of T (60mg e3d).

my question is since my e2, unlike many of you here, was a perfect 23 before I started TRT. I had low levels of T, like 200-400 range, and trouble with erections, and mood but i could be horny.

this has me thinking that maybe young people like myself (22 years old) who start off with fine e2 have a working aromatization "thermostat", as opposed to you most of you older guys. maybe young people dont need arimidex nearly as much as you older folks?

now with that said, do you think that once on TRT even if you had prexisting e2 problems or normal e2, that it all goes out the window when you begin TRT?

or

do you think if i stay off of arimidex long enough i will continue to feel better and better and hit my normal e2? i think i may because my level of T injects should be putting me at the 800-900s, which is normal for my age, and probably where i was before in life with normal e2. in short, my young body will maintain proper e2 with an AI.

or

should i stop the arimidex anyway to at least get to a natural baseline that i can bloodtest and see what my "natural" un-AI'ed level of e2 is?

or

contrary to what many here have told me, it can take weeks for the libido to increase from arimidex use at .3mg e4d? and that i should give it another week (ie. 2 more doses) and see how i feel then? even if the dosage im using isn't enough, surely i would see either a noticeable improvement or degradation of libido.

thanks again to everyone. i cant wait to have all this sorted out!

or
do blood tests and urine tests
and get all your estrogens in order.

One likes his hormones and other indicators in order not only for better sex.
Properly tuned body wil result with better overall health (and the best sex that is comming to you).
=============================================================
When autopilt in our body is working, all the adjustments are made automatically.
When we are on manual steering, frequent tests are needed to drive straight.
Forget about checking once and continue based on guess work.

 

[FOXDIE]

BUMP...please read my last post, and write an informed, detailed answer! thanks guys!

 

[hardasnails1973]

I notice after starting hcg that my e2 jumped from 17 to 73 with out arimdex BUT my shbg being high 39 would require me to need an e2 of about 25-30 or even higher to feel healthy. Keeping e2 down to low can really fuk up your lp(a) levels. Over past 4 weeks from stopping adex from e2 did go up to 73 but my lp(a) dropped down from 89 from 127 which is major improvements. After stopping armidex people get a horrible rebound effect and thinking that after 4 weeks you are leveled out simply adding hcg to the mix spiked it 3 fold..

 

[JanSz]

I notice after starting hcg that my e2 jumped from 17 to 73 with out arimdex BUT my shbg being high 39 would require me to need an e2 of about 25-30 or even higher to feel healthy. Keeping e2 down to low can really fuk up your lp(a) levels. Over past 4 weeks from stopping adex from e2 did go up to 73 but my lp(a) dropped down from 89 from 127 which is major improvements. After stopping armidex people get a horrible rebound effect and thinking that after 4 weeks you are leveled out simply adding hcg to the mix spiked it 3 fold..

HAN,
when doing Estrogen tests you may want to do at Quest
Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)
you will get

Estradiol, Free
Estradiol, Free %
Estradiol

The free is important, you will see the effects of SHBG, otherwise all you do is guessing.
My lattest results:
Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)
/------------------------------------Estradiol, Free 0.75 (< or = 0.45) pg/mL
/------------------------------------Estradiol, Free % 2.59 (1.25-1.85) %
/------------------------------------Estradiol 29 (< or =29) pg/mL

I increased my Liquidex from 0.5 to 0.6cc/E3D (not sure if that is enough???)
Going by my nightly boners and E2=29 I would have stay put at 0.5cc
I am staying with Liquidex, it is easy to manipulate dosing.
I have Arimidex at home, do not use it.


I am also having high hopes for
Estroessence from Genova, you got all estrogens accouted for over there.
Have kit at home, will pee first week of October.
That should give me answer of what to do with my dosing of
Resveratrol, TMG, and DualAction.
--------------------------------
On my last test, copper fall down to within range, after I switched my multivitamins.

 

[FOXDIE]

long time no talk. over the time since my last post i have been taking 200mg dhea a day (which put me at 481 dhea-s) and stopped all AI use. i was using 60mg T cyp injects e3d, and 1 grain of armour split each day, and taken sublingually. now things have gotten better...sort of. they got better for a week or so and then things got back to being kinda crappy again.

i have started to take cialis e3d because i figured it would help with penile health and amplify my libido's response through erections.

now over the last 2 days i have begun taking 100mg of pregnenolone daily. i figured that since my dhea dosage was very high compared to most others' and gave me normal blood results i would do the same with preg. so now i am taking 200mg dhea and 100mg pregnenolone a day. i feel better from the preg i think.

now dr. john himself has said that in rare cases where trt patients have low e2 (ME!!!) that he used dhea to get higher estradiol readings...

so does that mean if i take 300mg of dhea a day, or 400mg, etc that the extra dhea will convert to e2 and not just send my dhea levels into 4x the top of normal? is this a safe/ok way to keep e2 up? dr. john does it so its gotta be ok, right?

i know these dosages sound extreme, but my e2 was only 8 when i had a total test level of 682 while on trt. i have increased my trt dosage and started dhea and preg, but i know im still low on e2. if i was high taking an ai would help my libido, and it didnt soooo......


what now?

 

[hardasnails1973]

long time no talk. over the time since my last post i have been taking 200mg dhea a day (which put me at 481 dhea-s) and stopped all AI use. i was using 60mg T cyp injects e3d, and 1 grain of armour split each day, and taken sublingually. now things have gotten better...sort of. they got better for a week or so and then things got back to being kinda crappy again.

i have started to take cialis e3d because i figured it would help with penile health and amplify my libido's response through erections.

now over the last 2 days i have begun taking 100mg of pregnenolone daily. i figured that since my dhea dosage was very high compared to most others' and gave me normal blood results i would do the same with preg. so now i am taking 200mg dhea and 100mg pregnenolone a day. i feel better from the preg i think.

now dr. john himself has said that in rare cases where trt patients have low e2 (ME!!!) that he used dhea to get higher estradiol readings...

so does that mean if i take 300mg of dhea a day, or 400mg, etc that the extra dhea will convert to e2 and not just send my dhea levels into 4x the top of normal? is this a safe/ok way to keep e2 up? dr. john does it so its gotta be ok, right?

i know these dosages sound extreme, but my e2 was only 8 when i had a total test level of 682 while on trt. i have increased my trt dosage and started dhea and preg, but i know im still low on e2. if i was high taking an ai would help my libido, and it didnt soooo......


what now?

Have you checked methyation of estrogen metabolites if e2 is low your methyation is all impaired and can not uptake magneisum, calcum, or iodine and your COMT enzyme is bogged down casuing a huge build of nor 16 but also 4 hydroxestrones What was your 2/16 ratio. I know cortisol can lower estrogens, how mich zinc you taken . if you have low e2 then you have low ceruoplamsm and copper levels causing possible neutropenia and leukopenia leading in to some time of anemia check WBC neurtophils. where is your shbg at? look into ferritin levels too

e2 - increases ceruoplasm (which is an antioxident) - increases copper uptake- increases iron intake

With out e2 your detoxifcation compactiy are screwed !!
look up estrodial and hypomethyation and you will see the link..

 

[KappaRaider]

Well i was in the same boat as you were. I started at 26 years old. If i where you i would try to restart with HCG and a Serm. Continue the Armour and go with 50mg of DHEA every day. The only reason i say this is because one day you might want a child. At 22 you probably dont but things will change in a few years. Im 27 and expecting my first next month.

 

[FOXDIE]

hey guys since 200mg of oral dhea, split daily takes me to 481 dhea-s is it safe to believe that taking 200mg pregnenolone, split daily will put me at a ok number as well? or do i risk converting too much progesterone which isnt good, and also competes with dht?

currently i am just taking pregnenolone 100mg daily and dhea 200mg a day. i feel that extra dhea will convert to estrogen, so its not the end of the world, because i can handle that with arimidex, plus i need more estrogen anyway (mine is pretty low "naturally"). i feel that too much pregnenolone is bad because it will lead to too much progesterone, hence me beeing more careful. also ive noticed my thyroid seems to be working better...im almost thinking of stopping my thyroid meds for a week and seeing if i stabilize at normal again? (wise idea or no?)

lastly, i took .25mg of arimidex last thursday. i planned on using .25 every five days to see how i felt, thinking that all this dhea and preg will lead to estrogen increases. is it possible for that small of an amount, at so early on, to make an effect i can feel? i feel alot better mental, memorywise, and most important im getting random erections and can maintain them with ease. its only been 4 days since the first dosing! is this just a result of the preg i started recently, or can armidex affect you this fast?