Enclomiphene on LGD cycle info

svida

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I've seen many posts where folks are not starting 12.5mg of Enclomiphene until week 3 of an LGD cycle to prevent suppression. What is the reasoning for this compared to starting Enclomiphene from day 1? Also, is best practice to continue running 12.5mg for 4 weeks after discontinuing LGD for PCT? Is there any difference between Enclomiphene Citrate liquid vs. Enclomiphene HCL powder?
 

THEstudent

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I've seen many posts where folks are not starting 12.5mg of Enclomiphene until week 3 of an LGD cycle to prevent suppression. What is the reasoning for this compared to starting Enclomiphene from day 1? Also, is best practice to continue running 12.5mg for 4 weeks after discontinuing LGD for PCT? Is there any difference between Enclomiphene Citrate liquid vs. Enclomiphene HCL powder?
I think the general consensus is that enclomiphene during a cycle is pretty much a waste. It is probably not strong enough to prevent suppression. I say probably because it would take blood work to confirm it.
 

svida

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From my own experience, I've proven with bloodwork that Enclomiphene keeps my total/free test at baseline on an 8-week LGD cycle. Typically, I start Enclomiphene a few weeks prior to LGD and let it run into PCT. I've had no loss of libido, shutdown, etc.
 
KvanH

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From my own experience, I've proven with bloodwork that Enclomiphene keeps my total/free test at baseline on an 8-week LGD cycle. Typically, I start Enclomiphene a few weeks prior to LGD and let it run into PCT. I've had no loss of libido, shutdown, etc.
Then do it like that again, if going to do the SERM + SARM. I don't see any reason to wait to add in the SERM, if doing this. What dose of LGD?
 
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Mike Arnold

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I think the general consensus is that enclomiphene during a cycle is pretty much a waste. It is probably not strong enough to prevent suppression. I say probably because it would take blood work to confirm it.
You're correct. It is a waste, but the reason is due to it's mechanism of action, not because it's not "strong enough".

You see, chemicals such as Clom/Enclom/Nolva work by stimulating the hypothalamus to release LH and FSH from the pituitary. These hormones then travel to the testes, where they directly stimulate testosterone and sperm production.

Steroids/SARMs suppress androgen/sperm production where the feedback loop begins; the hypothalamus. Therefore, the on-cycle use of enclom is useless. Suppression will occur regardless. This is why we wait until the steroid(s)/SARM(s) have left our system before commencing with S.E.R.M-based PCT.

On the other hand, HCG does work to prevent testosterone production from being suppressed while on-cycle, as it bypasses the hypothalamus. HCG is recognized by the testes themselves as LH, so when you inject HCG, it travels directly to the testes and stimulates testosterone production, just like LH would. Since steroids/SARMs don't stop HCG from binding to receptors in the testes, it will still work to prevent on-cycle suppression, but ONLY at the level of the testes. The hypothalamus/pituitary will still be suppressed (i.e., no endogenous LH or FSH production), regardless.

This is why HCG (or HMG) has traditionally been employed for on-cycle testosterone maintenance, followed by a S.E.R.M (such as clom/enclom/nolva) for restoration of the full feedback loop (the HPTA) during PCT.
 

svida

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You're correct. It is a waste, but the reason is due to it's mechanism of action, not because it's not "strong enough".

You see, chemicals such as Clom/Enclom/Nolva work by stimulating the hypothalamus to release LH and FSH from the pituitary. These hormones then travel to the testes, where they directly stimulate testosterone and sperm production.

Steroids/SARMs suppress androgen/sperm production where the feedback loop begins; the hypothalamus. Therefore, the on-cycle use of enclom is useless. Suppression will occur regardless. This is why we wait until the steroid(s)/SARM(s) have left our system before commencing with S.E.R.M-based PCT.

On the other hand, HCG does work to prevent testosterone production from being suppressed while on-cycle, as it bypasses the hypothalamus. HCG is recognized by the testes themselves as LH, so when you inject HCG, it travels directly to the testes and stimulates testosterone production, just like LH would. Since steroids/SARMs don't stop HCG from binding to receptors in the testes, it will still work to prevent on-cycle suppression, but ONLY at the level of the testes. The hypothalamus/pituitary will still be suppressed (i.e., no endogenous LH or FSH production), regardless.

This is why HCG (or HMG) has traditionally been employed for on-cycle testosterone maintenance, followed by a S.E.R.M (such as clom/enclom/nolva) for restoration of the full feedback loop (the HPTA) during PCT.
Wow, great info Mike! Appreciate your feedback here! So do you recommend starting Enclomiphene in PCT the day after stopping a SARM cycle?
 

Mike Arnold

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Wow, great info Mike! Appreciate your feedback here! So do you recommend starting Enclomiphene in PCT the day after stopping a SARM cycle?
Yes
 
KvanH

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Wow, great info Mike! Appreciate your feedback here! So do you recommend starting Enclomiphene in PCT the day after stopping a SARM cycle?
Well written and laid out, as we've accustomed to see from Mike. But also some of the basic stuff one would hope anyone who plays around with anabolics to know. What about your own bloodwork you told about showing success with your previous endeavours?
 

BillD

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And what are your thoughts on running an AI with Enclomiphene, specifically 6-oxo or even something stronger?
Or aromasin? Curious how one would dose the 2.
 

Mike Arnold

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And what are your thoughts on running an AI with Enclomiphene, specifically 6-oxo or even something stronger?
I really don't think it's needed. AIs work through the same mechanism as SERMs (in terms of increasing T levels) and enclom is already pretty effective on its own. If you were going to add anything during PCT, something that helps maintain muscle is probably a better choice than adding a 2nd chemical that works through the same exact mechanism.
 

svida

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Well written and laid out, as we've accustomed to see from Mike. But also some of the basic stuff one would hope anyone who plays around with anabolics to know. What about your own bloodwork you told about showing success with your previous endeavours?
Many times I've taken enclo about 4 weeks prior to my LGD cycle, and it's raised my total test from ~500 to ~800, and then during cycle while I've continued to take enclo, it drops back to baseline the entire time at ~500 and I've felt no shutdown symptoms.
 
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