DJbombsquad, Why do you not eat meat when your goal is to build muscle?

AK32408

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somewhatgifted

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Doctors of the future will tell 143 pound guys to run multiple hormone cycles throughout the year, while subscribing to a fast gain world where meat is essential, encourage malnutrition and glycogen retention over actual muscle gains.
Gone are the days of aligning your actions and goals, in the future, through the newest technology doctors will stop prescribing drugs that treat symptoms and begin actually caring about people.
Many will be astonished to know that it was bodybuilders, yes bodybuilders who encouraged ethics and heartfelt efforts from medical professionals.

Sarcasm above..

Dj your are correct in many of the isolated ideas that you propose. The issue is your inability to understand how they fit together and how they affect eachother.

In on sense your taking hormones and avoiding meat for health reasons....
In another you slam meat eaters and eat eggs and quote the bible....
You want to grow larger and lift big weights but dont want to do any of the prerequisites.
 

OzzY SluGGa

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WOW! I just read through the whole 11 pages of this....

.....And something struck me. I now know why everyone seems to hate this DJ guy. I asked someone in a PM once why does everyone pick on this DJ guy? Now, however, it is abundantly clear.:laugh::tool:
 
jakellpet

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WOW! I just read through the whole 11 pages of this....

.....And something struck me. I now know why everyone seems to hate this DJ guy. I asked someone in a PM once why does everyone pick on this DJ guy? Now, however, it is abundantly clear.:laugh::tool:
no-one hating on DJ here bro - just ridiculing the hypocracy.

I pity the fool :bandit:
 

OzzY SluGGa

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no-one hating on DJ here bro - just ridiculing the hypocracy.

I pity the fool :bandit:
Once you quote from the bible....You go straight to my sh1t list. Sorry religious people.....:bandit:
 

lutherblsstt

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Again, a vegetarian diet would provide enough for everyone's needs. With a meat-centered diet, the few eat more than they need, and many millions are malnourished.

(3) Enough was provided on Friday morning so that there was no need to gather manna on the Sabbath. The people were commanded to rest on the seventh day. (see Exodus 16:5, 22-30.)

With a vegetarian diet, people would not need to struggle continually for their means of subsistence. They would be able truly to rest, to have a peaceful Sabbath, knowing that their needs would be met and that there is no reason to struggle for necessities.

The people were not satisfied, however, with the simple diet of manna, which sustained them in the desert. The Children of Israel complained, "Would that we were given flesh to eat." (Num. 11:4) They said they remembered the fish and other good food that they believed they had had in Egypt, but now they had only manna to eat. The Lord was very angry and Moses was displeased. Finally, God provided meat in the form of quail, which were brought by a wind from the sea. While the flesh was in their mouths, before it was chewed, the anger of God was kindled against the people; He struck them with a great plague (Num. 11:4-33).

Note the following key points from a vegetarian point of view:

(1) God wanted the people to be sustained on manna; He was very angry when

they cried for flesh to eat.

(2) God did provide meat, but a plague broke out among the people. Perhaps this incident was designed to teach people that they should not eat meat, and if they did, it would have very negative consequences.

(3) The place where this incident occurred was named "The Graves of Lust,"

to indicate that the lust for flesh led to the many deaths (Num. 11:34). While the manna, their staple food in the desert, kept them in good health for forty years, many deaths occurred when they deviated from this simple diet.

When the Israelites were in the wilderness, animals could only be slaughtered and eaten as part of the sacrificial service in the sanctuary (Leviticus 17:3-5). The eating of "unconsecrated meat", meat from cattle slaughtered for private consumption was not permitted. Every meat meal therefore was an integral part of a sacrificial rite. Maimonides states that

Among many similar statements by the prophets are:

I shall return my people from captivity, and they shall build up the waste cities and inhabit them, and they shall plant vineyards and drink the wine from them, and they shall make gardens and eat the fruit from them, and I shall plant them upon their land. (Amos 9:14-15)

Build ye houses and dwell in them, and plant gardens and eat the fruit of them. (Jeremiah 29:5)

Along with permission to eat meat, many laws and restrictions (the laws

of kashrut) were given. Rabbi Kook believes that the reprimand implied by these regulations is an elaborate apparatus designed to keep alive a sense of reverence for life, with the aim of eventually leading people away from their meat-eating habit. [34]

This idea is echoed by Torah commentator Solomon Efraim Lunchitz, author

of K'lee Yakar:

What was the necessity for the entire procedure of ritual slaughter? For the sake of self-discipline. It is far more appropriate for man not to eat meat; only if he has a strong desire for meat does the Torah permit it, and even this only after the trouble and inconvenience necessary to satisfy his desire. Perhaps because of the bother and annoyance of the whole procedure, he will be restrained from such a strong and uncontrollable desire for meat. [35]

A similar statement was made by a modern rabbi, Pinchas Peli:

Accordingly, the laws of kashrut come to teach us that a Jew's first preference should be a vegetarian meal. If, however, one cannot control a craving for meat, it should be kosher meat, which would serve as a reminder that the animal being eaten is a creature of God, that the death of such a creature cannot be taken lightly, that hunting for sport is forbidden, that we cannot treat any living thing callously, and that we are responsible for what happens to other beings (human or animal) even if we did not personally come into contact with them. [36]

It was stated earlier that Joseph Albo taught that a reason for the original prohibition against eating meat was because, "in the killing of animals there is cruelty, rage, and the accustoming of oneself to the bad habit of shedding innocent blood . . ." Perhaps the laws of kashrut which limit the eating of meat can therefore be viewed as a path leading people back to the original, non-violent, vegetarian diet. For example, the 15th century Sephardic biblical commentator and leader, the Abarbanel, explains why kosher animals are limited to those that "dividest the hoof . . . and chewest the cud . . ." (Leviticus 11:3). In his commentary on this verse, the Abarbanel advanced his theory that animals that chew the cud are not capable of crushing and chewing up bones. Therefore, they feed on plants and do not have the ferocity of wild animals. Their split hooves are without claws so they are peaceful and relatively harmless. Limiting people to such animals means that

they avoid eating animals with a cruel and violent nature.

Rav Kook sees people's craving for meat as a manifestation of negative passions rather than an inherent need. He and Isaac Arama believe that in the days of the Messiah people will again be vegetarians. [37] He states that in the Messianic Epoch, "the effect of knowledge will spread even to animals...and sacrifices in the Temple will consist of vegetation, and it will be pleasing to God as in days of old..." [38] They base this on the prophecy of Isaiah:

And the wolf shall dwell with the lamb, And the leopard shall lie down with the kid; And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little child shall lead them And the cow

and the bear shall feed; Their young ones shall lie down together, And the lion shall eat straw like the ox.... They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain. (Isaiah 11:6-9)

Rabbi Kook believes that the high moral level involved in the vegetarianism of the generations before Noah is a virtue of such great value that it cannot be lost forever. [39] In the future ideal state, just as at the initial period, people and animals will not eat flesh. [40] No one shall hurt nor destroy another living creature. People's lives will not be supported at the expense of the lives of animals.

Other prophetic visions that depict vegetarian diets for people include:

And it shall come to pass in that day that mountains shall drip sweet wine and the hills shall flow with milk. (Joel 4:18)

And the earth shall respond to the corn, the wine, and the oil. (Hosea 2:24)

In his booklet which summarizes many of Rav Kook's teachings, Joe Green, a recent Jewish vegetarian writer, concludes that Jewish religious ethical vegetarians are pioneers of the Messianic era; they are leading lives that make the coming of the Messiah more likely. [41]

Today most Jews eat meat, but the high ideal of God, the initial vegetarian dietary law, still stands supreme in the Torah for Jews and the whole world to see, an ultimate goal toward which all people should strive.

Notes

1. Rashi's commentary on Genesis 1:29. 2. Quoted in Nehama Leibowitz, Studies in Bereshit (Genesis) (Jerusalem: World Zionist Organization (3rd Edition), 1976), p. 77. 3. Sanhedrin 59b. 4. Nachmanides, commentary on Genesis 1:29. 5. Joseph Albo, Sefer ha-Ikkarim, Vol. III., Chapter 15. 6. Rabbi J. H. Hertz, The Pentateuch and Haftorahs (London: Soncino Press, 1958), p. 5; also see Nehama Leibowitz, Studies in Deuteronomy, Jerusalem: World Zionist Organization (3rd Edition), p. 137 7. Maimonides, Moreh Nebuchim II, 47, cited by Nachmanides in his commentary on Genesis 5:4. Also see "Afikim Banegev," in HaPeles (Berlin), 1903-4 and "Tallelei Orot," in Takhkenwni (Berne), 1910, and Nehama Leibowitz, Studies in Deuteronomy, Jerusalem: World Zionist Organization (3rd Edition), pp. 135-142. 8. Leibowitz, Studies in Deuteronomy, p. 138. 9. From Rav Kook's Tallelei Orot (Dewdrops of Light), cited by Leibowitz, Studies in Deuteronomy, p. 138. 10. Rabbi Samuel H. Dresner, The Jewish Dietary Laws, Their Meaning for Our Time (New York: Burning Bush Press,1959), pp. 21-25; Cassuto, commentary on Genesis 1:27. 11. Leibowitz, Studies in Bereshit, p. 77. 12. Joseph Albo, Sefer ha-Ikkarim, Vol. III., Chapter 15. 13. Rabbi Isaak Hebenstreit, Graves of Lust (Hebrew), (Rzeszow, Poland, 1929), p. 6. 14. Samson Raphael Hirsch's commentary on Genesis 9:2. 15. Dresner, The Jewish Dietary Laws, p. 29. 16. Quoted by Leibowitz, Studies in Bereshit, p. 77. 17. Rashi, based on Midrash Rabbah; also Baba Kamma 91b. 18. This speculation is considered by Pick,"The Source of Our Inspiration," p. 3. 19. See Rabbi Elijah J. Schochet, Animal Life in Jewish Tradition (New York: K'tav), 1984, p. 290; also see S. Clayman, "Vegetarianism, The Ideal of the Bible," The Jewish Vegetarian (Summer, 1967): 136- 137, and Hebenstreit, Kivrot Hata'avah, p. 7. 20. Hertz, Pentateuch and Haftorahs, p. 276. 21. Talmudic sage Ben Zoma taught as follows: "Who is rich? The person who rejoices in his or her portion" (Pirke Avot 4:1). 22. Reverend A. Cohen, The Teaching of Maimonides (New York: Bloch Publishing Co., 1927), p. 180. 23. See Leibowitz, Studies in Deuteronomy, p. 135. 24. Schochet, Animal Life, p. 300. 25. Rabbi J. David Bleich, "Vegetarianism and Judaism", Tradition, Vol. 2 3, No. 1, (Summer, 1987), p. 86. 26.Ibid., p. 87. 27. Leibowitz, Studies in Deuteronomy, p. 136. 28. Ibid. 29. Hebenstreit, Kivrot Hata'avah, p. 9. 30. Chulin 84a. 31. Pesachim 49b. 32. See the discussion in Joe Green, "Chalutzim of the Messiah-The Religious Vegetarian Concept as Expounded by Rabbi Kook", p. 2. 33. Ibid., pp. 2-3. 34. Rabbi Abraham Isaac Kook, "Fragments of Light," in Abraham Isaac Kook, ed. and trans. Ben Zion Bokser (New York: Paulist Press,1978), pp. 316-21 35. Quoted in Abraham Chill, The Commandments and Their Rationale, (New York, 1974), p. 400. 36. Rabbi Pinchas Peli, Torah Today (Washington,D.C.: B'nai B'rith Books, 1987), p. 118. 37. Rabbi Alfred Cohen, "Vegetarianism from a Jewish Perspective," Journal of Halacha and Contemporary Society, Vol. 1, No. II, (Fall, 1981) p. 45. 38. Olat Rayah, Vol. 1, p. 292. Cited by Cohen, "Vegetarianism...... p. 45. 39. Rabbi Abraham Isaac Kook, A Vision of Vegetarianism and Peace. 40. Hertz, Pentateuch and Haftorahs, p. 5. 41. Green, "Chalutzim of the Messiah," 3 p. 1.
I have a question,can vegetarians eat animal crackers?


No really,check this out:

Biblical Nutrition: The Bible Supports Foods from Both Plant & Animal Kingdoms
http://www.chetday.com/biblicalnutrition3.htm
 
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jakellpet

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I have a question,can vegetarians eat animal crackers?


No really,check this out:

Biblical Nutrition: The Bible Supports Foods from Both Plant & Animal Kingdoms
http://www.chetday.com/biblicalnutrition3.htm
Nice work Luther - here's the content:

After reading your Health Tip: Biblical Nutrition (Part 3), it amazes me that you continue to advocate so strongly a 100% pure vegan, raw diet by putting forth rather weak arguments while at the same time ignoring Biblical truths. Your statement that biblical nutrition begins and ends with Genesis 1:29 is simply without basis and is a gross distortion of Biblical truth. So here's my rebuttal:

Man possesses four canine teeth out of a total of thirty-two teeth. If man were to be a pure vegetarian, God would not have placed any canine teeth in us. Four out of thirty-two is 12.5%. Hence, it may be argued that the inclusion of 10%-15% meat products to our diet is supported by our God-given physiology.


Milk, cheese, butter, yogurt, eggs and fish (especially cooked) does not require sharp, canine teeth for mastication.


Although the strength of hydrochloric acid in man's stomach is much weaker than carnivorous animals, it nevertheless contains adequate amounts of hydrochloric acid to assist in the digestion of modest amounts of animal proteins. Herbivores like cows, sheep and goats do not have hydrochloric acid in their stomachs.


You like to use comparisons with animals and cite human instincts as arguments. Did you know that these same carnivorous animals started out as pure vegetarians before the Fall and will end up as pure vegetarians again during the Millennium? Young carnivorous animals have to learn how to hunt for prey from their parents. Likewise, for thousands of years, fathers have taught their children how to catch wild animals, fish, birds, etc.


If man eats a well-balanced meal with lots of high-fibre vegetables, legumes, seeds, grains and fruits, it is very unlikely that the meat he consumes with that meal would be stuck in the intestines and putrefy. The plant foods would also help to neutralize the acidity of animal foods.


There are carnivorous animals that feed on the flesh of all kinds of dead animals, whether these were herbivores or carnivores. These are the scavengers, e.g. hyenas, wild pigs, vultures, etc.


You quote experiments that were done 80 years ago. I wonder if the same kind of experiments have been repeated today. For instance, Pottenger's experiments with the cats have been proven to be flawed (see http://www.beyondveg.com website).
Reverend, the problem with the SAD and most modern diets is the over-consumption of meat, sugar, refined flour, etc, and under-consumption of fresh vegetables and fruits, whole grain products, etc. People who eat a balanced diet often do not suffer from health problems.

Consider the following Biblical evidences:

1. Many of the heroes of faith, the Godly men of the Bible, were shepherds and herdsmen, e.g. Abel, Job, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Jacob's twelve sons, David, etc, and had very many livestock. Jacob's entire household were in the profession of animal husbandry. That is why they settled in Goshen for the Egyptians did not like keepers of animals. The chosen people of God must have eaten lots of dairy products and meat!

2. God said He would give the covenant people, Israel, the promised land of Canaan, a land flowing with milk and honey. If milk is so bad, why would God have used it as an illustration of the abundance and blessedness of the promised land?

3. Three of Jesus' closest disciples were fishermen by profession. They must have eaten lots of fish!

4. Read Isaiah 55:1-2:

"Ho! Everyone who thirsts,
Come to the waters;
And you who have no money,
Come, buy and eat.
Yes, come, buy wine and milk
Without money and without price.
Why do you spend money for what is not bread,
And your wages for what does not satisfy?
Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good,
And let your soul delight itself in abundance.

According to the Holy Spirit, milk is good, it is bread for food and it satisfies. For this reason, it is used as a biblical illustration for the importance of feeding on God's instruction. Are you feeding on the whole counsel of God's Word, from Genesis to Revelation? Milk, per se, is not bad for health, it is what modern man has done to the milk.

5. Read Zechariah 14:16-21:

And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. In that day "HOLINESS TO THE LORD" shall be engraved on the bells of the horses. The pots in the Lord’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar. Yes, every pot in Jerusalem and Judah shall be holiness to the Lord of hosts. Everyone who sacrifices shall come and take them and cook in them. In that day there shall no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.

The above passage tells us that during the Millennium, all nations have to send envoys up to Jerusalem to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. Do you know how many animals (oxen, rams, sheep, etc) are slaughtered for sacrifices during this Feast? You can check out the book of Leviticus and Numbers for the details. That is beside the animals that are freely offered by the worshippers. What does the Scripture say? Refusal to participate in the Feast is punishable by plagues and drought. The meat of the sacrifices will be cooked in pots and thrown away, because it is unhealthy to eat meat? Of course not, the meat will be eaten by all who participate in the Feast.

Jesus said, "Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." Have you carefully considered the rest of the counsel of God?
 
Iron Lungz

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Nice work, Luther and Jake!
I am hungry... going to go eat a steak, smothered with chicken. Mmmmmm...
 
SilentBob187

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AK32408

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I'm eating beef jerky.
 
SilentBob187

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Maybe I should be calling you 'Deep Space 9' SB :bandit:
They should have never let someone like me have access to something as convenient as Google.
 

BoyFromAus

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thinking about it though, I want to change my diet to where i just eat carnivores.

That way, it's perfectly fair... "They started it by eating other animals, I finished it by eating them".

besides, roasted crocodile tastes yummmmm.
 
jakellpet

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thinking about it though, I want to change my diet to where i just eat carnivores.

That way, it's perfectly fair... "They started it by eating other animals, I finished it by eating them".

besides, roasted crocodile tastes yummmmm.
do an AM search on "Omen" - he was doing just that: eating meat and fat :bandit:
 
TheLastRonin

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“One man has faith to eat everything, but the man who is weak eats vegetables."—Rom. 14:2
:laugh:
 
brk_nemesis

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Ah, I needed a good laugh, great thread. My contribution:

 
TheLastRonin

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Some thoughts on the OT part of things, since most Jews I know do not hold the NT in high regard.

First of all, it shows that human life is sacred and that whoever deliberately takes the life of another person must forfeit his own life. At the very time that God, for the first time, gave this law to mankind, as represented by Noah and his family of flood survivors, God authorized meat to be eaten. (Gen. 9:3-5) In other words, in the same breath, as it were, that he strictly forbade the taking of human life and pronounced the penalty therefor of capital punishment, God authorized the killing of animals for food.

This distinction between man and animals we find throughout the Scriptures. In fact, from earliest times animals were offered as sacrifices with God’s approval. (Gen. 4:2-5; 8:20, 21) Much slaughtering of animals was involved in the many kinds of sacrifices required under the law of Moses. And did not God require that the Israelites eat meat, lamb or kid, at least once each year at the Passover celebration, not to say anything of their frequent eating of meat when making communion sacrifices? In particular were the priests meat eaters, as they partook of each one’s communion sacrifice. To carry this a step farther, God himself is represented as sharing symbolically in eating flesh in that the portion that was burned on the altar was represented as being his share.—Ex. 12:3-9; 34:25; Lev. 7:11-15.


If God eats meat (even symbolically), using him as an excuse not to, is pretty unreasonable using the scriptures as a basis.:laugh:
 
TheLastRonin

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And my avi told me I have to hunt three times as much this year beacuse of this thread....sigh...what can I do but obey?:laugh:
 

BoyFromAus

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look, there's only one solution to all this ethical and religious stuff.
Eat carnivorous animals.

The meat is very lean and high in protein.
The meat is very high in other nutrients.
Carnivores brutally kill and eat other animals, so they deserve to be eaten.

I've been trying to get into eating Crocodiles, sharks, goannas and carnivorous chickens. Pretty soon i'll be eating dingos, wild cats and other hunters.
 

OzzY SluGGa

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God Dayuum, this thread is funny! Them pics you boys gound crack me up:laugh:

But where is the retard himself to dispute our joint meat loving?( no homo):bandit:
 
Cellardude

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God Dayuum, this thread is funny! Them pics you boys gound crack me up:laugh:

But where is the retard himself to dispute our joint meat loving?( no homo):bandit:
he wised up and stopped responding.

It only makes him look worse when he speaks. So to be truly intelligent, he says nothing at all :laugh:
 
pistonpump

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he wised up and stopped responding.

It only makes him look worse when he speaks. So to be truly intelligent, he says nothing at all :laugh:
impossible, he must have unsubbed. there is no way he has that level of intelligence, come on man as much as id like to give someone the benefiet of doubt, with this one im not so sure the IQ level is even double digits
 

OzzY SluGGa

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impossible, he must have unsubbed. there is no way he has that level of intelligence, come on man as much as id like to give someone the benefiet of doubt, with this one im not so sure the IQ level is even double digits
:laugh::laugh:
 
SilentBob187

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do an AM search on "Omen" - he was doing just that: eating meat and fat :bandit:
I really do miss Omen's contributions, especially to a thread like this one.

Oh yeah, and a little contribution:

Brunettes in bacon...delicious.
 
MuscleBound1337

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God told me to eat meat every single day of my life.
 
AK32408

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I really do miss Omen's contributions, especially to a thread like this one.

Oh yeah, and a little contribution:

Brunettes in bacon...delicious.
BUMP

:D
 
jakellpet

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I really do miss Omen's contributions, especially to a thread like this one.

Oh yeah, and a little contribution:

Brunettes in bacon...delicious.
Godamit! Nothing would whet my appetite more than that! Hard Reppin' SB! :bandit:
 
raginfcktard

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where the **** was i during all of this? this thread is awesome!
 
punthra

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Let's continue the laughter

this thread is absolutely awesome, it's almost as funny as the log. the jokes just don't stop!:laugh::laugh:
 

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