Enclomiphene

[Invulnerabledr]

So over the months I’ve dialed in my hormones for TRT. I went from 200mg test down to 75mg test a week and literally got bigger. My T level on 75mg is now 800 on the trough (6 days after inj) and over 1000 a day after injection.

My docs recommended me enclomiphene to switch on and off for a while. They told me that the Enclomiphene could get my levels up to 600-800 where I’m at now. I’ve seen some blood work showing some high numbers on enclomiphene. My question is, if enclomiphene got me to 600-800ng/dl (where I’m at now with a low dose TRT protocol) would I still be able to hold onto my muscle/strength. I mean test is test right? What would be the diff in results if it was cyp or enclomiphene if they both were to have me at the same ng/dl testosterone level? I also take a small dose of a.i weekly too

 

[KvanH]

No, there's no difference gym performance wise between same levels of endogenous and exogenous test levels. But I don't know how much the fluctuation of endogenous test levels have an effect vs the more stable TRT levels. I've also gotten the impression, that with TRT, free T levels tend to be higher, than natty and IIRC, SERMs can also increase SHBG and thus lower free T.

Why does your doc want you to switch back and forth with test and Enclo? That sounds weird to me.

 

[Wobmarvel]

I'm currently trying enclomiphene along with a tongkat based natural test booster. Some say that tongkat lowers shbg so could free up more of the test boosted from enclomiphene

 

[KvanH]

I'm currently trying enclomiphene along with a tongkat based natural test booster. Some say that tongkat lowers shbg so could free up more of the test boosted from enclomiphene

What's your Enclo dosing protocol and do you plan on getting blood work on it?

 

[Invulnerabledr]

No, there's no difference gym performance wise between same levels of endogenous and exogenous test levels. But I don't know how much the fluctuation of endogenous test levels have an effect vs the more stable TRT levels. I've also gotten the impression, that with TRT, free T levels tend to be higher, than natty and IIRC, SERM's can also increase SHBG and thus lower free T.

Why does your doc want you to switch back and forth with test and Enclo? That sounds weird to me.

theyre being stupid paranoid about my hematocrit. My blood always gets thick no matter what dose of TRT I’m on. So they’re being paranoid when I can just simply go donate (which is what I always do). But they keep wanting to halt my treatment or make me stop and go on enclomiphene. They overly freak out about the hematocrit thing. So I might have to get a new doc cause they stress me out with the whole wanting to stop treatment over something so insignificant. So I was wondering if they do stop my treatment, if enclomiphene will hold me over until I find a new doc. I’m only on 75mg of test one inj a week right now and my trough (6 days after injection) is still 811ng/dl. So I’d imagine Enclomiphene would probably put me at similar levels? Or maybe I’m wrong.

I'm currently trying enclomiphene along with a tongkat based natural test booster. Some say that tongkat lowers shbg so could free up more of the test boosted from enclomiphene

Most of the studies also show that SHBG rise from enclomiphene likely comes from the rise in estrogen. So if you take an A.I with the Enclomiphene I wonder how that would play out.

 

[KvanH]

theyre being stupid paranoid about my hematocrit. My blood always gets thick no matter what dose of TRT I’m on. So they’re being paranoid when I can just simply go donate (which is what I always do). But they keep wanting to halt my treatment or make me stop and go on enclomiphene. They overly freak out about the hematocrit thing. So I might have to get a new doc cause they stress me out with the whole wanting to stop treatment over something so insignificant. So I was wondering if they do stop my treatment, if enclomiphene will hold me over until I find a new doc. I’m only on 75mg of test one inj a week right now and my trough (6 days after injection) is still 811ng/dl. So I’d imagine Enclomiphene would probably put me at similar levels? Or maybe I’m wrong.

There's no way of knowing, it's try and see. 12.5 mg of Enclo put me close to 900 ng/dl, whereas my baseline has been 400-500 in latest blood draw. But since you are on TRT, I assume you need it and your HPTA may not react to a SERM as strongly. Or maybe it does..

Most of the studies also show that SHBG rise from enclomiphene likely comes from the rise in estrogen. So if you take an A.I with the Enclomiphene I wonder how that would play out.

AI's do tend to increase free T.

 

[Invulnerabledr]

There's no way of knowing, it's try and see. 12.5 mg of Enclo put me close to 900 ng/dl, whereas my baseline has been 400-500 in latest blood draw. But since you are on TRT, I assume you need it and your HPTA may not react to a SERM as strongly. Or maybe it does..

AI's do tend to increase free T.

maybe I’ll try it on my TRT and get blood to see if there’s any response. I’ve seen some blood work that shows people using enclomiphene with their TRT and they get a boost, worth a try.

 

[NegativeMass]

Do you run HCG with your TRT? If you keep your balls "awake" with HCG while injecting test transitioning to enclo will likely be much smoother. The longer your balls are inactive the harder it is to get them working again. If they never fully shut down it's a lot easier and faster to get them full steam.

 

[beefyfan]

I've been using enclomiphene for close to 6 months @ 12.5mg's per day. It has more than tripled my levels. I tested after 4 months and will probably go another two months and test again. Just to see if it levels off or is still climbing. Coincidentally, I picked up a 6 month supply earlier today courtesy of MA. Eat your hearts out boys!

 

[mase1]

I've been using enclomiphene for close to 6 months @ 12.5mg's per day. It has more than tripled my levels. I tested after 4 months and will probably go another two months and test again. Just to see if it levels off or is still climbing. Coincidentally, I picked up a 6 month supply earlier today courtesy of MA. Eat your hearts out boys!

Do you feel and look better then off it?

 

[BigSWOLE25]

Following

 

[beefyfan]

Do you feel and look better then off it?

I won't post pictures but absolutely. Been on keto for 10 weeks and have only lost 5-8 pounds depending on the time of week. probably 3 inches off my waist. Everything is tighter/firmer. I'm not a big strength guy especially as I'm nearing 50 but I'm getting more reps and better pumps too. As long as my bloodwork continually turns up good, I don't see myself stopping this form of therapy. Injectable test even at modest 100-125mg dosages per week starting having a negative impact on my blood pressure as well as thickening my blood. So far, enclomiphene hasn't impacted either.

 

[mase1]

That's great

 

[Invulnerabledr]

I've been using enclomiphene for close to 6 months @ 12.5mg's per day. It has more than tripled my levels. I tested after 4 months and will probably go another two months and test again. Just to see if it levels off or is still climbing. Coincidentally, I picked up a 6 month supply earlier today courtesy of MA. Eat your hearts out boys!

Any sides? Acne gyno etc? does it feel similar to exogenous. Because I too am having hematocrit issues. However I have a long history of anabolic use doing competitive bodybuilding. So idk if it would even work on me.

 

[beefyfan]

Any sides? Acne gyno etc? does it feel similar to exogenous. Because I too am having hematocrit issues. However I have a long history of anabolic use doing competitive bodybuilding. So idk if it would even work on me.

I'm feeling pretty good. I'm tempted to bump it up to 25mg's daily to see if it gets closer to the test feeling. Even on low dose TRT, my nips would often get a little puffy and sensitive. With enclo, none of that. No acne either. Although I'm not really susceptible to acne. Back in the mid 90's we scored some primoteston 250 amps from Mexico. That **** was pretty dirty as my back got oily and broke out. Really, the 1st and only time that ever happened. Never touched those again.

 

[Invulnerabledr]

I'm feeling pretty good. I'm tempted to bump it up to 25mg's daily to see if it gets closer to the test feeling. Even on low dose TRT, my nips would often get a little puffy and sensitive. With enclo, none of that. No acne either. Although I'm not really susceptible to acne. Back in the mid 90's we scored some primoteston 250 amps from Mexico. That **** was pretty dirty as my back got oily and broke out. Really, the 1st and only time that ever happened. Never touched those again.

that’s good news. I don’t get acne either. But I’ve heard of people breaking out on serms and not gear. How’s libido and energy? Still building muscle. I wish I could do the enclo. But I don’t feel it would work. I’ve been on testosterone for the last decade. I’m done lol.

 

[beefyfan]

I'm gonna be 50 soon so building muscle isn't top priority. Mainly for maintenance and quality of life. Libido is good. Energy too.

 

[KvanH]

I've been using enclomiphene for close to 6 months @ 12.5mg's per day. It has more than tripled my levels. I tested after 4 months and will probably go another two months and test again. Just to see if it levels off or is still climbing. Coincidentally, I picked up a 6 month supply earlier today courtesy of MA. Eat your hearts out boys!

Have you measured your free T and E2 on it?

 

[Invulnerabledr]

I'm gonna be 50 soon so building muscle isn't top priority. Mainly for maintenance and quality of life. Libido is good. Energy too.

Would u say it feels just as good as injectable test?

 

[beefyfan]

Would u say it feels just as good as injectable test?

When I factor in the benefits and lack of sides, I'd say on balance that I like it better. Test no doubt will change your physique more and quicker.

 

[BCseacow83]

OP, you and your dr finally get your trt dose dialed in and now they want to start screwing around with a synthetic estrogen? That makes total sense.

How high is your H/H?

Ask yourself how many men have lived 20-30-40-50 years on enclomiphene??? Sounds like an experiment to me, that IMO, too many docs opt for due to a plethora of fears and biasis and certainly not based on anything like long-term user data.

Have you tried going 5-10mg/day subq? How much hard cardio do you do? Do you eat red meat often? Do you take vitamin c, if so how much? Have you been tested for clotting disorders such as

• Factor V Leiden mutation, which occurs in 5% of people of European descent
• Prothrombin G20210A mutation (also called factor II mutation), which occurs in 2% of the population

?

 

[Smont]

So over the months I’ve dialed in my hormones for TRT. I went from 200mg test down to 75mg test a week and literally got bigger. My T level on 75mg is now 800 on the trough (6 days after inj) and over 1000 a day after injection.

My docs recommended me enclomiphene to switch on and off for a while. They told me that the Enclomiphene could get my levels up to 600-800 where I’m at now. I’ve seen some blood work showing some high numbers on enclomiphene. My question is, if enclomiphene got me to 600-800ng/dl (where I’m at now with a low dose TRT protocol) would I still be able to hold onto my muscle/strength. I mean test is test right? What would be the diff in results if it was cyp or enclomiphene if they both were to have me at the same ng/dl testosterone level? I also take a small dose of a.i weekly too

There reccomendations are to switch back and forth from trt to enclo? There's no way In hell I would be doing that, your basically shutting down natural production completely with trt and then swapping to enclo is basically making you go through pct to try to recover natural test and then back to enclo. It's a horrible idea.

 

[Smont]

Worst idea possible, let's get our trt dialed in just to go through pct with enclo and back to trt. This sounds like a protocol you would give to someone you don't like lol. Here bud, try this

 

[Smont]

Have you measured your free T and E2 on it?

I've already seen bloodwork on enclo and the raise in total and free test is fantastic, I was actually shocked at some of the results takeing guys from 200-300 to 900+in a month.but the problem with this isint the enclo, it's the fact that there trying to pct a trt regime just to go back on trt. That's a nightmare in the long run.

 

[KvanH]

I've already seen bloodwork on enclo and the raise in total and free test is fantastic, I was actually shocked at some of the results takeing guys from 200-300 to 900+in a month.but the problem with this isint the enclo, it's the fact that there trying to pct a trt regime just to go back on trt. That's a nightmare in the long run.

Yep, I agree on the switching back and forth with test and Enclo.

My question was for Beefyfan though, who said Enclo has tripled his levels. I'm assuming it's TT levels and I'd be interested to hear how his free T and E2 levels have been affected.

 

[Mikereyn513]

I'm feeling pretty good. I'm tempted to bump it up to 25mg's daily to see if it gets closer to the test feeling. Even on low dose TRT, my nips would often get a little puffy and sensitive. With enclo, none of that. No acne either. Although I'm not really susceptible to acne. Back in the mid 90's we scored some primoteston 250 amps from Mexico. That **** was pretty dirty as my back got oily and broke out. Really, the 1st and only time that ever happened. Never touched those again.

I remember those primotestin amps. One of my first cycles when I was 19. They got me strong af

 

[Smont]

Yep, I agree on the switching back and forth with test and Enclo.

My question was for Beefyfan though, who said Enclo has tripled his levels. I'm assuming it's TT levels and I'd be interested to hear how his free T and E2 levels have been affected.

Ooo, idk about his bloodwork but the ones I've seen were 3x total test and high free t and estrogen in range. Obviously there not tripling a 500-900 starting level but all these guys are triple there low t scores. @Nequals1 might chime in. He went from 330 to the high 800's on 12.5mg for 30 days

 

[BCseacow83]

Even if this was not a swap back and forth scenario is anyone going to honestly believe that a synthetic estrogen receptor agonist/antagonist is going to be better suited to LIFE LONG USE vs a hormone that has been in every single human for every single day of their lives?

I understand buying some time before committing to a lifetime of pinning but nature/God/Gaia/Aliens I think knew/know what them/them was doing. As I said before I would LOVE to see the 40 year long plus study showing how "safe" this enclomiphene therapy is..................................................................ya.

 

[Invulnerabledr]

Worst idea possible, let's get our trt dialed in just to go through pct with enclo and back to trt. This sounds like a protocol you would give to someone you don't like lol. Here bud, try this

I just switched doctors the other day. The new docs told me it was absolutely ridiculous what they were trying to do and they immediately put me on an order of T (I submitted recent blood work and documents that’s all they needed). The hematocrit was only 53, my new doc told me they were being completely paranoid and there’s no reason to halt treatment because of that. So I got it worked out. I have everything balanced perfectly and would have hated to have to do that.

 

[Smont]

Even if this was not a swap back and forth scenario is anyone going to honestly believe that a synthetic estrogen receptor agonist/antagonist is going to be better suited to LIFE LONG USE vs a hormone that has been in every single human for every single day of their lives?

I understand buying some time before committing to a lifetime of pinning but nature/God/Gaia/Aliens I think knew/know what them/them was doing. As I said before I would LOVE to see the 40 year long plus study showing how "safe" this enclomiphene therapy is..................................................................ya.

Couldn't agree more

 

[Wobmarvel]

What's your Enclo dosing protocol and do you plan on getting blood work on it?

My intention is to dose 12.5mg per day for a week then drop down to 6.25 daily or 12.5 every other day for a few weeks to see how it effects my energy levels. When I last had my test levels checked I was at about 550 which to be honest was way better than I expected and at age 48 that's not actually too bad. I have some minor gyno from previous cycles and was also interested to see if it has any effect on this.

What I have noticed so far (only a week and a half in) is a slight boost to libido, a big increase in hunger... Which is a bit annoying as I am trying to eat at around maintenance at the moment for a recomp. Plus I have days where nipples get sensitive but then days where they feel nothing so there is some estrogen floating around there for sure and I am a little concerned that this could make gyno worse.

Starting straight in at 12.5mg per day was maybe a mistake. I will continue this week or so at 6.25 as I don't want to just stop because if it does what I understand it's doing then I currently have a bunch of unbound estrogen that will suddenly start binding when receptors are suddenly freed up.

There is also the possibility that what I have isnt enclomiphene at all which is always a risk when you buy these things online. Anyway mine uses a dropper and liquid so very easy to adjust dose.

I do like how I feel on it and it's only been just over a week.

 

[xsports76]

Ooo, idk about his bloodwork but the ones I've seen were 3x total test and high free t and estrogen in range. Obviously there not tripling a 500-900 starting level but all these guys are triple there low t scores. @Nequals1 might chime in. He went from 330 to the high 800's on 12.5mg for 30 days

I went from 375 to 820 in 25mgs Monday Wednesday Friday

 

[Nequals1]

Ooo, idk about his bloodwork but the ones I've seen were 3x total test and high free t and estrogen in range. Obviously there not tripling a 500-900 starting level but all these guys are triple there low t scores. @Nequals1 might chime in. He went from 330 to the high 800's on 12.5mg for 30 days

Sorry for the delayed reply.

That is correct. After 30d Enclo at 12.5mg qd po, total T increased ~3x from 320 to 886 ng/dL. Free T from 52 to 98 ng/dL. Only a daily multivitamin was taken concurrently, so I can say with confidence that the Enclo was the primary driver. Note that after this dose regimen all liver function tests remained unchanged and in the normal range.

I hope this is helpful.

 

[Rad83]

Sorry for the delayed reply.

That is correct. After 30d Enclo at 12.5mg qd po, total T increased ~3x from 320 to 886 ng/dL. Free T from 52 to 98 ng/dL. Only a daily multivitamin was taken concurrently, so I can say with confidence that the Enclo was the primary driver. Note that after this dose regimen all liver function tests remained unchanged and in the normal range.

I hope this is helpful.

Huge!

I’m sure you’d have mentioned but anything else out of whack on bloods?

Thanx

 

[Nequals1]

Huge!

I’m sure you’d have mentioned but anything else out of whack on bloods?

Thanx

I only tested hormones and liver function test. I should have spun a crit, and maybe run a chem 7, but I’ve never had any issues in hematology so did not do so.

 

[JKVol]

Sorry for the delayed reply.

That is correct. After 30d Enclo at 12.5mg qd po, total T increased ~3x from 320 to 886 ng/dL. Free T from 52 to 98 ng/dL. Only a daily multivitamin was taken concurrently, so I can say with confidence that the Enclo was the primary driver. Note that after this dose regimen all liver function tests remained unchanged and in the normal range.

I hope this is helpful.

Are you taking Enclo everyday?

 

[Nequals1]

Are you taking Enclo everyday?

During this PCT, yes. Enclo was taken daily in the morning.

 

[Beau]

Subbed

 

[Anabolic66]

I'm gonna be 50 soon so building muscle isn't top priority. Mainly for maintenance and quality of life. Libido is good. Energy too.

I know we spoke about this on another forum, but eclomiphene does not have the same emotional sides as clomid, is that an accurate statement? I may look into this stuff soon. I dropped my TRT dose to 75 mg as week, as even 125 mg was starting to make me feel shitty. (A bit anxious, prostate sides, etc)... Does eclomiphene cause any prostate sides in people?? (Or is it known to)?

 

[Smont]

I know we spoke about this on another forum, but eclomiphene does not have the same emotional sides as clomid, is that an accurate statement? I may look into this stuff soon. I dropped my TRT dose to 75 mg as week, as even 125 mg was starting to make me feel shitty. (A bit anxious, prostate sides, etc)... Does eclomiphene cause any prostate sides in people?? (Or is it known to)?

That we are aware of, no and no. It appears to be safe but we dont have much if any long term data on enclo as a solo hrt. Because its a serm theres probably still An increased risk of clotting.

My personal opinion is that completely relying on enclo for year round hrt is risky, but then again so is running cycles.

I got a few bottles in my drawer, im a rep for maresearch so i figured i should probably use some to understand it a little better but i havnt got around to it because im on test 24/7.

Im gonna wait till After a big cycle where i'm sick of pinning and seeing how it works in place of testosterone on a cruise/ trt phase to compare it to my 150mg of cyp trt dose

 

[PolishHamm3r77]

I know we spoke about this on another forum, but eclomiphene does not have the same emotional sides as clomid, is that an accurate statement? I may look into this stuff soon. I dropped my TRT dose to 75 mg as week, as even 125 mg was starting to make me feel shitty. (A bit anxious, prostate sides, etc)... Does eclomiphene cause any prostate sides in people?? (Or is it known to)?

Started Enclomiphene in September @12.5mg/day
Tried to knock it down to 6.25mg eod, then 6.25mg daily but 12.5mg daily feels best. The enclo and tada are the only things I’m taking right now. My father died from pulmonary embolism so I prob shouldn’t be doing this. But his clotting was due to melanoma.

 

[Anabolic66]

That we are aware of, no and no. It appears to be safe but we dont have much if any long term data on enclo as a solo hrt. Because its a serm theres probably still An increased risk of clotting.

My personal opinion is that completely relying on enclo for year round hrt is risky, but then again so is running cycles.

I got a few bottles in my drawer, im a rep for maresearch so i figured i should probably use some to understand it a little better but i havnt got around to it because im on test 24/7.

Im gonna wait till After a big cycle where i'm sick of pinning and seeing how it works in place of testosterone on a cruise/ trt phase to compare it to my 150mg of cyp trt dose

Thank you Smont and PolishHammer.... Doing some research on it now...

 

[PolishHamm3r77]

Thank you Smont and PolishHammer.... Doing some research on it now...

I tend to have a short fuse blended w a 5’6” Napoleonic complex and some narcissistic rage and enclo has made me a tad more emotional and empathetic if anything. My wife isn’t saying I’m being a dick or an ass etc. she lets me know pretty quick when I am

 

[Smont]

Thank you Smont and PolishHammer.... Doing some research on it now...

I wish i knew more about it but i dont so i dont wanna bullshit no1. If you do decide to give it a try check us out and you can use my screen name as a 15% off code.

I've used like 90% of the products mike sells and i have yet to have a bad experience, but i have not used the enclo yet so i cant personally give my opinion but everyone here seems to be loving it.

We had a couple members post blood work And it tripled their testosterone. Not saying its gonna triple someones 800 to a 2400 but these guys had low t around 200 and 300 and they tripled those numbers

 

[Smont]

My Main concern is trying to figure out how the transition is going to be. If i stop test, wait 2-3 weeks and start enclo i wonder if its gonna Feel like i'm going through pct or if it just does the job. I've seen one person talk about this and they said it was a pretty seamless transition. But Im not putting my eggs in that basket based off 1 report lol. I do hope they're correct though

 

[Anabolic66]

I wish i knew more about it but i dont so i dont wanna bullshit no1. If you do decide to give it a try check us out and you can use my screen name as a 15% off code.

I've used like 90% of the products mike sells and i have yet to have a bad experience, but i have not used the enclo yet so i cant personally give my opinion but everyone here seems to be loving it.

We had a couple members post blood work And it tripled their testosterone. Not saying its gonna triple someones 800 to a 2400 but these guys had low t around 200 and 300 and they tripled those numbers

Ive used MA Research many times, have never been disappointed.. thx for the code...

 

[Anabolic66]

I tend to have a short fuse blended w a 5’6” Napoleonic complex and some narcissistic rage and enclo has made me a tad more emotional and empathetic if anything. My wife isn’t saying I’m being a dick or an ass etc. she lets me know pretty quick when I am

Ha ha, sounds like me!!

 

[PolishHamm3r77]

Ha ha, sounds like me!!

In good company then!!!

 

[Wimsicle]

Little bump here, how's the enclo going? Thinking of doing a little research myself.

 

[Anabolic66]

I think Ive been for about 8 weeks now (6.25 ED) after stopping TRT. (Mainly for prostate and anxious feeling reasons).
I must say I feel good overall. The one thing is libido took a hit for sure. I added .5mg of Finasteride as well (M-W-F) and
that can affect libido, along with lowering my total test. I have one more week left of Enclom on hand and then just going to fully clean out for 1 month. I get my yearly physical and full bloods on APR 11, so I want to see where everything is. Main concern is PSA (And of course test levels). My other markers should all be fine as they normally are historically.

If all is well, I'm thinking of trying the Emeric Delczeg TRT method. He (and others) have been doing the 10mg per day protocol.
So its only 70 mg per week, down from my 125 mg per week. More stable bloods, less sides, etc. People have been hitting between 800-1000 ng/dl doing this (total test) with excellent free test levels. In our prime, our body makes 5-10 mg of Test per day.