Dosing Guide for Popular PH/DS

[yates84]

All good in the hood. Have been mostly MIA here myself in recent months....but a new cycle on the horizon has my anabolic mind turning again.

Oooh new cycle...my favorite! Tell me more...

 

[Toren]

Oooh new cycle...my favorite! Tell me more...

In the planning stages. I was going to take a big long break but the summer is coming...... :]

Nothing crazy like you guys. Probably a simple 12 week Test-E run (375-500mg). Kicked with rad for 3-4 weeks and finished with high-dosed 11-KT. But now i"m thinking...

Test: 1-12 (375-500 EW)
Tbol: 1-6 (40-50mg ED)
11-KT: 7-14 (250mg ED)

Should make for a killer summer recomp while still being mildish on my long flowing locks of hair.

 

[yates84]

In the planning stages. I was going to take a big long break but the summer is coming...... :]

Nothing crazy like you guys. Probably a simple 12 week Test-E run (375-500mg). Kicked with rad for 3-4 weeks and finished with high-dosed 11-KT. But now i"m thinking...

Test: 1-12 (375-500 EW)
Tbol: 1-6 (40-50mg ED)
11-KT: 7-14 (250mg ED)

Should make for a killer summer recomp while still being mild on my long flowing locks of hair.

Sounds excellent!

 

[EricMM]

I try to keep the NAC on the low side only because it supposedly reduces gains.

 

[yates84]

I try to keep the NAC on the low side only because it supposedly reduces gains.

I use 1200mg daily. Not sure how it would reduce gains. Remember they used to say that about milk thistle?

 

[Admin]

I use 1200mg daily. Not sure how it would reduce gains. Remember they used to say that about milk thistle?

Because its an anti-oxidant and large levels could possibly interfere in and around exercise.

 

[yates84]

Because its an anti-oxidant and large levels could possibly interfere in and around exercise.

How much do you think this could really effect gains on cycle? Most popular cycle supports use at least a gram of nac.

 

[Admin]

How much do you think this could really effect gains on cycle? Most popular cycle supports use at least a gram of nac.

Yes but count up all the other anti-oxidants you take. Vitamin C, coq10, ubiquinol, tumeric, etc...it all adds up.

1200mg should be plenty for anyone 200lbs. I actually only take 600mg and use Choline Inositol at 1-2g per day.

 

[Admin]

How much do you think this could really effect gains on cycle? Most popular cycle supports use at least a gram of nac.

Yes but count up all the other anti-oxidants you take. Vitamin C, coq10, ubiquinol, tumeric, etc...it all adds up.

1200mg should be plenty for anyone 200lbs. I actually only take 600mg and use Choline Inositol at 1-2g per day.

 

[yates84]

Yes but count up all the other anti-oxidants you take. Vitamin C, coq10, ubiquinol, tumeric, etc...it all adds up.

1200mg should be plenty for anyone 200lbs. I actually only take 600mg and use Choline Inositol at 1-2g per day.

Interesting. Will have to look into that some more. I guess the pomegranate extract that was mentioned in this thread earlier would need to be factored in as well.

 

[Bunshichi]

Actually there are some papers showing usage of high doses of antioxidants decrease inflammation processes, also those wich are mediated by training, wich may suggest the effects of training are less.
However those pathways are not the only ones involved so other pathways may be activated more in exchange.

To my current knowledge research failed to show that training effects are lowered by antioxidant usage. But I would definitely be interested in an in vivo study showing detrimental effects of Antioxidants on training mediated gains.
Be it in enhanced or non-enhanced individuals.

 

[Admin]

It really depends on why you are taking them. If you are actually looking for anti-oxidant effects, some studies show the exact opposite when consumed around exercise. Yet other studies show it could be dose dependent.

Supplementation with vitamin C and N-acetyl-cysteine increases oxidative stress in humans after an acute muscle injury induced by eccentric exercise.
Childs A1, Jacobs C, Kaminski T, Halliwell B, Leeuwenburgh C.
Author information
Abstract
There has been no investigation to determine if the widely used over-the-counter, water-soluble antioxidants vitamin C and N-acetyl-cysteine (NAC) could act as pro-oxidants in humans during inflammatory conditions. We induced an acute-phase inflammatory response by an eccentric arm muscle injury. The inflammation was characterized by edema, swelling, pain, and increases in plasma inflammatory indicators, myeloperoxidase and interleukin-6. Immediately following the injury, subjects consumed a placebo or vitamin C (12.5 mg/kg body weight) and NAC (10 mg/kg body weight) for 7 d. The resulting muscle injury caused increased levels of serum bleomycin-detectable iron and the amount of iron was higher in the vitamin C and NAC group. The concentrations of lactate dehydrogenase (LDH), creatine kinase (CK), and myoglobin were significantly elevated 2, 3, and 4 d postinjury and returned to baseline levels by day 7. In addition, LDH and CK activities were elevated to a greater extent in the vitamin C and NAC group. Levels of markers for oxidative stress (lipid hydroperoxides and 8-iso prostaglandin F2alpha; 8-Iso-PGF2alpha) and antioxidant enzyme activities were also elevated post-injury. The subjects receiving vitamin C and NAC had higher levels of lipid hydroperoxides and 8-Iso-PGF2alpha 2 d after the exercise. This acute human inflammatory model strongly suggests that vitamin C and NAC supplementation immediately post-injury, transiently increases tissue damage and oxidative stress.

 

[hazard12]

It really depends on why you are taking them. If you are actually looking for anti-oxidant effects, some studies show the exact opposite when consumed around exercise. Yet other studies show it could be dose dependent.

Supplementation with vitamin C and N-acetyl-cysteine increases oxidative stress in humans after an acute muscle injury induced by eccentric exercise.
Childs A1, Jacobs C, Kaminski T, Halliwell B, Leeuwenburgh C.
Author information
Abstract
There has been no investigation to determine if the widely used over-the-counter, water-soluble antioxidants vitamin C and N-acetyl-cysteine (NAC) could act as pro-oxidants in humans during inflammatory conditions. We induced an acute-phase inflammatory response by an eccentric arm muscle injury. The inflammation was characterized by edema, swelling, pain, and increases in plasma inflammatory indicators, myeloperoxidase and interleukin-6. Immediately following the injury, subjects consumed a placebo or vitamin C (12.5 mg/kg body weight) and NAC (10 mg/kg body weight) for 7 d. The resulting muscle injury caused increased levels of serum bleomycin-detectable iron and the amount of iron was higher in the vitamin C and NAC group. The concentrations of lactate dehydrogenase (LDH), creatine kinase (CK), and myoglobin were significantly elevated 2, 3, and 4 d postinjury and returned to baseline levels by day 7. In addition, LDH and CK activities were elevated to a greater extent in the vitamin C and NAC group. Levels of markers for oxidative stress (lipid hydroperoxides and 8-iso prostaglandin F2alpha; 8-Iso-PGF2alpha) and antioxidant enzyme activities were also elevated post-injury. The subjects receiving vitamin C and NAC had higher levels of lipid hydroperoxides and 8-Iso-PGF2alpha 2 d after the exercise. This acute human inflammatory model strongly suggests that vitamin C and NAC supplementation immediately post-injury, transiently increases tissue damage and oxidative stress.

I wonder what the mechanism behind this is. Very interesting stuff!

 

[Admin]

I wonder what the mechanism behind this is. Very interesting stuff!

Longer read.


https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1550-2783-2-2-38

 

[diggyroxx]

subbed for reference

 

[saywutrly]

yates84, good to see your name popping up around here again! Sup dude?

Nice to see the original pepperoni back, Toren, haha. Good morning to both of y'all
I second the nice to see yates84. He spent a lot of time in the thread when I did my first cycle.

 

[jmyers]

Bump

 

[saywutrly]

In the planning stages. I was going to take a big long break but the summer is coming...... :]

Nothing crazy like you guys. Probably a simple 12 week Test-E run (375-500mg). Kicked with rad for 3-4 weeks and finished with high-dosed 11-KT. But now i"m thinking...

Test: 1-12 (375-500 EW)
Tbol: 1-6 (40-50mg ED)
11-KT: 7-14 (250mg ED)

Should make for a killer summer recomp while still being mildish on my long flowing locks of hair.

This is sort of like my current cycle setup. You'll love the recomp. I'm running test @ ~600mg/wk, Trest oral 100mg/day, 11-KT 250mg/day the entire time. This cycle is exceeding my expectations. I'm over maintenance calories but my abs are still starting to cut in better and gaining definition elsewhere.

 

[Humbl3]

Great posts !!
Extremely helpful!

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

Can we get an update for the new products out there?