Dosing Guide for Popular PH/DS

[yates84]

DonnieM think about administering good ol Test. It will work on the androgen-receptor as Testosterone. But a part will be converted to DHT wich in itself will also bind the androgen receptor.
So you have the "prohormone" Testosteron wich is active itself and the "active Steroid" DHT.

M1,4ADD in this analogy is Testosterone and Dianabol DHT. Both active but one will convert into the other to a part.

Good analogy

 

[Jebrook]

It used to be that one was legal and the other wasn't. Personally, given the choice of running a steroid or its prohormone I would choose the steroid every time just because there is no conversion that needs to take place inside the body since it's already an active steroid.

^^^This. The results from actual OT will be better and the sides and toxicity are very close to the same. Assuming access to legit firms of both, the OT will be better every time. Just ask the German Olympic team

 

[DonnieM]

Bunshichi Thats a good yet simple explanation for it, thanks It's always nice to get deeper understanding about this kind of stuff.

 

[Gstyle24]

Would Trenavar would be good to stack with 4-Andro?

 

[Jebrook]

Would Trenavar would be good to stack with 4-Andro?

It would stack alright. Make sure to have an AI and some prolactin control.

 

[yates84]

Would Trenavar would be good to stack with 4-Andro?

What's your cycle experience? I would add some 1 andro to that stack as well.

 

[Gstyle24]

What's your cycle experience? I would add some 1 andro to that stack as well.

Took super DMZ 2.0 last summer, then TD 1-andro, 4-andro, and epiandro for 8 weeks in october/november.

 

[yates84]

Took super DMZ 2.0 last summer, then TD 1-andro, 4-andro, and epiandro for 8 weeks in october/november.

Ueah, you would be disappointed with just tren and 4 andro. 1 andro will definitely be the finishing touch to make that a great non methyl mass stack.

 

[Gstyle24]

Ueah, you would be disappointed with just tren and 4 andro. 1 andro will definitely be the finishing touch to make that a great non methyl mass stack.

Cool. I'm thinking a 6 week cycle at max dosages(haven't figured that out yet).

Will Vitamin E suffice for prolactin control?

 

[Misfits88]

Cool. I'm thinking a 6 week cycle at max dosages(haven't figured that out yet).

Will Vitamin E suffice for prolactin control?

Nope, for tren you need inhibit-p or prolactrone

 

[Misfit28]

Nope, for tren you need inhibit-p or prolactrone

This.

Will you be running cycle supports besides prolactin control, I assume?

 

[Misfits88]

You asking me or gstyle?

 

[Misfit28]

You asking me or gstyle?

Him, sorry. Wrong quote, lol.

 

[Misfits88]

Lol its all good bruh

 

[Gstyle24]

This.

Will you be running cycle supports besides prolactin control, I assume?

Yeah probably an AI like Jebrook said, and ARMA1CARE PRO

 

[brofessorx]

fixed.

Methylepitiostanol (Epistane)
2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol*
Recommended for beginners
Recommended dosage: 30-45 mg daily
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity Level: Low-Moderate
Estrogen Conversion: No (This compound has no proof as an anti estrogen, and according to Patrick Arnold, most likely isn't any more of an anti estrogen than dht.)
Half-life: ~6 hrs
DHT Based
Typical Uses: Lean bulk, cutting, recomp
Note: Epistane has become notorious for causing rebound gyno in some users. The best preventative measure is to run an AI after PCT. This compound is very dry and commonly causes joint issues. Thus, it is recommended to use joint support or stack it with an aromatizing compound.

Halodrol
4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3b,17b-diol
Recommended for beginners
Recommended Dosage: 50-75mgs a day-experienced users can dose 100-150mg daily
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle
Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity Level: Low-Moderate (Dose Dependant)
Estrogen Conversion: NO
Half-life: ~12 hrs
Test based
Typical Uses: Bulking, lean bulking, recomp
Note: hdrol has the possibility of conversion into turinabol, but is active on it's own

Trenavar/Trendione
Estra-4,9,11-triene-3,17-Dione
Not recommended for beginners
Recommended dosage: 60-90 mg daily-many users commonly take 120mg or more daily
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: No
Toxicity Level: Moderate
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half-life: 6-8 hours
19-Nortestosterone (Nandrolone derivative)
Typical Uses: Stacking, lean bulking, cutting, recomp
Note:Trenavar is a prohormone to the veterinary steroid Trenbolone. Tren is probably one of the harshest of the non-methyls ph's and carries many similar sides and also has high likelihood of elevating prolactin levels, thus a cycle support and prolactin control are recommended.

Methyldiazarinol(Triumph)
3,3-azo-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol
Recommended for beginners
Recommended dosage: 30-60mg daily-advanced users may go as high as 100 mg daily
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity Level: Moderate
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half-life: 6 hrs
DHT based
Typical Uses: cutting, recomp, lean bulk

Dimethandrostenol(Dimethadrol)
2,17α-dimethyl-17β-hydroxy-5α-androst-2-ene
Not for beginners
Recommended dosage: 15-30 mg daily-some users report double that dosage
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity Level: Moderate
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half-life: 6-8 hrs
DHT based
Typical Uses: Bulking, Lean bulking, recomp

Methylstenbolone (M-Sten)
2,17α-dimethyl-5α-androsta-1-en-17β-ol-3-one
Not for beginners
Recommended dosage: 10-20 mg, although many users commonly take 30 mg or more a day
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity Level: Moderate
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half-life: 6 hrs
DHT based
Typical Uses: Bulking, Lean bulking, recomp

Dymethazine (DMZ)
2,17-dimethyl-5-androstan-17-ol-3,3'-azine
Many beginners use this but it is not a common recommendation
Recommended dosage: 30-45 mg daily
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity Level: Moderate
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half-life: 12-16 hrs
DHT based
Typical Uses: Bulking, lean bulking, recomp

Methyl 1 AD(Alpha 1 or M1AD)
methyl-1-Etiocholenolol-Epietiocholanolone 17a methyl-1-androstenediol
Not suitable for beginners
Recommended Dosage: 40-80 mg daily
Average Cycle Length: 3-4 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity Level: Moderate-High(Dosage and user dependant)
Estrogen Conversion: No (Some users have reported Gyno flares but estrogen side effects are not typical of this compound)
Half-life: 5-6 hrs
DHT based
Typical Uses: Bulking, strength
note: like other diol compounds, this has the ability to possibly convert some small amount into methyl 1-testosterone (m1t) but is active on it's own.)

Methyldrostanalone (Superdrol)
17β-Hydroxy-2α,17α-dimethyl-5α-androstane-3-one
Advanced users only
Recommended Dosage: 10-30 mg daily- some users will attempt 40 mg daily
Average cycle length: 4-6 weeks (10mg typically being ran at 6 or more weeks.)
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity Level: High
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half-life: ~8 hr
DHT based
Typical Uses: Bulking, lean bulking, strength
Note: SD is very liver toxic and heavy on sides like blood pressure, lipids, etc. A very comprehensive cycle support regimen and TUDCA are highly recommended.

Methoxygonadiene(Max LMG)
13-ethyl-3-methoxy-gona-2,5(10)dien-17-one
Recommended Dosage: 50-120mgs a day
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: NO
Toxicity Level: Low
Estrogen conversion: YES
Half-life: 48-72 hrs
19-Nor derivative
Typical Uses: Stacking, bulking
Note: Because of the progestational effects, users should avoid stacking this compound with other gyno aggravating compounds. Max LMG can aromatize to estrogen AND HAS TWO CHANCES TO DO SO, ONCE AFTER CONVERSION INTO 13B ETHYL NOR ANDROSTENEDIONE (AN AROMATIZABLE PRO HORMONE, AND AGAIN AFTER CONVERSION INTO 13B ETHYL NOR TESTOSTERONE, ANOTHER AROMATIZABLE STEROID. STACKS BEST WITH NON AROMATIZABLE COMPOUNDS LIKE DIMETHAZINE Prolactin support is recommended.

Trestolone
17β-hydroxy-7α-methylestr-4-en-3-one 7a methyl nor testosterone (ment)
Not for beginners
Recommended dosage: 50-100mg a day-many users experienced users take 150 mg or more daily
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 8-12 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity Level: Low-(Dose Dependant)
Estrogen Conversion: High(This is somewhat dosage and user dependent aromatizes into the more potent methyl estrogen
Half-life: 2-4 hrs (depends on oral or transdermal administration)
19-Nor derivative
Typical Uses: Stacking, Test base, bulking, lean bulking
Note: This compound makes a great test base for methylated cycles. At lower doses(50-75) conversion to methyl estrogen is low but at 100 mg and higher an AI becomes necessary. Also important to note is that the extremely short half life of Trest requires frequent dosing to maintain stable levels of this anabolic in the bloodstream.
injectable trestolone feels nothing like testosterone in my opinion.
Hexadrone
6a-chloro-androst-4-en-17b-ol-3-one
Recommended for beginners
Recommended dosage: 50-150mgs a day Solo runs can reach 200mgs
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: No
Toxicity Level: Low
Estrogen Conversion: NO (Anti Estrogenic)
Half-life: 6 hrs
Typical Uses: Stacking, lean bulking, cutting, recomp

Furaza
5a-androstanol[2,3]furazan-17b-tetrahydropyranol
Recommended dosage: 250-400 mg stacked, 400-600mg solo
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: No
Toxicity Level: Low
Estrogen Conversion: NO (Anti Estrogenic)
Half-life: 2-4 hrs depending upon administration
DHT based
Typical Uses: Stacking, recomp, cutting

M1 4ADD
17a-methyl-1,4-androstadiene-3,17diol
Not recommended for beginners
Recommended Dosage: 50-100mgs a day-some dose as high as 150mg daily
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity Level: Moderate-High(Dosage and user dependent)
Estrogen Conversion: none, it is a diol compound, and incapable or aromatization,*methyl estrogen conversion likely occurs from what does convert into dbol
Half-life: 4-5 hrs
Test based
Typical Uses: Bulking, strength
Note: this has the ability to convert into the steroid known as dianabol. Conversion is *impossible to determine in the body*** 5alpha reduction into m1a or m1t is minimal.. This is a "wet" compound, thus estrogen side effects should be expected. AI and plenty of cycle support are recommended.

4-chloro methyl androstenediol aka pmag
pmag an methyl clostebol are different compounds with methyl clostebol being the 3-ketone version
4-chloro-17α-methyl-androst-4-ene-3,17β-diol
Okay for beginners
Recommended dosage: 75-125 mg
Average cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity Level: Moderate
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half Life: 12 hrs
Typically used for: Bulking, lean bulking, and recomp

Desoxymethytestosterone (Pheraplex)
17a-methyl-etioallocholan-2-ene-17b-ol
Not for beginners
Recommended dosage: 40-60 mg daily
Avg Cycle Duration: 4 weeks
Advanced Cycle Duration: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity:
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half-life:~9 hrs
Typical Uses: Bulking, strength
Note: DMT does not convert to estrogen, yet gyno and other estrogen related sides can be somewhat common due to it's low androgenic activity.

M1T
(5a, 17b)-17-Hydroxy-17-methylandrost-1-en-3-one
Advanced Users Only
Recommended dosage: 10-20 mg daily.
Avg Cycle Duration: 2-3 weeks
Advanced Cycle Duration: 3-6 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity: High
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half-life: Estimated at 16 hrs or more
Typical Uses: Bulking, strength

Methyl DHT Oxime(The One)
Nomenclature: 17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol-3-hydroxyimine
Okay for beginners
Recommended dosage: 75-125 mg daily
Average Cycle Duration: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Duration: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity: Moderate
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half life:
Typical Uses: Lean bulking, cutting, and recomp

*The chemical names listed under nomenclature often vary for many compounds but are similiar. I simply put the most common names I've seen.

 

[Jebrook]

fixed.

Several good points in here. I will make some amendments on some in the OP tomorrow. Nomenclature varies so unless I completely put the wrong thing I will only list one variation. Half-life can vary according to the reference source so I will put 12-16 for Halo. I plan to add detailed Notes to each compound as I have more time. Thanks for contributing.

 

[brofessorx]

edit: it seems the half life for tbol has changed in the last few years, lol. 12-16 looks to be the consensus :0

I just put the confusing nomenclatures into the simplier terms that everyone will recognize an understand, like the m1a, and ment. the methyl clostebol an pmag nomenclatures are different, with pmag being a diol, and methyl clostebol being 17b-ol-3-one (3-ketone)

overall it's good information an took a lot of work. :thumbsup:

 

[Jebrook]

edit: it seems the half life for tbol has changed in the last few years, lol. 12-16 looks to be the consensus :0

I just put the confusing nomenclatures into the simplier terms that everyone will recognize an understand, like the m1a, and ment. the methyl clostebol an pmag nomenclatures are different, with pmag being a diol, and methyl clostebol being 17b-ol-3-one (3-ketone)

overall it's good information an took a lot of work. :thumbsup:

Lol. Yeah, I did it on my IPhone, so it took a fair amount of time. The last update I added a lot of older less currently popular compounds in a hurry and I was worried there would be some typos or incorrect info. Definitely good catch on the Methylclostebol/PMag misnomer and the debate about Furaza and aromatization. Repped.

 

[rnoorani]

...

 

[Jebrook]

Here's an informative link relevant to this thread courtesy of brofessorx:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2439524/

 

[Night hog]

Great job putting this together. If you could add common stacks also I think it would be very beneficial and might help to stop people from constantly asking the same questions.

 

[Jebrook]

Great job putting this together. If you could add common stacks also I think it would be very beneficial and might help to stop people from constantly asking the same questions.

Good call. I can certainly add that to the list of things to do

 

[Jebrook]

I started updating the OP again with correction and more detail regarding the compounds.

 

[brofessorx]

Trenadione is an inactive metabolite of trenbolone.
Like other pro hormones, in vivo ( in the body) conversion is impossible to determine.

The 5% for dione, 15% for diol numbers come from Patrick Arnold's patent research on the compounds, ( androstenedione & androstenediol) which are in vitro ( in a Petri dish) an commonly mistaken. Even pa himself states he wishes he didn't put that info out as people totally mixed it up.

Just a little insight to how conversion misinformation got started.

Looking over the op now :spankme:

 

[clown007]

Hey guys,
Just looking for thoughts on the following:

RAD 8/8/8/8/0/0/0/0
Halo 0/75/75/75/75/75/75/75
Tren 90/90/90/90/90/90/90/90
Dermacrine 3-4 pumps as needed throughout

along with:
Arimacare Pro
Prostate Health
Taurine
Inhibit P

I do have RC AIs and SERMs for PCT as well. Just curious if the addition of the RAD is worth it, or will it just up the lethargy without providing noticeable benefits?

Thanks

 

[Jebrook]

Hey guys,
Just looking for thoughts on the following:

RAD 8/8/8/8/0/0/0/0
Halo 0/75/75/75/75/75/75/75
Tren 90/90/90/90/90/90/90/90
Dermacrine 3-4 pumps as needed throughout

along with:
Arimacare Pro
Prostate Health
Taurine
Inhibit P

I do have RC AIs and SERMs for PCT as well. Just curious if the addition of the RAD is worth it, or will it just up the lethargy without providing noticeable benefits?

Thanks

Looks pretty good to me if you've got the experience and are comfortable with it. The only thing I might consider is two weeks of rad/Tren solo and starting halo on week 3 and upping the dose in the final week or two. The way you have laid out is also fine though. Maybe yates84 has some insight into how well Rad/Tren might interact. Rad is probably the SARM I am least familiar with. I like the potential of this cycle though. Should be pretty potent and translate to lots of lean mass!

 

[clown007]

I could definitely do that. Go 100 the last two weeks.
Thanks!

 

[yates84]

Looks pretty good to me if you've got the experience and are comfortable with it. The only thing I might consider is two weeks of rad/Tren solo and starting halo on week 3 and upping the dose in the final week or two. The way you have laid out is also fine though. Maybe yates84 has some insight into how well Rad/Tren might interact. Rad is probably the SARM I am least familiar with. I like the potential of this cycle though. Should be pretty potent and translate to lots of lean mass!

Rad and tren sounds e****lent. With rad being highly anabolic and minimally androgenic I don't see much that rad wouldn't stack good with.

 

[brofessorx]

Rad makes me constipated. :smoker:

 

[yates84]

Rad makes me constipated. :smoker:

Methyls do that to me.....

 

[brofessorx]

Methyls do that to me.....

Cycle support help with that.
Cycle assist, arimacare pro, an some tudca.

Also snacking on dried apricots keeps things flowing smoothly on a daily basis

 

[yates84]

Cycle support help with that.
Cycle assist, arimacare pro, an some tudca.

Also snacking on dried apricots keeps things flowing smoothly on a daily basis

A few scoops of Metamucil works wonders too, apricots sounds pretty effective as well.

 

[Jebrook]

Rad makes me constipated. :smoker:

Lol! Water retention + poop retention= quick Gainz.

 

[clown007]

Thanks for the feedback guys! I am looking forward to adding the RAD to the equation for the first four weeks.
I appreciate all the help.

 

[dhehyo]

Great thread guys...Made me look through my old stash and came across a Myopharm Halobolin. Anyone have any experience with this brand or whether it's legit? Thanks.

 

[yates84]

Great thread guys...Made me look through my old stash and came across a Myopharm Halobolin. Anyone have any experience with this brand or whether it's legit? Thanks.

Their stuff is legit but it's dosed to where you need 3 bottles for a decent cycle.

 

[customchevy]

I was browsing through the begining of the thread and didn't see anything about Winstrol or*Stanozolol.. was curious if yates84 or Jebrook knew anything about it. I have a couple friends that have tried and liked but was curious to hear your guys opinion

 

[BamBam0319]

I was browsing through the begining of the thread and didn't see anything about Winstrol or*Stanozolol.. was curious if yates84 or Jebrook knew anything about it. I have a couple friends that have tried and liked but was curious to hear your guys opinion

Winstrol isn't a prohormone or designer steroid, so that's probably why it's not in this guide.

 

[Jebrook]

I was browsing through the begining of the thread and didn't see anything about Winstrol or*Stanozolol.. was curious if yates84 or Jebrook knew anything about it. I have a couple friends that have tried and liked but was curious to hear your guys opinion

Like BamBam0319 said, Stanozolol or the trade name Winstrol is not a pro-hormone or designer steroid. That is why I didn't include it in this guide. It is a DHT derived hormone and is highly bio available and highly anabolic. Very popular among body builders. You can pm me any questions but I don't have firsthand experience with it. Lots of info is available on it though.

 

[Bunshichi]

However, I think Stanodrol would be interesting in this guide.

 

[Jebrook]

However, I think Stanodrol would be interesting in this guide.

Yes, I was just reminded of it when I read Stanozolol. I'll get it in there

 

[dhehyo]

I understand the half-life of Halo is roughly 12-16 hours. If running 75mg per day using both 50mg and 25mg pills...would it be better to dose the 25mg in the AM and the 50mg pre workout (late afternoon) or other way around? Thanks guys.

 

[supaslowdx]

To elaborate on dhehyo comment...

It is stated the daily dosage and half life of the compounds but would it be useful to add a recommended dosing protocol? With timing and nutrient requirements. I.E. 15mg every 6 hours with a fat containing meal, or whatever the example may be.

I think that may be valuable as well

Thoughts?

 

[yates84]

I understand the half-life of Halo is roughly 12-16 hours. If running 75mg per day using both 50mg and 25mg pills...would it be better to dose the 25mg in the AM and the 50mg pre workout (late afternoon) or other way around? Thanks guys.

I would take the larger dose as close to your workout as possible.

 

[Shin Sprints]

I would take the larger dose as close to your workout as possible.

Okay to take on empty stomach with pre-workout?

Start first halo run this morning. Thanks.

 

[yates84]

Okay to take on empty stomach with pre-workout?

Start first halo run this morning. Thanks.

Take with fats! A scoop of coconut oil with my pwo is how I used to do it.

 

[Shin Sprints]

Take with fats! A scoop of coconut oil with my pwo is how I used to do it.

Thanks. Will do that so...5g enough? Haven't had coconut oil in a while so would need to build up beyond 5g

 

[yates84]

Thanks. Will do that so...5g enough? Haven't had coconut oil in a while so would need to build up beyond 5g

Perfect.

 

[Shin Sprints]

Perfect.

Great stuff. Thanks.