Just stay away from the OHD! I liked the Gangsta as well. Jack just gave me the sterile version. YUM!Easy, fellas. I'm kinda enjoying my Gangsta Test.
In fact, I like all the VPX products I've tried.
My only complaints: 1-Test Cyp is only 50mg/ml
4-HT Cyp is crashed.
Thanks for the kind words bro. However, you should not even begin to insult Promatrix. Dude knows his ****.This dumbass over at anabolic freakz named "promatrix" keeps telling everyone "to use hydroxy test for PCT by itself." And then goes on to say that "how would you like to gain another 4lbs. of muscle on PCT?" How do you like that science?" What a fvcker, people like this are a complete joke...
I'll admit, when everyone was giving VPX a bad rap last year, saying they suck, they're pushing the envelope, etc. I gave them a chance, even went as far as to say that the "haters" were in some sorts hypocrites. Well, today is a different story, these guys are undoubtedley what hte haters have said all along. I'm ashamed I ever supported these false profits.
BS30, I still think you're alright, eventhough I hardly see you post anymore, but I wish you'd try and straighten out these other reps on these boards giving out all of this hurtful information. Someones gonna get hurt one of these days, and the reps are gonna take some heat, no doubt. I don't see why you wouldn't just step in bro, if it were me in that situation, I'd be givin' 'em hell....
No prob, but do you then think that taking VPX's hydroxy test alone for PCT is an intelligent and wise decision that will make recovery successful?Thanks for the kind words bro. However, you should not even begin to insult Promatrix. Dude knows his ****.
I would have to see his post to see what he said. I know he uses 4-HT post cycle along with your normal(nolva, hcg, etc...) and has great results. Not to mention dude is a health freak and has all kind of blood work done.No prob, but do you then think that taking VPX's hydroxy test alone for PCT is an intelligent and wise decision that will make recovery successful?
http://anabolicfreakz.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6004I would have to see his post to see what he said. I know he uses 4-HT post cycle along with your normal(nolva, hcg, etc...) and has great results. Not to mention dude is a health freak and has all kind of blood work done.
Promatrix does not work for VPX. He runs a very large sports nutrition store in S. Fla. He is more than knowledgeable about anabolics. Not to mention he is one of the the top pro's in the U.S. He just so happens to be my next door neighbor. He works with the top guru's in the world and no I do not mean Jack Owoc. You may or may not agree with his ideas, but they are backed by results and blood work.http://anabolicfreakz.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6004
Above is one of them, I kind find a couple others if you'd like. But I was merely trying to say that you guys should chime in and call someone out when needed. Hope you see my point.
This is another post that he said "shameless plug" when he recommended VPX again.Promatrix does not work for VPX. He runs a very large sports nutrition store in S. Fla. He is more than knowledgeable about anabolics. Not to mention he is one of the the top pro's in the U.S. He just so happens to be my next door neighbor. He works with the top guru's in the world and no I do not mean Jack Owoc. You may or may not agree with his ideas, but they are backed by results and blood work.
Another where he offers to send out free VPX samples:oxandrolone at 30 mg daily for 8 weeks is not supressive that much at all, (but can be-person dependent) but precaution is key element here, I would suggest something a bit more anabolic and does allow for HPTA regeneration=4-Hydroxy-test for 30 days PCT.
It will allow one to still gain 3-5 pounds post cycle, man science is so cool.
I recommened HM Gear or VPX (selfish plug
You are funny bro! I guess I put it worng. He does not work for VPX, but he is affiliated with the company. He runs VPX's retail store which carries all brands, not just VPX. He is a mega knowledgeable bro rather you agree with his ideas or not. He does formulate products for VPX as well as other companies.This is another post that he said "shameless plug" when he recommended VPX again.
Another where he offers to send out free VPX samples:
http://anabolicfreakz.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=56952#post56952
Another where he says that he's a sports supp/developer etc.:
http://anabolicfreakz.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=56942#post56942
Bro, if you can still vouch for him and say he's not a VPX rep, then fine, there's not really anything I can do to prove you wrong....But from all the posts I have seen from him, its just kind of hard NOT to think what I thunk. And to thunk what I think what I thought...LOL...
Take 'er easy brutha...
By that measure, then we have to give Saddam Hussein credit, look at all the attention he was able to muster up.
I don't give VPX anything(i.e. money, respect, etc.). They are the bottom feeders of this industry.
With what proof? From most real world experience all I see is people misinterpretting blood tests and do zero follow up lab work which is the true method of confirming recovery.There's plenty of real-world evidence showing that some people incur little to no suppression from OHT, and that they recover just fine while using it.
Thats absolutely ridiculous and irresponsible.No prob, but do you then think that taking VPX's hydroxy test alone for PCT is an intelligent and wise decision that will make recovery successful?
Good point.With what proof? From most real world experience all I see is people misinterpretting blood tests and do zero follow up lab work which is the true method of confirming recovery.
Bump that Promatrix is good people and I wish we had more like him on the boards. He also def knows his **** and the man looks sick. All of his protocols are based around one simple idea, and that's keeping HPTA suppression down to a absolute minimum. His cycles are all based around recovery and health is his main concern, not how much weight he can pack on in 10 weeks. My 2cents, Later JPromatrix does not work for VPX. He runs a very large sports nutrition store in S. Fla. He is more than knowledgeable about anabolics. Not to mention he is one of the the top pro's in the U.S. He just so happens to be my next door neighbor. He works with the top guru's in the world and no I do not mean Jack Owoc. You may or may not agree with his ideas, but they are backed by results and blood work.
If he's recommending Hydroxytest for PCT then its not. He might have good intentions and I have no problem with that, but a PCT protocol that claims Hydroxytest is good for recovery is not healthy at all. Its actually unhealthy.His cycles are all based around recovery and health is his main concern, not how much weight he can pack on in 10 weeks. My 2cents, Later J
Can you post the bloodwork that has follow up recovery 3 months down the road? Thats true bloodwork, not 3 weeks into PCT.You may or may not agree with his ideas, but they are backed by results and blood work.
Who cares. Thats like saying the drug dealer who gives out free samples is doing "good business". It doesn't take a genius to come up with this idea but in the same fashion it doesn't help the industry catering PH's to a younger audience. To me its typical VPX bullshit. Cater PH's to a young audience who are easily influenced and make outrageous claims that can be detrimental to your health. Great business.Gangsta test...........the name is so bad it is great. Good business decision on the name even if the name is catering to the more intellectually inept lifters.
If he's recommending Hydroxytest for PCT then its not. He might have good intentions and I have no problem with that, but a PCT protocol that claims Hydroxytest is good for recovery is not healthy at all. Its actually unhealthy.
Business ethics is a different topic.To me its typical VPX bullshit. Cater PH's to a young audience who are easily influenced and make outrageous claims that can be detrimental to your health. Great business.
i am sure their "legal equivalent" to Winstrol-V will be called "DUBS"
next prohormone? did you not hear about the impending ban? time to liquidate all ph's just like ephedra products.HMMM..... I will run that by the CEO. Just kidding. I already know the name of our next prohormone. Let's just say VPX is going back to it's roots.
The problem is even if it does inhibit estrogen formation, your still in a tug of war because hydroxytest binds to the AR very strongly which WILL cause suppression. Its only 25% less binding affinity than miberlone and your already in a suppressed state. People seem to forget that. Something that is mildy suppressive will be even moreso when your in a suppressed state. Its only maginified.
An how do they come up with HTPA regenerative properites? LH levels? That means nothing unless Leydig cells are actually responding which won't happen when androgens are present. Only thing that can bypass the short and long feedback loop is HCG.
.
1. Then maybe you rethink your strategies becuase its not exactly healthy in the long run. Most people DO come off and try to recover. It speople like this that keep saying its ok and doing extended cycle and bridges won't be a problem in the long run. The make everyone around them think its ok because majority don't understnad it in the first place. Whats the point of adding an androgen in there when its only going to delay recovery and hinder full restoration? The more times you don't fullt recover from an androgen cycle, the harder and more difficult it will become in the long run and could lead to permanent hypogonadism. There are so many better options out there than to to stay on androgens, because thats what he's doing.I agree, but honestly bobo I think were getting away from the main objective of 4oht. You asked to see bloodwork 3 months down the road to show true recovery and yes that would show true recovery once your off everything including nolva, clomid etc and the body is free of all compounds. But, how many of us won't be on another cycle by then. I don't think most of us truly recover to the point in which you speak of until we take an extended time off. For most as soon as time off equals time on there they we go again back on the sauce.
I think it could be used with PCT but not in the traditional way. I view it's "possible" use as maybe aiding in solidifying gains while getting the system going again and on it's way to recovery in conjunction with HCG and nolva. Also I think it can be a useful tool in a cycle in which you'll have a few weeks of clearance time with longer esters when most people use prop or supsension, 4oht could be used which will be easier on the body which will lead to easier recovery. Even the smallest differences matter in PCT. Every little bit of help is welcomed.
Overall I agree with you bobo but I think 4oht does have it's place and can be effective if used correctly. I mainly replied in this thread because of some of the bad mouthing going on about a good bro that has helped so many people with there training and protocols. I ended up in a informative discussion which is the main reason I come onto the boards. Anyway Pro is a good people and true bro's stand up for each other instead of sitting safely out of crossfire. later J
Only because they said it helped recovery. How do they know if they don't do follow up work? Next time I take Dbol I will measure my LH levels during the first week and when they are elevated I will state Dbol helps recovery. THis is basically what they are doing. Instead of making claims that can actually alter someone's health, at least prove it first. I mean if your a well respected member your opinion can serisouly effect someone's health, in the WRONG way. This happens all to often on 99% of the anabolic boards and I wish the majority of these people actually took the time to understand what they are saying instead of making broad assumptions that can negatively effect peoples health.I agree, but honestly bobo I think were getting away from the main objective of 4oht. You asked to see bloodwork 3 months down the road to show true recovery J
Amen....this is what I said how many posts back. Thats one thing. Then you got other moderators over at "'ology" still telling people to take B6 for progesterone induced gyno. But, since their moderators, I guess they know what they're talking about.3. You can stand up for him all you want but good friends also tell each other that what they are saying is completely idiotic. I don't blindly accept what he says and the amount of blind loyalty on these boards is astonishing. I'm not saying this is you but people just follow the piper much to easily. In no way does adding an androgen to PCT, even with HCG, constitute a healthy protocol. He could have helped a million people but when he suggests protocols that are unhealthy, he will be critivized. Being a good "bro" doesn't give him a free ride here at all. I expect the same for me if the same thing happened. If talk complete bullshit, tell me, don't follow.
1. Then maybe you rethink your strategies becuase its not exactly healthy in the long run. Most people DO come off and try to recover. It speople like this that keep saying its ok and doing extended cycle and bridges won't be a problem in the long run. The make everyone around them think its ok because majority don't understnad it in the first place. Whats the point of adding an androgen in there when its only going to delay recovery and hinder full restoration? The more times you don't fullt recover from an androgen cycle, the harder and more difficult it will become in the long run and could lead to permanent hypogonadism. There are so many better options out there than to to stay on androgens, because thats what he's doing.
2. The more I see people going away from "traditional" methods the more I see how much they do not understand what is actually occuring. They think they can trick the body and find a short cut. They think the body works by pure cause and effect. It doesn't work that way. The HRT clinics are filled with them. Being easier on the body doesn't mean anything when it comes to HTPA recovery. Your right in the smallest differences matter during PCT. Adding an androgen is not a small difference, its a BIG difference. Plus you don't want HCG during post cycle anyway because its acutally the only time that it can effect the long feedback loop to the HTPA. So adding an androgen to that regiment makes even less sense. I don't think it has its place in any PCT regiment at all. It makes zero sense.
3. You can stand up for him all you want but good friends also tell each other that what they are saying is completely idiotic. I don't blindly accept what he says and the amount of blind loyalty on these boards is astonishing. I'm not saying this is you but people just follow the piper much to easily. In no way does adding an androgen to PCT, even with HCG, constitute a healthy protocol. He could have helped a million people but when he suggests protocols that are unhealthy, he will be critivized. Being a good "bro" doesn't give him a free ride here at all. I expect the same for me if the same thing happened. If talk complete bullshit, tell me, don't follow.
1. Sure you could use it that way but why? I can find a number of better compounds to use with HCG than Hydroxytest. But there is nothing run with that if thats what you want to do. IT does have a very high RBA so you might want to consider that to. Its not exactly a weak substance.Bobo I understand what your saying but no where did I say to use HCG for PCT. I said to use it while on the 4oht. For me if I use it, 4oht will be used while other compounds are clearing out in conjunction with HCG, instead of using prop, suspension or some methylated oral. I don't plan on nor do I recommend using it as PCT. Also the man is completely against bridges because he stresses your either off or on and recovery is the most important thing. Also recovery is my main concern and I'd like to know how many times the question has been asked on this and any other board about how long between cycles and the advice by MODS here and every other board was Time off should equal Time ON.
Also I'm not following the piper bro this topic has been discussed with minds far greater then mine mainly Author L Rea. On another board he talks about how he uses it very successfully as a part of PCT all the time. And that man does bloodwork on his "trainees" Can I get you that bloodwork, probably not because he's a busy individual. But no reason for him to lie he doesn't own or sell these products. He has nothing to gain from it.
Also Jergo don't jump back into this conversation and say "see I told you so" after bobo discussed the topic. That's weak bro.
Whats weak? That I reinforced Bobo's statement with what I had already said? My "Amen" was to bump what I already said in relation to you, or anyone stepping up and telling someone that their wrong when needs be.Bobo I understand what your saying but no where did I say to use HCG for PCT. I said to use it while on the 4oht. For me if I use it, 4oht will be used while other compounds are clearing out in conjunction with HCG, instead of using prop, suspension or some methylated oral. I don't plan on nor do I recommend using it as PCT. Also the man is completely against bridges because he stresses your either off or on and recovery is the most important thing. Also recovery is my main concern and I'd like to know how many times the question has been asked on this and any other board about how long between cycles and the advice by MODS here and every other board was Time off should equal Time ON.
Also I'm not following the piper bro this topic has been discussed with minds far greater then mine mainly Author L Rea. On another board he talks about how he uses it very successfully as a part of PCT all the time. And that man does bloodwork on his "trainees" Can I get you that bloodwork, probably not because he's a busy individual. But no reason for him to lie he doesn't own or sell these products. He has nothing to gain from it.
Also Jergo don't jump back into this conversation and say "see I told you so" after bobo discussed the topic. That's weak bro.
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