As supersoldier posted, he is currently on cycle...but if he agrees then his PCT is covered
Chemo
Chemo
I'm not. Pro gives out more free supps than anyone or any company I have ever seen.I am actually shocked and impressed by that.
I agree, methylating really does change the way the product works and it cannot be compared effectively to it's non-methylated hormone.I bet that M 4-OHT is nothing like 4-OHT, in the same way that M 1-T is nothing like 1-T. IMO, looking at M 4-OHT would not tell us anything regarding the original topic.
I have to agree here, great point. Much of this won't soon matter much anyway I guessBesides, lets pretend you could use 4 oht some how for pct, after the ban it will be worse then posessing nolva, so there would be no reason to use it for that purpose to begin with.
I would like to see VPX's product tested. He states that it can be done w/o any scientific proof. I wanna hold him to these statements....Okay say Sldge gets me M4OHT and I combine that with nolva when I come off. If LH recovers, great. We've got a winner. If not, then it would still be like I'm ON cycle, fully suppressed. So then I could switch to 4OHT-Deca with the nolva, and see how that goes. I'd definitely rather prove a product that Sldge is introducing (M4OHT) as a good bridge than a product that VPX pimps. Not that they won't start selling it 2 months later for $160 a bottle anyway . Which one would you guys rather see work anyway? You got a bunch of people that are reluctant to use methyls, and a bunch more that are afraid to dart. I'd like to see the injectable work seeing that if you just come off a 4-6 week methyl cycle you might not wanna bridge with 4 more weeks of another methyl, but I don't think a moderate dose of M4OHT would be that rough on the liver anyway, but that's just speculation. Food for thought.
Chill the fvck out dude. Am I being to harsh on your buddy? Quit being so egotistical. I called him out on it, he couldn't put forth any info. So now I wanna see what he bases his claims on, okay? Is that too much for you to understand bro?Where have you been? You act like this is the first time you've heard these theories, and that Promatrix is the only one with these beliefs.
There you have it fellas. Testing will be done by myself and Sldge starting in about 2 weeks, as this has been a long time in the making. http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11684&highlight=bridge Just keep in mind that this isn't being done just because of what a VPX rep posted on another board.well i know mine is, so we can run the Big D for another week or so, try the m4oht bridge see if that works or not and then try the 4oht deca. personally i think the m4oht is a better idea then trying to find a use for 4oht as a "nolva" type product but that is me.
For the record - YES, it's sterile. As are all the VPX "Cypionate" line products:So can I get a confirmation on whether or not the VPX 4OHT is sterile or not?
With all due respect Mr. Jergo. Please stop quoting statements not said by me. Again, I have done nothing but simply say that 4-OH has a place within a protocol and PCT.I would like to see VPX's product tested. He states that it can be done w/o any scientific proof. I wanna hold him to these statements....
Whatever you do though bro, good luck...
With all due respect Mr. Jergo. Please stop quoting statements not said by me. Again, I have done nothing but simply say that 4-OH has a place within a protocol and PCT.
I am a chemist/researcher. Of course I am backed by science.
When it comes to AAS/PH's, there are many virables to take within account when using such powerful compounds.Within all the layers of protocols (cycles) we must deal with things such as AR receptors,IGF-1,estrogen, cortisol....ect.
Every action has an reaction, So when using any altering compound, one must be smart. this is chemistry.
I never stated to use 4-OH by itself, thus is a false statment.
I simply said that research and studies indicate no supression of HPTA and it is a compound that can be used wisely within any PCT protocol.
It is an androgen and it is still a bridge...yes, but it also has an advantage within smart protocols. All you had to do was ask me and I would have SHOWN you how I use it withn a smart protcol or I would have given some insight into what the Pro athletes use/compound with today.
But since you know more then I, I am sure you own an most excellent physique and win many bodybuilding shows lad...congrats.
As for the 20 people who asked for some samples from VPX (response was overwhelming) please enjoy the products.
I also called the company (VPX) and they will send you some MRP's and some other stuff too.
BTW- I do have "other" sport supplement compaines who I have ties with too. So I am not just "Mr.VPX", but I do like the name now...
warm regards
Pro
Yeah okay, all I said was prove it bro. Nothing else. I did come off like an asshole when I first posted regarding your name. If you read the whole thread in it's entirety, you will see that I acknowledged a few times that I was wrong for doing so.With all due respect Mr. Jergo. Please stop quoting statements not said by me. Again, I have done nothing but simply say that 4-OH has a place within a protocol and PCT.
I am a chemist/researcher. Of course I am backed by science.
When it comes to AAS/PH's, there are many virables to take within account when using such powerful compounds.Within all the layers of protocols (cycles) we must deal with things such as AR receptors,IGF-1,estrogen, cortisol....ect.
Every action has an reaction, So when using any altering compound, one must be smart. this is chemistry.
I never stated to use 4-OH by itself, thus is a false statment.
I simply said that research and studies indicate no supression of HPTA and it is a compound that can be used wisely within any PCT protocol.
It is an androgen and it is still a bridge...yes, but it also has an advantage within smart protocols. All you had to do was ask me and I would have SHOWN you how I use it withn a smart protcol or I would have given some insight into what the Pro athletes use/compound with today.
But since you know more then I, I am sure you own an most excellent physique and win many bodybuilding shows lad...congrats.
As for the 20 people who asked for some samples from VPX (response was overwhelming) please enjoy the products.
I also called the company (VPX) and they will send you some MRP's and some other stuff too.
BTW- I do have "other" sport supplement compaines who I have ties with too. So I am not just "Mr.VPX", but I do like the name now...
warm regards
Pro
I simply said that research and studies indicate no supression of HPTA and it is a compound that can be used wisely within any PCT protocol.
It is an androgen and it is still a bridge...yes, but it also has an advantage within smart protocols.
I hear what you're saying big, but at the least, we just wanna see some studies proving that it has no ill-effect on the HPTA like he and others claim....The thing with this type of debate is that there is too many variables. Age, weight, AAS experience etc.....the list could go on and on.......There is not going to be one right answer. One person may be able to incorporate OHT into PCT while others may not. M-1-T **** some people down while others feel like Peter North on it.
If this is true then advice that advocates 4OHT as part of PCT should not be handed out to everyone.The thing with this type of debate is that there is too many variables. Age, weight, AAS experience etc.....the list could go on and on.......There is not going to be one right answer. One person may be able to incorporate OHT into PCT while others may not. M-1-T **** some people down while others feel like Peter North on it.
You kind of missed my point. Nolva, HCG, and Clomid may all work in the opposite direction for some people. There is not a right answer to this thread. All Pro said was that OHT can be incoporated in a PCT and I have done it with great results. Some people want things set in stone and that will never be in the world of anabolics/chemistry.If this is true then advice that advocates 4OHT as part of PCT should not be handed out to everyone.
. M-1-T **** some people down while others feel like Peter North on it.
Somebody please show me a study that shows this.Nolva, HCG, and Clomid may all work in the opposite direction for some people.
I used a bad example with that comment. Yes, it does supress everyone, but to a certain extent. It varies from person to person. This thread has turned out to be about OHT and it's affect on HPTA. Pro as well as myself think it can be used as a means of PCT while others debate it. The only info I have is from personal use and the blood work done where I work. Pro has alot more inside info than I do. I am not privy to that aspect of it, but I know for the most part what the reusults say.But it shuts down everyone (unless HCG is used).
Its not the feeling that we are debating, its the physiological effects of androgens and it is quite clear in the literature how the body reacts.
You are completly wrong. They work the same in everyone. Its just the degree of effect that is different. Please do not attempt to spin this in your favor and give me the "it works differentlt in other people" because then I will close the thread. That it the most outrageous excuse I've ever heard. All Pro said is that it does not effect the HTPA in a negative way and we want proof. Its simple as that. It goes against every physiological rule and I can tell you for a fact every endocrinologist in the world would laugh at me if I told him/her that statement. I don't think you understand just how outrageous the claim is. Its very simple, stop defending him because you are associated with him and the company. If he's a good guy, fine, I don't doubt that at all. Give us proof or do not post. He made the claim, lets see the proof. Until then, I don't want to see another attempt to spin this in your favor. I'm tired of people dodging the issue.You kind of missed my point. Nolva, HCG, and Clomid may all work in the opposite direction for some people. There is not a right answer to this thread. All Pro said was that OHT can be incoporated in a PCT and I have done it with great results. Some people want things set in stone and that will never be in the world of anabolics/chemistry.
It is human nature dude! It does not take a study for everything. People respond to things diffently to everything.Somebody please show me a study that shows this.
Then post the bloodwork. And don't give me the "its against company policy". If you make the claim, back it up with proof. If not, your case holds no water at all and your credibility with those who you target in this industry will suffer for it. Please do not continue unless you have proof. I will not go aorund in circles and create 5 new pages of "specualtion". If not, it will be closed.I used a bad example with that comment. Yes, it does supress everyone, but to a certain extent. It varies from person to person. This thread has turned out to be about OHT and it's affect on HPTA. Pro as well as myself think it can be used as a means of PCT while others debate it. The only info I have is from personal use and the blood work done where I work. Pro has alot more inside info than I do. I am not privy to that aspect of it, but I know for the most part what the reusults say.
Just ban me then or close the thread!!!!!! You guy's will think you are right despite anything or anyone who dispute you. You and I both know there are too many variables to say that there is one right answer.You are completly wrong. They work the same in everyone. Its just the degree of effect that is different. Please do not attempt to spin this in your favor and give me the "it works differentlt in other people" because then I will close the thread. That it the most outrageous excuse I've ever heard. All Pro said is that it does not effect the HTPA in a negative way and we want proof. Its simple as that. It goes against every physiological rule and I can tell you for a fact every endocrinologist in the world would laugh at me if I told him/her that statement. I don't think you understand just how outrageous the claim is. Its very simple, stop defending him because you are associated with him and the company. If he's a good guy, fine, I don't doubt that at all. Give us proof or do not post. He made the claim, lets see the proof. Until then, I don't want to see another attempt to spin this in your favor. I'm tired of people dodging the issue.
That reply shows a complete lack of understanding about the pharmacological effects of drugs. It is an excuse. If you want to be taken more serisouly, I suggest you rethink your statements. If you don't understand thi, admit it and leave it those who do. If you continue to debate in this fashion you will be asked not to continue.It is human nature dude! It does not take a study for everything. People respond to things diffently to everything.
As I said above..just ban me or close the thread. There are some things that I can't post. Maybe Pro can as he is a little higher up then I am. Take it as a cop out if you want, but AM does not pay my bills.....VPX does.Then post the bloodwork. And don't give me the "its against company policy". If you make the claim, back it up with proof. If not, your case holds no water at all and your credibility with those who you target in this industry will suffer for it. Please do not continue unless you have proof. I will not go aorund in circles and create 5 new pages of "specualtion". If not, it will be closed.
What the **** don't you get? WE WANT PROOF! WE DON"T BELIEVE YOU UNLESS YOU SHOW US OTHERWISE! YOU ARE MAKING CLAIMS THAT GO AGAINST EVERY PHYSIOLOGICAL RULE PERTANING TO ANDROGENS! IT IS APPARENT YOU DO NOT HAVE A CLUE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT BECAUSE YOU CONTINUE TO DANCE AROUND THE ISSUE AND NEVER ANSWER ANYTHING!Just ban me then or close the thread!!!!!! You guy's will think you are right despite anything or anyone who dispute you. You and I both know there are too many variables to say that there is one right answer.
Then don't make you claims at AM and dont' defend Pro's postiion if you can;t back it up. It is clear that the dollar is what your concerned about, not the truth. It most certainly is an excuse. You should have just kept quiet and let pro do the talking then. I will not open this thread unless he's contacts me with some sort of bloodwork and/or study.As I said above..just ban me or close the thread. There are some things that I can't post. Maybe Pro can as he is a little higher up then I am. Take it as a cop out if you want, but AM does not pay my bills.....VPX does.
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