low dose of clomid

[dinoiii]

ATD cured my delayed gyno. I am very serious. And honest. Can you say the same?

YAWN!

I'm sorry, did I catch your name?

Please don't spread this nonsensical crap to innocent people looking on who may actually think this to be true and use it with confidence only to fall short of expectation.


D_

 

[Ziquor]

Herbal AIs - hmmmm...I3C holds mild AI properties, but still I don't think herbal standards are up to par enough yet to call it a day with them alone, but I am not adverse to using them as adjuncts.

SAMe possess some AI properties (alongside liver protectant aid, etc...), Vitamin D possesses some AI properties, but again, I am unsure I think these latter two shouldn't be used almost universally year round per se.


D_

No doubt about that.

I'd like to see more research done on high ligand flax oil for estrogen support as it seems it could potentially be a bit more potent than resveratrol & I3C in it's SERM-like properties as far as receptor affinity goes. (IF resveratrol even has any notable effects on estrogen modulation).

 

[Cerberus]

YAWN!

I'm sorry, did I catch your name?

Please don't spread this nonsensical crap to innocent people looking on who may actually think this to be true and use it with confidence only to fall short of expectation.


D_

dinoiii,

Do you have an easy method for us to determine what route we should take in regards to what we should be doing DURING cycle, and what we should be doing AFTER?

Is there articles you have written that would be understandable to us lay people to better prepare ourselves? I'm very interested in your thought processes.

 

[ImJ2x]

YAWN!

I'm sorry, did I catch your name?

Please don't spread this nonsensical crap to innocent people looking on who may actually think this to be true and use it with confidence only to fall short of expectation.


D_

And your diagnosis would have been: "It's not gyno that's causing the painful, lactating lump behind your nipple. There's no such thing as delayed gyno"
And your prognosis would have been: "Full recovery, no matter what you do."
And your prescription would have been: "Nothing needed, other than time. It will spontaneously heal itself."
And your advice to me if I decided to try Superdrol again: "Don't worry about PCT. I'll prescribe something just for your peace of mind; but the truth is, you'll recover just fine, without complications, on your own."
This is not putting words into your mouth. This is gathered from your previous posts in this topic.

 

[crazyfool405]

Herbal AIs - hmmmm...I3C holds mild AI properties, but still I don't think herbal standards are up to par enough yet to call it a day with them alone, but I am not adverse to using them as adjuncts.

SAMe possess some AI properties (alongside liver protectant aid, etc...), Vitamin D possesses some AI properties, but again, I am unsure I think these latter two shouldn't be used almost universally year round per se.


D_

not only I3C, but bromo, 6oxo, ATD, 3-OHAT, Trans-Res, Genistein, Diadzen, and herbal test boosters , Trib Alatus ect...

 

[Ziquor]

not only I3C, but bromo, 6oxo, ATD, 3-OHAT, Trans-Res, Genistein, Diadzen, and herbal test boosters , Trib Alatus ect...

Many of those aren't herbal supplements bud. Some are steroids.

 

[crazyfool405]

Many of those aren't herbal supplements bud. Some are steroids.

when i said what do you about herbal (I3C, Genistein, Trib alatus)

OTC AIs (bromo, Oxo, ATD, 3-OHAT, formestane) steroidal AIs share the same basic andro backbone. but not actually steroids, unless in HIGH amounts.

i should have clarified.

 

[dinoiii]

And your diagnosis would have been: "It's not gyno that's causing the painful, lactating lump behind your nipple. There's no such thing as delayed gyno"
And your prognosis would have been: "Full recovery, no matter what you do."
And your prescription would have been: "Nothing needed, other than time. It will spontaneously heal itself."
And your advice to me if I decided to try Superdrol again: "Don't worry about PCT. I'll prescribe something just for your peace of mind; but the truth is, you'll recover just fine, without complications, on your own."
This is not putting words into your mouth. This is gathered from your previous posts in this topic.

Perhaps if you were as well-read on me as you claim to be, you'd understand I think Superdrol and associated clones to be complete garbage then.

As for the other stuff you have commented on, I cannot cure idiocy. But ATD probably can. My comments to you appearing in any blatant way as you have would probably have included a long walk and short peer, but again, you are well-versed in my thoughts as well, so it is likely best you don't come my way. I have little time nor patience for this.


D_

 

[Disturbed]

I "picked up weights" more than 30 years ago. I speak from personal experience. And I absolutely assure you I suffered delayed gyno twice. And absolutely guarantee you it was handled very effectively with ATD. I don't claim it will work equally for everyone, but it certainly worked for me.
And by the way, you will never "evaluate" me. I have been so decidedly unimpressed with your postings on this forum, that it has made me question if you are actually who you claim to be. There's an old saying ya'll may be familiar with: "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck." "Doctor" my ass -- quack quack.

I think I will continue to listen to a medical doctor who has written several articles about PCT with references rather than some random guy who just talks about his own personal experience.If you do a search for discounted anabolics you can find dr D's PCT articles.

 

[Kristofer68SS]

And you, sir, may be brain dead.
I dare you to cycle some Super, without any PCT whatsoever, and see how things turn out...

yeah. Im the one thats brain dead.

Zero superdrol cycles under this belt, bro.

 

[Kristofer68SS]

Wow, please point me to this data - VERY interesting.

you are much smarter than that Z.

Where the hell would i get that data?

I know when SD first came out, ALOT of guys around my area ran it with ZERO pct.

I kept in touch with quite a few of them. I know none got gyno, or admitted it. Recovery, well without bloodwork, who knows...........Shite, even with bloodwork who knows.

As always Z, its a pleasure.

 

[Ziquor]

you are much smarter than that Z.

Where the hell would i get that data?

I know when SD first came out, ALOT of guys around my area ran it with ZERO pct.

I kept in touch with quite a few of them. I know none got gyno, or admitted it. Recovery, well without bloodwork, who knows...........Shite, even with bloodwork who knows.

As always Z, its a pleasure.

Scary, very scary. There's 2 people on AM that I know (there's more out there I'm sure) that ran SD with no PCT and both suffered testosterone shutdown months later - but didn't really have many symptoms. They found out from decreasing libidos that never bounced back so eventually got bloodwork. One who still had suppressed test levels a year later is now on HRT

 

[Kristofer68SS]

Scary, very scary. There's 2 people on AM that I know (there's more out there I'm sure) that ran SD with no PCT and both suffered testosterone shutdown months later. One who still had supressed test levels a year later is now on HRT

I am not advising NO PCT, thats for sure. Just stating some observations in real world, not just theory.

I really like the approach of advising to just throw the SD in the trash.

 

[Eric Potratz]

One thing PP isn't acknowledging still is the issue I have already mentioned of spontaneous recovery which would be achieved with cessation of a cycle with or without the SERM. This dictates the route parody as expressed by many in this lifestyle. Somehow, I am not apparently getting across the fact that I deal with this on a daily basis, but again - I encourage exploration outside the confines of here on occasion. I know PP is a board sponsor at LB as well and I would anticipate if this to be significant issue, he would join some of the debates in that atmosphere.
D_

Spontaneous recovery? Sure, that’s a great thing and I’m sure it can happen.

However, my original point was to guide users towards Nolvadex instead of Clomid if they insist on using a SERM. [despite the fact that I am not a fan of any SERM’s]

I’m acknowledging the relevant clinical data that shows spikes in LH & Testosterone immediately after tamoxifen therapy, at 20mg/day – compared to clomid which requires at least 50mg/day for the same effect.

-Pp

 

[Eric Potratz]

AND, you should understand that IF something works at the level of the pituitary, it should cause negative feedback into the hypothalamus. What would this happen to say about Nolva? Likely that it isn't producing the effect you think it would - it only speaks about E2 receptors at the level of the hypothalamus, but also androgenic receptors as wrongly pontificated by the study authors and what points out how wrong it is to blindly accept just a study or two and call it a day in the research world.
D_

You say Nolvadex has a negative effect at the hypothalamus?

Any how do you propose this is happening?

-Pp

 

[dinoiii]

You say Nolvadex has a negative effect at the hypothalamus?

Actually, I have said quite the contrary, however, IF Nolva were to be the more efficacious, there WOULD be negative feedback into the hypothalamus.

D_

 

[Eric Potratz]

Actually, I have said quite the contrary, however, IF Nolva were to be the more efficacious, there WOULD be negative feedback into the hypothalamus.

D_

Right, so how would it be causing negative feedback at the hypothalamus?

-Pp

 

[Force of Green]

I have run a PCT with Clomid as my SERM and felt like utter sh*t. I wanted to lay around feeling sorry for myself for weeks until I got off.

I have run 2 PCTs with Toremifene and they have been stellar.

Not sure what the numbers were, but I know I'd not use Clomid again. I also bloated right up on Clomid.

 

[dinoiii]

I have run a PCT with Clomid as my SERM and felt like utter sh*t. I wanted to lay around feeling sorry for myself for weeks until I got off.

I have run 2 PCTs with Toremifene and they have been stellar.

Not sure what the numbers were, but I know I'd not use Clomid again. I also bloated right up on Clomid.

Sounds like a "research chem" rather than pharmaceutical product. This is the problem with what proclamations are. Alas, I will digress but again as has been shown time and again here.

Wow - tell that too to all the females that use this for fertility. Even for that price, they likely would dump the compound if they felt like that - fortunately THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN!

You know, this is one of those things that gives AM a certain reputation at other places which is unfortunate.


D_

 

[dinoiii]

Right, so how would it be causing negative feedback at the hypothalamus?

-Pp

Are you reading what I write or just responding?

The point is I don't agree with Nolva's use either and suggest that the negative feedback NOT happening, would NOT support its higher efficacy when compared to clomid.


D_

 

[ImJ2x]

Perhaps if you were as well-read on me as you claim to be, you'd understand I think Superdrol and associated clones to be complete garbage then.

As for the other stuff you have commented on, I cannot cure idiocy. But ATD probably can. My comments to you appearing in any blatant way as you have would probably have included a long walk and short peer, but again, you are well-versed in my thoughts as well, so it is likely best you don't come my way. I have little time nor patience for this.


D_

So I go to the beach for a few hours (to show off my ATD-cured, gyno-free pecs to the bikini-clad hunnies), only to return to this crappola. As usual, I can't really understand your over-written, underwhelming gibberish. But it almost sounds like you're threatening me. Seriously, doc...
:nono:

 

[Ziquor]

Sounds like a "research chem" rather than pharmaceutical product. This is the problem with what proclamations are. Alas, I will digress but again as has been shown time and again here.

Wow - tell that too to all the females that use this for fertility. Even for that price, they likely would dump the compound if they felt like that - fortunately THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN!

You know, this is one of those things that gives AM a certain reputation at other places which is unfortunate.


D_

Yeah because these 'other' forums you speak of are full rocket scientists HA HA HA HA... wow

All forums have their issues, but AM definitely has some of the most knowledgeable members by far, plus it's 2nd only in size the the ridiculed BB. I can't stand the forums where 1,000's of naive members believe everything they hear. However those forums are good to make money & for marketing though for companies that prey on the naive.

 

[Ziquor]

Are you reading what I write or just responding?

The point is I don't agree with Nolva's use either and suggest that the negative feedback NOT happening, would NOT support its higher efficacy when compared to clomid.


D_

What field are you in exactly that you get to prescribe anabolic steroid and PCT protocols so often?

 

[dinoiii]

What field are you in exactly that you get to prescribe anabolic steroid and PCT protocols so often?

Where did I suggest I prescribed anabolic steroids?

PCT protocols on the other hand are quite different.


D_

 

[dinoiii]

Yeah because these 'other' forums you speak of are full rocket scientists HA HA HA HA... wow

All forums have their issues, but AM definitely has some of the most knowledgeable members by far, plus it's 2nd only in size the the ridiculed BB. I can't stand the forums where 1,000's of naive members believe everything they hear. However those forums are good to make money & for marketing though for companies that prey on the naive.

Again, when you are caught with a match in your hands, only so often could you claim that you are not the arson. bb.com isn't the only place by far.

I've never suggested that AM was the only place with issues, but if this makes people sleep easier at night - again. mob mentality continues - not at all unexpected.


D_

 

[dinoiii]

So I go to the beach for a few hours (to show off my ATD-cured, gyno-free pecs to the bikini-clad hunnies), only to return to this crappola. As usual, I can't really understand your over-written, underwhelming gibberish. But it almost sounds like you're threatening me. Seriously, doc...
:nono:

Keep the dream alive.

Threats,...again (I suppose its easier to deal with it this way rather than deal with the topic at hand) - no time for it as I really could care unless you spread trash which then challenges integrity of others reading along, which you had.

D_

 

[dinoiii]

This thread has gotten significant play-time linkage into other sites already. I'd post the links, but they keep getting ****'d out. Nonetheless, people also have comments about what I am dealing with in interactions with people asking questions here (namely ImJ2X) and noting that you asked the same questions day-in and day-out back then too and when you weren't met with appropriate response (defined as what you wanted to hear), you get quite beligerant (all I can say is - at least you're consistent; how was it you addressed me in that first post again - as an elder, I suppose that should be considered surprising...now, I'm just having fun with ya as it is mildly humorous what I find in signing back in and how contorted your view of the world will be}.

Funny - for a moment, I thought your initial insistence on finding answers to your questions would have prompted actual discussion on the topic, but when one doesn't understand the topic, they resort to trying to take apart the person in question. One would only say that when people are getting this frustrated, you've accomplished task; people have compared this thread to the dinoiii of yesteryear, much more abrasive, ticking off supplement company owners - and still nothing to sell to you all, but one who is called out because of that very fact - I won't sell you bullshit; oh well, keep the hope alive guys.


D_

 

[Kristofer68SS]

Yeah because these 'other' forums you speak of are full rocket scientists HA HA HA HA... wow

All forums have their issues, but AM definitely has some of the most knowledgeable members by far, plus it's 2nd only in size the the ridiculed BB. I can't stand the forums where 1,000's of naive members believe everything they hear. However those forums are good to make money & for marketing though for companies that prey on the naive.

be careful now. hypocrisy does not fit you well Z.

 

[Kristofer68SS]

This thread has gotten significant play-time linkage into other sites already. I'd post the links, but they keep getting ****'d out. Nonetheless, people also have comments about what I am dealing with in interactions with people asking questions here (namely ImJ2X) and noting that you asked the same questions day-in and day-out back then too and when you weren't met with appropriate response (defined as what you wanted to hear), you get quite beligerant (all I can say is - at least you're consistent; how was it you addressed me in that first post again - as an elder, I suppose that should be considered surprising...now, I'm just having fun with ya as it is mildly humorous what I find in signing back in and how contorted your view of the world will be}.

Funny - for a moment, I thought your initial insistence on finding answers to your questions would have prompted actual discussion on the topic, but when one doesn't understand the topic, they resort to trying to take apart the person in question. One would only say that when people are getting this frustrated, you've accomplished task; people have compared this thread to the dinoiii of yesteryear, much more abrasive, ticking off supplement company owners - and still nothing to sell to you all, but one who is called out because of that very fact - I won't sell you bullshit; oh well, keep the hope alive guys.


D_

And,..... the gift of gab only second to mullet.

props to you for a well presented observation.

 

[ImJ2x]

And,..... the gift of gab only second to mullet.

props to you for a well presented observation.

"well presented"?
:stick:

 

[Kristofer68SS]

"well presented"?
:stick:

presented - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

give ol webster a shot sometime. lol

 

[ImJ2x]

BTW, if you're saying that I'm nearly as articulate as Mullet, I'll take that as a compliment. Thanks, brother.

 

[Kristofer68SS]

BTW, if you're saying that I'm nearly as articulate as Mullet, I'll take that as a compliment. Thanks, brother.

I am fairly confident my compliment belongs to D.

Though you can take it as you wish.

 

[ImJ2x]

This thread has gotten significant play-time linkage into other sites already. I'd post the links, but they keep getting ****'d out. Nonetheless, people also have comments about what I am dealing with in interactions with people asking questions here (namely ImJ2X) and noting that you asked the same questions day-in and day-out back then too and when you weren't met with appropriate response (defined as what you wanted to hear), you get quite beligerant (all I can say is - at least you're consistent; how was it you addressed me in that first post again - as an elder, I suppose that should be considered surprising...now, I'm just having fun with ya as it is mildly humorous what I find in signing back in and how contorted your view of the world will be}.

Funny - for a moment, I thought your initial insistence on finding answers to your questions would have prompted actual discussion on the topic, but when one doesn't understand the topic, they resort to trying to take apart the person in question. One would only say that when people are getting this frustrated, you've accomplished task; people have compared this thread to the dinoiii of yesteryear, much more abrasive, ticking off supplement company owners - and still nothing to sell to you all, but one who is called out because of that very fact - I won't sell you bullshit; oh well, keep the hope alive guys.


D_

People talk about J2x on other forums? Awesome. They barely talk about me here...

 

[Kristofer68SS]

People talk about J2x on other forums? Awesome. They barely talk about me here...

not bad.........lol

any drama is better then no drama, right?

 

[ImJ2x]

I think it's appropriate to re-state:
I absolutely did get delayed gyno, and it absolutely was eliminated by ATD. I don't know that it will work for everyone, but it damn sure worked for me. Twice.
And just to explain my reasoning for trying ATD: I needed something immediately, and I knew that ATD was nearly as effective an AI as Letro (which is a highly-regarded gyno fighter). And I knew I could pick up some Novedex at the mall, so I figured it was worth a shot. And it flat-out worked.

 

[crazyfool405]

would it be safe to say delayed gyno is really just estrogen rebound mainly from a SERM used with out an AI? mainly because delayed gyno really doesnt exist as you said

 

[ImJ2x]

would it be safe to say delayed gyno is really just estrogen rebound mainly from a SERM used with out an AI?

According to some people around here, there's no such thing as delayed gyno, but the only SERM I used in PCT was trans-res. (And I did use an AI -- 6oxo.)

 

[crazyfool405]

6oxo isnt all that great, acts more like a serm (but SERMS dont block aromatization) then an AI (which lowers estrogen) because it doesnt lower estrogen, keeps it the same, just blocks aromatization. also doesnt raise or lower SHBG

see what im saying, sounds confusing...

 

[crazyfool405]

6oxo isnt all that great, acts more like a serm (but SERMS dont block aromatization) then an AI (which lowers estrogen) because it doesnt lower estrogen, keeps it the same, just blocks aromatization. also doesnt raise or lower SHBG

see what im saying, sounds confusing...

 

[Ziquor]

Where did I suggest I prescribed anabolic steroids?

PCT protocols on the other hand are quite different.


D_

Then you must have ran / experienced many different cycles and cycle variables, my apologies. Otherwise the rhetoric is useless.

 

[Ziquor]

This thread has gotten significant play-time linkage into other sites already. I'd post the links, but they keep getting ****'d out. Nonetheless, people also have comments about what I am dealing with in interactions with people asking questions here (namely ImJ2X) and noting that you asked the same questions day-in and day-out back then too and when you weren't met with appropriate response (defined as what you wanted to hear), you get quite beligerant (all I can say is - at least you're consistent; how was it you addressed me in that first post again - as an elder, I suppose that should be considered surprising...now, I'm just having fun with ya as it is mildly humorous what I find in signing back in and how contorted your view of the world will be}.

Funny - for a moment, I thought your initial insistence on finding answers to your questions would have prompted actual discussion on the topic, but when one doesn't understand the topic, they resort to trying to take apart the person in question. One would only say that when people are getting this frustrated, you've accomplished task; people have compared this thread to the dinoiii of yesteryear, much more abrasive, ticking off supplement company owners - and still nothing to sell to you all, but one who is called out because of that very fact - I won't sell you bullshit; oh well, keep the hope alive guys.


D_

Did you add it to DA? Therapeutic? Where do you practice and see patients? I assumed Rochester but I guess I was wrong

and still nothing to sell to you all

What about the supplement companies you profit off and help do marketing for, like MAN? Nothing to sell, you're trying to sell an 'internet image' for self profit. Not a bad idea, but let's be honest here.

 

[bioman]

"One would only say that when people are getting this frustrated, you've accomplished task; people have compared this thread to the dinoiii of yesteryear, much more abrasive, ticking off supplement company owners - and still nothing to sell to you all, but one who is called out because of that very fact - I won't sell you bullshit; oh well, keep the hope alive guys."



Nothing to sell..except your own services. Judging by the way you spent your entire weekend on here making rude comments (the real reason people get "frustrated" with you, not because your verbosity is unassailable) you apparently need to troll for patients. Good luck to you in that endeavor, however be advised that AM charges an advertisement fee.

 

[ImJ2x]

Hah!
Yeah, send him a bill...

 

[Royd The Noyd]

I think it's appropriate to re-state:
I absolutely did get delayed gyno, and it absolutely was eliminated by ATD. I don't know that it will work for everyone, but it damn sure worked for me. Twice.
And just to explain my reasoning for trying ATD: I needed something immediately, and I knew that ATD was nearly as effective an AI as Letro (which is a highly-regarded gyno fighter). And I knew I could pick up some Novedex at the mall, so I figured it was worth a shot. And it flat-out worked.

Explain the science behind "delayed" gyno. Because I have a hard time understanding this part of it...

 

[Royd The Noyd]

Then you must have ran / experienced many different cycles and cycle variables, my apologies. Otherwise the rhetoric is useless.

I'd assume your credentials are valid in this discussion as well. Since your asking for his.

 

[Kristofer68SS]

I'd assume your credentials are valid in this discussion as well. Since your asking for his.

waiting. lol

 

[Ziquor]

I'd assume your credentials are valid in this discussion as well. Since your asking for his.

For which comment that I made on which product do you question? And yes, I have experience running cycles.

BS in Psychology
MBA

Would you like a resume?

However no amount of education can replace experience, regardless.

 

[Ziquor]

Explain the science behind "delayed" gyno. Because I have a hard time understanding this part of it...

Numerous people had this issue. But maybe since it might seem illogical in terms of physiology they were just imagining the lumps.

 

[ImJ2x]

Explain the science behind "delayed" gyno. Because I have a hard time understanding this part of it...

I'm not brilliant enough to comment on the "science" of the beast, but the definition of "delayed" gyno is pretty straight-forward. Traditionally, gyno occurs on-cycle (due to highly-aromitizable "wet" compounds, I believe). Delayed gyno is that which appears at some point after the conclusion of your cycle and PCT. I literally woke up one morning lactating (painfully) weeks after I ended PCT.