MK-677

ZackD89

ZackD89

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Blackstone just came out with a product that looks interesting
I just ordered it on eBay. Might add it onto my Autumn bulk. It also seems like it could be useful for PCT since SERMS mess with IGF-1 levels. Or I might just run it without other stuff to gauge what it does on its own. Open to suggestions.

Sorry to resurrect this super old thread but....

If you were to pulse mk-677 by taking 2-3 times a week after your hardest workouts, would this still be somewhat beneficial while avoiding negative feedback effects? I know it won't be as beneficial as a continuous cycle, but would it help at all? would it hurt?
I was thinking the same thing after reading that study. Seems like some guys on the Blackstone forum are doing 5 on, 2 off. I like the sound of your approach or a 2 on, 1 off better though
 
goodvibes

goodvibes

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Definitely good read, I need to be more familiar though. I have 4 weeks til pct, I'm planning to run it then with other natty goodness.
 
ZackD89

ZackD89

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
I read other forums that some people recommend stacking this with Clen to offset bloat. I assume an EC stack could work too.
 
DR.D

DR.D

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
I'm not sure just read some recommendations on several treads on elitefitness.com about the split dose but screw pre-bed I'm gona dose 25mg pre workout from now on.
I admit I have no experience with this particular compound, but over the years I've tried just about every other GH boosting pharmaceutical, amino acid, peptide, diet, herb, etc.. and there are a few observations that never change.

First of all, it's hard to accommodate GH or GH boosters pre-w/o and still maintain good training intensity. It invariably diminishs the efficiency of your training, especially if you're dieting, because they generally have a sedating quality by induction of hypoglycemia or lowering of blood pressure (A2 agonists.) Since GH does not increase acutely the rate of muscle protein synthesis (or reduce the breakdown rate) then what's the advantage in dosing pre-w/o? It's hard to have a great workout when you just wanna take a nap, lol.

Second, MK has a long t1/2 and seems to work with a body's natural cyclic pulses, so it's not like you can force a situational spike with this stuff. All other things being equal and without too much consideration for pharmacokinetics, pre-bed or post-w/o clearly seem like the best considerations to obtain maximum benefit with minimal sides.
 
Blergs

Blergs

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
I admit I have no experience with this particular compound, but over the years I've tried just about every other GH boosting pharmaceutical, amino acid, peptide, diet, herb, etc.. and there are a few observations that never change.

First of all, it's hard to accommodate GH or GH boosters pre-w/o and still maintain good training intensity. It invariably diminishs the efficiency of your training, especially if you're dieting, because they generally have a sedating quality by induction of hypoglycemia or lowering of blood pressure (A2 agonists.) Since GH does not increase acutely the rate of muscle protein synthesis (or reduce the breakdown rate) then what's the advantage in dosing pre-w/o? It's hard to have a great workout when you just wanna take a nap, lol.

Second, MK has a long t1/2 and seems to work with a body's natural cyclic pulses, so it's not like you can force a situational spike with this stuff. All other things being equal and without too much consideration for pharmacokinetics, pre-bed or post-w/o clearly seem like the best considerations to obtain maximum benefit with minimal sides.
I agree with this.
It is definitely an interesting compound
 
motiv8er

motiv8er

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Thanks for all the info guys. This product looks great.
 

Toff

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
BUT high IGF-1 is the cause of many health problems
example, rare humans who have low IGF-1 literally cant counteract any cancers, heart disease etc. no matter how hard they try.

They are tiny human being, literally 2-3 feet tall, but they are immune to everything, -they have solid cells, built so slow they are built well, whereas the opposite of the scale, high IGF-1 is over-making of bad quality cells with no time to go back and repair

This in essence is the health benefit of fasting - lowers IGF-1, your body goes back to repair the cells your made slowly, opposed to GO GO GO mode like a Chinese factory churning out crap that essentially breaks

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/igf-1-as-one-stop-cancer-shop/
 
GreenMachineX

GreenMachineX

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
BUT high IGF-1 is the cause of many health problems
example, rare humans who have low IGF-1 literally cant counteract any cancers, heart disease etc. no matter how hard they try.

They are tiny human being, literally 2-3 feet tall, but they are immune to everything, -they have solid cells, built so slow they are built well, whereas the opposite of the scale, high IGF-1 is over-making of bad quality cells with no time to go back and repair

This in essence is the health benefit of fasting - lowers IGF-1, your body goes back to repair the cells your made slowly, opposed to GO GO GO mode like a Chinese factory churning out crap that essentially breaks

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/igf-1-as-one-stop-cancer-shop/
Interesting.
 
DR.D

DR.D

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
BUT high IGF-1 is the cause of many health problems
example, rare humans who have low IGF-1 literally cant counteract any cancers, heart disease etc. no matter how hard they try.

They are tiny human being, literally 2-3 feet tall, but they are immune to everything, -they have solid cells, built so slow they are built well, whereas the opposite of the scale, high IGF-1 is over-making of bad quality cells with no time to go back and repair

This in essence is the health benefit of fasting - lowers IGF-1, your body goes back to repair the cells your made slowly, opposed to GO GO GO mode like a Chinese factory churning out crap that essentially breaks

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/igf-1-as-one-stop-cancer-shop/
You make a good point that some may not be familiar with.

Obviously, this type of indiscriminate growth promotion is a roll of the dice, and one with a pre-existing metastasis is especially at risk. Also, I'd consider that a suppressed/undesirable immune status precludes the use of GH/IGF agonists as well, especially in the aged, or anyone with a strong Th2 phenotype.
 
Whacked

Whacked

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
DrD is in the house !! Nice ;)
 

Toff

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
I'm glad this has come to the forefront, it's always tough bringing up the other side of a coin but it's good to have a diplomatic conversation.

As said before, plus and minuses. Weigh it up, that's your prerogative
 
edje007

edje007

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
Have a look at this baby!!! ;)

Awesome sale on nutriverse

Code JULY30 GIVES 30% OFF!!!
 

Attachments

bobi593

bobi593

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Have a look at this baby!!! ;)

Awesome sale on nutriverse

Code JULY30 GIVES 30% OFF!!!
which of your others goods will be the best to stack with ghar1ne for 12 weeks cycle ? the goal is joints/tendons/connective tissue etc.
 
GreenMachineX

GreenMachineX

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
which of your others goods will be the best to stack with ghar1ne for 12 weeks cycle ? the goal is joints/tendons/connective tissue etc.
I've been wondering if joint/tendon/connective tissue was the goal only from using this, what would a good dose be? Same as anabolic dosage or could one use less (10mg)?
 
bobi593

bobi593

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
everybody usually investing in muscle would be nice to strengthen other parts of body from time to time....
 
Lexonis

Lexonis

New member
Awards
0
I stopped using mk677 after 8 weeks, It tricked me to believe that I got bicep tendonitis got also pain in my knee joint. The pain started in week 6 and 5 days has gone now and the pain is almost gone now in both places. I'll just stick to deer antler velvet high extract since I'm got much more benefits from that after my experience on it.
 

Toff

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
You get something from the deer antler? I thought it was bunk.

What do you experience?
 
goodvibes

goodvibes

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
You get something from the deer antler? I thought it was bunk.

What do you experience?
I think he's being sarcastic. Saying mk677 is just as good as deer antler velvet, useless.


It better not be though cause I just committed to a 3 month cycle of mk.
 
ZackD89

ZackD89

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
I think he's being sarcastic. Saying mk677 is just as good as deer antler velvet, useless.


It better not be though cause I just committed to a 3 month cycle of mk.
MK-677 has been studied and proven to raise GH and IGF, unlike "deer antler". I wonder if his source was legit. Also, I think people still need to work out the kinks with running it. The study showed that it's efficacy dropped after 4 days, so I think some sort of pattern like 2 on, 1 off or 5 on, 2 off shows more promise than a run with no breaks.

I'm on day 4 of MK Ultra by Blackstone, doing the 2 on, 1 off method. Seems legit so far--hunger has increased and so has sleep quality. I'm running EC during the day and taking MK before bed.
 
cheeky1

cheeky1

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
You make a good point that some may not be familiar with.

Obviously, this type of indiscriminate growth promotion is a roll of the dice, and one with a pre-existing metastasis is especially at risk. Also, I'd consider that a suppressed/undesirable immune status precludes the use of GH/IGF agonists as well, especially in the aged, or anyone with a strong Th2 phenotype.
Watching this thread with interest.
Valid points and they lead me to wonder what detrimental effects may be had by someone running MK-677 at length on a calorie deficit/cutting regime. Cut fats, lessened effectiveness for robust new cell building and toxin/waste/metals elimination, reduced anti-oxidant intake etc. Fast growth with a cut may feel good at the time, but once it's over it might be a little messy in there...
 
cheeky1

cheeky1

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
BUT high IGF-1 is the cause of many health problems
example, rare humans who have low IGF-1 literally cant counteract any cancers, heart disease etc. no matter how hard they try.

They are tiny human being, literally 2-3 feet tall, but they are immune to everything, -they have solid cells, built so slow they are built well, whereas the opposite of the scale, high IGF-1 is over-making of bad quality cells with no time to go back and repair

This in essence is the health benefit of fasting - lowers IGF-1, your body goes back to repair the cells your made slowly, opposed to GO GO GO mode like a Chinese factory churning out crap that essentially breaks

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/igf-1-as-one-stop-cancer-shop/
...should have hit multi quote to include this in my post above :sleeping:
Interesting train of thought, for sure.
 
DR.D

DR.D

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Watching this thread with interest.
Valid points and they lead me to wonder what detrimental effects may be had by someone running MK-677 at length on a calorie deficit/cutting regime. Cut fats, lessened effectiveness for robust new cell building and toxin/waste/metals elimination, reduced anti-oxidant intake etc. Fast growth with a cut may feel good at the time, but once it's over it might be a little messy in there...
Actually, high protein with low carbs is demonstrated to reduce the growth rate of cancers (the incidents too) so I'd guess a cutting regimen might be intrinsically safer than others. Cancers generally thrive on high carbs, not surprisingly. Not sure fats play a major role one way or the other.
 
cheeky1

cheeky1

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Fats, quality fats, are intrinsically important for cell wall integrity, keeping free radicals such as bacteria, viruses and other pathogens from entering the cell and inducing a metabolic disturbance - the beginning of cancerous cells. Fats are absolutely essential for good nervous system health and play a major role in effective hormone regulation and excess hormone elimination. Cancer is just one aspect to consider here, there are genetic factors at play also, plus epigenetics (the effect of [immediate] environment on cellular DNA) influencing our bodies ability to operate effectively and efficiently.

Notice how much is being mentioned these days about Alzheimers & AD? I see a correlation between the low-fat diets promoted heavily in the 80's - 90's and the now growing volume of 50-something-year olds being diagnosed with these neuro conditions.

Again, i'd be extremely wary of taking 677 on a calorie restricted diet - carbs yes, fats - definitely not. Besides, any unused fats (from a systems and cell building point of view) will simply be used as energy, particularly as SARMs like 677 & osta induce an increase in the metabolism rate.
Play it safe if considering such a cycle, would be my suggestion. A good tbsp. of raw coconut oil taken 2x daily will go a long way to alleviating concerns and provide a little anti-bacterial boost to the gut too :thumbsup:
 
Lexonis

Lexonis

New member
Awards
0
You get something from the deer antler? I thought it was bunk.

What do you experience?
those sprays and tabs are useless and highly under dosed I'm using a tonic tincture extract. Have used it about 10 times since i discovered it for 2 years ago the healing benefits is what impressed me the most I strained my hamstrings 2 times recovery time from that is usually 2months. Healed up in 2 weeks after the injury and I was already training them the next week: Noticed that it was very god for the joints, got better skin, better libido, energy, recovery, god sleep but no increase in hunger witch I got from the MK677
 
cheeky1

cheeky1

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
those sprays and tabs are useless and highly under dosed I'm using a tonic tincture extract. Have used it about 10 times since i discovered it for 2 years ago the healing benefits is what impressed me the most I strained my hamstrings 2 times recovery time from that is usually 2months. Healed up in 2 weeks after the injury and I was already training them the next week: Noticed that it was very god for the joints, got better skin, better libido, energy, recovery, god sleep but no increase in hunger witch I got from the MK677
What are you using? Is it otc or a herbal prep?
I haven't tried the cheap ebay sprays, only LG Sciences spray, which had a decent dose (11.7?) but terrible delivery system. CLOGGED every time. Some benefit felt with repair & recovery, but I chugged from the bottle & finished it in about 2 weeks, so my dose was pretty high.

I also use & have used Pure Solutions Pure IGF. After a lot of digging it appeared to be a product pro sports people used, though not endorsed for obvious reasons. Yes, that is hearsay, settle down. Gave it a go myself & can attest to what Lexonis says. The 5mg dose was insufficient for me, I do more like 10mg 2x daily. The higher dosed versions would be more desirable, but i'm reluctant to drop that much coin on it at the moment.
My sister also took the 5mg version 1 - 2x daily after moving her family internationally & being stressed to the hilt, and she felt an improvement in well being & energy.

I also found it accompanied Follidrone well, very well in fact. I'll be keen to test it again on a 677 run, or osta, see if there's a noticeable difference with the SARM.
 
AndroRage

AndroRage

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
those sprays and tabs are useless and highly under dosed I'm using a tonic tincture extract. Have used it about 10 times since i discovered it for 2 years ago the healing benefits is what impressed me the most I strained my hamstrings 2 times recovery time from that is usually 2months. Healed up in 2 weeks after the injury and I was already training them the next week: Noticed that it was very god for the joints, got better skin, better libido, energy, recovery, god sleep but no increase in hunger witch I got from the MK677
What's the product name?
 
supersoldier

supersoldier

She thinks my traps'rrrr sexy!
Awards
1
  • Established
If Deer Antler Velvet is good enough for Ray Lewis then it's good enough for the gander :lol: . But in all seriousness, I've been tossing the idea of running MK-677 with my test cycle around for a couple of weeks, I'm glad I found this thread. I read an article that would lead you to believe that MK-677 doesn't cause desensitization, and that cortisol and prolactin are only slightly elevated from baseline during week 1--after which they revert to baseline. Admittedly this article comes from a site that sells the product and doesn't cite sources, but it also mentions that other products that they also sell will cause these unwanted effects (maybe wishful thinking but possibly pointing towards neutrality vs. bias{??}). I won't link it because I'm not 100% up to date on the forum rules here lol, but I'll quote it for you guys to read...

Also I see that this thread was started a few years ago and that some of the earlier posts mention sublingual...is sublingual necessary or is the consensus now that MK-677 has a decent oral bioavailability?

P.S. Dr. D your phone seems to be broken :p

MK-677 – ‘The Best Growth Hormone Secretagogue?’

by Mike Arnold

As bodybuilders, we tend to take an interest in any drug which promises to move us one step closer to realizing our goals. Whether the claims are big or small, most new PED’s are welcomed into the fold with a certain degree of excitement and expectation, at which point they are used, analyzed, and ultimately judged as either worthwhile or worthless.

Over the last 50 years, we have seen no shortage of performance enhancers come our way. Some of these turned out to be duds and were quickly rejected, while others withstood the test of time and joined the classics as a permanent fixture within the PED landscape. But once every now and then something special comes along; something which causes people to re-think their approach to drug use and in the process, changes the way the game is played. Often, these drugs form the foundation, or core of our PED program, around which everything else is based.

The most glorified of these is growth hormone. Surrounded by a certain mystique, GH has often been credited with providing near magickal effects, with everyone from bodybuilders to life extensionists singing its praise. However, its high price tag and an unreliable blackmarket have established it as somewhat of a novelty drug, cementing its status as a PED reserved for the affluent and bodybuilding elite.

Although unaffordable to most, the majority of competitive bodybuilders view growth hormone as a necessary stepping stone in their evolutionary journey toward physical perfection. This has caused some to make unreasonable concessions, even to the point of financial irresponsibility. Others simply go without, hoping to one day make it a part of their program. Unfortunately, using just 6-7 IU per day will cost the average individual about $400 per month—enough to make a decent car payment.

We all know bodybuilding is a really cool sport, but it can also be damn expensive, with lots of people never coming anywhere close to achieving their full potential simply because they can’t afford to live the lifestyle necessary to make it happen. Food, gym membership fees, supplementation, contest expenses, and sometimes even things like physical therapy, chiropractic care, and deep tissue massage may be required in order for one to be their best…and this doesn’t even include drugs, which can be a massive expense all by itself!

While growth hormone releasing agents are not yet capable of replacing very large doses of exogenous GH, when using the right compounds at the right dosages, I have seen lab work from individuals whose IGF-1 levels (the most accurate method of determining GH levels within the body) reached the equivalent of at least an 8 IU daily dose of growth hormone. Furthermore, these results were achieved at a fraction of the cost of exogenous GH. Of all the various GH elevating drugs at our disposal, I find MK-677 to be the most fascinating. There are several things which set MK-677 apart from other GH releasers, but first, what exactly is MK-677?

Technically, MK-677 is not a GH peptide at all, but a selective androgen receptor modulator (S.A.R.M). Most people, when they think of S.A.R.M’s, tend to think of steroid-like drugs such as Ostarine or S4, but S.A.R.M’s aren’t limited to steroid mimetics alone. Rather, they can have a wide range of effects in the body, serving as fat burners (GW-501516), muscle builders (LGD-4033), and in the case of MK-677, GH elevating agents.

One of the most basic differences between GH peptides and MK-677 is its oral bioavailability. While most of those who use AAS and other bodybuilding drugs aren’t really bothered by needles, it’s always nice when a drug can be swallowed rather than pinned. It’s just easier and more convenient. Obviously, for the needle averse, this would be viewed as a significant benefit. In addition, it only needs to be taken once per day, due to its long active-life within the body. Among the various GH peptides, only CJC-1295 DAC has the ability to be dosed this infrequently, while the majority must be used 3-5X per day in order to keep GH levels elevated for a decent period of time. Although short duration GH peptides can certainly be effective, even die-hard bodybuilders have to admit this gets to be a pain in the ass, especially when using compounds that need to be timed around meals (elevated blood glucose levels can impair the effectiveness of some GH peptides). With MK-677, a once per day oral dose delivers maximum effects, with additional doses providing no further benefit.

Another noteworthy benefit of MK-677 is that it doesn’t result in desensitization. Many GH peptides, if used chronically, will cause desensitization within a short period of time. To what degree will vary depending on the compound employed, but some of them, such as Hexarelin, begin to cause desensitization by the 2nd dose and within a couple weeks is only fractions only a fraction as potent as it was initially. MK-677 exhibits no such downside and in fact, research shows that it can actually become more effective with long-term use. One clinical study revealing an increase in IGF-1 levels of 60% at the 6 month point and 72.9% after 12 months of treatment. Another study peaked at an 89% increase.

As some of you might know, many GH peptides have been demonstrated to increase both cortisol and prolactin levels, neither of which is desirable. But in all fairness, these two hormones are often impacted to only a small degree, with only a couple GH peptides resulting in elevations outside the normal range. Although anywhere within normal is usually considered acceptable and unlikely to cause any issues, it would still be better if they did not increase them at all.

During the first week of treatment, MK-677 causes a slight elevation in both cortisol and prolactin (still within the normal range), but after one week of use, levels revert back to baseline. In terms of unwanted hormonal manipulation, this makes MK-677 a cleaner GH releasing agent than other GH peptides, Ipamorelin aside.

One of the most well known effects of several GH peptides is their ability to stimulate the appetite. As ghrelin mimetics, drugs like GHRP-2 and GHRP-6 can have a profound impact on hunger in most individuals. In this capacity MK-677 is no different. Similar to GHRP-2 and GHJRP-6, MK-677 provides a distinct increase in hunger shortly after administration. However, unlike the above mentioned compounds, this effect is much longer-lasting, sticking around for between 12-24 hours in most cases.

When discussing IGF-1 within the context of muscle growth, most tend to focus on the level of this hormone in the bloodstream, while paying little to no attention to those factors which influence the ability of IGF-1 to do its job. One of these is IGF-1 binding protein 3, or IGFBP-3, for short. While low dosages of MK-677 (5 mg/day) do not increase levels of this protein, normal dosages (25 mg/day and above) do. For many of you reading this, your initial reaction may be to think of this as a negative trait, due to misconceptions surrounding the role of sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) in testosterone metabolism, but the truth is that elevations of IGFBP-3 (as well as SHBG, for that matter) are a good thing.

Let’s use testosterone as an example. Once testosterone has entered the bloodstream, it resides in one of two forms—in either a free or bound state. Free testosterone circulates as is, while bound testosterone is testosterone which has been bound to SHBG. For decades, most people thought, even the medical community, that free testosterone was all that mattered, as bound testosterone was believed to be unusable by the body; held hostage by SHBG. We now know we were wrong, as SHBG is not the enemy after all, but functions as transporter protein, helping to usher testosterone to the receptor site where it can then perform its actions.

In the same way, IGFBP-3 is the main carrier of IGF-1, but IGFBP-3 is more than just a transporter. It also helps prolong the life of IGF-1 in the body. In other words, the more IGFBP-3 present, the better. So, MK-677 not only increases growth hormone and IGF-1 levels, but also IGFBP-3, further potentiating the positive effects of IGF-1 on muscle growth.

Getting back to MK-677’s active life, let’s look at little closer at how this drug increases GH levels. Remaining active for roughly 24 hours, MK-677 works in a pulsatile fashion, causing about a dozen bursts of GH throughout the day. This keeps GH levels elevated for a substantially longer period of time compared to some of the most commonly used GH peptides, such as GHRP-2 or GHRP-6, which only maintain elevated GH levels for around 90 minutes. From a pharmacokinetic standpoint, in terms of duration of action, this makes MK-677 much more similar to exogenous growth hormone than most other GH peptides.

For those of you who have difficulty sleeping, or don’t feel as rested as you should when you wake up in the morning, MK-677 may be able to help. MK-677 has been shown to increase the amount of time spent in stage IV sleep by 50%, while also increasing REM sleep by 20%. In order to understand the significance of this, and its potential effects on recovery and growth, let me briefly walk you through the different stages of sleep.

There are 4 stages of sleep; stage I, II, III, and IV. Stages I is a preparation for the later stages of sleep, in which muscle activity is reduced and eye movement slows. Some people might describe this as the period inbetween wakefulness and sleep, in which the individual is not really coherent, but not yet fully sleep. The individual may be unconscious or may move in and out of consciousness during this stage.

In Stage II eye movement stops and brain waves slow, although an occasional burst of brain activity may occur. Stage III is characterized as by the onset of even slower brain waves called delta waves, which are interspersed with periods of faster brain wave activity. Stage IV is the deepest stage of sleep, in which delta waves are present almost continuously. The final stage of sleep is known as REM sleep. It is this stage in which we dream.

Stage IV, the stage of sleep which MK-677 increases, is when the body deals with the stresses from the previous day, repairing itself physically and recharging its batteries, so to speak. This is when we experience the majority of our recovery and growth and is therefore vitally important to bodybuilders. While REM sleep is less important for muscle growth, it is none the less an important component of the sleep process. Many scientists believe REM sleep plays an important role in cognitive functioning and our overall mental health and wellbeing. In addition to an increase in stage IV and REM sleep, MK-677 has also been shown to improve sleep quality by preventing deviations from the normal sleep cycle.

With so many benefits and its relative affordability, it is not hard to see why MK-677 has exploded in popularity over the last year. Like other GH releasing drugs, MK-677 can be stacked with GH peptides for an even greater effect, increasing levels of growth hormone and IGF-1 far beyond what can be achieved under normal circumstances. For those of you who want to experience the benefits of elevated GH levels, but don’t have the cash, or don’t want to take the risk with blackmarket GH, MK-677 is a viable, clinically proven alternative that is both easy and legal to use.
 
cheeky1

cheeky1

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Awesome, great info. I hadn't read that before. Thanks for putting it up :cool2:
 
DR.D

DR.D

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Fats, quality fats, are intrinsically important for cell wall integrity, keeping free radicals such as bacteria, viruses and other pathogens from entering the cell and inducing a metabolic disturbance - the beginning of cancerous cells. Fats are absolutely essential for good nervous system health and play a major role in effective hormone regulation and excess hormone elimination. Cancer is just one aspect to consider here, there are genetic factors at play also, plus epigenetics (the effect of [immediate] environment on cellular DNA) influencing our bodies ability to operate effectively and efficiently.

Notice how much is being mentioned these days about Alzheimers & AD? I see a correlation between the low-fat diets promoted heavily in the 80's - 90's and the now growing volume of 50-something-year olds being diagnosed with these neuro conditions.

Again, i'd be extremely wary of taking 677 on a calorie restricted diet - carbs yes, fats - definitely not. Besides, any unused fats (from a systems and cell building point of view) will simply be used as energy, particularly as SARMs like 677 & osta induce an increase in the metabolism rate.
Play it safe if considering such a cycle, would be my suggestion. A good tbsp. of raw coconut oil taken 2x daily will go a long way to alleviating concerns and provide a little anti-bacterial boost to the gut too :thumbsup:
You don't have to sell me on the value of good fats, I even use coconut to cook my eggs now! I'm just saying as it pertains to MK or GH manipulation specifically, not sure it's a significant consideration.

But yes, as for discouraging pathogenic oncogenesis plus all the other things you touched on, I do agree it's a sensible dietary inclusion to say the least. (That's a whole topic in and of itself, and I usually try to avoid it in casual discourse to avoid the predicable dissipation.)
 
ZackD89

ZackD89

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
A 1999 study showed that 25 mg daily (in obese guys) decreased total testosterone, but didn't affect free test. The study is titled "Discrepancy between serum leptin values and total body fat in response to the oral growth hormone secretagogue MK-677".

Any thoughts on this? Is it anything to worry about?

Untitled.jpg
 
cheeky1

cheeky1

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
You don't have to sell me on the value of good fats, I even use coconut to cook my eggs now! I'm just saying as it pertains to MK or GH manipulation specifically, not sure it's a significant consideration.

But yes, as for discouraging pathogenic oncogenesis plus all the other things you touched on, I do agree it's a sensible dietary inclusion to say the least. (That's a whole topic in and of itself, and I usually try to avoid it in casual discourse to avoid the predicable dissipation.)
Agreed, fat topic closed, back to 677 :cheers:
 
supersoldier

supersoldier

She thinks my traps'rrrr sexy!
Awards
1
  • Established
A 1999 study showed that 25 mg daily (in obese guys) decreased total testosterone, but didn't affect free test. The study is titled "Discrepancy between serum leptin values and total body fat in response to the oral growth hormone secretagogue MK-677".

Any thoughts on this? Is it anything to worry about?

View attachment 121260
If I read this correctly, mean test in 677 group was 1.7 nmol/l less after 8 weeks; meanwhile mean test in placebo group was 1.8 nmol/l higher in 8 weeks (both vs. baseline obv.). The short answer is: no, it's nothing to worry about whatsoever (based on what I see above alone).
 
supersoldier

supersoldier

She thinks my traps'rrrr sexy!
Awards
1
  • Established
Btw my buddy just ordered some. I'll report whatever info I can gather from his experience here as soon as I have something for you guys.
 
DirtyWilly

DirtyWilly

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
I'm extremely interested in this. Thanks for the data all, keep it coming!

If this stuff really works as well as it seems to, I'm curious as to why there aren't more studies showing positive fat loss?
 
ZackD89

ZackD89

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
If I read this correctly, mean test in 677 group was 1.7 nmol/l less after 8 weeks; meanwhile mean test in placebo group was 1.8 nmol/l higher in 8 weeks (both vs. baseline obv.). The short answer is: no, it's nothing to worry about whatsoever (based on what I see above alone).
I should've posted a link to the study and the result that intrigued/worried me. It says:

"MK-677 treatment reduced serum total testosterone (P < 0.05 vs. placebo) although total testosterone/sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) ratio (an index of free testosterone) was not changed."

The abstract is at ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/10468903/
 
supersoldier

supersoldier

She thinks my traps'rrrr sexy!
Awards
1
  • Established
I should've posted a link to the study and the result that intrigued/worried me. It says:

"MK-677 treatment reduced serum total testosterone (P < 0.05 vs. placebo) although total testosterone/sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) ratio (an index of free testosterone) was not changed."

The abstract is at ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/10468903/
Look at the chart bro, just flip the words around...

"Placebo treatment increased serum total testosterone (placebo>0.05 vs. MK-677)

I'm not trying to be a dick, that's just another way to interpret the chart, sounds nonsensical ;)

There are many factors that go into what your total test # is gonna be on a single blood draw. Also take into consideration the tremendously small sample size of the of both groups, which would only increase the volatility and standard deviation of the data. Collectively, imo, none of this would add any positive or negative impact on my thoughts of MK-677.
 
ZackD89

ZackD89

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Look at the chart bro, just flip the words around...

"Placebo treatment increased serum total testosterone (placebo>0.05 vs. MK-677)

I'm not trying to be a dick, that's just another way to interpret the chart, sounds nonsensical ;)

There are many factors that go into what your total test # is gonna be on a single blood draw. Also take into consideration the tremendously small sample size of the of both groups, which would only increase the volatility and standard deviation of the data. Collectively, imo, none of this would add any positive or negative impact on my thoughts of MK-677.
Interesting point. I guess it's nothing to worry about since T wasn't obviously tanked or anything.
 
sinewave3

sinewave3

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Ok, read this whole thread. MK 677 is really interesting and I am subbed for more info/experiences.

Seems most run it at 20-25 mg daily. Some report that 2 on/1 off or maybe 5 on/2off could be effective. Anyone have any experience?
 
StanleyG

StanleyG

Active member
Awards
0
This is one I have been watching closely. I see nothing to be alarmed about in this study . I think the 5 on 2 off might be the way to go as it seem like if run continuously it loses its effectiveness. 5 on 2 off may prevent this.
 

muscle inc.

Member
Awards
0
I just finished my first week @25mg per day. Hunger is up and sleep pattern has changed. Seem to sleep deeper with vivid dreams, but wake up a couple times through night then fall back into deep sleep. Have been a little more tired than usual throughout the day, definitely need my caffeine.

The biggest thing has been my weight though. Started at 205lbs. First thing this morning before eating or drinking anything was 212lbs. Last night before bed was 215lbs. I'm really blowing up on this stuff, I guess water retention/bloat. Might lower dosage and try to figure out if it's my diet or what.
 

muscle inc.

Member
Awards
0
Pretty sure the study's show continuous rise in gh and igf over long term (6mos.-1year) with every day dosing at 25mg.
 
Rocket3015

Rocket3015

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
I just finished my first week @25mg per day. Hunger is up and sleep pattern has changed. Seem to sleep deeper with vivid dreams, but wake up a couple times through night then fall back into deep sleep. Have been a little more tired than usual throughout the day, definitely need my caffeine.

The biggest thing has been my weight though. Started at 205lbs. First thing this morning before eating or drinking anything was 212lbs. Last night before bed was 215lbs. I'm really blowing up on this stuff, I guess water retention/bloat. Might lower dosage and try to figure out if it's my diet or what.
I had so much problem with water retention I had to discontinue use, I was advised to Keep Carbs and salt very low. I have not tried that but will give it another shoot someday !
 

muscle inc.

Member
Awards
0
I had so much problem with water retention I had to discontinue use, I was advised to Keep Carbs and salt very low. I have not tried that but will give it another shoot someday !
Well I will let you know how it goes and if any changes I make help. I am determined and going to stick it out lol. Going to add lgd when I get it from Olympus.
 
Rocket3015

Rocket3015

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
Well I will let you know how it goes and if any changes I make help. I am determined and going to stick it out lol. Going to add lgd when I get it from Olympus.
My fingers got so swelled I could not bend them !!
 
sinewave3

sinewave3

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
My fingers got so swelled I could not bend them !!
Wow! That's a lot of water! Sounds like there is a bit on average but not that much, according to my online research.
 
cheeky1

cheeky1

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
I had so much problem with water retention I had to discontinue use, I was advised to Keep Carbs and salt very low. I have not tried that but will give it another shoot someday !
Interesting. You think this is hormonal or simply a by-product of the processes involved?
I wonder if running a diuretic alongside would alleviate some of this fluid retention?

My MK Ultra from BSL is due any day now. I want to utilise it somewhere in my PCT following an 8 week dbol run. I've got a heap of pct options available to me incl osta, so I think I might have a bit of fun & start a new thread, list all of what I have & let the guys tell me what they think would work well & what they'd like to see run.
 

muscle inc.

Member
Awards
0
Interesting. You think this is hormonal or simply a by-product of the processes involved?
I wonder if running a diuretic alongside would alleviate some of this fluid retention?

My MK Ultra from BSL is due any day now. I want to utilise it somewhere in my PCT following an 8 week dbol run. I've got a heap of pct options available to me incl osta, so I think I might have a bit of fun & start a new thread, list all of what I have & let the guys tell me what they think would work well & what they'd like to see run.
Well if your MK is legit you will become hungry as hell so it should be easy to keep your calories up in pct to help keep gains. However I wouldn't just utilize it in pct. From my research it should be run three months minimum. Most of the benefits of increased gh happen over time. Hunger and sleep come immediately.
 
cheeky1

cheeky1

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Well if your MK is legit you will become hungry as hell so it should be easy to keep your calories up in pct to help keep gains. However I wouldn't just utilize it in pct. From my research it should be run three months minimum. Most of the benefits of increased gh happen over time. Hunger and sleep come immediately.
No reason it won't be legit - ordered from Strong.
I was of the understanding that shorter lengths of approx. 4 weeks were preferred due to toxicity and ineffectiveness as the body becomes accustomed to it? There's a few schools of thought as to ED dosing vs 5/2 etc. I expect for an extended run the 5/2 would be a better option then?

Osta made me hungry...dbol made me hungry...677 gonna make me hungry...I need an intravenous feed bag when i'm sleeping!! :food:

Either way, i'll be needing an 8-12 week break post cycle, so plenty of play time in there :banana:
 
DirtyWilly

DirtyWilly

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Everything I've read on MK-677 so far is that it takes a few weeks to months to hit peak levels of GH. There's some mention of MK-677 becoming less effective over time, but it looks like GH still rises. Not very clear.

I've seen a bit of information claiming that bodybuilders taking GH at the end of their cycle, but still on cycle, retained the most gains. There's a synergistic effect of using anabolics + GH you don't want to miss out on. I would only imagine increased GH would be extremely protective during PCT, but there's not much on using it PCT right now.

I've never tried either of these compounds, just my arm-chair advice.
 

Similar threads


Top