Whitedevil stay off the ad hominem attacks.
Thanks for digging this up.This is a quote from D in the other thread that got locked. It's on page 17.
"Let's think about results for a minute. For example, take a compound with a molecular weight of 321 that possesses an episulfide and a hydroxyl function, which are it's two most libel groups in a GC/MS fragmentation. When injected into a testing system (reference my GC/MS tutorial on p.10), what would be the most likely result? The parent less the hydroxyl less the episulfide which would strip a proton with it (320.53-17.01-32.07-1.01=270.45~270) leaving an ion which would resemble the non alcoholic version of DMT (2-ene). Also, imagine that this product is 99+% pure and that the results and logs are stellar by almost all who try it."
LOL..I am taking an ethics class...Whitedevil stay off the ad hominem attacks.
Ahhh! He did explicitly state it! That clears up a lot for me.For those that wonder about the 288 reference, as PA stated:
yes the results for havoc show that the stuff contains a compuond that has a MW of 288. 288 is the correct MW for the methylepistanol (it desulfurizes in the injection port to give 288)
So the compound starts out with a higher MW, but when it desulfurizes in the injection port, it goes to 288.
LOL. I noticed the board shut down.It just got uncharacteristically quiet over at BB with your arrival Kwycke.
Its entirely possible its the same ingredient IIIIFFFFFFFFF, which I don't know, its possible that the Sulfur could leave the parent molecule and the alcohol could stay on, which would give an M+ of 288.So if Epistane has the right stuff --- albeit underdosed --- then what the hell does Havoc have? Even if both products contain the same active, and even if that active is finicky about losing its hydroxyl in GC/MS, why would Havoc consistently yield a MW of 288 and Epistane a MW of 270?
For fvck's sake, what the fvck is in my pills!?
I'm not ACCUSING them of anything. I'm looking at an independent report that says their product has 3.8mg per cap (with an accuracy within 20%). That is looking at the facts in front of me and making a statement. Such that if a cap was to contain 5mg, instead of 10mg, you could double your production.Now, you're accusing them of purposely under-dosing? Will this sh!t never end???
Well, you did what you said you would and that's all that should be expected of you.Luckily my part here is done . I said I'd get the results and post them. I have. In closing (as there is nothing more for me to do at this point), I'd like to tell Neo, poopster and friction to please kiss my white hairy ass. I know we aren't supposed to attack people on here, but you dudes rode my ass for 2 weeks about posting results. I said I'd post them and I did.
Why don't you go start a "bash Mike McCandless" thread if that's what you wanna do.Come on Mike, there are several people who know that this was all about marketing and getting your name in lights. You pretended to be a consumer even though you owned a supplement company. Now, your sitting on top but this could easly go down for you, the result back up Dr.D, if you decide to keep going your going to look petty and unprofessional.
He didn't say purposely.Now, you're accusing them of purposely under-dosing? Will this sh!t never end???
We want to keep pushing. We do not appreciate you trying to keep wasting our time, money, and health, not to mention putting a giant political bullseye on the back of the industry in general. We do not trust you anymore, so don't expect us to accept an explanation that requires trusting you. And if you alienate us by shadowboxing around a straight answer to the legitimate concerns we have, then our lack of patronage alone will be enough to bury you.
Don't say you weren't warned.
I think a few apologies are in order.Originally Posted by juggernaut333
didnt it say within 20%?
how does a lab even get a standard of pure legit stuff to test to?thats an honest question as im wondering?threats,anger,condemnation..how very VERY 'christian' of you.i am sickened by hypocritical 'christian' or other religious bull****ters such as yourself.
so its turn the other cheek,or an eye for an eye,depending on the situation eh?jesus would ***** slap u
in regards to the majority of your post as a whole.
If yeahright gives the thumbs up... :run:Why don't you go start a "bash Mike McCandless" thread if that's what you wanna do.
Yeah, from Dr. D to me, for starters. Never once have I attacked him. I'm just a long time customer who wanted to know that I was getting what I payed for. When I asked, I was essentially given the "got search" answer. That's downright rude.I think a few apologies are in order.
some people just like to argue, being a customer doesnt excuse you from basic ethical behaviour, no one owes you anything. Before you demand anything review the relationship you entered into, then switch roles with the other side of the coin.Yeah, from Dr. D to me, for starters. Never once have I attacked him. I'm just a long time customer who wanted to know that I was getting what I payed for. When I asked, I was essentially given the "got search" answer. That's downright rude.
I refuse to apologize for demanding answers and accountability for the products I buy. Ever.
Pa alledgedly got 270 for epi and 288 for the others. i think.the questions i want answered are:
1. do havoc and epistane contain the same substance
2. do havoc and epistane both contain a legitamate 10mgs of the substance per capsule
3. why is PA and 1fast getting a MW of 288 and IBE getting 270?
4. who is at fault, or lying
5. are we taking a safe substance
.
I would just like to add that you don't get a COA for your creatine, but demand it for this now? One could easily be contaminated as another.some people just like to argue, being a customer doesnt excuse you from basic ethical behaviour, no one owes you anything. Before you demand anything review the relationship you entered into, then switch roles with the other side of the coin.
That still leaves the question, why did he say epi was the one that was off as far as M+ goes?Pa alledgedly got 270 for epi and 288 for the others. i think.
I'd prefer not. I have my own opinions about a lot of this and my own speculation about people's motives. However, nothing good comes from the personality trashing threads. From what I can see, MM did what he said he would do and has even acknowledged that Kwyck might be right in saying that MM's tests prove that Dr.D was right.If yeahright gives the thumbs up... :run:
Bodybuilding.com Forums - View Single Post - Epistane Testing ResultsTypiclly, with methylated compounds of this nature, the C-17 alcohol sticks around to show the MW, such as M1T, superdrol, etc. But, when we sold 4-AD, it is more common to see dehydration of this sort (at C-3 and C17).
IBE jumped the gun when they sent that letter.
Okay fine... but I get to make one post with much douchebagery.I'd prefer not. I have my own opinions about a lot of this and my own speculation about people's motives. However, nothing good comes from the personality trashing threads. From what I can see, MM did what he said he would do and has even acknowledged that Kwyck might be right in saying that MM's tests prove that Dr.D was right.
You don't have to like people but you do have to be civil to them. That's a courtesy we all practice in meatspace but it's too easy to leave it behind when we enter cyberspace.
Well, that could be the case. Def. have to look into that. Doesn't mean 270 isn't gonna happen, but then carcinogen did say that they tested two compounds under the same conditions.
BWAHAHAHAH! And do de puts din da cottun!Okay fine... but I get to make one post with much douchebagery.
Now that Mike owns Primaforce, maybe they can afford to put cotton in the bottles to fill the empty space. I did my own independent lab testing of a few (empty) caps of Elastamine and Cissus 40%, and they were found to have a MW of ZERO and 0.0001% of the label claimed active. :duel:
Nab - where the f' you been? You come up in herrrrrre talkin' dihydrogen monoxide and sheeeet?The same way you can calculate the expected MW of dihydrogen monoxide without having any on hand.
Alot of jibberish to me here lol. Anyone really clear about the whole epi thing? Is it what it claims to be and a safe working product?
You hot hunk of man meat.Well, that could be the case. Def. have to look into that. Doesn't mean 270 isn't gonna happen, but then carcinogen did say that they tested two compounds under the same conditions.
Blaaaaah. I have to do some homework soon. Gonna pry myself away from comp in a min.
Def. gonna talk to the ochem docs around campus now. I actually got stumped pretty good with a really simple concept, the 17b-OH was protected by the 17a-Me, so it didn't leave according to carcinogen.Well, that could be the case. Def. have to look into that. Doesn't mean 270 isn't gonna happen, but then carcinogen did say that they tested two compounds under the same conditions.
Blaaaaah. I have to do some homework soon. Gonna pry myself away from comp in a min.
this was your response to something Dr. D said, which wasnt even directed at you:Promulgated:
I refuse to go off on a tangent about the ethics of my conduct. I demanded an explanation for a perceived discrepancy between the Epistane's label and RTD's test results, under threat of a boycott. Let it be known that I will never, ever think that what I did was wrong, and that's my final answer on the matter.
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